What could go wrong? Your overall thoughts???

[Kerilstrasz]

Had the idea while i was creating my latest character.

A group of commoners take their life in their own hands, and try to run to (or away from) their destiny.

Character creation
1) You are a Human (Variant).
2) Your stats are: 13, 12, 10, 9, 8, 8 or 13, 11, 10, 10, 9, 8 (plus 2* +1 to any 2 stats for variant human)
3) You can only pick a feat (for the variant human) that does NOT give you a level 1 or higher spell. Cantrips are fair game. (Only exception is Find Familar)
3,5) No 2 (or more) PCs may choose the same feat for their starting level! (Hooray Diversity!)
4) You can pick Any background you like or make a custom one as per PhB rules (note: You would receive none of the equipment listed)
4,5) Backgrounds that grand spells, cantrips, feats or other "non-mundane" abilities are banned.
5) You pick 1 Save to have proficiency in
6) You have NO proficiency with armor or weapons unless you get a feat that provides you with such benefit.

Character Progression
1) The characters will level up, but since they ll have no class, use Character advancement table to determiner you prof score.
2) You get a feat at every odd level, starting at level 3. You get NO additional ASI.
3) You can NOT get class levels, even if you meet the criteria.

That is what i'm thinking so far.
I don't have a set storyline yet, but i ve got a few ideas.
The campaign will be Highly RP based.
There will be fights & encounters as usual, but 9 out of 10 of them would be "winable" or "bypassable" by RPing your way through/around them.
Group would be 3-5 PCs.

What ya ppl think?

[NecessaryWeevil]

Well, I'd be thinking "pass!" but the only internal problem I see is, what if several players want the same feat? How would you decide who gets it?
Some of them might be even more desirable, even mandatory, in such a setup (though I haven't looked through them all to identify them).

[togapika]

Pass. If I want to feel powerless I can just look around IRL, I come to play D&D to be able to be a hero and help people

[Lalliman]

I've recently mulled on the idea of playing a one-shot with unclassed characters like that. But importantly, I would let them choose one of several professions that determine their proficiencies and equipment. The professions would be carefully chosen so that every character has something useful for combat and problem-solving. A lumberjack gets Athletics, proficiency with all axes, and owns a felling axe that is effectively a battle axe. A hunter has Survival, proficiency with bows, and owns a shortbow. That ensures they still get to do D&D character stuff, just on a very mundane scale, which could be an interesting gimmick for a one-shot.

If you want to do this for an actual campaign, you should use a different game system that is actually made to have normal people as player characters, like Call of Cthulhu or Hunter: The Vigil. Because if you strip away all the class-based subsystems, D&D has very little going for itself as a system, to the point where you might as well ditch what's left of it and do free-form roleplay. I'm sure there are people who want to play the kind of game that you're proposing, but you're not going to find those people on the D&D forums, because what you're proposing is fundamentally un-D&D.

[Melphizard]

Imo I think instead having them use the Sidekick system for their characters would work better for allowing them to have things they could do while still making them be less powerful then the standard adventurers. Personally I'd also modify the system to be better for the characters since there's no method of making a psuedo sorcerer sidekick even though a commoner being a sorcerer to their own surprise is an interesting story, though one that I've heard before.

[MarkVIIIMarc]

Its an interesting idea but to be analytical:

What will your level 8 battles look like? A 50HP 12AC human beating a couple 20 HP beasts with clubs?

Healing is going to be a thing.

Will they be able to hire mercenaries? Then role play the mercenaries clearing the mine or whatever?

Probably more importantly, do you have a particular 3 to 5 players in mind? If so, what are their backstories and what open hooks can we develop from the back stories? Those should be used to create your world. For my long lasting campaign a few of the players were in the same military unit and that formed the basis of our world. We more or less ran through the Tales of The Yawning Portal dungeons as quests given in this world with major and minor side quests outside the book.

[Yora]

Mechanically it should work. The only question is how to pitch this ideas to players so it's something they get excited about to play.

[Rukelnikov]

I'd definitely play something like that. However, there are a couple things I don't get.

Vhumans basically get the same total amount of stats as regular humans AND a feat? Stardard Humans should get the +1 to all stats, otherwise its always strictly worse than Vhuman.

Also, players don't get anything at even levels (except HP, which I'd assume is a d8?), that's a huge let down from a player perspective, its like you didn't level up at all, it feels worse to level up and get nothing, than to not level up.

