Why would you play a cleric?

[Rfkannen]

What about the cleric class draws you to it? If you were to play a cleric, what type of playstyle would you be going for?

Asking because I was thinking of the first time I played a cleric expecting to play a meak healer and wound up a divine blender bringing the wrath of my god. I think if i was to play a cleric again it would be for stuff like sprit gaurdiand and spiritual weapon instead of for their support capabilities. What would you be interested in the cleric class for?

[Greywander]

'Cause it's easy. And it does a lot of damage.

More seriously, I think they deliberately wanted to avoid the meek healer archetype in order to make cleric more appealing. Not a lot of people want to play healbots, after all. But I think they overcompensated, because cleric is one of the stronger classes. It's definitely geared toward a support role, but you've got good AC and a few good damage options. The variety in divine domains also means there are a lot of different kind of clerics, making it easier to find one that suits a given person's playstyle. You can easily have an all-cleric party and still have a lot of variety between the different characters.

In short:

Tanky
Full casting
Strong features
Subclass from 1st level
Flavorful

[5eNeedsDarksun]

I like Clerics, though I've only played a Light Cleric in 5e (Blaster with Elemental Adept to make Demons burn as well as everything else) through Out of the Abyss. There are a lot of appealing options for different styles. One of our players had the maligned Trickery Cleric in Curse of Strahd and despite the awkward mechanics of some abilities it was still good; the spells were great support and lent themselves to the flavor the player wanted and there were enough undead around that the default Channel Divinity kind of made up for the Trickery one competing with concentration.

The character I have in mind next is more Assassin than Cleric, but it's still worth mentioning that he's going to be a Grave Cleric that prays for his enemy's death then tries to make it happen.

[Guy Lombard-O]

I like playing clerics and paladins for the same basic reason - I enjoy the RP opportunities of being the divine hand or holy warrior of a deity who demonstrably, positively exists and provides you with powers. I think of them more like some players think of warlocks. That is, I expect my deity (or at least his minions) to be in active communication with my PC, to provide them with goals, an outlook on life with some degree of preferred behaviors, and a certain vision of the afterlife to strive for.

The mechanics of both are also very solid, and make for effective PCs with even minimal efforts towards optimization.

All around, both are a very appealing package IMHO.

[barakaka]

Sometimes there's something in the class you can't get anywhere else (usually it's the channel divinity for me). I like to play characters with hefty downsides or a really good option once a day.

My one character Grik was a Goblin Death Domain Cleric. I played him as a goofy goblin with a broom of flying, and a toad strapped to his head with a bunch of your standard goblin shaman-y stuff. He got away with being pretty darn evil in the party because of how goofy he was.
One day Grik poked a poor guard with the Fury of the Small (goblin) + Touch of Death (death domain) + Inflict + Vampiric Touch. The guard melted from all the damage and everyone turned abruptly lol :xykon:.

Touch of death was essential to the feel of the character I wanted, a goofy goblin which still commanded the respect of his taller, smarter peers. I've still got eyes for the Tempest Domain's Destructive Wrath because again, rolling for damage is something you usually have to do in D&D and cleric gets to bend the rules a bit.

[CMCC]

Spirit. Guardians.

[Witty Username]

Healing word, bless, spirit guardians, being a badass nice guy. Engage in fanatic cult behavior.
Can work as a budget Paladin if your one of those people that can't play Paladin without shouting "For the honor of Greyskull!" Every time you smite.

[KorvinStarmast]

Meek Healer?
Guiding Bolt
Inflict Wounds
Spiritual Weapon

Lots of neat spells and features. I really have enjoyed the clerics I play in this edition.

[Ogre Mage]

The cleric is the most approachable of the full-caster classes if ease of character creation and play is a concern. The class is balanced and maintains a good level of strength across all levels of play. Some other classes are better than the cleric at low level, different classes are better at high level. But the cleric is solid from Tier 1-4.

[SociopathFriend]

Typically my reason for playing any primary-caster class is there is a certain concept I want to play that I feel needs that class' spells to pull off. When it comes to a Cleric there are a few concepts I like- though the next one I would pick would likely be something similar to a 40K Grey Knight.

I seek out evil, thwart all foul magics, and cloak myself in auras of holiness while wading into melee. Very little actual healing would be part of the package.

Respectively that would be: Detect Evil and Good, Silence/Dispel Magic, and Spiritual Guardians/Spirit Shroud. I imagine Hallow would be taken at some point since I'd be very big on spreading 'good' as a force rather than just an ideal.



Coincidentally this is why I feel I'll never play a Druid in 5e. "Nature" magic holds no allure for me and neither does changing into animals.

[f5anor]

What about the cleric class draws you to it? If you were to play a cleric, what type of playstyle would you be going for?

