TheoryCrafting: What subclass features would you love to see on a different class?

[Wasp]

Hi everyone

I was wondering what subclass features you would love to take on a different class? Like a specific fighter subclass feature on a ranger or vice versa?

Of course this would need quite a lot of fiddling in reality to make it work, as different classes have different level breakdowns for subclass features and some (sub)classes are more front loaded than others or rely on main class features to actually work but just as a wild idea, if subclass features were a bit more like feats and you could mix and match, what features would you love to take for different main classes?*

Cheers

Wasp

*) Or alternatively: Which subclass features (including the ones from your main class) would you love to mix and match on which class?

[Kane0]

Kensei on Fighter
Arcane Archer on Ranger

[SLOTHRPG95]

Most of Champion's abilities (everything but the additional fighting style) would fit great on Barbarian, both mechanically and thematically.

[Darc_Vader]

Horizon Walker’s Distant Strike on Shadow Monk because I like teleporting everywhere.

[Saelethil]

I would love to see most of Swashbuckler on a Fighter and I feel like thematically the Sorcerer and Warlock subclasses should be interchangeable between the two.

[MrStabby]

There are a few that I think could be interesting.

Something like natural recovery on a more magically themed ranger. Half your level in spells actually goes quite a long way on a half-caster. I could see this working well with other magical themed subclass features from other classes like magical ambush or extra magical secrets.


Rune knight has a lot of stuff that would fit well on most martial classes. The runes could go on monk and play up the written word which goes nicely with a monastic feel. On a barbarian it feels as natural as a fighter (and would give them something to do whilst not raging). On a paladin (assuming a shift to charisma as casting stat) these would be a bit overpowered, but good fun.

Now weird as it sounds, I think something like the arcane trickster or eldritch knight spellcasting on a warlic would be an excellent addition - you get some bonus long rest spell slots as well as short rest slots so you can have a few low level spells as well as the higher level ones. This would also provide some thematic continuiy as thsoe spells you were using at levels 1 and 2 don't just all get forgoten at higher levels.

Extra attack would work well on the cleric, again a bit too strong, especially if the bladesinger version. For that matter imagine it as something from a warlock patron - you could be pact of the tome and have two attacks and one of them be substituted for an eldritch blast. Of course, if it didn't feel so unnatural this would arguably be good on the rogue as well - pick up a cantrip from somewhere and blast and stab with sneak attack on the same turn - more silly than something I would loe to see though.

[Amnestic]

Beastmaster on Druid.

3.5 era they had an animal companion, and mechanically there's nothing in the subclass that requires ranger features. If anything it might be stronger on druid than ranger.

[Mitchellnotes]

Beastmaster on Druid.

3.5 era they had an animal companion, and mechanically there's nothing in the subclass that requires ranger features. If anything it might be stronger on druid than ranger.

Came here to say this

[MrStabby]

I think I might want to add twinned enchantment to the bard. I have always thought of the bard as the class leaning more towards specialising in enchantment than the wizard and it seemed a little odd that this didn't seem reflected in the expertise of at least one subclass.

With theme in mind, I would also like to see another take on a fey themed druid - porting the fey warlock abilities over would be pretty cool (including the bonus spell list).

[HPisBS]

Kensei on Fighter
Arcane Archer on Ranger

Arcane Archer Ranger. Yep. +1. 👍.

Tell ya what: Fighter can have Kensei if Monk can have Battle Master. (Maybe using the martial arts die instead of a special "maneuver" die.)

[Psyren]

I'll actually go in reverse - Ranger's Tireless class feature from Tasha's should be on the Berserker Barbarian subclass.

Astral Self Monk's ability to see in magical darkness should be on the Shadow Monk.
+1 to Beastmaster Druid, Wildfire shouldn't be our only option for a dedicated pet.

[Amechra]

Horizon Walker’s Distant Strike on Shadow Monk because I like teleporting everywhere.

I would love for the Monk to get Distant Strike in general.

...

On a more controversial note, I'd love to see the Sorcerer get Magical Secrets.

[Kane0]

Arcane Archer Ranger. Yep. +1. 👍.

Tell ya what: Fighter can have Kensei if Monk can have Battle Master. (Maybe using the martial arts die instead of a special "maneuver" die.)

