Wizard's archives seems to be gone again.

[thorr-kan]

archive.wizards.com, even from the Wayback Machine.

[Doctor Despair]

archive.wizards.com, even from the Wayback Machine.

I just nabbed an archived page on the Wayback Machine, so I don't think the problem is as far-reaching as you suggested yet.

[thorr-kan]

I just nabbed an archived page on the Wayback Machine, so I don't think the problem is as far-reaching as you suggested yet.

Check your cache.

No archive.wizards.com I had saved comes up through Archive.Org for me, on multiple PCs. Looks like they finally pulled the plug.

[Scots Dragon]

Check your cache.

No archive.wizards.com I had saved comes up through Archive.Org for me, on multiple PCs. Looks like they finally pulled the plug.

I think that's because archive.org itself also seems to be at least partially down at the moment. It's taking ages to load certain pages, if they load at all.

Wizards pulling the plug wouldn't impact the Wayback Machine because it archives pages independently of whether the website itself is still available.

[loky1109]

I'm feeling only sad about this.
Do we have any options other than Wayback Machine?

[Malphegor]

I'm feeling only sad about this.
Do we have any options other than Wayback Machine?


I think someone was trying to create pdfs for people to ‘circulate the tapes’ last time this happened but then it came back online, dunno if that was continued or not.

One of these days I feel I should make a book, give it a fancy cover that says Player’s Handbook 3, and have it be a compilation of printed web content for my games. It’s just finding time (and uh, buying a printer as I just realised writing this I don’t have access to one now that I can’t sneakily use the printer at my old workplace for character sheets like I used to) to do that.

[Arcanist]

Fortunately in anticipation for this inevitability, I downloaded all of the webpages from the 3.x archive just to be safe. They deleted the official forums not once, not twice, but three times. I've been stung by WoTC too many times to trust them to ever keep anything up again.

[Balthanon]

Fortunately in anticipation for this inevitability, I downloaded all of the webpages from the 3.x archive just to be safe. They deleted the official forums not once, not twice, but three times. I've been stung by WoTC too many times to trust them to ever keep anything up again.

I did the same awhile back-- don't know that it has absolutely everything, but I'm pretty sure it was fairly comprehensive.

[lolcat]

Fortunately in anticipation for this inevitability, I downloaded all of the webpages from the 3.x archive just to be safe. They deleted the official forums not once, not twice, but three times. I've been stung by WoTC too many times to trust them to ever keep anything up again.

Do you maybe have a downlaod link for this collection? Would be much appreciated :)

[H_H_F_F]

I think someone was trying to create pdfs for people to ‘circulate the tapes’ last time this happened but then it came back online, dunno if that was continued or not.

One of these days I feel I should make a book, give it a fancy cover that says Player’s Handbook 3, and have it be a compilation of printed web content for my games. It’s just finding time (and uh, buying a printer as I just realised writing this I don’t have access to one now that I can’t sneakily use the printer at my old workplace for character sheets like I used to) to do that.

Great idea.


Fortunately in anticipation for this inevitability, I downloaded all of the webpages from the 3.x archive just to be safe. They deleted the official forums not once, not twice, but three times. I've been stung by WoTC too many times to trust them to ever keep anything up again.

Everything? If so, that's awesome. Any way for you to upload these anywhere?

[loky1109]

+1 to share request.

[Arcanist]

For anyone asking for me to publish a RAW file or share my collection, I would be more than happy to do so if could get a moderators approval to do so as I am unsure on forum policy of sharing materials of that sort. It would appear to fall under "Posting Copyrighted Content" so I am unsure and unwilling to do so until I have approval to do so.

[H_H_F_F]

For anyone asking for me to publish a RAW file or share my collection, I would be more than happy to do so if could get a moderators approval to do so as I am unsure on forum policy of sharing materials of that sort. It would appear to fall under "Posting Copyrighted Content" so I am unsure and unwilling to do so until I have approval to do so.

Makes sense.

