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Greywander
2022-01-16, 03:34 PM
A lot of RPGs, both tabletop and video game, tend to focus on combat almost to the exclusion of other aspects of adventuring. So a lot of these other aspects tend to be heavily abstracted or outright handwaved away so that players can just focus on the combat.

What I'm curious about is if we had a realistic portrayal/simulation of an adventuring party, what would be some of the essential roles you'd want to be filled in that party? Off the top of my head, here are some that I can think of:

Ranger/Outdoorsman

A lot of adventuring involves traveling into or through wilderness environments, so it makes sense to bring along a wilderness survival expert. Someone who knows how to hunt and forage, how to find good spots to set up camp, how to avoid dangerous predators and environmental hazards, how to weather extreme conditions, and how to not get lost in the wilderness. The ranger's job is to essentially see the party safely from one end of the wilderness to the other.

Cartographer/Navigator

Unless you plan to stay in the same general area, you're probably engaging in a lot of overland (or oversea) travel. The cartographer's job is to identify the best route from point A to point B, and insure the party stays on that path. A cartographer doesn't just read maps, they can also use tools to calculate with great accuracy the party's position using the positions of the stars. We can also expect them to be able to use surveying tools in order to calculate accurate distances to visible landmarks.

It might seem like there's some overlap between the cartographer and the ranger, and honestly, there is. But in the simplest terms, the cartographer is the one who chooses the route, and the ranger makes sure you don't get lost along the way.

Healer/Doctor

Healing, damage, and hit points are often treated as game abstractions, and don't have any real tangible impact on your characters. But in a more realistic simulation, we have to acknowledge that adventuring is an extremely dangerous profession. Even if we exclude combat, your typical adventuring locals are rarely OSHA-compliant. You will get beaten, stabbed, burned, suffer accidents, break bones, get sick, eat something poisonous, inhale noxious fumes, and who knows whatever else. The healer's job is to keep the party healthy in a profession that actively works against that goal.

Cook

The life of an adventurer is rarely one of luxury, so it can be the simple, everyday things that make it tolerable or intolerable. Trail rations are fine, but they're also generally more expensive than fresh food, and not usually as tasty. The cook's job is to keep the party healthy and strong, and to lift their spirits with good food. In a profession that consists of 99% walking and 1% life-or-death struggles, it can help greatly with moral when the party is looking forward to their next meal.

In many ways, the healer and cook are two parts of a whole. The healer is reactive, working to restore injuries that have already happened, while the cook is proactive, keeping the party at maximum health and fitness so they don't get injured in the first place.

Entertainer

Like with the cook, the entertainer's job is to improve moral by alleviating the monotony that often comes with long distance travel. Singing, games, storytelling, and other such things can help the party to enjoy themselves and have a good time, so that they're not dwelling on how dangerous their profession is and how they should probably quite while they're ahead. Some might consider this an optional role, but those who do should prepare themselves for a slow descent into madness.

Armorer

Although combat does make up a relatively small part of adventuring, it's also the one thing that differentiates it from mere hiking. As such, it's important to insure that your equipment remains in good condition, as your life will depend on it. An armorer has the skill and tools to mend and repair broken weapons, armor, and gear, and to keep it top condition at all times. When something breaks, you often don't have the luxury of going to the nearest town to get it repaired before you need it again.

Animal Handler

Mounts to ride on, draft animals to haul equipment or treasure, trained animals such as dogs to fight alongside you, an adventuring party has many uses for animals. And with those uses comes a need for someone who can care for those animals, making sure they remain fit and healthy and under control.

That's all I can think of at the moment. Knowing about roles like these can help you roleplay when not in combat, so that non-combat time can be just as or even more interesting as combat. What are some other roles that would be important for an adventuring party?

mucat
2022-01-16, 04:50 PM
Diplomat

This "party face" already plays a key role in many rulesets, but it's worth mentioning in any breakdown of noncombat skills you'd want in an adventuring troupe. Someone to make friends with the locals, interpret the guidance they might offer, smooth over inevitable misunderstandings, and make sure all those other noncombat roles stay noncombat.


Quartermaster / Camp Manager

For anything beyond the smallest expedition team, handling logistics becomes a key job in itself. Key supplies need to (a) exist in the first place, (b) be of top quality and in good repair, and (c) be ready where and when they are needed. A smooth-running camp at the end of an exhausting day can determine whether the next day will be a miserable experience.