Fair. Hell if fighter gets a few ki to spend on kensei powers then BM monk should get their own pool of superiority dice

[Mitchellnotes]

I would love for the Monk to get Distant Strike in general.

...

On a more controversial note, I'd love to see the Sorcerer get Magical Secrets.

Magical secrets on a sorc would be scary in all honesty. As it is, bonus lists with the ability to replace spells is already reallly scary. Metamagic with the ability to select any spell could create significant issues. As is, sorrcs are the "strong power, limited breadth" class, adding to the depth with being able to pick any spell would be very strong.

I have a hard time considering what else would be good on sorcs, wizards, or clerics. It'd be nice to see a variety of familiar options, but its hard to see that without stepping on warlocks.

[Psyren]

Magical Secrets on a sorc would be a giant middle finger to the Divine Soul. Better to give all the sorcs list expansions with limited swappability like the last two got.

[Kane0]

Nah go whole hog, limited wish on sorc.

[Psyren]

Nah go whole hog, limited wish on sorc.

You know what, I would actually love if Wild Magic had gotten this. Perhaps in exchange for a wild magic surge or two. Certainly it would be way more exciting than the godawful Spell Bombardment.

[Arcturus]

Soulknife on Monk. Admittedly most of the features don’t translate as implemented, but it is a much better thematic fit.

Magical Secrets on warlock as a replacement for all of the “get spell X” invocations.

[Arcturus]

Arcane Archer on Ranger

This would be a great mechanical fit, especially if they used the N free uses + spend spell slots for additional uses mechanic for Arcane Shots.

[da newt]

BM maneuvers on a Rogue. If you only get 1 attack per round (usually) I'd like to pick and choose just the right 1 attack for max effect - everything about precision vs the I attack 11 times / turn ...

[BoutsofInsanity]

The two mid-range capstones of the Assassin subclass infiltration expertise and impostor are both incredible for the Assassin. A non-magical way of disguise and trickery that bypasses nearly all manner of magical detection? Sign me up.

But.

I really feel that the Thief Subclass could easily swap out Supreme Sneak and Use Magic Device and swap those to Assassin just as easily.

The Thief would transform into a gentleman spy like Locke Lamora and could infiltrate and steal with ease. The Assassin would instantly become an Assassin's Creed assassin with bonuses on stealth and using magical devices to kill their target.

I feel those abilities are interchangeable and should be swapped at the leisure of the player. I allow this when I DM.

[sethdmichaels]

Tell ya what: Fighter can have Kensei if Monk can have Battle Master. (Maybe using the martial arts die instead of a special "maneuver" die.)

(chanting) battlemaster monk! battlemaster monk!



also War Wizard's Arcane Deflection on a monk

[Lunali]

Sneak attack on monk

[f5anor]

I was wondering what subclass features you would love to take on a different class? Like a specific fighter subclass feature on a ranger or vice versa?

I think that 5e misses out on a lot of goodness by restricting the Battlemaster Maneuvers to that specific subclass. In fact, I believe that all combat related skills, that could realistically be trained without requirements for innate or other kinds of magic, should be available to all martial classes in some way.

An example is the Assasinate feature of the Rogue subclass. I commonly see builds that use this feature to increase nova damage, which requires to take 3 levels in Rogue. This is in my mind a very broken way to deal with the issue, after all this is a fighting technique that could be trained by anyone. Actually, classes such as the Fighter who exclusively focus on fighting techniques should arguably have easier access to such skills than Rogues, right?.

I would like to see all combat related skills be available as styles, feats, or any other mechanism that allows all (at least martial) classes to have access to them.

[f5anor]

On a more controversial note, I'd love to see the Sorcerer get Magical Secrets.

I would second that, I think its not reasonable that Sorcerers are limited to an inferior spell list.

In fact, the new subclasses already implement some kind of Magical Secrets in the form of Clockwork Magic and Psionic Spells, in the sense that the Sorcerer is allowed to freely select spells from the sorcerer, warlock, or wizard spell list, with only a limitation in the type of school.