The Cleric is probably the best candidate for the most unbalanced class in the game, in fact in Treantmonk's ranking two of the Cleric subclasses are classified as too overpowered.

A good way to illustrate this is that the Cleric is out of the box (without multiclassing) most likely to successfully fulfill many/most roles in a party. Let me explain.


A Cleric can come with heavy armor and shield and also has moderate hit dice. Clerics may not have the "Shield" spell, but they have "Shield of Faith" which gives a lower AC, but for a much longer duration. In summary Clerics, can function very effectively as a tank, mixing it up in the front line.

Clerics have amazing area of effect damage spells such as "Spirit Guardians", that can run for a very long time (10 mins!), inflicting very reliable damage (radiant/necrotic), which also upcasts very nicely all the way to the highest levels. In summary, a Cleric can stand in the middle of melee, tanking, while all enemies around him keep loosing hit points.

Clerics have amazing action economy, with their cornerstone spells ("Spiritual Weapon", "Spirit Guardians") requiring only a bonus action, or no action at all to cause damage. A cleric can inflict huge amounts of damage to enemies without actually expending an action, this means that he can spend his actions on other things such as tending to his party or just taking the dodge action to become even harder to hit.

Clerics have also good battlefield control, which becomes amazing combined with the strong AoE damage potential. "Spirit Guardians" halves creatures movement, forcing them to spend longer within the damaging inflicting range. Moreover, Clerics (nature) also have access to the amazing "Plant Growth" probably the best movement restricting spell in the game, which also happens to require no concentration and thus can be combined with "Spirit Guardians".

Clerics can heal, and can actually do it while doing all of the above at the same time!

Clerics offer great variety in they subclasses, even including access to 9th level Wizard spells!


Given the variety of subclasses, I would suggest to try out a more niche Cleric, maybe Trickery for some remote "Spirit Guardians"? This will probably give quite a different experience.

Also, given that most good Cleric spells upcast very well, maybe some kind of multiclass with another full caster could be an interesting option, Nature Cleric/Druid anyone?

Clerics can function very well as martials, so maybe a multiclass with a Wisdom based martial such as Ranger could be interesting.

[Ashe]

Clerics are bonkers strong, don't require much thought to play (but not *too* little) and have a lot of variance in playstyles depending on subclass and the spells you elect to use day by day. Why wouldn't I play a cleric?

[ImproperJustice]

1 reason: Divine Intervention.

It’s a wish spell at level 10/11?


Crazy crap it has done in our campaigns:

Ressurections
Full party heals in a fight
Summoned a Solar to fend off Strahd
Rebuilt a lost temple in a day
Plane Shifted the party to safety
Resurrected an entire Battlefield of troops whom fought for a righteous and holy cause in line with the deities goals (Forge Cleric retaking a Dwarven Fortress of great architectural significance from a Dragon five armies style).


Seriously, it’s an ability of legends even if it only works some of the time.

[KorvinStarmast]

The Cleric is probably the best candidate for the most unbalanced class in the game, in fact in Treantmonk's ranking two of the Cleric subclasses are classified as too overpowered. TM's opinions usually need a grain of salt. But Twilight Cleric is a bit of power creep, yes. Also, if Shield of Faith (concentration) is up, Spirit Guardians (concentration) can't also be up. While I love clerics, I find your enthusiasm (which I share) to somewhat overstate the case.

Clerics offer great variety in they subclasses, even including access to 9th level Wizard spells! Yes, that's one of the things I like a lot about clerics. I've played Life, Tempest, Arcana, Knowledge, Light, and Grave (that group didn't last long though) and am considering a Peace cleric if I get a chance to play AL some day. (Right now public health restrictions get in the way of that).

[Thunderous Mojo]

Clerics are bonkers strong, don't require much thought to play (but not *too* little) and have a lot of variance in playstyles depending on subclass and the spells you elect to use day by day. Why wouldn't I play a cleric?

Would you mind explaining, what about the cleric class strikes you as not requiring ‘much though to play’?

Tinkering with your spell selection, is for me, one of the most engaging,(and regularly time consuming aspects), of playing a Preparation Caster.

The Augury spell can aid one, in deterring if a spell will be useful the next Adventuring day…..Weal or Woe, baby!

[Sigreid]

'Cause it's easy. And it does a lot of damage.

More seriously, I think they deliberately wanted to avoid the meek healer archetype in order to make cleric more appealing. Not a lot of people want to play healbots, after all. But I think they overcompensated, because cleric is one of the stronger classes. It's definitely geared toward a support role, but you've got good AC and a few good damage options. The variety in divine domains also means there are a lot of different kind of clerics, making it easier to find one that suits a given person's playstyle. You can easily have an all-cleric party and still have a lot of variety between the different characters.

