PDA

View Full Version : Mind if I ask for Paladin ideas/inspiration? Feeling a bit lost with sub classes



Odessa333
2022-01-09, 11:35 PM
Hello all.

I'll try to keep this brief. I'm starting a new game where everyone is a human and the party is level 3. Rest of the party looks to be a Twilight Cleric, a soul knife Rogue, a bear totem Barbarian, possibly an artificer, and my Paladin. I'm supposed to be playing a leader/noble type with leads itself to a lot of possibilities with this class, but while the base Paladin is strong, the sub classes don't impress much. Yet I see and hear a lot of how 'x' oath is the best, and I'm not seeing it. I've been reading guides for so long it's starting to blur together, and could use a break, and some fresh input. I'm taking a break for now, and coming back to it later with (hopefully) some new thoughts from here.

Thank you for your time.

JNAProductions
2022-01-09, 11:43 PM
I like Ancients. Solid aura and the flavor of "Laugh and be merry" fits my PCs well.

Angelalex242
2022-01-09, 11:47 PM
Most Paladins are great.

Use Devotion if you've got allies with terrible will saves, or you're in Ravenloft.
Use Ancients if (like me) you wanna play defense and tank. This is the defense oath, so build accordingly. This oath makes all mages cry tears of sadness and woe.
Use Vengeance if you just want things to die. Worst defense of the oaths, but greater mobility and not afraid to use it.

5eNeedsDarksun
2022-01-10, 01:04 AM
I'll preface this by saying I'm not sure what I'm going to say will help much...

Yes, the base class is strong. We've had one in every campaign but 1 and the absence of the 6th level aura was noticeable then. All the paladins were different subclasses and had varied fighting styles and progression of ASIs (Chr or Attack stat) vs. feats.

I personally like Ancients basically for the 7th level aura, but opinions vary. One thing that might change things is what sort of campaign you would be playing in with regard to whether the Channel Divinity could effect common foes. Beyond that I think it really is about role playing and not getting tied up in optimizing because they're all good.

Ganryu
2022-01-10, 01:49 AM
I have to ask, have people actually had the ancients aura go off?

Anyways, honestly, the question is how you want to play paladin, there are a few different ways, and it affects your playstyle more than the subclass.

Want to be a tank where nothing dies? Max out charisma first. It changes your playstyle completely, you can actually protect things much better this way. Ancients, Redemption, Watchers are all good.You can user your spell casting, and I'd recommend interception fighting style.

Ancients: Screw spellcasters
Redemption: Nobodies dying here today, except me. {Actually Con first on this one, THEN charisma, because you really shred through your hit points quite fast. Attack stat is actually tertiary }
Watchers: Everyone gets alert!


Alternatively, you can play massive control with crown or conquest, still max out charisma.
Crown: Come fight me as an honorable man.
Conquest: Run from me really fast.

Want things to die? Max out strength/dex first, your spellcasting is now useless, you have a new toy called 'smite'. Vengeance, Devotion, Glory and Oathbreaker. Careful that oathbreaker can screw over your party, but is fun.

Vengeance: This one thing will die.
Devotion: I can't miss any of my hits
Glory: I'm a one man army
Oathbringer: I'm an edgey boy who's a bit stronger.

As far as leadernoble type, I'd say Crown's pretty good for that.

ProsecutorGodot
2022-01-10, 01:57 AM
As far as leadernoble type, I'd say Crown's pretty good for that.

I like Redemption a lot for that, especially if it goes with the "my family is pretty terrible and I'm trying to fix that" trope.

They fill pretty similar roles, I'd say Redemption comes out a little stronger mechanically except that Crown getting Spirit Guardians at level 9 is a significant thing for a Paladin, it's one of the few Paladin subclasses that has any ability to contribute in the area control department.

Ganryu
2022-01-10, 02:06 AM
I like Redemption a lot for that, especially if it goes with the "my family is pretty terrible and I'm trying to fix that" trope.

They fill pretty similar roles, I'd say Redemption comes out a little stronger mechanically except that Crown getting Spirit Guardians at level 9 is a significant thing for a Paladin, it's one of the few Paladin subclasses that has any ability to contribute in the area control department.

Honestly, I think Crowns a bit stronger, but I looooove the flavor of Redemption so much. Contributes to good scenes where you block a hit that would have been fatal for someone else. Especially with a good GM.

