Shortest Path to Reaction Sneak Attack with Booming Blade?

[5eNeedsDarksun]

What is the quickest, most efficient (fewest levels and feats) way to get reliable reaction sneak attack with Booming Blade as a Rogue (multiclass?) I'm thinking it likely includes Swashbuckler Subclass given they don't need advantage which is going to be trickier on a reaction, but maybe I'm missing something.

[Willowhelm]

Is this assuming your PC is alone? Magic items?

[Ganryu]

Arcane trickster, Sentinel + War caster feats? You just need an ally within 5 feet of them. If you want swashbuckler, then throw in Magic initiate into that list, but otherwise, you get it lvl 4 most of the time.

[5eNeedsDarksun]

Arcane trickster, Sentinel + War caster feats? You just need an ally within 5 feet of them. If you want swashbuckler, then throw in Magic initiate into that list, but otherwise, you get it lvl 4 most of the time.
I was thinking without an ally (hence the Swashbuckler thought), so you had to deal with all conditions yourself. But fair point and this would definitely be a way to get things going then add options later.

[Greywander]

Well, the easiest way is probably to just get an ally to cast Dissonant Whispers, but if you want it all on one character, that's going to be trickier.

This is made all the trickier by the fact that Booming Blade encourages enemies not to move, while most methods of provoking OAs require them to move. The benefit is that whether they move or not, either option is beneficial to you. So ideally you want to set up a scenario where the enemy not provoking an OA is good for you, but them moving and provoking an OA is also good for you. A Morton's Fork (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MortonsFork).

Minimum you need Booming Blade and Warcaster.

Before we get to OAs, there's a particular combo that can be rather effective with Booming Blade. Dip into genielock (dao) to add bludgeoning damage to your attacks (once per turn, and only on your turn) (you can also pick up Booming Blade while you're here). Now pick up Crusher. When you hit someone with Booming Blade, Genie's Wrath will add bludgeoning damage to the attack (important, because there aren't any Sneak Attack compatible weapons that deal bludgeoning damage, except slings), which then triggers Crusher, pushing the enemy back and out of reach. Now they have to move in order to reach you (unless they have a longer reach, e.g. 10 feet), but Booming Blade will deal extra damage to them if they do. This sets up a basic Morton's Fork: move and take damage, or stand still and rely on using ranged attacks (if they have any).

We can build on this in order to incorporate OAs into the mix. Grab PAM and pick up a spear or quarterstaff in your other hand. You only need to be wielding a polearm in order to trigger the OA when someone approaches you, you don't actually have to attack with the polearm (unless they changed this in errata). This means you get an OA, but you can use a rapier or shortsword instead of the spear or staff for the attack, allowing you to trigger Sneak Attack.

So with this setup, you'll hit an enemy and push them away. If they move, they take damage, and they'll trigger an OA to potentially take even more damage. Or they can stand still, but they won't be able to reach you with melee attacks. And next turn you'll just move up and hit them again.

What you need to pull this off: 1 level in warlock, Warcaster, PAM, and Crusher. So the feat tax is pretty high, but the end result is a character who's pretty good at zone control. An enemy who tries to move past you will end up triggering Booming Blade twice, making it very dangerous to try and move past you without taking you down.

There's probably a better way to do this, but it does seem to be possible at least.

Edit: To trigger Sneak Attack, you can try to only engage enemies that have another party member next to them. Otherwise you could go Arcane Trickster, pick up Ritual Caster, or dip to warlock 3 in order to get a familiar. That last option gives you an invisible flying familiar, so it can stay next to an enemy without being in too much danger. You could also pick up the Blind Fighting style (a fighter dip or another feat) and cast Fog Cloud or Darkness. Swashbuckler works, too.