In short:

Tanky
Full casting
Strong features
Subclass from 1st level
Flavorful


Well, as early as 1e the cleric was the second best fighter (counting rangers and paladins as fighters, as is appropriate IMO) with equivalent armor to the fighter and the second best weapons and I believe (been a long time) the second best attack table.

[KorvinStarmast]

Would you mind explaining, what about the cleric class strikes you as not requiring ‘much though to play’? I concur with this point. Full casters and spell selection/preparation, require quite a bit of player effort to set up. The more spells options one has to prepare the more thought needs to go into it.


Tinkering with your spell selection, is for me, one of the most engaging,(and regularly time consuming aspects), of playing a Preparation Caster. Yep.

[Keravath]

1 reason: Divine Intervention.

It’s a wish spell at level 10/11?


Crazy crap it has done in our campaigns:

Ressurections
Full party heals in a fight
Summoned a Solar to fend off Strahd
Rebuilt a lost temple in a day
Plane Shifted the party to safety
Resurrected an entire Battlefield of troops whom fought for a righteous and holy cause in line with the deities goals (Forge Cleric retaking a Dwarven Fortress of great architectural significance from a Dragon five armies style).


Seriously, it’s an ability of legends even if it only works some of the time.

I agree that it is a really nice and flavorful ability ... and your list of successes is really cool .. but it seems to me that either your DM has some house rules (like increased success for requests of particular significance to the diety) or your cleric's are exceptionally lucky.

You have to roll lower than your level on percentile dice in order for divine intervention to occur. This gives it about a 10% chance on any specific roll when the character first gets it. A character would have to make 40-80 divine intervention attempts to get a reasonable chance of the 6+ good results you list.

Personally, I've never seen it succeed once but I think you likely play far more high level campaigns than I have :)

[Waazraath]

What about the cleric class draws you to it? If you were to play a cleric, what type of playstyle would you be going for?


Mechanically: versatile class that has strong defenses, is an excellent buffer, good healer, does decent single target damage, and depending on subclass can get more, e.g. good melee or area of effect capabilities.
Flavor: allows many archetypes, from the scholary type to the hammer of thor and a lot in between.

I already played tempest (melee / aoe) so my next one will probably be one more focussed on casting/ranged, e.g. knowledge domain or something.

[Pildion]

Spirit. Guardians.

This, + Spiritual Weapon.

[Psyren]

They are my least favorite full caster this edition, but they're still a full caster and thus strong.


I think if i was to play a cleric again it would be for stuff like sprit gaurdiand and spiritual weapon instead of for their support capabilities.

It's not either/or. Once set up, this combo doesn't use your action - so you're free to attack with weapons, spam cantrips, buff, debuff, heal, control etc etc.

[Naanomi]

I mean... I wish that 'meek healer' were a viable archetype; but cleric isn't it. Depending on subclass, you've got a durable frontline body with decent offense, or a reasonable offensive caster that is markedly more durable that other similar characters... Both of which can happen to heal

[Psyren]

I mean... I wish that 'meek healer' were a viable archetype; but cleric isn't it. Depending on subclass, you've got a durable frontline body with decent offense, or a reasonable offensive caster that is markedly more durable that other similar characters... Both of which can happen to heal

Yeah, I do find it funny that both Life and Peace clerics are combat powerhouses :smallbiggrin:

If I wanted a true combat-averse healer (borderline pacifist) I'd probably go more for something like a Dream Druid, Divine Soul Sorc that leans into support magic, or even a Mercy Monk.

[Naanomi]

If I wanted a true combat-averse healer (borderline pacifist) I'd probably go more for something like a Dream Druid, Divine Soul Sorc that leans into support magic, or even a Mercy Monk.
I like healer as an archetype, I play one in many games... But it hasn't been really viable to focus on since 2e maybe in D&D. I don't want it to be necessary, but viable would be nice. Celestial Warlocks work well in this role I find (and can fit a ton of other support in roles in as well to support a party robustly)

[Kurt Kurageous]

Well, as early as 1e the cleric was the second best fighter (counting rangers and paladins as fighters, as is appropriate IMO) with equivalent armor to the fighter and the second best weapons and I believe (been a long time) the second best attack table.

Confirmed as true. I know. I was there.

Back then it was the only other full casting option besides (giggle) "Magic-User."

I like cleric because you are the perception bot most of the time, you have a huge role socially if insight is a skill for you, and you have a few amazing spells early on, most of which have been mentioned.

If I may add one more spell, Locate Object is often incredibly useful. Looking for someone? Was there a unique item they possessed? Are they within a 1000'? Found. Imagine a cleric on horseback charging through the city in pursuit of someone or something. 10 minute duration, then cast again.

