List of prestige classes which require casting, but DON'T advance it.

[H_H_F_F]

So, there are a few of these around: prcs that require the ability to cast spells or a caster level, but don't advance previous casting classes, nor otherwise allow you to gain higher level casting, nor grant their own casting.

These are always strangely fascinating to me. I recognize they mostly suck outside of very particular and low-op builds, but I still have a soft spot for them. However, I feel like there must be more of them than I'm aware of.


Arcane Archer
Arcane Duelist (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20030224a)
Blade Dancer (OA)
Dragon Disciple
Hammer of Moradin (PGtF)
Hierophant
Mystic (Dragon Magazine)


Can anyone think of more?

[Gruftzwerg]

Hammer of Moradin...

Really I hate this kind of concept. Require something that ain't be used and progressed further..

[Jervis]

So, there are a few of these around: prcs that require the ability to cast spells or a caster level, but don't advance previous casting levels, otherwise allow you to gain higher level casting, or grant their own casting.

These are always strangely fascinating to me. I recognize they mostly suck outside of very particular and low-op builds, but I still have a soft spot for them. However, I feel like there must be more of them than I'm aware of.

Right now, 4 come to my mind:


Arcane Duelist (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20030224a)
Blade Dancer (OA)
Dragon Disciple
Hierophant


Can anyone think of more?

There's one weird one in Dungeon Magazine that i cant remember the name of that progresses either a Paladin's Mount or casting at every other level... for some reason. Other than that i know Mystic from Dragon Mag gives bonus spell slots but no increase in caster level or spellcasting ability outside of that. Literally terrible outside of specifically Ur-Priest or the last three levels of wizard. That is unless you need to break spell level cap with cheese then it's OK.

[Seward]

Master of the Unseen Hand
Arcane Archer.

Dragon Disciple at least gives more spells known. Those two give nothing directly, although I guess they do let you use existing spells in somewhat unusual ways.

Arcane Archer actually works pretty damn well as an "arcane ranger" and is a rare martial class that gets better in epic, because those enhancement bonuses keep progressing, through and past the +6 breakpoint for epic DR. I don't think much of it as a class for mostly-full casters though, to me it is a martial class with a bit of arcane casting instead of divine casting, as is more typical with classes like ranger or paladin.

[H_H_F_F]

Hammer of Moradin...

Thank you! Wasn't familiar with that one.


There's one weird one in Dungeon Magazine that i cant remember the name of that progresses either a Paladin's Mount or casting at every other level... for some reason. Other than that i know Mystic from Dragon Mag gives bonus spell slots but no increase in caster level or spellcasting ability outside of that. Literally terrible outside of specifically Ur-Priest or the last three levels of wizard. That is unless you need to break spell level cap with cheese then it's OK.

I don't know magazine content very well.. I'll add Mystic ro the list. Thanks!


Master of the Unseen Hand
Arcane Archer.

Slipped my mind. Thank you!

[Fizban]

Since Wild Shape can only be gained outside of Druid with a particular UA variant or late-printing PrC, I'd argue that Wild Shape requirements effectively count. So Master of Many Forms and Nature's Warrior. Warshaper is broader, but with the PHB characters (as one should expect for the early completes) it was either caster or DM-supplied afflicted Lycanthrope so I think it fits the spirit too.

[H_H_F_F]

Since Wild Shape can only be gained outside of Druid with a particular UA variant or late-printing PrC, I'd argue that Wild Shape requirements effectively count. So Master of Many Forms and Nature's Warrior. Warshaper is broader, but with the PHB characters (as one should expect for the early completes) it was either caster or DM-supplied afflicted Lycanthrope so I think it fits the spirit too.

For the purposes of this thread, I'm not interested in "effectively requires casting", only in "has a casting requirement" - so naturally, "effectively used to require casting" doesn't make the list.

Warshaper specifically was published in the same book as bear warrior, and explicitly calls it out as an option. Nature's warrior does advance casting.

[loky1109]

Telflamar shadowlord.
Has his own casting, and need dim door to enter.

[H_H_F_F]

Telflamar shadowlord.
Has his own casting, and need dim door to enter.

Classes that grant their own casting don't count, as I mentioned in the op.