[Naanomi]

Depends on what you are willing to pay... the fastest would likely be V.Human/Custom Lineage Rogue/Sorcerer at level 2... But SCAG Half-Elf (High) can get you Booming Blade without giving up a level and is a good base for just picking up Warcaster later

[Willowhelm]

Variant Human or Custom lineage to get the warcaster feat.
Hat of Wizardry to try and cast a cantrip you don't know. (Maybe there's another item that lets you booming blade?)
Ally next to the creature
Opportunity attack

That will work at lvl 1 although the hat has a check and the wording also assumes (but does not specify) an action is used.

Otherwise you'll need a second level to pick up the cantrip from somewhere I think

I doubt that "fastest" is going to be what you really want though?

If you're going for reliable, stand alone, reaction sneak attacks every round then maybe get an order cleric in the party. That wont get you booming blade though (voice of authority needs a weapon attack... I don't think BB counts).

[AIResearch]

VHuman / Custom Lineage (PAM)

Pick up 1 level in Rogue and 8 levels in Wizard for Mobility and Warcaster. Have a familar or minion next to you.

Or 4 Swashbuckler for Warcaster, 1 level in Sorceror or Wizard for BB. No advantage required.

Or 3 Swashbuckler/ Sorceror or Wizard 4+ (Warcaster and BB) to keep 9th level spells on the table. Neat interaction with Marilith's Reactive Trait.

[Chaos Jackal]

Note that if you start with a non-casting class you can't take War Caster through variant human or custom lineage.

Fastest method would thus be to start with a caster class that can use booming blade and War Caster as a bonus feat, then take whatever level of rogue you want and have your trick at lv2.

If you don't want to multiclass and also want Swashbuckler, you can either go variant human or custom lineage for Magic Initiate and then War Caster at lv4, or start as a high elf, pick the cantrip at lv1 and then War Caster at lv4.

[Dualight]

I can think of a way that would get you reaction sneak attack booming blade from 1st level, but it takes a house rule:
If the DM grants everyone a bonus feat to start with, and does not ban V human/Custom Lineage, then you can take Magic Initiate for booming blade as the first feat, use the now-acquired spellcasting to qualify for and obtain Warcaster, take the rogue class.
Voila, you can cast booming blade as a reaction and benefit from sneak attack out of the gate.

The fastest (that is, lowest level) route that is still RAW is what Chaos Jackal described.

[Mastikator]

If you want to maximize the number of opportunities to trigger a reaction attack then you can take 3 levels of fighter, battlemaster and take brace and riposte. That way anyone attacks you and misses or approaches you will trigger a reaction. Add in sentinel and disengage or attacking an ally also triggers reaction. Rest levels rogue.

Approach = opportunity attack
Disengage = opportunity attack
Attack you = opportunity attack
Attack someone else = opportunity attack

Throw in mage slayer feat to make opportunity attack when adjacent enemies cast spells.

[Khrysaes]

Fastest as mentioned would be vhuman with Warcaster and 1 level of a caster class. Warlock and Sorc go well with Swashbuckler.

Otherwise you wait till level 4.

I would suggest 5 hexblade/x swashbuckler, maybe more warlock. This can get you extra attack, warcaster, and booming blade to use for your sneak attacks.

If you don't want Cha. 6 Bladesinger or 6 EK would be good for the same reasons. So can Artificer Battlesmith or Armorer. Bladesinger is my favorite here since you can cast BB and attack in the same turn, then warcaster/reaction BB. So three chances to get sneak attack, two of which are BB. 6EK gets an extra feat. 12 Rogue/8EK gets 7 ASI total, on par with 19 fighter.

[JackPhoenix]

If you want to maximize the number of opportunities to trigger a reaction attack then you can take 3 levels of fighter, battlemaster and take brace and riposte. That way anyone attacks you and misses or approaches you will trigger a reaction. Add in sentinel and disengage or attacking an ally also triggers reaction. Rest levels rogue.

Approach = opportunity attack
Disengage = opportunity attack
Attack you = opportunity attack
Attack someone else = opportunity attack

Throw in mage slayer feat to make opportunity attack when adjacent enemies cast spells.

None of the listed is an opportunity attack, which means no War Caster spellcasting substitution, which means no Booming Blade.