[5eNeedsDarksun]

Confirmed as true. I know. I was there.

Back then it was the only other full casting option besides (giggle) "Magic-User."

I like cleric because you are the perception bot most of the time, you have a huge role socially if insight is a skill for you, and you have a few amazing spells early on, most of which have been mentioned.

If I may add one more spell, Locate Object is often incredibly useful. Looking for someone? Was there a unique item they possessed? Are they within a 1000'? Found. Imagine a cleric on horseback charging through the city in pursuit of someone or something. 10 minute duration, then cast again.

Locate Object gets a lot of use at our table as well. Guidance is great and not that widely available.

Bless is great early game, mid game if you're playing with a lot of encounters to burn up slots, and (at least for my Light Cleric who was using most of his 3rd + 4th level slots for Fireball) stays viable to late game.

[Odessa333]

The last cleric I played was a 'thank you' to my group. Long story short, the DM had us pre made characters, so we had a cleric and two Paladins, so my monk never had to worry about healing. So when the next game came up, I said early on I would play a cleric so others didn't have to worry over the healing bit. I played a grave cleric from 1 to 20, and she was a blast. Would totally do it again.

[Leon]

Party Support.
Less awesome in this edition because of the concentration limitations of Buff spells for the most part but still very good. Capable combatant and healing aswell.

Forge Cleric is what i'd play.

[TMac9000]

Short answer: you can be a top-shelf healer, and at need, you can also be a god’s wrath made manifest. You can wreck SO MUCH HOUSE with Spirit Guardians.

[Greywander]

I concur with this point. Full casters and spell selection/preparation, require quite a bit of player effort to set up. The more spells options one has to prepare the more thought needs to go into it.
I do think cleric is probably the most noob-friendly caster class.

Medium/heavy armor and a d8 hit die, so you don't have to worry about dying as much. You can make mistakes.
You can prepare a new set of spells every time you rest. Again, you can make mistakes. Getting stuck with a bad spell on a bard or sorcerer hurts.
The cleric list is quite a bit more restricted. This helps keep the new player from being overwhelmed with options.
Aside from Channel Divinity, the cleric doesn't have a lot of extra moving parts (depends on subclass, though), so new players don't get distracted or overwhelmed.

If a new player wanted to try a spellcaster, cleric would be the class I would recommend for learning how to play a caster.


I mean... I wish that 'meek healer' were a viable archetype; but cleric isn't it. Depending on subclass, you've got a durable frontline body with decent offense, or a reasonable offensive caster that is markedly more durable that other similar characters... Both of which can happen to heal
There's the Divine Soul sorcerer or the Celestial warlock.

I also came up with a homebrew a while back specifically to replace shields with something else, specifically because I wanted a more priest-like cleric: Sacred Chimes (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?612895-Cleric-s-Sacred-Chimes-(shield-holy-symbol-alternative)). You can use the chimes as a holy symbol, or attach them to a staff or club (which makes them improvised weapons). By using an action to speak a prayer, you invoke the protection of your deity for +2 AC until you drop the chimes (doesn't stack with a shield). I even added in a magic item version of sacred chimes that increases your spell save DC, and if you attach the chimes to a +X staff or club, it converts the +X bonus from attack/damage rolls to an AC bonus (like a magic shield).

It doesn't work quite the same way as shields do, but I think it's alright. It's interesting and flavorful, and overlaps enough with shields that you won't notice a difference most of the time. So if you want to play a cleric, but don't want the aesthetic of wielding a shield, but also don't want to give up the AC bonus while getting nothing in return, this would be an option.

[Sigreid]

I do think cleric is probably the most noob-friendly caster class.

Medium/heavy armor and a d8 hit die, so you don't have to worry about dying as much. You can make mistakes.
You can prepare a new set of spells every time you rest. Again, you can make mistakes. Getting stuck with a bad spell on a bard or sorcerer hurts.
The cleric list is quite a bit more restricted. This helps keep the new player from being overwhelmed with options.
Aside from Channel Divinity, the cleric doesn't have a lot of extra moving parts (depends on subclass, though), so new players don't get distracted or overwhelmed.

If a new player wanted to try a spellcaster, cleric would be the class I would recommend for learning how to play a caster.


There's the Divine Soul sorcerer or the Celestial warlock.

I also came up with a homebrew a while back specifically to replace shields with something else, specifically because I wanted a more priest-like cleric: Sacred Chimes (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?612895-Cleric-s-Sacred-Chimes-(shield-holy-symbol-alternative)). You can use the chimes as a holy symbol, or attach them to a staff or club (which makes them improvised weapons). By using an action to speak a prayer, you invoke the protection of your deity for +2 AC until you drop the chimes (doesn't stack with a shield). I even added in a magic item version of sacred chimes that increases your spell save DC, and if you attach the chimes to a +X staff or club, it converts the +X bonus from attack/damage rolls to an AC bonus (like a magic shield).