As a side note: for WoTC to decide to pull the plug on all of their web material, but still pursue people for copyright infringement when they try to preserve it, would be lower than low. I doubt they'll do that.

[loky1109]

It was public materials, but I understand your hesitation.

[Buufreak]

Makes sense.

As a side note: for WoTC to decide to pull the plug on all of their web material, but still pursue people for copyright infringement when they try to preserve it, would be lower than low. I doubt they'll do that.

As someone who has a saved folder of all the C&Ds they have sent in the past, I would not be surprised in the slightest.

Note. This is not me giving any legal advice at all, merely stating fact that WotC has a legal team, and are not afraid to make that flex.

[Arcanist]

I am awaiting a moderators input on the matter, but as it stands this content will remain effectively lost until someone is willing to take the potential DMCA/C&D hit from WoTC. This person, I'm afraid, will not be me.

[Scots Dragon]

The archives are currently accessible via the Wayback Machine (https://web.archive.org/web/20161031211045/http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/arch/dnd).

[Elves]

As someone who has a saved folder of all the C&Ds they have sent in the past, I would not be surprised in the slightest.
Was this for content they had publicly posted on their site?

[Arcanist]

Was this for content they had publicly posted on their site?

Having confirmation from the Moderation team, I believe the point is rather moot. Here (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?641480-On-posting-removed-archived-content) is the Mods stance on the matter, which to me more or less settles it. This content is SOLELY available through the Wayback Machine as mentioned below.


The archives are currently accessible via the Wayback Machine (https://web.archive.org/web/20161031211045/http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/arch/dnd).

[Wildstag]

Yeah, I recall making a thread about it back in 2020 when it happened then. I dunno why they brought it back up back then, but they never made any official statements about it. It's a real shame, I had some bookmarks for downloading the pages, but never got around to it (somehow got a new job in April 2020).

I guess all that remains is petitioning the WotC staff to bring it back. It had some really amazing resources, such as old art packs and such. Wish they'd just allow someone else to host the content if they really just don't care for the website anymore. It's just that useful.

[Telonius]

"Hey guys, we have a group of customers who are totally willing to pay you $X for a .pdf of the whole thing, as opposed to the $Y you'll be paying your legal team to keep sending C&D letters to internet randos if it's not available" seems like an argument they'd respond to. But if not? ::shrug:: Their IP, their pick.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Wildstag
I guess all that remains is petitioning the WotC staff to bring it back.

We tried that as part of the previous thread, with a number of people submitting comments to the website and others trying to reach out directly to key employees.

Several of us received rather bland brush-offs, and I don’t think the employees responded at all. I’ll miss having the material available, and I’d still pay money for a collection, but unless someone is able to organize a large-scale and very effective petition, I don’t think there’s much else we can do.

[lolcat]

Would somebody who has the collection be willing to PM a download link?

[Batcathat]

Would somebody who has the collection be willing to PM a download link?

Probably not a good idea, since the forum rules apply to PMs as well, if I remember correctly.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Batcathat
Probably not a good idea, since the forum rules apply to PMs as well, if I remember correctly.

They do indeed.


Originally Posted by Wildstag
I guess all that remains is petitioning the WotC staff to bring it back.

Another approach occurred to me—if we could get an article about this placed on a gaming site, or someone’s gaming blog, that might draw enough attention to the issue for someone at WotC to at least take another look.

A few random emails to their website and a couple of Twitter questions aren’t enough to get noticed. But a blog post, YouTube video or something like that might be a different story.

I don’t know the online gaming scene well enough to know who or what would be the best outlet, but I’d say it’s worth a try.

[Doctor Despair]

Maybe someone could try to get it to blow up on r/HobbyDrama? That subreddit is fairly popular iirc

[Elves]

We tried that as part of the previous thread, with a number of people submitting comments to the website and others trying to reach out directly to key employees.

Several of us received rather bland brush-offs, and I don’t think the employees responded at all. I’ll miss having the material available, and I’d still pay money for a collection, but unless someone is able to organize a large-scale and very effective petition, I don’t think there’s much else we can do.