[Pildion]

What is the quickest, most efficient (fewest levels and feats) way to get reliable reaction sneak attack with Booming Blade as a Rogue (multiclass?) I'm thinking it likely includes Swashbuckler Subclass given they don't need advantage which is going to be trickier on a reaction, but maybe I'm missing something.

Fastest? Well you'll need War Caster for the AoO to be Booming Blade, so vHuman HexBlade1>RougeX. that would be the fastest. But I would go HexBlade2>Rouge18 for the build, it would be a better build.

If you really want to double down, then you would need PAM, so HexBlade5>Rouge15 would be the way to go. Get both AoO and PAM giving you reaction Booming Blade Sneak Attacks.

[Yakk]

Get a scimitar of speed.

L1 feat to get Booming Blade.

Rogue 1.

Use scimitar to BA attack, then ready an action to cast booming blade on some trivial trigger.

[Dr. Murgunstrum]

If I’m not mistaken, it’s V.Human or C.Lineage with a spellcasting background (Strixhaven) for warcaster, Arcane trickster 3 for booming blade and find familiar.

Otherwise it’s the same story, but level 4 and you add sentinel to the mix.

[Khrysaes]

If I’m not mistaken, it’s V.Human or C.Lineage with a spellcasting background (Strixhaven) for warcaster, Arcane trickster 3 for booming blade and find familiar.

Otherwise it’s the same story, but level 4 and you add sentinel to the mix.

The strixhaven backgrounds specifically give the strixhaven initiate feats, which don't have booming blade.

Ergo, there is no difference in the earliest a rogue, strixhaven background or otherwise, can get booming blade + warcaster than level 1, which is vhuman+ warcaster as the bonus feat + casting class, then level 2 for rogue(or vice versa if you want to start rogue.

[Greywander]

The strixhaven backgrounds specifically give the strixhaven initiate feats, which don't have booming blade.

Ergo, there is no difference in the earliest a rogue, strixhaven background or otherwise, can get booming blade + warcaster than level 1, which is vhuman+ warcaster as the bonus feat + casting class, then level 2 for rogue(or vice versa if you want to start rogue.
I think the Strixhaven background is to get spellcasting, which is a prerequisite for Warcaster. Otherwise, there's no way to take Warcaster at 1st level as a vhuman/custom lineage rogue. Booming Blade comes from Arcane Trickster.

[Khrysaes]

I think the Strixhaven background is to get spellcasting, which is a prerequisite for Warcaster. Otherwise, there's no way to take Warcaster at 1st level as a vhuman/custom lineage rogue. Booming Blade comes from Arcane Trickster.

Ahh. That makes sense. I would still think starting as 1 caster class, like Arcana Cleric, Wizard, Sorcerer, or Warlock, would be better. You get Booming Blade AND warcaster, then rogue at 2.

But yes, I forgot about the prerequisite to casting a spell, NOTABLE, it doesn't say you need to be able to cast a cantrip, just one spell.

[Greywander]

I think people are focusing too much on getting both Warcaster and Booming Blade that they forgot the other part of the OP: a reliable reaction Sneak Attack. Warcaster only works if you can somehow get the enemy to provoke an OA in the first place, so it's not super reliable by itself.


Get a scimitar of speed.

L1 feat to get Booming Blade.

Rogue 1.

Use scimitar to BA attack, then ready an action to cast booming blade on some trivial trigger.
This is pretty good, but ideally we'd want a way to use BB on our own turn as well. That said, Sneak Attacks are potent enough that it doesn't necessarily need BB on top of that, but every little bit helps. The Quickened Spell metamagic would allow you to cast Booming Blade as a bonus action, then ready an action for an off-turn Booming Blade, but metamagic isn't sustainable.

Hmm, there should be a class or subclass that either lets you ready an action as a bonus action, or allows you to take certain actions as a bonus action if you ready an action. I could see this working conceptually on a mastermind type of character, where they always have something planned.