Also, the "no two PCs can get the same feat" has a couple very serious implications, Gunner and Weapon Master are the only feats that grant proficiency in weapons, on the other hand, Aberrant Dragonmark, Magic Initiate(Wiz/Sor) and Strixhaven Initiate (all but Silverquill), are the only feats players can take that grant cantrips, and they all must come with Find Familiar to be eligible, thus, if you have 5 players, and they all want to be able to have a means of adding proficiency to attack, you'll always end with someone with Firearms (if available), and 3 familiars.

You could maybe fix both above problems by giving proficiency in one simple weapon on even levels, or every couple levels, or maybe just at level 1 (but that leaves the evel levels vacuum problem)

Also by level 7 you will start to have a problem with feats, if its 5 players, they have already picked 15 feats, at this point I'd expect at least one character to have nothing to pick that makes sense. Maybe you could designate a couple feats that can be picked by more than one character, generic stuff like Skilled, Skill Expert, Resilient & Weapon Master. Stuff that is generic enough, where you can make the individuality of the feats more granular, for instance two people can take Resilient, but no two can take Resilient(Wis), and two people may take Skill Expert, but no two can take Skill Expert (Stealth)

[NecessaryWeevil]

As I read the OP, the prohibition on duplicate feats only applies at level one.

[Rukelnikov]

As I read the OP, the prohibition on duplicate feats only applies at level one.

Ohhh you are right

[Kerilstrasz]

Ok, lets see...
the OP is an early draft really.

What i hear so far...

1) PCs should get some form of proff with at least 1 weapon at lvl1.
2) PCs should get smthing at even levels, to make it "interesting".

I like the idea of giving a weapon prof by background chosen...
eg. Axe for lumberjack etc...

Or maybe, have some.. "packages" prepared for the PCs to choose upon creation.
A tool/kit, paired with a weapon, to get prof on.
for example...
Smith's or Mason Tools or Percussion Instrument + Mace
Carpenter's or Woodworker's + Handaxe
Glassblower or Wind Instrument + Blowgun
Alchemist or Herbalist + Sickle or Dagger

it would be better and more, but you get the idea.

Regarding even levels..
maybe a prof? weapon, armor or skill (their choice each time)?

[MoiMagnus]

That is what i'm thinking so far.
I don't have a set storyline yet, but i ve got a few ideas.
The campaign will be Highly RP based.
There will be fights & encounters as usual, but 9 out of 10 of them would be "winable" or "bypassable" by RPing your way through/around them.
Group would be 3-5 PCs.

What ya ppl think?

I don't really see how the fight could be anything interesting with your rules, so I'd go further and throw away the combat system (including HP) entirely, and replace it by skills. Weapons are just tools, weapon proficiency is just a tool proficiency, and fight are just skill checks against a set DC. You handle injuries with RP (and disadvantages to tasks that are made unpractical by injuries).

[Rukelnikov]

Ok, lets see...
the OP is an early draft really.

What i hear so far...

1) PCs should get some form of proff with at least 1 weapon at lvl1.
2) PCs should get smthing at even levels, to make it "interesting".

IMO they need a way to get proficiency, not necesarilly at level 1, but if not by 2, I think its also better for the idea of the game, since I doubt 3 people getting Weapon Master at level 3 would be very interesting. Also, I think if you are gonna give proficiencies at even levels they shouldn't get a proficiency at 1st, if they really want to start with one, they can take the feat.


I like the idea of giving a weapon prof by background chosen...
eg. Axe for lumberjack etc...

Or maybe, have some.. "packages" prepared for the PCs to choose upon creation.
A tool/kit, paired with a weapon, to get prof on.
for example...
Smith's or Mason Tools or Percussion Instrument + Mace
Carpenter's or Woodworker's + Handaxe
Glassblower or Wind Instrument + Blowgun
Alchemist or Herbalist + Sickle or Dagger

it would be better and more, but you get the idea.

Sounds ok, maybe you could add starting gear to those packages, and then perhaps some feature they get every now and then


Regarding even levels..
maybe a prof? weapon, armor or skill (their choice each time)?