Scientist

If one of the purposes of the journey is exploration and discovery, then you'll need people who understand what it is you've just discovered. The outdoorsman might be able to tell you what roots are safe to eat, but the botanist knows the difference between "I'm not familiar with this plant" and "Nobody is familiar with this plant, because it's a new discovery!" Depending on the scope and nature of the expedition, you'll want several of these; a naturalist, an archaeologist, and a geologist would be a good starter set. And maybe an engineer to macgyver your way past unexpected obstacles. Of course, these same people might also hold your Doctor, Outdoorsman, Navigator, or Armorer gigs.

Brother Oni
2022-01-16, 05:13 PM
Most of these roles won't be applicable to a small adventuring party as they have to move fast. Unless the party already has a ranger or some other outdoors type, you'd have a temporary guide and maybe a camp follower or two for the whole party. The camp followers would do everything from setting up camp, cooking, laundry, clothes repair, armour cleaning, basic first aid, etc.

They wouldn't be able to do all the things you mention, like armourer - the camp follower simply wouldn't have the know how to do more than basic repairs.

In order to need all those roles, you need more active combatants for them to support. In modern military terms, this ratio of combatant to support unit is known as the tooth to tail ratio or T3R. Typical medieval armies had a T3R of about 1:1, that is, for every soldier, there was a camp follower or some other hanger-on.

Once you start getting into the free company size, you're going to have pretty much everything you can think that a normal town would have, from everything you've mentioned (although blacksmith rather than armourer) to fletchers, coopers, carters, brewers, barber/dentist, wranglers, brewers, etc. Some of the larger armies even had brothels that followed the soldiers around.

That said, often the camp followers were the wives and children of the soldiers and followed their partners around.

Greywander
2022-01-16, 06:33 PM
Diplomat

Quartermaster / Camp Manager

Scientist
These are all pretty good. Adventurers can be... uncouth. Scoundrels. Vagabonds. (A reputation not always ill-deserved; see 'murderhobo'.) So having someone help talk your way past authority figures make reticent civilians open up to you would be pretty useful. I can't believe I forgot a quartermaster role, as that's pretty important. The scientist seems like it might be more specific to the particular quest, and might be more like a temporary NPC companion, rather than a permanent member of the party, but that doesn't mean there isn't value in having someone like that in the party.


Most of these roles won't be applicable to a small adventuring party as they have to move fast. Unless the party already has a ranger or some other outdoors type, you'd have a temporary guide and maybe a camp follower or two for the whole party. The camp followers would do everything from setting up camp, cooking, laundry, clothes repair, armour cleaning, basic first aid, etc.

[...]

That said, often the camp followers were the wives and children of the soldiers and followed their partners around.
Good points. If you keep adding members to the party, eventually you would reach something the size of a small army, at which point you're no longer really a rag-tag bunch of adventurers, and more of a warband. I'd expect an adventuring party to try to be as efficient as possible: everyone can fight, since you need the firepower, and one person might wear multiple hats. For example, it's easy to see the same person being both the ranger, cartographer, and animal handler. Maybe the cook is also a doctor and quartermaster. And so on. Obviously, they won't be as skilled as someone dedicated to that specific craft, but if you're trying to keep the party small it's better to have someone who has at least modest skill in each of these areas rather than just a few people who are each only experts in one of these.

The tooth to tail ratio stuff is interesting. You'd think they'd have a higher ratio of soldiers, but I guess this just goes to show how critical logistics is. Without the proper support, an army simply can't function and will either have to give up and go home, or raid somewhere nearby for supplies or press the locals into service. That's not sustainable, almost like the inversion of a siege. It can buy them time, however, which might be all they need to re-establish their logistics or receive help from another army.

White Blade
2022-01-17, 03:19 AM
Chaplain - In a military context, a chaplain provides spiritual consolation but also moral guidance for difficult questions. Even in the case of IRL state atheists, the role of moral guide and morale boost to the troops was often assigned in the form of party officers. In a fantasy setting, a chaplain might also know important facts about the gods, know how to propitiate them, and also how to deal with cursed areas or possessed individuals.