[Khrysaes]

I think people are focusing too much on getting both Warcaster and Booming Blade that they forgot the other part of the OP: a reliable reaction Sneak Attack. Warcaster only works if you can somehow get the enemy to provoke an OA in the first place, so it's not super reliable by itself.


This is pretty good, but ideally we'd want a way to use BB on our own turn as well. That said, Sneak Attacks are potent enough that it doesn't necessarily need BB on top of that, but every little bit helps. The Quickened Spell metamagic would allow you to cast Booming Blade as a bonus action, then ready an action for an off-turn Booming Blade, but metamagic isn't sustainable.

Hmm, there should be a class or subclass that either lets you ready an action as a bonus action, or allows you to take certain actions as a bonus action if you ready an action. I could see this working conceptually on a mastermind type of character, where they always have something planned.

You are correct. And that is an option.

Other reaction attacks include sentinel, several battlemaster maneuvers, some teamwork(order cleric and other features)

[OBoyd]

Custom Lineage Swashbucklers 4. Magic Initiate at 1 and Warcaster at 4.

[AIResearch]

Custom Lineage Swashbucklers 4. Magic Initiate at 1 and Warcaster at 4.

Don't you still need something like PAM to get a reliable sneak attack? With Swashbuckler and PAM you can disengage and sneak attack when they engage you on their turn.

If you also pick up Reactive you can output X number of sneak attacks where X is the number of opponents who engage you on their turn.

[Naanomi]

Don't you still need something like PAM to get a reliable sneak attack? With Swashbuckler and PAM you can disengage and sneak attack when they engage you on their turn.
... How are you sneak attacking with a Polearm?

[AIResearch]

... How are you sneak attacking with a Polearm?

You aren't sneak attacking with the polearm. You are one-handing a quarterstaff or spear to get an OA when your opponent enters your reach with that weapon and then sneak attacking with the finesse weapon in your other hand.

The other option worth noting is the Gloomweaver's shadow spear which is a finesse weapon and a polearm.

[5eNeedsDarksun]

When I put the thread out I was thinking of:
Some sort of Spellcaster at level 1 to get Warcaster. Let's just say Divine Soul, cause they're good.
3 levels of Battlemaster to get Brace,
and 1 level of Rogue.

[Talionis]

Can’t magic initiate for Booming Blade and Find Familiar provide the ally so you don’t need Swashbuckler?

[Dalinar]

I think I can win this one: Vhuman GOOlock 1 gets you War Caster, Booming Blade, and Dissonant Whispers. Rogue 1 gets you Sneak Attack. Walk up, cast Dissonant Whispers, immediately Sneak Attack with your reaction.

Sure, the downsides are rather tough: you get 1 per short rest, they have to fail a save, and you have to take a level in a rather unpopular subclass, AND you don't also get to Sneak Attack with your action. But there you go.

Alternatively go Divine Soul Sorcerer and do the same trick but with Command.

EDIT: I guess this still requires an ally standing nearby. Hm.

[Greywander]

As an alternative to a familiar, you could also go for the Mounted Combatant feat, although that's another feat tax. The mount itself counts as an ally, so you always qualify for Sneak Attack. Mounted Combatant makes the mount much harder to kill, and if the enemy is smaller than the mount then you also get advantage on the attack. It's not very efficient, but it is rather effective.

Bonus points if you team up with a PC centaur (making Mounted Combatant optional), especially one who is also a grappler (Rune Knight?). They can grab an enemy and shove them prone, and then you stab them to death with prejudice. Not sure how reliably you could get a reaction attack this way, though.

Actually, an interesting build might be a small rogue riding a centaur monk with Mobile. The centaur zips around the battlefield, tapping enemies with Stunning Strike or whatever, and you just ready an action to BB an enemy that you approach (which the monk then leaves behind, so the enemy can't pursue without triggering BB). Scimitar of Speed might work well for this setup, allowing you to get a BA attack if the centaur stops next to an enemy. This combo would make quite a lethal interceptor duo. "Mages hate them... One weird trick to killing enemy casters."