[loky1109]

Ouch. I read start post wrong.

[Jervis]

Since Wild Shape can only be gained outside of Druid with a particular UA variant or late-printing PrC, I'd argue that Wild Shape requirements effectively count. So Master of Many Forms and Nature's Warrior. Warshaper is broader, but with the PHB characters (as one should expect for the early completes) it was either caster or DM-supplied afflicted Lycanthrope so I think it fits the spirit too.

Shapeshifter (OA) gives it, that version also scales with character level not class level. Also comes from templates and one outsider race

[Anthrowhale]

Hierophant advances caster level but not spell access. In fact, they can double advance caster level via the Spell Power special ability. Overall Hierophant is actually a pretty good class once you acquire 9th level spells.

[H_H_F_F]

Hierophant advances caster level but not spell access. In fact, they can double advance caster level via the Spell Power special ability. Overall Hierophant is actually a pretty good class once you acquire 9th level spells.

Yeah, I generally agree, though I'd say more 9ths per day are usually worth more.

Looking at my op, I can see how my comment about "caster levels" woupd be understood as ,"caster level". My bad. In my defence, I was extremely sleep deprived. Managed to get a few hours since then.

[redking]

Human Paragon advances casting twice over three levels and does not require casting, though it would be a terrible waste if you didn't.

[H_H_F_F]

Human Paragon advances casting twice over three levels and does not require casting, though it would be a terrible waste if you didn't.

There are a couple of classes like that. Happens a lot with psionics.

[liquidformat]

Mindspy is also in CW and has very similar requirements to Master of The Unseen Hand. Both of them are a bit strange compared to the others in this list since they can be accessed with SLAs or spells and if you have the required SLA at will are pretty good classes.

[H_H_F_F]

Mindspy is also in CW and has very similar requirements to Master of The Unseen Hand. Both of them are a bit strange compared to the others in this list since they can be accessed with SLAs or spells and if you have the required SLA at will are pretty good classes.

Good point.

[Seward]

Yeah, I generally agree, though I'd say more 9ths per day are usually worth more.



There's always the spontaneous caster route with versatile spellcaster. But any PRC that starts being useful to take at L19 doesn't tend to get much real world play. Even if you are in an epic game, it'll have opportunity cost of epic feats, at least.


Mindspy is also in CW and has very similar requirements to Master of The Unseen Hand. Both of them are a bit strange compared to the others in this list since they can be accessed with SLAs or spells and if you have the required SLA at will are pretty good classes.

I can't speak to Mindspy, I've never really thought about it. There are limitations to qualifying for MotUH outside of a caster class, which presumably can progress to CL10-11+MotUU levels and will have a natively high casting attribute to benefit from the abilities, which all use caster stat in important ways. Qualifying via a Ring of TK is pretty weak (only CL9 for "bab equivalent" and only caster stat equivalent of 15 per magic item rules). If you go the SLA route, sneaking in with a CL3 TK isn't so good, you want 10-11 depending on how far you intend to go in MotUH, and also you want a strong charisma score or it just won't be all that effective.

MotUH is at least full BAB, but it has crap skill points, a tiny skill list and boring "will good only" saves. If your TK is subpar, it won't help much. If your TK is up to a typical Wizard or Sorcerer with PC WBL, it can be pretty terrifying once you make it through 4 levels, especially if said wizard or sorcerer has the lower level spell support to make dangerous things to throw (fabricate/creation spells, GMW with chain spell or rod of chain or just cast on ammo, flame arrow on ammo etc) A dude with a strong SLA TK can go pretty far with ammunition and oils of align weapon, gmw and specialized ammo to punch through various DR, but it can get expensive.

(my highest level Living Greyhawk character was a TK themed sorceress with a geek-type interest in spell design. She didn't go down this road in play, wanting things like Control Weather as a TK capstone and Limited Wish from her spell design interest and L8 slots for metamagic, but had I played her past L16 I would have been tempted to make the last 4 levels MotUH)

[Brackenlord]

From the Eberron book Sharn: City of Towers there is the Cannith Wand Adept.

The requirements don't mention spells, but the feat Craft Wand requires: Caster level 5th.