---------

Only problem I can think of for either of these is he's got a twilight cleric, so... nobody is ever dying. Man... I HATE twilight cleric with a passion, it's so OP.

Honestly, with that and a bear totem barbarian, my suggestion is go nuts on an attacking subclasses. Shred things, be the DPS. Vengeance is best mechanically, but may not be the theme you like. They're oaths aren't actually about avenging anythign, more of "We will stop evil through ANY means necessary, get the baseball bat and car battery, the fiends not talking." Granted, I normally see the oaths as fluff, and work with my DM.

Oathbreaker can be fun of 'you sold your oath out, but you refuse to give up'. Great for a "I f'd up' backstory.

Devotion is boring side of shredding, but honestly, I think their channel divinity is a little bit slept on:


Sacred Weapon. As an action, you can imbue one weapon that you are holding with positive energy, using your Channel Divinity. For 1 minute, you add your Charisma modifier to attack rolls made with that weapon (with a minimum bonus of +1). The weapon also emits bright light in a 20-foot radius and dim light 20 feet beyond that. If the weapon is not already magical, it becomes magical for the duration.

You can end this effect on your turn as part of any other action. If you are no longer holding or carrying this weapon, or if you fall unconscious, this effect ends.


That accuracy boost is a little bit insane, negates Great Weapon Mastery completely by the end

Sherlockpwns
2022-01-10, 02:24 AM
All paladin subs are decent enough so the bigger question to answer is “what’s your schtick” and then select the subclass that feels best for it.

So far what we know is you are a noble and leader. Seems like a great start to pick Inspiring Leader as your human feat (or at 4 if you are not allowed variant human).

That means, to me, you want to focus on cha a bit more than normal. Cha focused paladin means more healing and better saves.

Given the mix of twilight and a barbarian (and maybe the artificer too) you’ll likely have a lot of people near you. Also the twilight cleric mixed with inspiring leader is like temp HP heaven. You’ll start the day with the whole party having a ton of temp HP and as soon as those start to fall the cleric will bring them right back. Since everyone will want to cluster around the cleric, it’s the perfect way to ensure as many players are affected by your save aura.

It also is an interesting opportunity to take the less common protection style, which between the temp HP and damage reduction is going to make this an incredibly hard nut to crack in combat.

Aoe spells and abilities will be your bane, so that does actually make Ancients an interesting choice, but most things you fight don’t cast spells. If not for the twilight cleric I’d say Glory, but I think glory would be actual overkill on temp HP.

I’d consider Devotion since it’s channel is based on Cha and immunity to charm for all you humans is great. or if you don’t want to go with protection style, Redemption is straight up excellent and has one of the few non combat channel divinity that really meshes well. This frees up the style for blind fighting or something or more AC etc.

So in short: Cha focused paladin of either ancients, devotion, or redemption depending on what you want to RP. Pick up leader feat and focus on keeping your party alive. You really can’t go wrong here.

PoeticallyPsyco
2022-01-10, 02:25 AM
Nobody's mentioned Conquest yet, which have kind of the opposite approach to tanking, focusing on debuffing and crowd-controlling your foes, especially through the Frightened condition. Charisma is your main stat for this one, so enemies are cowering before you after failing their saves.

Pex
2022-01-10, 02:49 AM
The Paladin CH bonus to everyone's saving throw is a big deal. People like to say don't walk in Fireball formation, at some point making the saving throw is more important than whatever damage is taken from an area of effect attack. That's when you walk in Hug The Paladin formation, Paladin in the middle everyone else in a circle within 10 ft. Add in Bless from yourself or the cleric and that's major protection.

Devotion is good for 7th level immunity to Charm. There many charm attacks that are not Charm Person in form. You and everyone in 10 ft are protected from them. These attacks say the victim is charmed. If the campaign has lots of fiends Devotion can Turn them. That's useful to get rid of pesky imps and quasits that DMs likes to use. Other fiends as well, sure, but as the levels progress a group of imps can be annoying. Not with Devotion Paladin around.

Ancients is good for 7th level half damage from spells. Ancients can also create vines for some crowd control.