I wrote up a homebrew rogue subclass that is a traveling merchant (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bdMq-PSHUUhDN6_3g7ZyffCpXtEJS9rUnepF9HNq1OQ/edit?usp=sharing). Like the thief, they get to use items as a BA, and specifically can Sneak Attack with e.g. a thrown flask of acid. This would allow you to throw acid as a BA and get Sneak Attack on it, then ready an action to cast Booming Blade off-turn. The subclass gets a limited number of "free" consumables like acid or potions per long rest, but you can also use an Alchemy Jug to stockpile as much acid as you need. Sadly, this is homebrew, not RAW, but it would actually work really well for what you're trying to do. (Hmm, a little too well.) Since the thrown acid is ranged, this also works well for being mounted on a monk with Mobile, since the monk no longer needs to end their turn next to an enemy for you to be able to attack on your turn (though you do need to make sure you qualify for Sneak Attack since the monk is no longer next to the target; maybe a three level dip into chainlock for the invisible familiar).

[kazaryu]

What is the quickest, most efficient (fewest levels and feats) way to get reliable reaction sneak attack with Booming Blade as a Rogue (multiclass?) I'm thinking it likely includes Swashbuckler Subclass given they don't need advantage which is going to be trickier on a reaction, but maybe I'm missing something.

-insert whatever i need to do to make it bluetext because i don't know how-V.human with magic initiate for booming blade. then just use your action to ready an spell cast. boom, do it at level 1-insert closing blue text stuff-


in all seriousness, reliable reaction attack are pretty rare in general in 5e. PAM is easily the most reliable that i can think of, but i don't think there's any way to get it to work with SA. actually...scratch that.


While you are wielding a glaive, halberd, pike, quarterstaff, or spear, other creatures provoke an opportunity attack from you when they enter the reach you have with that weapon.

technically..they provoke an opportunity attack...but the rule doesn't say that you have to make that opportunity attack with that weapon. so if you have the dual wielding feat...Pam...and warcaster. you can dual wield a spear or quarterstaff with a finesse weapon. in order to provoke the opportunity attack when they close to melee. then warcaster to instead cast booming blade using the finesse weapon. and yeah, i'd agree that swashbuckler definitely makes that more in terms of proccing SA. still...you can't get all 3 feats until lvl 8 at the earliest. (although the rules are super skimpy here. there may be an argument that you don't need dual weilder...im not going to make that argument...but it might be possible).

the only other method that i'd consider to be 'reliable' for getting a reaction attack would be via haste. which you could theoretically start doing as early as level 6 if you got 5 levels of a full caster that gets haste first. of course then your SA is weak sauce until you scale for several levels so...

obviously taking a 2 level dip in fighter for action surge can get you a reliable off turn attack. just not consistently.

[AIResearch]

-insert whatever i need to do to make it bluetext because i don't know how-V.human with magic initiate for booming blade. then just use your action to ready an spell cast. boom, do it at level 1-insert closing blue text stuff-


in all seriousness, reliable reaction attack are pretty rare in general in 5e. PAM is easily the most reliable that i can think of, but i don't think there's any way to get it to work with SA. actually...scratch that.



technically..they provoke an opportunity attack...but the rule doesn't say that you have to make that opportunity attack with that weapon. so if you have the dual wielding feat...Pam...and warcaster. you can dual wield a spear or quarterstaff with a finesse weapon. in order to provoke the opportunity attack when they close to melee. then warcaster to instead cast booming blade using the finesse weapon. and yeah, i'd agree that swashbuckler definitely makes that more in terms of proccing SA. still...you can't get all 3 feats until lvl 8 at the earliest. (although the rules are super skimpy here. there may be an argument that you don't need dual weilder...im not going to make that argument...but it might be possible).

the only other method that i'd consider to be 'reliable' for getting a reaction attack would be via haste. which you could theoretically start doing as early as level 6 if you got 5 levels of a full caster that gets haste first. of course then your SA is weak sauce until you scale for several levels so...

obviously taking a 2 level dip in fighter for action surge can get you a reliable off turn attack. just not consistently.