My knee jerk reaction was "armor sounds too strong", but tbh, I don't think it is. With the statlines presented light armor ain't that hot, so anyone wanting to get decent AC will need to get medium or heavy armor prof., but with armor as an option, you'd have to take light at 2, medium at 4, and heavy at 6 to get plate, you still have no proficiency in any weapon, even combining this with the odd level fats you'd get Weapon Master @1, Light @2, Medium @3, Heavy @4. You are spending all your features for your first 4 levels to be able to do S&B + Plate, but that's all you do. Maybe FS(Defense)@5.

It takes so much investment that "armor wearing" kinda becomes your class since its almost all you do. So I doubt many would go that route, even when its pretty solid under this rules.

[Kerilstrasz]

The idea is that the PCs are commoners.

I haven't solidify the idea yet, but im thinking...
Maybe fugitive slaves?
Maybe King's harem members on the run after the kingdom fell?
hmm..
Servants of a recently dead lord that just got their freedom?
Something to those lines.

It is a game of wits.. not power.
As my thinking it, by striping them of "Class Power", i force them to think/use
creative means of overcoming obstacles, instead of "We don't need to think.. we ll just kill em all" mentality.

So.. get organized and recap.

Character creation
1) You are a Human (Variant).
2) Your stats are: 13, 12, 10, 9, 8, 8 or 13, 11, 10, 10, 9, 8 (plus 2* +1 to any 2 stats for variant human)
3) You can only pick a feat (for the variant human) that does NOT give you a level 1 or higher spell. Cantrips are fair game. (Only exception is Find Familar)
3,5) No 2 (or more) PCs may choose the same feat for their starting level! (Hooray Diversity!)
4) You can pick Any background you like or make a custom one as per PhB rules (note: You would receive none of the equipment listed)
4,5) Backgrounds that grand spells, cantrips, feats or other "non-mundane" abilities are banned.
5) You pick 1 Save to have proficiency in
6) You have NO proficiency with armor or weapons unless you get a feat that provides you with such benefit.
7) Hidden Rule. PCs will receive starting equipment (or a chance to easy acquire it) suitable for each early in the 1st session.
(most likely would be a single backpack worth of items, plus a couple of daggers or other simple weapons/armor)

Character Progression
1) The characters will level up, but since they ll have no class, use Character advancement table to determiner you prof score & spell slots if you have spells.
2) You get a feat at every odd level, starting at level 3. You get NO additional ASI.
3) You can NOT get class levels, even if you meet the criteria.
4) You pick a weapon, armor or skill proficiency (your choice) at each even level.

And lets touch up a feat...
Magic Initiate
Choose a class: bard, cleric, druid, sorcerer, warlock, or wizard.
You learn two cantrips of your choice from that class’s spell list.
In addition, choose one 1st-level spell from that same list. You learn that spell and can cast it at its lowest level. Once you cast it, you must finish a long rest before you can cast it again.
Your spellcasting ability for these spells depends on the class you chose: Charisma for bard, sorcerer, or warlock; Wisdom for cleric or druid: or Intelligence for wizard.


Hmmm...
let me think this the other way. What I would create if I was the one playing...
I guess i'd go for a skill based character, with a familiar, eldritch blast as means of attack...
I wouldn't go for armor or weapon profs...
Resilient feats to boost atributes and get the must have saves (dex, con, wis).
Lucky feat somewhere in there...
Maybe invest on Cha (since this would be mainly RP game)?
Thats 5 feats.. so lvl9
at lvl9 i would have 4 skills/armor/weapons prof to choose.
Since i won't go for armor or weapon, that 4 skills/tools. plus 2 from creation (background), 6.
Deception, Persuasion, Stealth, Thieve's tools, & 2 more...
Maybe Ritual Caster?

What if i wanted to go non caster...
going to heavy armor only takes 3 lvls. +1 for shields.
then 1 lvl for weapon prof... lvl5.
then until lvl 9 you still can pick 2 profs + 2 feats.

[elyktsorb]

I feel like the only thing that could go wrong is people will be very bored, from lvl 1-2 your basically stuck with the exact same gimmick without 'anything' to make it different, and even that next feat might not add anything but skills or armor.

I also think the having to take different feats at 1st level is pointless, since that would just mean people will pick the feat they couldn't at level 3 right?


I think this could be interesting. Personally I'd take Tavern Brawler at 1st level, Proficiency with Improvised Weapons means I can use literally anything as a weapon, and bonus grapples.

Then I'd just go from there I guess, see where I end up. I am going to suplex whoever I damn well feel like, to hell if I have no class levels.