I don't care for Vengeance, but it has its fans. Many like it for the bonus spells. Hunter's Mark alone is praised for extra damage when conserving spell slots, i.e. not smiting at the moment. Vengeance can give himself advantage on all attacks against one enemy for a minute. That is useful if you also use great weapon master for lots of damage. You can Bless yourself too to make the -5 almost insignificant.

Nidgit
2022-01-10, 03:59 AM
Go with whatever fits your flavor best. Your party is going to be extremely resilient no matter what so I don't think something defensive like Crown or Ancients is really necessary. Leaning more offensive (Vengeance) or spellcastery (Redemption or Watchers) is probably your best bet, balance-wise. The Watchers CD that grants everyone advantage on mental saving throws would be fantastic support for your barbarian in particular.

But seriously, go with whatever fits your RP best. As you said, the paladin chassis is extremely strong; subclasses might add a wrinkle or two to your play style but they're mostly there to enhance your character's flavor. You can't really go wrong.

Maan
2022-01-10, 05:23 AM
You already got good advice here, so I'll just add something on my own.

For the gallant knight trope I guess you could go with Crown, Devotion or Redemption. I think these fit the trope best, but it depends on what you have in mind for you character concept.
Also, vows aren't so strict and binding: there's space to better fit them on you character, so when in doubt talk about it with your DM.

If you want go on the offense (and with your party, you definitely can: they aren't going to be in constant need of your help), you could consider Mounted Combatant as a Feat.
It works really well on a Paladin and, on top of being a deliciously flavourful Feat for a knight, it solves much of the mobility issues the class usually has.
If you are interested, take a look at the Ride of the Valkyries Paladin (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=23794664&postcount=1) build by LudicSavant: it's for Vengeance Paladins specifically, but it kinda works with any Paladin, really.

Sorinth
2022-01-10, 05:49 AM
Are you looking for inspiration in terms of character or in terms of build/mechanics?

When struggling with character ideas I find a good option is to link your character to another player in some way, siblings, best friends, family retainer, etc... Working with another player can often jumpstart the creative juices.

So for example let's say the Soulknife player is a younger sibling and there was some sort of far realms event. The encounter changed your sibling and gave them Soulknife powers. You had a smaller brush with the event and instead got the Telekinetic/Telepathic feat. You maybe feel guilty in some way and swore an oath to protect against those types of events and so are now an oath of watchers.

MoiMagnus
2022-01-10, 09:19 AM
Hello all.

I'll try to keep this brief. I'm starting a new game where everyone is a human and the party is level 3. Rest of the party looks to be a Twilight Cleric, a soul knife Rogue, a bear totem Barbarian, possibly an artificer, and my Paladin. I'm supposed to be playing a leader/noble type with leads itself to a lot of possibilities with this class, but while the base Paladin is strong, the sub classes don't impress much. Yet I see and hear a lot of how 'x' oath is the best, and I'm not seeing it. I've been reading guides for so long it's starting to blur together, and could use a break, and some fresh input. I'm taking a break for now, and coming back to it later with (hopefully) some new thoughts from here.

Thank you for your time.

Since Paladin works well whatever the subclass you take, you can focus on RP:

Is there a traumatising event in your character's past? Look at Redemption or Vengeance for that.
Is it fundamentally linked to your vision of nobility? Go Conquest for Lawful Evil noble, and Glory for a less evil version of that, Crown for standard nobility, Ancient for "we're an old dynasty with old traditions", Devotion for the more "white knight" vision of nobility.
What's your character personality traits? Or since you probably don't know the answer to that, what do you not want to have as character traits? Then check the content of the Oath to eliminate those you don't want to RP.
Etc

T.G. Oskar
2022-01-10, 09:44 AM
I like Redemption a lot for that, especially if it goes with the "my family is pretty terrible and I'm trying to fix that" trope.

They fill pretty similar roles, I'd say Redemption comes out a little stronger mechanically except that Crown getting Spirit Guardians at level 9 is a significant thing for a Paladin, it's one of the few Paladin subclasses that has any ability to contribute in the area control department.

Also, Guardian of Faith. It's not as impressive given that most DMs don't lend to allow players to create natural chokepoints where setting a Large spectral construct that deals solid damage to everything that crosses through becomes worthwhile, but it's concentration-free and a 4th-level spell (of which the Paladin has very few, of which most are buffs - then again, it has Death Ward on it) makes it also contribute.