You don't need the Dual Wielder feat. Each sneak attack is a single attack with the finesse weapon.

[JackPhoenix]

The other option worth noting is the Gloomweaver's shadow spear which is a finesse weapon and a polearm.

It's not a finesse weapon.

[AIResearch]

It's not a finesse weapon.

If you check its stats the Gloomweaver applies its dex mod to the spear.

[JackPhoenix]

If you check its stats the Gloomweaver applies its dex mod to the spear.

I did, and no, it doesn't. And even if it did, it still doesn't mean the spear is finesse weapon. Monks can apply their dex mod to spear too, but they also don't make spear a finesse weapon.

[AIResearch]

I did, and no, it doesn't. And even if it did, it still doesn't mean the spear is finesse weapon. Monks can apply their dex mod to spear too, but they also don't make spear a finesse weapon.

The GW proficiency bonus is +4 and it's strength mod is +0 while its dexterity mod is +4. The weapon is listed at +8. The stat block does not list any ability emulating the monk's ability. Are you going to add a monk ability to the stat block or make the easy inference that the shadow spear is a finesse melee weapon?

Either way you can get an unbounded number of sneak attacks if you pick up Marilith's Reactive trait. You could set up a massive number of attacks with Arcane Gate and Reverse Gravity. Infinite, in fact, if you use the PHB rule for falling.

[kazaryu]

You don't need the Dual Wielder feat. Each sneak attack is a single attack with the finesse weapon.

the reason you *might* need dualk weilder for that combo is that you *have* to be wielding a spear/quarterstaff in order for PAM's opportunity attack to proc. but since neither is a finesse weapon you *also* need to be wielding a finesse weapon. But thats also why there's a grey area, since technically dual weilder only applies to the BA attack, but i wouldn't be surprised if a DM required it for such a setup.

but yeah, as i said, there is an argument that you don't need the dual weilder feat.


The GW proficiency bonus is +4 and it's strength mod is +0 while its dexterity mod is +4. The weapon is listed at +8. The stat block does not list any ability emulating the monk's ability. Are you going to add a monk ability to the stat block or make the easy inference that the shadow spear is a finesse melee weapon? it doesn't matter what you infer. that doesn't make their spear a finesse weapon. it just means they have a hidden feature that lets them use Dex. similar to how one of the hobgoblin variants actually doubles their prof mod for their to-hit. Just because a monster can do a thing, doesn't mean that thing can only be explained via abilities that PC's have access to.


Either way you can get an unbounded number of sneak attacks if you pick up Marilith's Reactive trait. You could set up a massive number of attacks with Arcane Gate and Reverse Gravity. Infinite, in fact, if you use the PHB rule for falling. how are you using reverse gravity to provoke opportunity attacks? opportunity attacks are normally only provoked when a creature uses its movement to leave your reach, not when they fall.

[AIResearch]

the reason you *might* need dualk weilder for that combo is that you *have* to be wielding a spear/quarterstaff in order for PAM's opportunity attack to proc. but since neither is a finesse weapon you *also* need to be wielding a finesse weapon. But thats also why there's a grey area, since technically dual weilder only applies to the BA attack, but i wouldn't be surprised if a DM required it for such a setup.

but yeah, as i said, there is an argument that you don't need the dual weilder feat.

Well according to the RAW you don't need Dual Wieder. A DM could always house rule that Dual Wielder is required.



it doesn't matter what you infer. that doesn't make their spear a finesse weapon. it just means they have a hidden feature that lets them use Dex. similar to how one of the hobgoblin variants actually doubles their prof mod for their to-hit. Just because a monster can do a thing, doesn't mean that thing can only be explained via abilities that PC's have access to.
how are you using reverse gravity to provoke opportunity attacks? opportunity attacks are normally only provoked when a creature uses its movement to leave your reach, not when they fall.

There are no hidden rules. Inferring the finesse (which is an existing weapon property) trait on a stat block is not making up rules that do not exist.