Remove all traces of the past. There has only ever been and only ever will be 5e. All hail its eternal glorious gilded reign. It is the perfect system. It is the Sun.

[Wildstag]

Remove all traces of the past. There has only ever been and only ever will be 5e. All hail its eternal glorious gilded reign. It is the perfect system. It is the Sun.

I could have sworn they tried that attitude in the 4e days and it blew up on them.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Doctor Despair
Maybe someone could try to get it to blow up on r/HobbyDrama?

Never heard of it, but worth a try.

[Scots Dragon]

I could have sworn they tried that attitude in the 4e days and it blew up on them.

Wizards of the Coast really needs to stop completely discarding previous lore.

Also give Mordenkainen his hair back.

[Zanos]

I could have sworn they tried that attitude in the 4e days and it blew up on them.
Mostly because 4e was dead on arrival.

[Thurbane]

Yeah, the "celebrity revival" of D&D seems to have really hitched it's wagon to 5E.

Understandable WotC don't really care about some disgruntled 3E fans any more...

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Thurbane
Yeah, the "celebrity revival" of D&D seems to have really hitched it's wagon to 5E.

What do you mean by “celebrity revival” here?


Originally Posted by Doctor Despair
Maybe someone could try to get it to blow up on r/HobbyDrama?

On second thought, after looking at this…whatever it is, it’s probably not the best place to get Wizards to take something seriously.

[Thurbane]

What do you mean by “celebrity revival” here?

Critical Role, Joe Manganiello, Satine Phoenix etc.

D&D's mainstream resurgence seems to have coincided with 5E, maybe late 4E, by my reckoning.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYrp6qfXrBM

[Palanan]

Ah, okay. I’ve only heard of those people through references here in the Playground.

On a smaller scale, 1 For All also uses 5E, although they usually only mention mechanics in passing.

[Zanos]

Yeah, the "celebrity revival" of D&D seems to have really hitched it's wagon to 5E.
Yes, 5e is a far more friendly format to being picked up by less invested groups.


[Understandable WotC don't really care about some disgruntled 3E fans any more...
They don't even sell products for 3.5 fans. So yeah, they care so little they won't even take money from us.

[PhoenixPhyre]

Yes, 5e is a far more friendly format to being picked up by less invested groups.


They don't even sell products for 3.5 fans. So yeah, they care so little they won't even take money from us.

You can still buy 3e pdfs of rulebooks from DMs Guild, which is officially licensed and owned by WotC. So they do sell 3e material. And 2e material for that matter.

[Feldar]

Remove all traces of the past. There has only ever been and only ever will be 5e. All hail its eternal glorious gilded reign. It is the perfect system. It is the Sun.

Until 6E comes along...

[Thurbane]

https://i.imgur.com/aCwUvNT.jpg

[Elves]

Until 6E comes along...
Trust me they are never going to make any change as radical as 4e again. They got burned bad on that one.

4e was already their sort of stab at becoming mainstream (at that time, in the age of MMOs). Now that they've basically achieved that there's no reason to take risks.

[Wildstag]

https://i.imgur.com/aCwUvNT.jpg

There's 4e fans in the playground! At least a couple handfuls!


Trust me they are never going to make any change as radical as 4e again. They got burned bad on that one.

4e was already their sort of stab at becoming mainstream (at that time, in the age of MMOs). Now that they've basically achieved that there's no reason to take risks.

The game was never an attempt to emulate MMOs, and the aspects of it that people hated the most (at-will, encounter, and daily powers) still live on in 5e, just with different names. Encounter powers reset after a short rest and daily powers after a long rest. 5e kept those mechanics and just reworded it. The whole "controller, striker, leader, defender" was just a rewording of the AD&D-era "fighter, mage, cleric, thief". Those roles had always existed, but were reworded to provide players inspiration for playstyle.

The quote people use for the whole "IT'S CLEARLY BASED OFF OF MMORPGS" argument was about inspiration, not an intent to copy wholesale the feel of MMOs. The VTT that was supposed to ship with 4e was also intended to be like what Roll20 became, but with as much integration as 5e now has with roll20.
Collins admitted that 4th edition was influenced by MMOs but was quick to point out that the design took inspiration from many contemporary sources.