Lawyer - There are rules in war, there are rules of property, there are rules for the transportation of property, and there are rules for who owns the loot. Somebody has to deal with all of that for your team of ronin commando archaeologists. Historical, feudal Europe was a maze of tariffs and taxes and allegiances - One that's hard to appreciate from the other side of the liberal revolutions. Someone who knows the laws and the exemptions and such will smooth life over for you.

Historian - Your team of ronin commando archaeologists are mostly interested in the loot of ancient ages, yes, but there are lots of people back home who might care about the Haunted Palace of the First King for other reasons. Bring along a historian to chronicle what they discover, since that giant ball that's chasing them down the hall is likely to destroy many priceless artifacts on the way.

Fence/Merchant Appraiser - Here's the thing. Ronin commando archaeologists probably don't know the value of the banner that they stole reclaimed from the Palace of the First King - Yes, the crown was the price of the letter of marquee that they used to loot the place, but they are allowed to sell most of the loot. But what's it worth? Who has an interest in 6th century nationalist artwork? Somebody's got to deal with turning the loot into profit, that somebody is an important part of your entourage.

Realistically, it's likely that players in the position of the traditional adventuring party are, effectively, the vanguard of a much larger operation. They clear and map ruins, they get certainly a majority of the "labor" cut of the profits (if for no other reason than that the characters need to have better kit for the next dungeon), and the rest of their merchant caravan smooths their way, clears the loot out after them, cleans it up, identifies it, and organizes the sale of the goods and/or property that has now accrued to them by right of conquest.

Brother Oni
2022-01-17, 08:47 AM
Good points. If you keep adding members to the party, eventually you would reach something the size of a small army, at which point you're no longer really a rag-tag bunch of adventurers, and more of a warband. I'd expect an adventuring party to try to be as efficient as possible: everyone can fight, since you need the firepower, and one person might wear multiple hats. For example, it's easy to see the same person being both the ranger, cartographer, and animal handler. Maybe the cook is also a doctor and quartermaster. And so on. Obviously, they won't be as skilled as someone dedicated to that specific craft, but if you're trying to keep the party small it's better to have someone who has at least modest skill in each of these areas rather than just a few people who are each only experts in one of these.

There's also simple economies of scale - you're not going to need a fletcher if you're just supporting one archer, so the party archer themselves are going to have to make/buy/scavenge their own arrows.

There's the Expedition series of video games where they enforce this sort of logistics, with your party members taking up various camp duties (cooking, sentry, hunting, equipment repairs, crafting etc).

It's also about the only game series I'm aware of where basic camp security is a necessity as getting jumped while asleep can potentially result in a TPK or a downwards death spiral as your injured party members can't fight as effectively, resulting in worse injuries in the next battle.

In my opinion, Mount and Blade represents about the upper limit that a warband can grow without requiring vast numbers of dedicated support staff.


The tooth to tail ratio stuff is interesting. You'd think they'd have a higher ratio of soldiers, but I guess this just goes to show how critical logistics is. Without the proper support, an army simply can't function and will either have to give up and go home, or raid somewhere nearby for supplies or press the locals into service. That's not sustainable, almost like the inversion of a siege. It can buy them time, however, which might be all they need to re-establish their logistics or receive help from another army.

Subsistence off the land or from the enemy is a time honoured tradition for armies, with even Sun Tzu's Art of War recommending that you get your army into enemy territory as quickly as possible. The English refined it down to fine art with chevauchee (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevauch%C3%A9e) during the 100 Years' War.

Even with stealing food and supplies from the enemy, you still need a place to store your loot and that would be the army's baggage train.


Going back to the T3R, medieval armies are very efficient by modern militaries - depending on the exact service, modern NATO forces range from a 1:5 to a 1:15 ratio of tooth to tail.

Looking at them in more detail does raise some explanation for the vastly increased tail ratios with everything already mentioned and all modern requirements like HR; the IDF are about the most efficient modern force with a 1:5 ratio, but they don't really 'play away' so to speak, so don't have a requirement to put forces into any sphere of influence within 24/48 hrs of notice.

Flight wings, especially on carriers, are about the most intensive ratio - think how many mechanics, flight crew, ops crew, etc on top of the regular cooks, laundry, etc are required to keep a pilot available for their mission.

The most efficient army in terms of T3R were the Romans with a ratio of 4:1, with 8 legionaries being supported by 2 non-combatant servants. Depending on how specialist the legionaries were (some may have also been masons or carpenters), the servants could either be simple grooms and servants or may have some skills in blacksmithing or carpentry themselves.