Then there's the Channel Divinity options which are both great. Of course, Redemption has also a pair of amazing CD options, so it's a throw between an AoE Taunt/AoE emergency healing or being effectively the best face in the entire world for 10 minutes (IIRC) or making a single enemy regret hitting an ally with a crit for 100+ damage because you're doing the same against them. It's only on the subsequent features where things go better for the Redemption Paladin as its damage redirection ability becomes an aura rather than a cover effect, the Survivor-esque feature is slightly better than being good at certain saves, and the capstone ability is always active (but deactivates if you hit someone with anything other than your retributive damage) vs. a capstone that lasts for 1 hour but ends up being kinda middling.

Crown Paladins do great as a more mundane (if you can call them that) kind of knightly character, a more traditional approach to the concept than Devotion who's touted as the traditional Paladin. (As in, Devotion is the archetypal holy warrior, Crown is the knight owing service to the feudal lord.) Aura of Vitality and Turn the Tide are superb as support options, and you get the crowd control thing set. That said, you probably have a lot of survivability there - as mentioned, Twilight Clerics are insanely good at keeping everyone alive, and if you pair that with, say, an Artillerist Artificer, there's so much THP thrown around that it's not even funny. Alternatively, you'll have a lot of tanky people between the Bear Totem Barbarian (resilient to everything except psychic), Twilight Cleric (THP + heavy armor, then you add the cover effect) and an Armorer Artificer (particularly if going for the Guardian armor modification), so it'll be better to gear for combat rather than for protection. I agree with Sherlockpwns in that Devotion is pretty solid as a leader-type that doesn't focus too much on tanking, particularly helping on keeping the party relatively free from charms. (Plus, Sacred Weapon is the perfect combination for GWM - most people stand for Vengeance's Vow of Enmity, but you have other ways to pursue advantage, and you can get Hunter's Mark or Hex via the Fey Initiate feat from Tasha's, meaning you can do solid amounts of damage either way.) Redemption can help a lot with the Soulknife's survivability AND lets you be the party face (maybe in tandem with the Soulknife if it takes any social skill), and it has another set of solid crowd control and buff spells (it has Sleep at first, then Hypnotic Pattern and both Hold spells, not to mention Counterspell and Stoneskin), plus it makes you the ultimate survivalist (between the perma-reduction at 20 against creatures, the Survivor effect and the tons of THP flying around).

I'm not too much of a fan of Ancients because it's always touted as the greatest due to the Aura of Warding, but as a package I find it kinda lacking - the capstone is solid because of the bonus action casting and regeneration effects (and the disadvantage on saves against your spells is cute too), but the rest of the package doesn't really surprise me. I mean...sure, you get Misty Step which is great, but the rest of the spells aren't amazing, and Nature's Wrath is pathetic considering that you get Ensnaring Strike at the same point, which is better in everything save for the dual save. (Nature's Wrath allows Str or Dex save; Ensnaring Strike only allows a Str save but triggers on a successful weapon attack, including ranged attacks for better reach, and deals damage over time until it breaks out.) It's sort of the Crown Paladin situation all over again - great things, but the rest isn't as hot.

I'd also pine for Conquest because it helps with crowd control and eventually on damage (Guided Strike on an attack you can't miss, probably with GWM, does wonders), while giving a different leader vibe (think, say, Alexander the Great or Julius Caesar, but running off a bloodthirsty reputation). You could work it as a character who's intimidating at first, feared by its enemies but strangely admired by its allies because, deep down there's a soft heart. For anyone who played Final Fantasy Tactics, think of Mesdoram Elmdore - the Silver Knight to his allies, the Silver Ogre to his enemies.

da newt
2022-01-10, 09:45 AM
Just to pile on, I agree 100% with this: But seriously, go with whatever fits your RP best. As you said, the paladin chassis is extremely strong; subclasses might add a wrinkle or two to your play style but they're mostly there to enhance your character's flavor. You really can't go wrong.

With that said, I prefer to play PCs that aren't the paladin trope so I'm drawn to Vengeance, Watchers, Oath-breaker, Conquest.

My one bit of advice - I really like to grab PAM or another way to add extra attacks, it allows for more opportunities to drop a smite on someone.