Honestly, I still think the big issue was marketing, not the actual feel of the game. Because basically every aspect of the game was direct evolution from 3e or prior mechanics and a majority of aspects have been directly carried over to 5e under a new name. It almost HAS to be the aesthetics after a certain point, and that just seems... I dunno... superficial? Anyways, I digress.

[Mechalich]

Honestly, I still think the big issue was marketing, not the actual feel of the game. Because basically every aspect of the game was direct evolution from 3e or prior mechanics and a majority of aspects have been directly carried over to 5e under a new name. It almost HAS to be the aesthetics after a certain point, and that just seems... I dunno... superficial? Anyways, I digress.

Don't forget the fluff. A very large portion of the TTRPG marketplace cares more about the fluff than the crunch (especially because tables often completely ignore a huge proportion of the crunch anyway, one of the reasons for 5e's success is that it essentially codified this as a practice), and 4e made structural changes that detonated huge chunks of the fluff, to the point that the conversion from 3e to 4e necessitated blowing apart the Forgotten Realms - by the far the most successful setting - and replacing it with something no one cared about.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Mechalich
….to the point that the conversion from 3e to 4e necessitated blowing apart the Forgotten Realms - by the far the most successful setting - and replacing it with something no one cared about.

I looked through the 4E FRCS when it first came out, and what struck me was just how much fun they had nuking their own setting. I was running a campaign in the Realms at the time, and while their future timeline was mildly entertaining, I had no intention of switching over.

Also, the 4E FRCS was absolutely pathetic in terms of presentation. Maps and layout were ghastly, visual design looked like someone threw it together over a long weekend in their parents’ basement. It was a vertical drop in editorial quality compared to the 3.0 FRCS, to the point that it was just ugly to look at.

[Elves]

4e FR was the best setting WOTC ever published btw.

[H_H_F_F]

There's 4e fans in the playground! At least a couple handfuls!

The game was never an attempt to emulate MMOs, and the aspects of it that people hated the most (at-will, encounter, and daily powers) still live on in 5e, just with different names. Encounter powers reset after a short rest and daily powers after a long rest. 5e kept those mechanics and just reworded it. The whole "controller, striker, leader, defender" was just a rewording of the AD&D-era "fighter, mage, cleric, thief". Those roles had always existed, but were reworded to provide players inspiration for playstyle.

The quote people use for the whole "IT'S CLEARLY BASED OFF OF MMORPGS" argument was about inspiration, not an intent to copy wholesale the feel of MMOs. The VTT that was supposed to ship with 4e was also intended to be like what Roll20 became, but with as much integration as 5e now has with roll20.

Honestly, I still think the big issue was marketing, not the actual feel of the game. Because basically every aspect of the game was direct evolution from 3e or prior mechanics and a majority of aspects have been directly carried over to 5e under a new name. It almost HAS to be the aesthetics after a certain point, and that just seems... I dunno... superficial? Anyways, I digress.

I don't know, man. My group at the time switched to 4e. Everyone was very excited, and we were teenagers who didn't speak English and weren't envolved with the community. We gave up 4E shortly after, not because "Collins addmitted it was basically an MMO", because we didn't know or care about that. We left it because it felt like trash. The casters didn't feel like casters, the martials didn't feel like martials, and the simulationist feel was gone for all of us. Say what you will about 5E, it does not feel like that.

[Feldar]

Trust me they are never going to make any change as radical as 4e again. They got burned bad on that one.

Yeah, you may have missed my point there.

[Scots Dragon]

Don't forget the fluff. A very large portion of the TTRPG marketplace cares more about the fluff than the crunch (especially because tables often completely ignore a huge proportion of the crunch anyway, one of the reasons for 5e's success is that it essentially codified this as a practice), and 4e made structural changes that detonated huge chunks of the fluff, to the point that the conversion from 3e to 4e necessitated blowing apart the Forgotten Realms - by the far the most successful setting - and replacing it with something no one cared about.