NichG
2022-01-17, 09:42 AM
Maybe look at something like the Lewis and Clark expedition journals to get a non-military take on what a team of explorers might look like? They did have some soldiers with them, but there's much more about stuff like 'we spent the day trying to get the boat unstuck - 3 miles traversed', about obtaining supplies and the conditions of the supplies (stuff getting ruined, needing to be salvaged), etc.

One thing that jumps out is how much gambling occurred throughout. There are lots of entries like 'a bunch of country men came down to win my crew's money, and lost all of theirs instead', shooting contests, etc along the way. And multiple days spent packing up goods, repairing boats, etc.

Satinavian
2022-01-17, 09:57 AM
Scout

You need someone who can do reconnaissance. Moving undetected, exploring the situation, give accurate reports, keeping the cool even when alone. Information is critical and getting what you need without exposing the whole group is extremely important. In pure urban or court settings you might call that roll "spy" instead.

Captain

Yes, many groups on various tables don't want to do that because of spotlight and power dynamics. Nevertheless it can be incredibly useful to have somone who has the authority to make final decisions and issue commands under pressure.


Obviously a lot of setting specific roles come to mind, mostly variants of expert for incredibly important setting element X.

Tanarii
2022-01-17, 10:29 AM
Link Boy
Someone on the team has to be responsible for holding the Torch, Lantern, or Light-spelled object. So ... which spell-caster has a free hand anyway?

Porter
Carries looted treasure. Usually the strongest team-member. Hopefully the DM doesn't notice that their Explorer's backpack is already over carrying capacity before they adventure even begins.

Manservant
Okay ... this one is probably an extra NPC. Or blow a cantrip slot on Prestidigitation and learn how to dress yourself.

Duff
2022-01-17, 09:08 PM
Another role in social situations is the "Radar". They have good sense motive and can pick whether the interaction is genuine etc.
Depending on the GM, the party's Face might be better at reading the other side's spokesperson since they're focused on each other. Then the radar is more about looking at the rest of the other group to see what's going on. Often helps to have good perception as well.
And "The Thug" - Helps to have good intimidate skill, but they improve whoever makes the intimidate roll by being scary. Maybe big, maybe a wild mage. Maybe they look crazy or weird
The mechanician - In D&D, this often has to be the rogue, other systems, not so much. The person who deals with traps and locks doesn't have to be the same person who scouts

Pauly
2022-01-18, 08:39 AM
Assuming a standard pseudo-medieval type world, and referring to roles that need to be filled and assuming a character can fill several different roles. I’ll keep my comments as system agnostic as possible.

Hunter- Fresh meat is very important. It will also come with supplementary skills such as tracking and knowledge of animal calls and what they signify. While it has some overlap with a scout it is a different skillset.

Gatherer - Being able to supplement your dry rations with fresh vegetables, while not as important as fresh meat, is a very handy ability.

Herbalist - Not just medicinal herbs, but other herbal uses from dyes to tanning agents will be useful at different points.

Boatsman - traveling by river or lake is often faster and safer than traveling overland. Having someone who can handle a boat and know how to avoid dangers is very important.

Anthropologist The diplomat can deal with civilized encounters, a different skillset is needed to deal with wild savages, often orcs or goblinoids in fantasy.

Door opener In a fantasy world you are going to deal with implausibly powerful locks and impractically deadly traps.

Lacco
2022-01-18, 09:34 AM
Got yourself a this fancy plate armor? Get yourself a Squire! They will polish it, help you don it, carry your sword and all that for a price of training in martial arts! (and food... and lodging...)

You say you have a horse? So you need a Groom to take care of it! Half the price of animal handler, but he will take care of the animal!

Feeling bored? Would prefer if your exploits had a proper media coverage? Get a Bard Troubadour! He'll compose poems about your victories, sing songs of your virtues and may even entertain you with a few jokes or some juggling during these long evenings in a camp!

Still got some money on your hands? Get a few Servants! These folks will prepare you a hot bath, build up your pavillion tent and will stand around, looking important while you entertain your guests!

Now if you travel around relatively civilized lands and want to meet up some royalty, you definitely need a Herald! They will tell you who is who - especially on the battlefield, where there is no place for introductions, and where you need to pick the right guy to fight - they not only know what the three pigs in the enemy knight's coat of arms mean - they should be able to tell you his cousin may be able to pay a hefty ransom! Also, can't really impress a countess if she is not introduced into your pavillion tent by a true and proper Herald!