Willie the Duck
2022-01-10, 09:57 AM
All paladin subs are decent enough so the bigger question to answer is “what’s your schtick” and then select the subclass that feels best for it.
Have to agree with this. A paladin who picks up Inspiring Leader instead of Polearm Master or War Caster is going to change things a lot more than picking Ancients over Glory or the like (outside of flavor, and for the OP, I agree with Maan that Crown, Devotion or Redemption are the best fits).


I don't care for Vengeance, but it has its fans. Many like it for the bonus spells. Hunter's Mark alone is praised for extra damage when conserving spell slots, i.e. not smiting at the moment. Vengeance can give himself advantage on all attacks against one enemy for a minute. That is useful if you also use great weapon master for lots of damage. You can Bless yourself too to make the -5 almost insignificant.

Since Divine Favor already exists and does avg. 1 less per attack (plus you only need to use your bonus action to cast, not to change targets), I don't consider HM alone to be that great. However, Misty Step (and later Dimension Door) changes things greatly. Enough that, for non-vengeance paladins, I usually end up at some point grabbing Fey Touched for MS (and then grab Hunter's Mark as the L1 if Gift of Alacrity isn't available). Getting to the fray (or back to the fray, if the enemy has battlefield control) is just that important.

Ganryu
2022-01-10, 10:01 AM
Instead of spending a feat for PAM, just picking up a double bladed scimitar is an option if allowed and Dm is generous

Pildion
2022-01-10, 10:33 AM
I'm supposed to be playing a leader/noble type with leads itself to a lot of possibilities with this class, but while the base Paladin is strong, the sub classes don't impress much. Thank you for your time.

Well, based on what you said, your character is suppose to be a leader, so thematically I would said Crown if your leaning more noble and Devotion if your leaning more religious/good person leader. That said, Vengeance is normally looked at as the best subclass, followed by Ancients.

f5anor
2022-01-13, 12:01 PM
I've been reading guides for so long it's starting to blur together, and could use a break, and some fresh input. I'm taking a break for now, and coming back to it later with (hopefully) some new thoughts from here.

It seems to me that you don't want to think about mechanics, you need to get inspired by cool role-playing potential.

On this note let me interest you in...

A magnificent lady, glorious on the battlefield, accustomed to be respected, no, feared by friends and foes alike.

Her gleaming dragon scales, revealing the power of her ancient forebears, flare out when she utters her terrifying draconic roar.

With legendary battle prowess she strikes with supernatural accuracy raining down divine smites on her enemies.

Her magnetic charisma and strong demeanor make her exude a terrifying presence that draws all enemies attention. She constantly emanates a menacing aura that drives enemies to their knees. All but the strongest and most experienced foes are compelled to tremble and despair at her sight on the battlefield, incapable of action, waiting for the inevitable end.


This is of course a Dragonborn Paladin of the Oath of Conquest!

benchcoat
2022-01-13, 07:40 PM
I'm a big fan of the Devotion Oath for a paladin, but that's largely because I like the paladin as a self-styled champion of a particular god approach. Partially, it helps me craft the PC beliefs and actions, as I use real world gods and make inferences based off of the myths about the god/goddess. It helps a lot that my DM ignores the Devotion flavor text in favor of my approach (why would a paladin of Loki feel a need for total honesty?).

Devotion ends up being great for a flexible melee + support role -- the save bonus aura can be very helpful for the other martials in the group (probably not as good as some of the other auras, but I still find it really helpful for the team).

Steven K
2022-02-15, 10:19 AM
Are you looking for inspiration in terms of character or in terms of build/mechanics?

When struggling with character ideas I find a good option is to link your character to another player in some way, siblings, best friends, family retainer, etc... Working with another player can often jumpstart the creative juices.

So for example let's say the Soulknife player is a younger sibling and there was some sort of far realms event. The encounter changed your sibling and gave them Soulknife powers. You had a smaller brush with the event and instead got the Telekinetic/Telepathic feat. You maybe feel guilty in some way and swore an oath to protect against those types of events and so are now an oath of watchers.

That sounds a lot like Edward and Alphonse Elric's backstory.

Psyren
2022-02-15, 11:02 AM
while the base Paladin is strong, the sub classes don't impress much. Yet I see and hear a lot of how 'x' oath is the best, and I'm not seeing it. I've been reading guides for so long it's starting to blur together, and could use a break, and some fresh input. I'm taking a break for now, and coming back to it later with (hopefully) some new thoughts from here.