All of this. And it wasn't just the Forgotten Realms. It was basically everything.

At the time my experience with Dungeons & Dragons didn't include a regular gaming group, so I made do with character builds, fanfiction, and other such. And I enjoyed all that through the lens of the Forgotten Realms since I'd gotten into D&D through Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, and Neverwinter Nights.


4e FR was the best setting WOTC ever published btw.

I think you misspelled worst. It felt like they basically geared it to appease the non-fans of the Realms who liked to loudly complain about how powerful Elminster was but also how poorly built his stat block was on the forums.

Because that's actually an important thing to worry about for representing the lore of an established setting that's been going longer than D&D has existed. /s

[SpyOne]

I don't have any personal experience with 4th edition, but what I hear from others reminds me of New Coke. Or maybe Highlander 2.

In doing market research before releasing New Coke they conducted taste tests, and in those taste tests most people preferred New Coke to the traditional Coke (now called Coke Classic). But when asked "what if this was the new flavor of Coca-Cola", ten to twenty percent of test subjects became angry. If they had previously said they liked the new cola they changed their answer, and they tried to persuade others to change their answer.

Highlander 2 may be the worst sequel ever. but I had to agree with my brother when he said it was actually a pretty good movie. "I just have no idea why they called it Highlander 2". (All subsequent Highlander sequels have pretended it doesn't exist.)

There are a lot of people saying that 4th edition was actually a good system and unfairly maligned, but many of them also say it was very different from previous editions. And they say that both as a feature and a flaw.
Maybe trying to make it "the new D&D" made a bunch of people angry, many of whom would actually have preferred it to D&D if it had been called something else.

On the main topic: that Wizards treats the content of their forums as unimportant and the people who create it worse is not in any way news to me, and probably why I haven't read anything there in over a decade. Those forums exist only to serve WotC, and the people making decisions don't see maintaining an archive as serving that purpose, despite the fact that it does. People don't visit a library every day to check the day's newspaper, they visit for the books.

[Palanan]

Looks like the archives are permanently gone this time.

Has this even been noticed anywhere else? Or was the Playground the only place with a lingering memory of the 3.5 online material?

[thorr-kan]

It was noticed on rpg.net.

A few things have shown up for sale on DriveThruRPG.com from the archives.

[Jervis]

There's 4e fans in the playground! At least a couple handfuls!


There are at least 6, no, 7 of them out there

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by thorr-kan
A few things have shown up for sale on DriveThruRPG.com from the archives.

What in particular? Are they selling them page by page, or in themed bundles? Not sure how that would work.

[redking]

Since WotC maintains infrastructure for their web based ecosystem, keeping archives up costs them nothing and gets them plenty of good will. I cannot speculate as to the reasoning behind the deletion of their archives, but it could be that WotC believes that the archives could contain (not necessarily does contain) various racist, sexist, homophobic + other -isms content, and paying a team to go review and redact archived content that doesn't make WotC any money and isn't worth the effort and expense.

[Elves]

Since WotC maintains infrastructure for their web based ecosystem, keeping archives up costs them nothing and gets them plenty of good will. I cannot speculate as to the reasoning behind the deletion of their archives, but it could be that WotC believes that the archives could contain (not necessarily does contain) various racist, sexist, homophobic + other -isms content, and paying a team to go review and redact archived content that doesn't make WotC any money and isn't worth the effort and expense.

Rather, it sounds like they want to squeeze the content for pennies:

A few things have shown up for sale on DriveThruRPG.com from the archives.

[Wildstag]

You say that with such a negative connotation when literally the last two times this happened (before now), people (myself included) have proposed the alternative of "take it down, but sell a compendium of its info".

[Troacctid]

I don't see any new items from WotC on DriveThruRPG.

[Thurbane]

As far as I know, most of the "free" short adventures were taken off the archive website a long time back, and have been available for sale at DriveThruRPG.com and similar for quite some time...