It doesn't work quite the same way as shields do, but I think it's alright. It's interesting and flavorful, and overlaps enough with shields that you won't notice a difference most of the time. So if you want to play a cleric, but don't want the aesthetic of wielding a shield, but also don't want to give up the AC bonus while getting nothing in return, this would be an option.

A bard can also be built into a solid healer without being a heavy combat character.

[5eNeedsDarksun]

So many references to Spirit Guardians in this thread. We got our group into a real bind due to this spell in a very popular module. There were some Golems that we definitely weren't supposed to fight at our level, but the cleric had the spell still up from the last room and did damage to the Golems before realizing what they were, which was the trigger to activate them.

[ImproperJustice]

I agree that it is a really nice and flavorful ability ... and your list of successes is really cool .. but it seems to me that either your DM has some house rules (like increased success for requests of particular significance to the diety) or your cleric's are exceptionally lucky.

You have to roll lower than your level on percentile dice in order for divine intervention to occur. This gives it about a 10% chance on any specific roll when the character first gets it. A character would have to make 40-80 divine intervention attempts to get a reasonable chance of the 6+ good results you list.

Personally, I've never seen it succeed once but I think you likely play far more high level campaigns than I have :)

Our campaign ran from 1-20.

Die rolls were by the player. Campaign lasted 3 years with one session per week at 3-4 hours per game.
Thing is, if you fail, at least for a Resurrection or Plane Shift, you can wait 24 hours and try again.
And yeah, sometimes you get lucky.

Sometimes your Forge God really hates Strahd a bit for what he did to that poor architect of his Castle.
A little role play does help results here or there such as the mass battlefield ressurection, but it kinda was the equivalent of retaking the temple of Dwarf Solomon.
I just figured it was worth a shot with a %16 chance of success.

With faith, you don’t receive if you don’t ask ;)

[Foxydono]

I wouldn't. It's one of those classes I dislike. The only thing a Cleric excels at is healing and I don't enjoy playing a healer. For support I'd play Bard, voor tank Paladin or Warrior and DPS has many good builds, but not one involving Cleric.

One thing I can say positive, that it's one of the most all round classes in dnd. You have healing, support, armor, damage, etc. So if you like doing everything with a focus on helping others (through support, healing, tank, etc.) a cleric is for you.

[Ashe]

Would you mind explaining, what about the cleric class strikes you as not requiring ‘much though to play’?

Tinkering with your spell selection, is for me, one of the most engaging,(and regularly time consuming aspects), of playing a Preparation Caster.!


I concur with this point. Full casters and spell selection/preparation, require quite a bit of player effort to set up. The more spells options one has to prepare the more thought needs to go into it.

You can prepare all the spells you'll actually "need" with ease if you're maxing your WIS and picking a good domain for what you want to do. The rest is just gravy. Hard to figure out the specifics the first time you play one (stuff like blindness being a god tier upcast is not readily apparent without experience) but after that it's all reflexive and mostly a matter of what you feel like using the next day.

[Warder]

Strong class with an even stronger flavor and roleplaying opportunities, and I've never met a party that hasn't loved having a cleric or two on the team. I will say I think it loses much of its appeal if all you do is treat the cleric as a walking divine caster spell list. The cleric/deity relationship is a huge part of playing one for me, and especially in terms of paying attention to the tenets of your faith.

[Azuresun]

One thing I find quite fun is to pick a deity that you wouldn't normally associate with adventuring, then figure out why one of their clerics would go adventuring.

[f5anor]

One thing I find quite fun is to pick a deity that you wouldn't normally associate with adventuring, then figure out why one of their clerics would go adventuring.

This is something that I always found problematic with healbot/goody two-shoes type clerics in a party.

It does not make sense at all to me that such a character would chose to go murderhobboing and even less sense that his deity would support and encourage this on a daily basis with spells and even more spells. In fact, this would actually be more the province of an evil god that sends his clerics out to cause chaos and destruction.

The wrath-of-god type cleric that is portrayed in most of the 5e cleric sub-classes is more reasonable for the basic premise of adventuring.

[TMac9000]

So many references to Spirit Guardians in this thread. We got our group into a real bind due to this spell in a very popular module. There were some Golems that we definitely weren't supposed to fight at our level, but the cleric had the spell still up from the last room and did damage to the Golems before realizing what they were, which was the trigger to activate them.

As much as I love this spell for some encounters, you MUST be aware of this. The Law of Unintended Consequences bites hard with this one. Sure, that crew of hard, pipe-hitting angels is great to have around. But they only pay attention about who not to hit until they start swinging. After that it’s “smite ‘em all, the gods will know their own.”