Thank you for your time.

You can honestly pick whichever one has the most appealing Oath for you to RP. Paladin is the class with the least power variance among its subclasses; you can fit the vast majority of them into the same "tier." There are no big swings like Champion vs. Echo Knight, Phantom vs. Inquisitive, nor even like Chronurgist vs. Transmuter.

Burley
2022-02-15, 11:24 AM
I have a Paladin of Devotion that's a coin operated Warforged. Inspired by Asimov's Laws of Robotics, The Unit is unable/unwilling to lie, cheat or steal; it instinctively/is programmed to protect the weak from the strong; it will seek equitable solutions; it obeys the orders of whomever inserts coins, though it may reject payment if it doesn't want to serve (a bad guy) or, in the event its will is subverted, it will not use its Paladin abilities for evil.


But, if you want something else, here's something else: Maybe your character was a noble who acted most ignobly and seeks the Oath of Redemption. Perhaps they have followed the example of mentor who looked down on and used others selfishly, reveling in the glory of battle and the reward of wealth and "companionship." They might, on some occasion, have witnessed their mentor cross a line and, in questioning where the line even is, wonders whose right it is to draw a line in the first place and, finally, which side of the line do they want to stand on. They seek to redeem themselves in their own eyes, not those of their mentor's and, fueled by the divinity of moral exploration, they find themselves in tow of a group who does not claim morality as their own.

Greywander
2022-02-15, 11:24 AM
I once had a concept for a former BBEG who was defeated and lost most of his power as a result. He would have been a Conquest paladin, probably straight paladin, though a dip into Undead warlock would have also been great. For mechanical reasons, I would probably make him a Fizban dragonborn and take the Dragon Fear feat.

Conquest paladins are basically mass ranged grapplers, using fear effects to lock an enemy down. Dragon Fear is an AoE, so you can lock down a lot of people at once. The Undead warlock's Form of Dread let's you fear an enemy as a BA after hitting it with a weapon. The Fear spell is an AoE cone. Wrathful Smite is a single-target fear that notably uses an ability check after failing the initial saving throw, and due to the fear, the target will have disadvantage on ability checks, making Wrathful Smite very strong single-target fear effect.

When an enemy is immune to fear, well, you're still a paladin. You can just smite them to death. If you do go with dragonborn, you'll have your breath weapon as well, which can help for clearing out hordes of enemies (something paladins are traditionally weak at). All in all, it should be a very solid build.

I also had a concept for a super hero character who would probably have been a Redemption paladin (mostly for the regeneration), but I couldn't get the concept to really work without introducing homebrew.

Another concept I had was that of a tank, which was a gnome Artillerist artificer riding a warforged paladin (Redemption for the regen, otherwise any other subclass works). It's a fun idea, but ideally you'd want the paladin to take a reversed version of Mounted Combatant to redirect damage from the artificer to the paladin.

Oh, speaking of artificers, since you have one in your party, they could supply you with Gauntlets of Ogre Power or a Belt of Giant's Strength, allowing you to keep your STR at 15 or 16 and focus entirely on CHA, CON, and feats. This opens up a few options in terms of feats and such, allowing for a wider variety of builds.

Bobthewizard
2022-02-15, 11:51 AM
Hello all.

I'll try to keep this brief. I'm starting a new game where everyone is a human and the party is level 3. Rest of the party looks to be a Twilight Cleric, a soul knife Rogue, a bear totem Barbarian, possibly an artificer, and my Paladin. I'm supposed to be playing a leader/noble type with leads itself to a lot of possibilities with this class, but while the base Paladin is strong, the sub classes don't impress much. Yet I see and hear a lot of how 'x' oath is the best, and I'm not seeing it. I've been reading guides for so long it's starting to blur together, and could use a break, and some fresh input. I'm taking a break for now, and coming back to it later with (hopefully) some new thoughts from here.

Thank you for your time.

I wouldn't worry about this too much. All paladins are great, and there aren't really any trap options. Every paladin I've ever seen can contribute to their game. So my first advice would be to play the one that seems to fit your character idea the best. If you really want to lean into mechanics, pick a subclass that has one or two things that you think would be interesting and don't worry about whether it is the best paladin or not. You are going to be fine.