So, now you have all these servants... but they tend to forget what temperature your bath should be or how you like your mutton served? Are they all talkative and ask a lot of irritating questions? Get a Steward! You don't have to talk to the servants when he does the talking for you!



Overall, lots of good stuff around here.

@Brother Oni: Mount & Blade: Warband is one of my favourite games, so I need to check up Expeditions (seems like it's right what I like). Thanks for the suggestion.

I always thought it was strange that most adventurers (save for the lowest levels) deal with all the stuff by themselves. I love the idea of retainers/henchmen, because I find the idea of a mage peeling potatoes rather strange. When I imagine a low level adventurer camp, I see a tent or two, few horses, and a barbarian washing his loincloth in a river, the ranger hunting for anything edible because they are all already irritated by the iron rations, the fighter cleaning his sword because it is already getting some rust, while the wizard tries to keep warm and read his book by the fire and the thief just tries to get some sleep before his first watch.

Now let's go few adventures later: the barbarian is enjoying some mead in his hide-covered tent that was built by his followers - a hand-picked "chosen ones" from his tribe, while ranger's apprentices compete with each other to get the best piece of meat in front of him, because the loser is on the fletcher duty for the week, the fighter is watching his squires preparing his armor and weapons for tomorrow's dungeon delve, while listening to the report from the guards and scouts he hired, ready to retire into his pavillion, and the mage is meditating in his own tent, guarded by an apprentice, who has just instructed his servants on tonight's dinner. Meanwhile, at the second part of the camp, the porters are playing cards with the off-duty guardsmen and the quartermaster, while hungrily watching the cook prepare tonight's grub.

I know, this is not D&D, because it's normal for the party to just carry the golden statues out of the forgotten temple by themselves. And higher level adventurers just teleport around.

But I'd like to play/GM an RPG like this.

Brother Oni
2022-01-18, 11:14 AM
Feeling bored? Would prefer if your exploits had a proper media coverage? Get a Bard Troubadour! He'll compose poems about your victories, sing songs of your virtues and may even entertain you with a few jokes or some juggling during these long evenings in a camp!

Although you'd have to be careful about what songs are sung, as it may range from a couple extra coin in rewards to people wanting to set you on fire due to your only slightly exaggerated (mis)deeds. :smalltongue:


Now let's go few adventures later: the barbarian is enjoying some mead in his hide-covered tent that was built by his followers - a hand-picked "chosen ones" from his tribe, while ranger's apprentices compete with each other to get the best piece of meat in front of him, because the loser is on the fletcher duty for the week, the fighter is watching his squires preparing his armor and weapons for tomorrow's dungeon delve, while listening to the report from the guards and scouts he hired, ready to retire into his pavillion, and the mage is meditating in his own tent, guarded by an apprentice, who has just instructed his servants on tonight's dinner. Meanwhile, at the second part of the camp, the porters are playing cards with the off-duty guardsmen and the quartermaster, while hungrily watching the cook prepare tonight's grub.

I know, this is not D&D, because it's normal for the party to just carry the golden statues out of the forgotten temple by themselves. And higher level adventurers just teleport around.

But I'd like to play/GM an RPG like this.

While it's a lot more work for the GM, I too, would like to play something like this. It gives a proper sense of progression, from a lone band of murder hobos to (in)famous adventuring company, all the way up to full blown rulers.

I know in the red box D&D, once you hit name level (9th), you picked up a title, the right to petition to build a new class specific building (castle/tower/temple/guild for fighters/wizards/cleric/thief, an outpost for the Dwarf/Elf/Halfling race, complete with major Artifact) and your fame started attracting henchmen (normally a level 3-5 member of the same class).

While the NPC was friendly, (they wanted to work for you after all), it was up to the players and how they treated their henchman/followers/other folks who lived in their home as to how loyal they were. In time, when your henchmen leveled up, they too could attract their own henchmen, so a Fighter could essentially start their own army, complete with class level NPCs that were all loyal to him or her.

I think it really helps with immersion for the players, that the world still carries on without them, if they have a supporting cast of NPCs, with their own cares and desires, as long as it doesn't interfere too much with the players, especially if they're not interested in the goings on of their hirelings.