[KorvinStarmast]

I do think cleric is probably the most noob-friendly {full} caster class.

Medium/heavy armor and a d8 hit die, so you don't have to worry about dying as much. You can make mistakes.
You can prepare a new set of spells every time you rest. Again, you can make mistakes. Getting stuck with a bad spell on a bard or sorcerer hurts.
The cleric list is quite a bit more restricted. This helps keep the new player from being overwhelmed with options.
Aside from Channel Divinity, the cleric doesn't have a lot of extra moving parts (depends on subclass, though), so new players don't get distracted or overwhelmed.

If a new player wanted to try a spellcaster, cleric would be the class I would recommend for learning how to play a caster. Amen to all of these points.

There's the Divine Soul sorcerer or the Celestial warlock. I love my Celestial 'lock.


I wouldn't. It's one of those classes I dislike. The only thing a Cleric excels at is healing and I don't enjoy playing a healer.
Wrong on so many levels. (I'll toss out Banishment and Blindness/Deafness as but two examples, and the Bless buff is good in all four tiers)

One thing I can say positive, that it's one of the most all round classes in dnd. You have healing, support, armor, damage, etc. So if you like doing everything with a focus on helping others (through support, healing, tank, etc.) a cleric is for you. Completely agree. :smallsmile:

You can prepare all the spells you'll actually "need" with ease if you're maxing your WIS and picking a good domain for what you want to do.
For an experienced player, yes.

The rest is just gravy. Hard to figure out the specifics the first time you play one (stuff like blindness being a god tier upcast is not readily apparent without experience) but after that it's all reflexive and mostly a matter of what you feel like using the next day. "reflexive" I am not so sure about, but as above it is great to be able to switch out spells if your milieu changes or you learn something about the enemy.

[Sigreid]

One thing I find quite fun is to pick a deity that you wouldn't normally associate with adventuring, then figure out why one of their clerics would go adventuring.

I have been toying for a while with the idea of a cleric character who is completely wrong about the god he worships. He's not a trickster or anything like that. He's genuinely insane and makes up wild sermons and rules with loud certainty...and another god is the one who actually provides his power because the god thinks it's hilarious.

[Warder]

I also think that clerics are the ideal class for veteran players at a table that's introducing new players to the game. They can provide support and a safety net for whatever shenanigans the newer players get into, and switch to blender mode on the fly if the situation calls for it. That's actually what I've been doing with the cleric I'm playing at the moment in my online group, and it's very rewarding for both me and them.

[KorvinStarmast]

I have been toying for a while with the idea of a cleric character who is completely wrong about the god he worships. He's not a trickster or anything like that. He's genuinely insane and makes up wild sermons and rules with loud certainty...and another god is the one who actually provides his power because the god thinks it's hilarious. I love this idea, not sure how to make it work, though.
I also think that clerics are the ideal class for veteran players at a table that's introducing new players to the game. They can provide support and a safety net for whatever shenanigans the newer players get into, and switch to blender mode on the fly if the situation calls for it... it's very rewarding for both me and them. I have done something similar in a couple of groups.

[Psyren]

I love this idea, not sure how to make it work, though.

They could actually make a chaos domain for starters :smallyuk:

[5eNeedsDarksun]

As much as I love this spell for some encounters, you MUST be aware of this. The Law of Unintended Consequences bites hard with this one. Sure, that crew of hard, pipe-hitting angels is great to have around. But they only pay attention about who not to hit until they start swinging. After that it’s “smite ‘em all, the gods will know their own.”

Yeah, walking from room to room with a spell 'on' that could kill whatever you're trying to save can be problematic.

[Naanomi]

One thing I find quite fun is to pick a deity that you wouldn't normally associate with adventuring, then figure out why one of their clerics would go adventuring.
My favorite 2e character was a Waukeenite Goldeneye adventurer, who adventured mostly to 'liquidate' wealth needlessly sitting in monster hoards and similar economic prosperity goals... Fighting and healing and all that were secondary at best

[Psyren]

My favorite 2e character was a Waukeenite Goldeneye adventurer, who adventured mostly to 'liquidate' wealth needlessly sitting in monster hoards and similar economic prosperity goals... Fighting and healing and all that were secondary at best

I love this concept. Abadar would approve too! He would even grant Ordered.

[Sigreid]

I love this idea, not sure how to make it work, though.

It would mostly be a roleplay thing hinged on my willingness to make up wild claims and argue with the normal devout. Mechanically, he'd just be a cleric.

[sethdmichaels]

Mechanically: versatile class that has strong defenses, is an excellent buffer, good healer, does decent single target damage, and depending on subclass can get more, e.g. good melee or area of effect capabilities.
Flavor: allows many archetypes, from the scholary type to the hammer of thor and a lot in between.