Having said that, with that party, I'd likely go Vengeance since the twilight cleric has your defense boosted. That gives you movement and better offense. I'm particularly fond of the mark of shadow elf for the spells it gives you.

Sception
2022-02-15, 12:11 PM
Because the paladin base class is so strong and does so much, the subclass features tend to be a bit more understated than those of other classes where subclass needs to carry more mechanical weight. Even so, your paladin oath is pretty significant for both role-play and mechanics.

The features to focus on mechanically are Channel Divinity, Oath Spells, and level 7 feature - though the latter can be ignored if you plan to multiclass, and the paladin does have a variety of excellent multiclassing options, so if you happen to like an oath that has an underwhelming level 7 feature - eg vengeance - then you can always hop out before it matters.

Channel Divinity:you can use this ability once per short rest. That doesn't seem like a lot, but remember that most of the paladins limited resource abilities - Healing Word, spell slots for both spells and Divine Smite - only refresh on a long rest. This makes Channel Divinity a key feature for a Paladin's stamina on long adventuring days. Good Channel Divinities might enhance the paladin's existing strengths, as with the Devotee's Sacred Weapon or the Avenger's Vow of Enmity boosting single target damage output. Alternatively they might shore up class weaknesses, as with the Conqueror's Conquering Presence providing a solid large AoE crowd control debuff.

Each paladin subclass gets two channel divinities, which creates space for strong-but-situational abilities (eg, Devotee's Turn the Unholy), so long as the other option is more reliably effective. Thankfully, so long as your table uses the optional class features from Tasha's Cauldron of Everything, all paladins gain a decent fallback CD option in Harness Divine Power. This is particularly nice for Ancients Paladins, who previously had one strong but overly situational CD (Turn the Faithless) and one outright terrible one (Nature's Wrath).

Regardless, as the paladin class's main short rest resource, any paladin should be aiming to make maximum use of their Channel Divinities, making a point to use one every short rest, which helps the various oaths distinguish themselves from one another in play.

Oath Spells:Divine Smite is reasonably strong and easy to use, so its common for inexperienced paladin players to fall into a habit of smiting all their slots away and hardly ever casting spells at all. If you aren't casting spells to begin with, you'll naturally overlook the additional spells provided by your Oath. This is all a mistake though - as nice as divine smite is, and as much as you'll want to save a spell slot or two to help bring down especially tough enemies, actually casting spells will often provide greater returns to your party. The paladin base class has access to some amazing party support spells like Bless and Aid; solid personal buffs in spells like Shield of Faith & Magic Weapon; critical problem fixing options in Lesser Restoration, Remove Curse, Dispel Magic, and Revivify; a handful of decent control options in Wrathful Smite & Banish; & Tasha's brings in some great extra options including Warding Bond and Spirit Shroud.

The truth is, pretty much every experienced paladin should be casting spells - most should be doing so as much if not more than smiting. And once you are in the habit of casting spells, the additional options from your Oath Spell list are suddenly quite compelling. Or at least they can be. Devotion is a bit lacking here, as their oath list, while it includes some spells you'll definitely cast, mostly consists of spells paladins already have access to. But for some other oaths, the oath spell list positively makes the subclass.

One area paladin spells tend to be lacking in is positioning spells, particularly teleportation, which can make a huge difference when trying to pick out the best target for your attacks or optimally place your auras in crowded combats. Grabbing Misty Step at 5th level via Ancients or Vengeance paladin is a huge advantage here that can definitely change how these paladins play compared to their more static peers. A vengeance paladin who sticks it out in class despite their lackluster level 7 feature is further rewarded with Haste at level 9 and Dimension Door at level 13, and they come out of the gate strong with hunters mark at level 3. Oath spells then become a strong selling point for the subclass.

The only especially notable oath spell of Crown Paladins (at least after Tasha's gave Warding Bond to all paladins), is Spirit Guardians at level 9, but Spirit Guardians is such an amazing spell on a paladin that it practically makes the entire subclass on its own.

Conquest Paladins have their prickly, tanky, & fearsome disposition strongly reinforced by Armor of Agathys at level 3 and especially Fear at level 9, but they also are happy to pick up Spiritual Weapon at level 5. This spell is a significant boon to the subclass since the extra pressure on their charisma (gotta have a high spell DC to land those frighten effects and trigger their aura) makes it harder to fit in the usual weapon feats (PAM and/or GWM) that allow other paladins to make use of their bonus actions, and while Spiritual Weapon is a slower source of damage than divine smite, it is often more slot efficient, helping conquerors contribute extra damage in tough encounters while saving spell slots for those frighten effects.

