Feral Template and HD, again

[Ruethgar]

So I was reading through the various debates regarding the Feral Tempalte and its Special Attacks being applicable to class HD as opposed to racial. It seems to hinge on “It gains the special attacks indicated in the row corresponding to its monster Hit Dice, plus all those in previous rows.” And while the book itself essentially defines monster HD=RHD and Improving Monsters in the SRD does the same, the sentence isn’t actually referencing anything on the table. The table only includes rows referencing Hit Dice not monster Hit Dice or RHD. It would be like a sentence saying “Wizards gain a metamagic feat for every Fighter bonus feat listed in their Wizard class advancement table.” Yes wizards get bonus feats, but not fighter bonus feats so it would do nothing. With that in mind, the only really relevant part to consider in the text is “A feral creature gains additional special attacks depending on its Hit Dice, as shown on the table below.” Which does reference an existing portion of the table.

[Anthrowhale]

Reading so that 'monster' is suppressed in the text seems like it's ignoring the authoritative part of the rules since text is generally regarded as superior to table. It seems better to instead fill in the table in a manner which is consistent with the text.

[Crake]

I don't think I've ever heard the argument classified in this manner. From my understanding, the argument is a question of whether the template is constantly checking for HD updates, or if it's a one-and-done deal. It checks once for your HD upon the template being applied, and grants you the appropriate abilities. Since it's an inherited template, it can never be applied after class HD, barring special circumstances like being applied through the savage species rituals, and as such, will never include racial HD in it's calculations.

Personally, I'm of the mind that unless a template says it applies to future effects, it is simply an instantaneous effect of sorts, and future changes to the character aren't retroactive. Things like "Change all HD to d12s" vs "change all current and future HD to d12s", one simply applies to the current circumstance, while the other one is applied retroactively to all future HD. The feral template doesn't say the creature continues to gain abilities as it gains more HD, so it doesn't.

[Doctor Despair]

I don't think I've ever heard the argument classified in this manner. From my understanding, the argument is a question of whether the template is constantly checking for HD updates, or if it's a one-and-done deal. It checks once for your HD upon the template being applied, and grants you the appropriate abilities. Since it's an inherited template, it can never be applied after class HD, barring special circumstances like being applied through the savage species rituals, and as such, will never include racial HD in it's calculations.

Personally, I'm of the mind that unless a template says it applies to future effects, it is simply an instantaneous effect of sorts, and future changes to the character aren't retroactive. Things like "Change all HD to d12s" vs "change all current and future HD to d12s", one simply applies to the current circumstance, while the other one is applied retroactively to all future HD. The feral template doesn't say the creature continues to gain abilities as it gains more HD, so it doesn't.

So templates like Half-Fiend or Phrenic wouldn't give you the advanced abilities when you level up in your opinion?

[Ruethgar]

Eh, gold is easy to manage and if you’ve bought off a template it just costs 1k to refresh a template.