For example, Robert the squire starting to hit it off with the Quartermaster's daughter and all the fumbling steps through working out whether they're dating or not, might be fun flavour for players (or a chance for them to roleplay and help/hinder the relationship), but it shouldn't extend to interparty warfare in the event that Robert gets her pregnant.

AceOfFools
2022-01-19, 01:54 PM
Some of these roles are going to be pretty setting depending.

The Hacker Weather it’s interfacing with on-site security features (ie opening doors), or gathering info before hand or covering tracks afterwards, if anything resembling an internet exists, you’re going to want someone who can deal with it.

The Mechanic Similar role, but for more mechanical tasks. Especially important when you either live on a vehicle, or you’re dealing with steampunk machinery all the time.

The Encyclopedia Sometimes, it really helps to have someone who understands whatever bit of esoteric knowledge about the things and people you’re interacting with. Can be multiple people, as adventurers need to all sorts of weird knowledge.

The Translator If you want to talk to locals, some one has to speak their language.

The Driver/Pilot Someone’s got to operate the car/ship to get you to where the adventure is. If the system allows cool vehicle combat, this might not be a fully non-combat roll.

The Money This might sound a bit like a joke, but having one character who goes deep into whatever resources background/perk the system allows often has huge impacts on what the party is capable off. I’ll never forget the party reaction when we were trying to figure out how to get access to a villian, and I said, “can my big resource purchase for this scenario be an amazing party he just wouldn’t want to miss?” Easiest infiltration ever.

Stonehead
2022-01-20, 01:49 PM
These are all great, I'd love to see a system where you get a "combat class" and a "non-combat class". No one would spec into "herbalist" if it's coming from the same resource pool as the abilities that keep them alive, but adding non-combat abilities would lead to much more interesting characters.

It's usually filled by a martial party member, but one non-combat role I haven't seen mentioned here is The Muscle. Doors need breaking, carts need pulling, and an adventuring party needs someone strong enough to do both.

Sebastian
2022-01-25, 03:29 PM
Now let's go few adventures later: the barbarian is enjoying some mead in his hide-covered tent that was built by his followers - a hand-picked "chosen ones" from his tribe, while ranger's apprentices compete with each other to get the best piece of meat in front of him, because the loser is on the fletcher duty for the week, the fighter is watching his squires preparing his armor and weapons for tomorrow's dungeon delve, while listening to the report from the guards and scouts he hired, ready to retire into his pavillion, and the mage is meditating in his own tent, guarded by an apprentice, who has just instructed his servants on tonight's dinner. Meanwhile, at the second part of the camp, the porters are playing cards with the off-duty guardsmen and the quartermaster, while hungrily watching the cook prepare tonight's grub.

I know, this is not D&D, because it's normal for the party to just carry the golden statues out of the forgotten temple by themselves. And higher level adventurers just teleport around.

But I'd like to play/GM an RPG like this.

That is not very different from how it worked in oldest edition of D&D. From what I've read if was normal for Pcs to hire NPCs of various type to follow them, even in the dungeon, and at high level the PC attract follovers, depending on their class, the fighter get a little army of low level (0-1) soldiers, the ranger attract a lower level ranger that want to learn from him and so on. Knights of the dinner table was inspired by old D&D and have a lot of these things.

KorvinStarmast
2022-01-25, 09:28 PM
The Fence. Knows the people and the places to unload some of the stuff the group has picked up and needs to unload. No matter where the party goes, he knows a guy ...:smallcool:

Tanarii
2022-01-25, 10:26 PM
The Fence. Knows the people and the places to unload some of the stuff the group has picked up and needs to unload. No matter where the party goes, he knows a guy ...:smallcool:
Especially important if you're looting dungeons* for extremely valuable (and hard to sell) art objects, gems, and especially magic items worth a kings ransom, that will take weeks to months to make the contacts necessary to sell.

*Next time your PCs are caught with stolen goods, don't forget to drop the "I looted it from a dungeon" card

KorvinStarmast
2022-01-25, 11:50 PM
Especially important if you're looting dungeons* for extremely valuable (and hard to sell) art objects, gems, and especially magic items worth a kings ransom, that will take weeks to months to make the contacts necessary to sell.

*Next time your PCs are caught with stolen goods, don't forget to drop the "I looted it from a dungeon" card
Yeppers.
Also true in urban / noir games, and in space games that have no dungeons at all.