[Gemini476]

Yeah, it seems like they've just been doing this in the background for a while.

For example:
Luck of the Draw on Dungeon Masters Guild (https://www.dmsguild.com/product/284668/Luck-of-the-Draw-35) (Date Added: 2021-06-18)
Luck of the Draw on their old website, via the Internet Archive (https://web.archive.org/web/20201229102028/http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd%2Fwe%2F20060919a) (PDF link is there, but dead)

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Thurbane
As far as I know, most of the "free" short adventures were taken off the archive website a long time back, and have been available for sale at DriveThruRPG.com and similar for quite some time..

The free modules have been gone for years, but I’m concerned with all the items and features that were still on the online archive—articles like Vicious Venues, the consolidated lists, pretty much everything that could be found here (https://web.archive.org/web/20210210145811/http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/archives).

As I said earlier in the thread, we need to make this more visible. There’s got to be a blogger, YouTube channel, someone who could pick this up and make the case to a wider audience. At the very least, a PDF bundle of the most popular items, but a hardback in the style of the MIC would be great for those of us who cherish our gaming shelves. I'd pay for that, and I'm sure there are plenty of others who would too.

.

[Scots Dragon]

The free modules have been gone for years, but I’m concerned with all the items and features that were still on the online archive—articles like Vicious Venues, the consolidated lists, pretty much everything that could be found here (https://web.archive.org/web/20210210145811/http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/archives).

As I said earlier in the thread, we need to make this more visible. There’s got to be a blogger, YouTube channel, someone who could pick this up and make the case to a wider audience. At the very least, a PDF bundle of the most popular items, but a hardback in the style of the MIC would be great for those of us who cherish our gaming shelves. I'd pay for that, and I'm sure there are plenty of others who would too.

.

Note that the Wayback Machine link there works so that material is still accessible.

[thorr-kan]

Note that the Wayback Machine link there works so that material is still accessible.
A lot of the downloadable files are not available.

[thorr-kan]

Has anybody actually contacted WotC?

Last two times, it was server migration issues. But somebody asked.

I have not contacts there, so I have not.

[Thurbane]

The free modules have been gone for years, but I’m concerned with all the items and features that were still on the online archive—articles like Vicious Venues, the consolidated lists, pretty much everything that could be found here (https://web.archive.org/web/20210210145811/http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/archives).

As I said earlier in the thread, we need to make this more visible. There’s got to be a blogger, YouTube channel, someone who could pick this up and make the case to a wider audience. At the very least, a PDF bundle of the most popular items, but a hardback in the style of the MIC would be great for those of us who cherish our gaming shelves. I'd pay for that, and I'm sure there are plenty of others who would too.

.

Oh, I know a lot of stuff has been lost - I was more replying to the fact that some web stuff was now up for sale at various sites, and that it wasn't a particularly new development...

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by thorr-kan
Has anybody actually contacted WotC?

Yes, we have.

Last time this happened, several of us sent polite messages to WotC, and were either ignored or received formulaic brush-offs. Someone claimed to have contacted a developer on social media, maybe, but if they did it never went anywhere.

Which is why I keep saying we need to find someone with more reach to make the case that the web archive should be available for purchase. There’s gotta be some gaming podcast or YouTuber who could do an episode on this—which could then be posted to social media and make a stir, at least in the gaming community.

[Jervis]

Yes, we have.

Last time this happened, several of us sent polite messages to WotC, and were either ignored or received formulaic brush-offs. Someone claimed to have contacted a developer on social media, maybe, but if they did it never went anywhere.

Which is why I keep saying we need to find someone with more reach to make the case that the web archive should be available for purchase. There’s gotta be some gaming podcast or YouTuber who could do an episode on this—which could then be posted to social media and make a stir, at least in the gaming community.

At Matt Mercer on Twitter maybe? He’s basically the WotC CEO at this point. One retweet and it comes back

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Jervis
At Matt Mercer on Twitter maybe? He’s basically the WotC CEO at this point. One retweet and it comes back

I don’t follow Twitter, so not entirely sure what your last phrase means.