**both** of these. you get a lot of versatility in what your character can *do* with their turns, in and out of combat - whether that's supporting with bless, aid and healing word; damaging with weapons/cantrips, spiritual weapon, and spirit guardians; control with command or hold person; or backing up noncombat encounters with detect magic and guidance. (guiding bolt is both a damage spell and a support spell since it gives advantage to the next attack!) you're magically potent but you're not totally stranded when the fight comes right to you. lots of different playstyles, and lots of backup plans in case your strategy isn't working.

you also get a lot of versatility with flavor, which i like. i have a hippie yoga-instructor light cleric but you can use the same mechanics to be a high-minded holy avenger or a wild-eyed brimstone-hurler. a nice customizable roleplaying hook that comes with values and social bonds.

[Dr. Murgunstrum]

Mechanically: because you either like being a spellcasting tank or you enjoy being a support character. The cleric excels at both, and can even pose as a blaster too.

Narratively: because you want to explore the ideas and themes of faith, organized religion, conviction and the relationship between mortals and the greater powers.


This can be overt: you’re a missionary trying to convince others to follow your god or join your church, you wish to destroy, undo or redeem those opposed to your beliefs, you follow your church or god without question (or blindly if you wish to be critical) or you might directly commune with your diety or power.

Or it can be more subtle: you can conceive of a set of virtues to act by: charity, community, honesty, courage, honour or other things your god values, and a set of vices: prudishness, wrath, greed, tyranny, deceit (and for the record, these can also be inverted, some powers may spurn charity and embrace greed). You can devote yourself to one god, but pay homage to all as a devout pantheist. You might keep your faith private and within your own kindred or community, either to protect it or to preserve it from alien influence.


The cleric as a mortal imbued with the power of divinity is ripe with roleplaying potential.

[Athan Artilliam]

I like the Cleric because of its faith. I feel like people just dont understand spirituality anymore & are largely resistant to the idea. Many people ive played with treat the Cleric class like another flavor of wizard which is kind of sad

[Naanomi]

I like the Cleric because of its faith. I feel like people just dont understand spirituality anymore & are largely resistant to the idea.
A pantheistic setting with physical Gods like the Great Wheel doesn't lend itself to this well to me. Devotion, yes, but faith as we conceptualize in modern terms sort of requires less direct evidence than even a low-level cleric has access to (and at high level you can just make the pilgrimage and high-five your God personally if you want)

[TMac9000]

**both** of these. you get a lot of versatility in what your character can *do* with their turns, in and out of combat - whether that's supporting with bless, aid and healing word; damaging with weapons/cantrips, spiritual weapon, and spirit guardians; control with command or hold person; or backing up noncombat encounters with detect magic and guidance. (guiding bolt is both a damage spell and a support spell since it gives advantage to the next attack!) you're magically potent but you're not totally stranded when the fight comes right to you. lots of different playstyles, and lots of backup plans in case your strategy isn't working.

you also get a lot of versatility with flavor, which i like. i have a hippie yoga-instructor light cleric but you can use the same mechanics to be a high-minded holy avenger or a wild-eyed brimstone-hurler. a nice customizable roleplaying hook that comes with values and social bonds.

The way that backgrounds and subclasses can bounce off each other give you a lot of variety, even within a single subclass. That's true for all of the classes, not just Cleric.

Right now, I'm having a ton of fun with a Life Cleric with the Soldier background. More combat medic than meek healer, his motto is "These things we do, that others may live." "These things" might be a timely intervention with Healing Word, or using the Healer feat to restore hit points when spell slots are running low. It might also be body-blocking a troll off a cliff into a canyon. (We might see him again, but not during THIS fight.) And he's got plenty of rituals on hand for whatever needs doing. To his allies he's a fount of succor and support, to his foes he's the day of reckoning. Feels good, man; feels good.

[Athan Artilliam]

A pantheistic setting with physical Gods like the Great Wheel doesn't lend itself to this well to me. Devotion, yes, but faith as we conceptualize in modern terms sort of requires less direct evidence than even a low-level cleric has access to (and at high level you can just make the pilgrimage and high-five your God personally if you want)

Thats not faith, or at least its a narrow idea of faith.
I dont mean faith as in you dont know if they are there or not. I mean spirituality, like caring about your soul, not just sterile ethics. Faith that the god has a path for you & if you follow it you will come out better than you are. The assurance that you were guided to a place for a reason. The knowledge that you will be sheltered by the Goddess when the agents of darkness howl at your door. Mysticism, portents, serendipity, & interpretation of will.

A faithful hero that comes to person in need knows that he was set there with purpose . To instruct, protect, or perhaps learn a lesson.