The shadow spear lacks the thrown property and a range so it is already not a spear but its own weapon profile which lets wielders use dex, so its a finesse weapon.

Sympathy can be used to generate an obscene number of sneak attacks with PAM.

[Khrysaes]

the reason you *might* need dualk weilder for that combo is that you *have* to be wielding a spear/quarterstaff in order for PAM's opportunity attack to proc. but since neither is a finesse weapon you *also* need to be wielding a finesse weapon. But thats also why there's a grey area, since technically dual weilder only applies to the BA attack, but i wouldn't be surprised if a DM required it for such a setup.

but yeah, as i said, there is an argument that you don't need the dual weilder feat.



Dual wielder is only needed if you plan on attacking using the Two Weapon Fighting rules on a bonus action. Nothing prevents a character from holding two non light weapons but only attacking with one of them. So by RAW the feat is not needed. It may be useful for the AC and bonus action attack, but not needed

When you take the Attack action and attack with a light melee weapon that you're holding in one hand, you can use a bonus action to attack with a different light melee weapon that you're holding in the other hand. You don't add your ability modifier to the damage of the bonus attack, unless that modifier is negative


You master fighting with two weapons, gaining the following benefits:


You gain a +1 bonus to AC while you are wielding a separate melee weapon in each hand.
You can use two-weapon fighting even when the one-handed melee weapons you are wielding aren't light.
You can draw or stow two one-handed weapons when you would normally be able to draw or stow only one.



According to PAM
You only need to be wielding a qstaff or spear, but as mentioned it doesn't say you have to attack with it.
While you are wielding a glaive, halberd, pike, quarterstaff, or spear, other creatures provoke an opportunity attack from you when they enter your reach.

[JackPhoenix]

There are no hidden rules. Inferring the finesse (which is an existing weapon property) trait on a stat block is not making up rules that do not exist.

The shadow spear lacks the thrown property and a range so it is already not a spear but its own weapon profile which lets wielders use dex, so its a finesse weapon.

Exactly. There are no hidden rules, so unless the stat block explicitly says the spear has a finesse property, it doesn't. NPCs can use whatever numeric values they want. By your "logic", inferring the Martial Arts (which is an existing class ability) or, more likely, considering Gloom Weaver has warlock spellcasting and the same Cha bonus, Hex Warrior (which is also an existing class ability) trait on a stat block is not making up rules that do not exist.

[AIResearch]

Exactly. There are no hidden rules, so unless the stat block explicitly says the spear has a finesse property, it doesn't. NPCs can use whatever numeric values they want. By your "logic", inferring the Martial Arts (which is an existing class ability) or, more likely, considering Gloom Weaver has warlock spellcasting and the same Cha bonus, Hex Warrior (which is also an existing class ability) trait on a stat block is not making up rules that do not exist.

The shadow spear doesn't have the thrown property. Are we going to infer that it is actually a spear and that the thrown property was left off accidentally?

Further, monster blocks don't have hidden PC features as the stat block has everything you need per the MM and DMG 92 indicates you use PHB character creation rules or Monster Manual stablocks and not a mish mash of MM statblock and hidden PHB rules.

[JackPhoenix]

The shadow spear doesn't have the thrown property. Are we going to infer that it is actually a spear and that the thrown property was left off accidentally?

Of course shadow spear doesn't have the thrown property. NPC attack options don't have properties.


Further, monster blocks don't have hidden PC features as the stat block has everything you need per the MM and DMG 92 indicates you use PHB character creation rules or Monster Manual stablocks and not a mish mash of MM statblock and hidden PHB rules.

Indeed. And Gloom Weaver uses a monster stat block with whatever attack bonus the creators deemed appropriate for its CR, without using any piece of equipment, which, by your own admission, means it doesn't use any hidden PHB rules, like having the finesse property on its attack option.

[Naanomi]

If 'shadow spear' can't be thrown than it isn't a spear and thus cannot be used by Polearm Mastery anyways