Can you and/or others contact him?

[Wildstag]

Yes, we have.

Last time this happened, several of us sent polite messages to WotC, and were either ignored or received formulaic brush-offs. Someone claimed to have contacted a developer on social media, maybe, but if they did it never went anywhere.

Which is why I keep saying we need to find someone with more reach to make the case that the web archive should be available for purchase. There’s gotta be some gaming podcast or YouTuber who could do an episode on this—which could then be posted to social media and make a stir, at least in the gaming community.

In the 2020 thread I'd shared that I reached out to Crawford and the other members of the 5e team that also worked in the 3.5 days. I never got a response from any of them, which was a bummer tbh.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Jervis
At Matt Mercer on Twitter maybe? He’s basically the WotC CEO at this point.

Looks like Cynthia Williams is the new CEO, as announced yesterday (https://icv2.com/articles/news/view/50343/new-ceo-hasbro-wizards-coast-digital-gaming). She doesn't seem to have any ties to TTRPGs.

So if Matt Mercer is still around, he may still be the best one to contact. Question is whether anyone will.

[Wildstag]

Looks like Cynthia Williams is the new CEO, as announced yesterday (https://icv2.com/articles/news/view/50343/new-ceo-hasbro-wizards-coast-digital-gaming). She doesn't seem to have any ties to TTRPGs.

So if Matt Mercer is still around, he may still be the best one to contact. Question is whether anyone will.

I think you may have missed some sarcasm/non-seriousness from Jervis. Matt Mercer doesn't work for WotC, he's just got enough sway with the design team from his Critical Role work that he might be able to weasel out a response.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Wildstag
I think you may have missed some sarcasm/non-seriousness from Jervis.

Evidently I did, and if that was his contribution then it wasn’t helpful. Matt Mercer is just another name to me, and I didn’t see any reason not to take Jervis’ statement at face value.

It doesn’t sound like anyone here is really interested in taking the kind of action necessary to make a difference. I’ve made what suggestions I can, but without engagement from anyone else, soon enough this gaming resource will be permanently lost and forgotten.

[Gemini476]

It's been backed up by third parties (who can't be linked here because, of course, copyright), it's far from being "permanently lost and forgotten".

[Jervis]

Evidently I did, and if that was his contribution then it wasn’t helpful. Matt Mercer is just another name to me, and I didn’t see any reason not to take Jervis’ statement at face value.

It doesn’t sound like anyone here is really interested in taking the kind of action necessary to make a difference. I’ve made what suggestions I can, but without engagement from anyone else, soon enough this gaming resource will be permanently lost and forgotten.

I mean the guy’s name is pretty ubiquitous in TRPG circles. He’s very arguable the reason 5E is as popular as it is, that’s why his homebrew setting has more officially published material than dark sun. The CEO bit was a joke but the bit about him saying something is only half a joke. These days writing letters is pointless, Twitter outrage and celebrities saying things while sitting on the toilet is the only way to get things done

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Gemini476
It's been backed up by third parties (who can't be linked here because, of course, copyright)….

No idea who this might be. I certainly can’t access it, and right now the official archives are gone, which means a lot of people have no access to that material.

[H_H_F_F]

No idea who this might be. I certainly can’t access it, and right now the official archives are gone, which means a lot of people have no access to that material.

Anything that didn't need to be downloaded can still be used with the waybackmachine, and will remain so for the forseeable future. Everything else is backed up by a few people here, and perhaps one day they'll be able to put it out there.

It'll be great if we can get the archives back online, and it'll be good if someone could get Wizard's consent to hosting it privately. But things are alright as is, thanks to the Internet Archive Org.

[Bohandas]

This kind of thing is the reason why I now save local copies of absolutely everything I view online

[Max Caysey]

Yes, we have.

Last time this happened, several of us sent polite messages to WotC, and were either ignored or received formulaic brush-offs. Someone claimed to have contacted a developer on social media, maybe, but if they did it never went anywhere.