I would prefer an option where the Sorcerer has free access to all magic. After all the Sorcerer is supposed to have native access to magic, not magic granted by someone else. It stands to reason that individual Sorcerers should have access to every conceivable type of spell.

[Phhase]

"Sorcerer" metamagic where it's supposed to be - on other spellcasting classes. Stupid hoarders.

[Kane0]

"Sorcerer" metamagic where it's supposed to be - on other spellcasting classes. Stupid hoarders.

So what do they get then?

[Lokishade]

I would love to see most of Swashbuckler on a Fighter and I feel like thematically the Sorcerer and Warlock subclasses should be interchangeable between the two.

I second this.

Swashbuckler fits both Fighter and Rogue thematically. If someone comes up with an interesting Swashbuckler subclass for Fighters, I would gladly jump in.

And whenever I try and reimagine classes, Sorcerer and Warlock just... blur into each other.

Sorcerers and Warlocks are very similar. They both have an external source of magic, but the Warlock has a person (cosmic or not) behind the power. Except the world of DnD is polytheistic, meaning EVERYTHING has a person (cosmic or not) behind the power.

[Darc_Vader]

On a more controversial note, I'd love to see the Sorcerer get Magical Secrets.

I’d almost rather see it on Warlocks. Maybe a hypothetical Int based one.


So what do they get then?

Everyone else should give their spontaneous casting back to Sorcerers in exchange.

[JLandan]

Beastmaster on Druid.

3.5 era they had an animal companion, and mechanically there's nothing in the subclass that requires ranger features. If anything it might be stronger on druid than ranger.

In my games I allow this, even though the features come in one level before the ranger. I also set the CR cap at 1/4 class level.

[JLandan]

Mix and match features is good way to overpower real fast.

Interchanging complete archetypes is very interesting though.

Fighter/Kensei... you would have to work out a ki point source
Monk/Zealot... have to replace rage requirement with something
Druid/Beastmaster... no work needed, better fit than ranger
Monk/Battlemaster... battlemaster is independant so no fixes needed
Paladin/Blattlemaster... ditto have to drop Oath
Cleric/Any... since it comes in at 1st, have to drop Domains and bring in archetype at 2nd or 3rd
Sorcerer/Any... ditto but drop Bloodline
Wizard/Otherwordly Patron... bring it in at 2nd instead of Orders

Lotsa possibilities!

Just thought of another
Cleric/Divine Soul... could still come in at 1st drop Domain

[Kane0]

Fighter/Kensei... you would have to work out a ki point source


4 per rest like the BM, scaling with one more at 7 and 15.
Or if that is too much, prof bonus or half prof bonus per SR.

[Phhase]

Everyone else should give their spontaneous casting back to Sorcerers in exchange.
Hell, maybe!

So what do they get then?

You get nothing! You LOSE! Good DAY sir!

...more subclass features I guess, to make them actually unique. Metamagic belongs to the people!

[Yakmala]

Draconic Sorcerer features on a Warlock in the form of a Dragon Patron.

Scout features on a Ranger.

Swashbuckler features on a Fighter (Duelist).

[Hael]

Bladesinger or hexblade like features on a sorcerer.

[Leon]

Beastmaster on Druid.

3.5 era they had an animal companion, and mechanically there's nothing in the subclass that requires ranger features. If anything it might be stronger on druid than ranger.

This. Its a better thematic fit on the Druid than the Ranger

[JLandan]

Hell, maybe!


You get nothing! You LOSE! Good DAY sir!

...more subclass features I guess, to make them actually unique. Metamagic belongs to the people!

There's a Sorcery bloodline... Communist!

[JLandan]

Bladesinger or hexblade like features on a sorcerer.

Hexblade Bloodline for a Sorcerer... gaining all the CHA mod goodness and proficiencies but giving up Pacts, Pact Magic and Invocations in favor of Metamagic and Sorcery Points. Might be giving up too much. Requires more thought.

Bladesinger Sorcerer... while Bladesinger has some great features, it's limited uses makes it suboptimal to me (others love it, though). It could work okay for Sorcerers, but it would need some tweeking. Since its Int mod driven, you would have to change it to Cha mod or just be MAD. Kicks in a 2nd level by Wizards, Sorcs' Bloodline start at 1st, have to make an adjustment for that.