I won't go through every subclass's list, but that should give you some ideas for the ways Oath Spells can help distinguish paladin subclasses, giving you a framework to judge individual lists for yourself.

Level 7 Feature:This is usually a passive, always-active aura, or an ability that can be triggered every round. As such, this could theoretically go further than the previously mentioned features in distinguishing a unique play style for different paladin subclasses, though in practice that's really only the case for a couple subclasses.

Devotion's charm-immunity aura or Ancient's Spell Damage resistance auras, for instance, are absolutely huge in the right campaign, but in the wrong campaign they may not come up all that much, and regardless they don't exactly change how you or the rest of the party will fight round-by-round most of the time. Yeah, the party might bunch up around you more against particular enemies, but Aura of Protection already encourages that behavior. So while these are great features - among the strongest that any paladin subclass gets at this level, they don't necessarily change how the character feels to play.

The most distinctive level 7 features in terms of setting a unique play style are those of the Xanathar's paladins, Redemption and Conquest. Redemption lets you transfer damage from an ally to yourself each round, and that can absolutely define a unique play style not just for you but for your entire party. I'm not personally the biggest fan of it, though, as concentrating damage on a single party member tends to be a bad thing you want to avoid unless that party member has a way to mitigate it, and the feature prevents some of the most obvious combinations you'd want to employ there. It can absolutely work, though, and makes for a weird and very distinct sort of masochistic martyr play style.

On the other hand Aura of Conquest makes conquest paladins amazing lockdown tanks and frighten-based bullys, negating the main problem with frighten as a condition - that it tends to scatter enemies, which is usually a good thing but some times causes a lot more trouble when those fleeing enemies alert their allies to the party's presence. frightened enemies trapped in the conqueror's aura don't get to move at all, which is just fantastic and makes for an extremely unique play style, albeit one with a darker and edgier disposition than some parties might be comfortable with. Granted, some enemies will be immune to frighten, or just have fantastic wisdom saves or spell resistance, but that's when the conqueror breaks out spiritual weapon, or even a divine smite or two, and just reverts to the usual paladin game plan, which is already quite strong.

Probably the strongest & most broadly applicable level 7 feature comes from the Oath of Watchers, adding your proficiency bonus to the entire party's initiative score. helping your party's spellcasters and damage dealers act before the enemy will often be the difference between fights that the party mops up with no effort and fights that get out of hand and end up draining a bunch of resources, or even knock party members out of the action altogether.

On the far opposite extreme, the level 7 vengeance feature, while not useless, is at best lackluster. As previously mentioned, though, you can take that as a sign that it's time to multiclass out into sorcerer, warlock, or bard. In this way even weaker subclass features can help shape your build in positive ways.

...

And that's just looking at paladin subclasses from a mechanical angle, which you don't have to do. Again, paladin is a strong class out of the gate. It would be in the top half of classes for mechanical effectiveness even with no subclass features at all. As such, you can feel free to choose your oath based on narrative and characterization - on role play - without worrying much about mechanics.

Every subclass in the game has some amount of flavor and personality to it, but the Paladin subclasses go above and beyond here thanks to the oath tenets. From the Devotee's classic Arthurian, 'Knight in Shining Armor' on a quest to defend the weak and strike down the wicked, to the Ancient's green-knight style defender of the wild and free, to the ever-vigilant Watchers defending the mortal world from the horror beyond even as the knowledge of those horrors distances them from those they protect, to the Conquerors who believe the only way for order to flourish is if they personally force disorder into submission through unrelenting violence and intimidation.

Probably the least good paladin subclass is oath of the crown, which gets no particularly noteworthy features until Spirit Guardians as an oath spell at level nine. But before level nine, they're still a paladin, which is still great by default, and after level nine they're a paladin with Spirit Guardians, which is terrifying, so if you want to play the oath-sworn knight of the realm who struggles to balance their personal sense of right and wrong against their loyalty to the crown, if that sounds like a cool character to role play, then you should absolutely feel free to play the Oath of the Crown paladin confident that you can still make a fully effective effective party member, more than able to pull your own weight.