Pauly
2022-01-28, 12:49 AM
The Fence. Knows the people and the places to unload some of the stuff the group has picked up and needs to unload. No matter where the party goes, he knows a guy ...:smallcool:

The Fuzz Went to the academy with the captain of the guard. His brother in law is the captain of the guard the next town over. Knows the lingo and procedures and can get the good oil on whoever or whatever you are looking for if it falls under the ambit of law enforcement. Usually well respected by the front line cops but hated by the adminocrats. Often left the force under a mysterious dark cloud. If you happen to get on the wrong side of the law he knows how to leverage procedures to your advantage.

Tanarii
2022-01-28, 08:16 AM
The Fonz can fix anything with a sharp knock and an ayyyye

KorvinStarmast
2022-01-28, 11:23 AM
The Fonz can fix anything with a sharp knock and an ayyyye In coastal adventures he's without peer as a shark jumper as well. (At such times as that skill crops up).
The Fuzz Went to the academy with the captain of the guard. His brother in law is the captain of the guard the next town over. Knows the lingo and procedures and can get the good oil on whoever or whatever you are looking for if it falls under the ambit of law enforcement. Usually well respected by the front line cops but hated by the adminocrats. Often left the force under a mysterious dark cloud. If you happen to get on the wrong side of the law he knows how to leverage procedures to your advantage.
If it's a dwarf one gets to ironically name this PC {something} Rockford :smallsmile:

Psyren
2022-01-28, 01:19 PM
Ranger/Outdoorsman

A lot of adventuring involves traveling into or through wilderness environments, so it makes sense to bring along a wilderness survival expert. Someone who knows how to hunt and forage, how to find good spots to set up camp, how to avoid dangerous predators and environmental hazards, how to weather extreme conditions, and how to not get lost in the wilderness. The ranger's job is to essentially see the party safely from one end of the wilderness to the other.


The urban version of this is the Scoundrel. They know which taverns will result in the party fighting for their belongings or lives, which inn beds have more fleas than feathers, which back alleys are more trouble than they're worth, where the guard patrols are lightest, which officials are in the thieves' guild's pocket etc. Likely also incorporates the Fence mentioned above.

wilphe
2022-01-29, 05:28 AM
That is not very different from how it worked in oldest edition of D&D. From what I've read if was normal for Pcs to hire NPCs of various type to follow them, even in the dungeon, and at high level the PC attract follovers, depending on their class, the fighter get a little army of low level (0-1) soldiers, the ranger attract a lower level ranger that want to learn from him and so on. Knights of the dinner table was inspired by old D&D and have a lot of these things.

Which in turn is why Doppelgangers exist so the party doesn't bring more NPCs than they can keep tabs on...

dafrca
2022-01-31, 01:16 AM
While I would agree that a majority of the listed would make great skills the party might want access to, Almost all of them would never be a unique class and take up a full PC slot in my games. Hirelings and NPCs aside, some of the listed felt like skills the PCs should have access to already. Door Opener for example, when did that stop being the role of the thief/rogue? Doctor/Healer? What happened to your Cleric? A fighter does not have to be a stupid grunt, rather why couldn't they have diplomatic skills?

I do remember back in the old AD&D era when we had a camp train that came with us, set up near where we thought there was a dungeon, and the NPCs would protect/watch over our camp including our mounts while we ventured down into the dungeon or explored some ruins.

To the OPs point, sometimes it feels like there is an over focus on combat and that devalues the other skills of the party members. I am just less sure the answer is more classes that players will ignore in the combat focused frenzy of modern era TTRPGs.

Of course this is all just my opinion, no one need agree. :smallbiggrin:

Satinavian
2022-01-31, 03:12 AM
While I would agree that a majority of the listed would make great skills the party might want access to, Almost all of them would never be a unique class and take up a full PC slot in my games. Hirelings and NPCs aside, some of the listed felt like skills the PCs should have access to already. Door Opener for example, when did that stop being the role of the thief/rogue? Doctor/Healer? What happened to your Cleric? A fighter does not have to be a stupid grunt, rather why couldn't they have diplomatic skills?
It was asked about roles an adventurer party would want to have filled, not roles that you would build a whole class from. The assumption was that many of these non-combat roles would be fulled by regular PCs in addition to their combat roles. It is about "how to make a balanced party" outside of combat.