Which is why I keep saying we need to find someone with more reach to make the case that the web archive should be available for purchase. There’s gotta be some gaming podcast or YouTuber who could do an episode on this—which could then be posted to social media and make a stir, at least in the gaming community.

I have in the past tried to get hold of Skip Williams on both social networks and emails… I never heard anything… but that has basically been the theme for all contact aimed at former TSR or WotC employees… dead silence. Even trying to use Candleekeep forum has failed me… so I have no hope!

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by H_H_F_F
Anything that didn't need to be downloaded can still be used with the waybackmachine, and will remain so for the forseeable future.

People thought everything would be on the online archive for the foreseeable future, too.

It’s not unreasonable that some folks would prefer a reliable personal copy—since, as noted on the first page of this thread, the Wayback machine isn’t always available itself.


Originally Posted by Max Caysey
I have in the past tried to get hold of Skip Williams on both social networks and emails… I never heard anything… but that has basically been the theme for all contact aimed at former TSR or WotC employees… dead silence. Even trying to use Candleekeep forum has failed me… so I have no hope!

I appreciate your trying. Not sure what role he plays in the company these days, but any attempt is better than none.

[H_H_F_F]

People thought everything would be on the online archive for the foreseeable future, too.

It’s not unreasonable that some folks would prefer a reliable personal copy—since, as noted on the first page of this thread, the Wayback machine isn’t always available itself.

I agree, and as I said it would be better. All I'm saying is that as of right now, no one has lost their access.

[Max Caysey]

I appreciate your trying. Not sure what role he plays in the company these days, but any attempt is better than none.

Indeed... Its years since I tried last, but I believe he was lead game designer for both 4th and 5th at some point...

[Thurbane]

I can't see it ever happening, but if WotC ever released a compendium of online only material (classes, feats, spells, monsters, items etc.), it would definitely sell.

Same if they printed a compendium of the short online adventures.

Ah well, we can dream...

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Thurbane
I can't see it ever happening, but if WotC ever released a compendium of online only material (classes, feats, spells, monsters, items etc.), it would definitely sell.

Same if they printed a compendium of the short online adventures.

Definitely agree. In terms of production cost, it’s probably the least effort for guaranteed return of anything they could do. One editor and a graphic designer could probably put it together in a couple of weeks.

Seems self-evident, but finding who to make the case to is the catch.

[Thane of Fife]

Same if they printed a compendium of the short online adventures.

Ah well, we can dream...

If you're speaking of the adventures I'm thinking of (Dark and Stormy Knight, etc), I think they sell PDFs of all of them on dmsguild.

[Thurbane]

If you're speaking of the adventures I'm thinking of (Dark and Stormy Knight, etc), I think they sell PDFs of all of them on dmsguild.

True, but imagine having them all collected in a physical hardcover, with a WotC logo on the front :smallbiggrin:

[Gemini476]

They're not going to be selling physical hardcovers of miscellaneous 3E adventures anytime soon, I don't think. Maybe they'll do another reprint of the core books for some anniversary, alongside a reprint of The Sunless Citadel or something, but not just random books.

Print on demand, on the other hand...

[martixy]

The web archive still works.

Otherwise we have a thread dedicated to archiving:
https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?516043-Archiving-the-D-amp-D-3-5-Archives-Consolidation-efforts-for-posterity&p=21727880#post21727880

A few other forum members definitely have relevant links in their signatures with similar efforts, but I don't know which.

I also have some unorganized archive stuff saved up that I can probably find a place to put up somewhere.

[Malphegor]

It… looks like SOMEBODY’s getting access to em as I noticed one of the psionic acf pages recently got snapshotted on the web archive. So… Somebody’s getting access relatively recently. Or it was from a page that was already loaded before they broke.

[Feldar]

+1 to the "would pay for this" list.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Dunno if anyone's linked it yet, but you can find most, if not all, of the links to the original (archived) stuff here (http://bg-archive.minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=1109.80), which you can then use to look up the backups on the Wayback Machine here (https://archive.org/web/).

[edit] Oh, and more here (http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=16432.0).