No cleric I have ever played with beyond myself has ever bothered to think about the philosophy or faith of their deity.
What does fighting mean to a servant of Pelor? A field cannot grow if you thresh the corn as it sprouts, but to leave a crop untended leaves a meal for worms & locusts. So does this mean to fight sparingly? Does not His mighty Sun spear the dark clouds & blind the minions of the night? Perhaps it is His will that we take the fight to the darkened caves & shadowed lands? A farmer must care for his field. His duty is provide for people & to protect them. Mostly this means to be patient, kind & supportive, leave fighting to the heirs of Heironeous, perhaps?

[Psyren]

A pantheistic setting with physical Gods like the Great Wheel doesn't lend itself to this well to me. Devotion, yes, but faith as we conceptualize in modern terms sort of requires less direct evidence than even a low-level cleric has access to (and at high level you can just make the pilgrimage and high-five your God personally if you want)

I don't think that direct/tangible interaction in the form of granting spells necessarily precludes the more mysterious sorts of faith. OotS has a good example of this with Loki delaying answering his follower's prayer (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1106.html) until he could do so in a way that didn't go outside the rules (both the metaphysical ones that constrain deities in his setting, and the mechanical ones that govern D&D.)

[KorvinStarmast]

Thats not faith, or at least its a narrow idea of faith.
I dont mean faith as in you dont know if they are there or not. I mean spirituality, like caring about your soul, not just sterile ethics. Faith that the god has a path for you & if you follow it you will come out better than you are. The assurance that you were guided to a place for a reason. The knowledge that you will be sheltered by the Goddess when the agents of darkness howl at your door. Mysticism, portents, serendipity, & interpretation of will.

A faithful hero that comes to person in need knows that he was set there with purpose . To instruct, protect, or perhaps learn a lesson.

No cleric I have ever played with beyond myself has ever bothered to think about the philosophy or faith of their deity. My life cleric took this approach from day 1; her spirituality was usually on display, her daily ablutions and prayers, and her having to undo some of the harm our more murder hobo PCs indulged in were among the ways that she served her deity. She also undertook quests to improve the quality of beer in an agricultural region. (Her deity is the brewer/vintner/distiller deity in my brother's world). (I even had her create the standard blessing: "In the name of the barrel, and of the foam, and of the holy nectar" which is now an integral part of the game world and used by other parties as well).
When she got pregnant (that was an RP thing and a surprise to both me and the DM) she ended up settling down in that town to tend a shrine and raise her child. (My decision). As a result I brought in a new PC to join the group.

[Burley]

I like the Cleric because of its faith. I feel like people just dont understand spirituality anymore & are largely resistant to the idea. Many people ive played with treat the Cleric class like another flavor of wizard which is kind of sad

I think this touches on an interesting role-play pitfall of a lot of player/character interaction: Reverence for the source of your abilities.

I've also noticed that many clerics only roleplay their faith when the character needs something from their deity. Likewise, I think many wizards aren't roleplayed as carrying a dozen books and intensely studying or meditating, unless they come across a new tome. Druids may not show reverence to nature until they witness it being threatened. Warlocks... well, they're all over the place, but it's still probably the DM who brings up the patron during a game, not the player.

RP is often how we respond to the DM, and we assume the behind the scenes stuff (daily ablutions, prayer and study, laundry, digging a small hole behind a bush) because it's not always exciting. So, yeah, I'll agree that we don't often RP faith because faith/devotion/reverence is something our characters are assumed to be doing in the background, constantly and consistently, as a part of their personal upkeep.

[jaappleton]

Cleric is in an incredibly unique space in 5e.

Its designed unlike any other class. Any other full caster is capable of getting extra attack at 6th level, if the subclass fits it.

But instead Clerics get an offensive boost at 8th level, and another at 14th.

Its incredibly odd and strange, built uniquely from another other class.

Look at Wizard and Druid. Both subclass features at the same levels. Levels 2, 6, 10, and 14. Bards are 3, 6, and 14. Sorcs are 1, 6, 14 and 18.

Every other full caster with standard casting progression (Looking at you for being weird, WARLOCKS!) get a core feature at 14. Heck, even Warlocks get something at 14, a true defining feature. Clerics get a minor boost to cantrips or weapon attacks.

They are so uniquely designed, its almost like they were for a whole different edition of the game.

......Yet, somehow, they work. They fit in. Everything works. There's no weird, odd gap in power at any point.

And the subclasses, IMO, do a better job at providing a unique identity than any other classes subclass does. A Tempest plays different from Grave, you know right away which is which, and they play totally uniquely. As opposed to a Spirits Bard VS A Lore Bard, or something like that. Yes, certain individual subclasses radically alter the play style of their class (Moon Druids, for example), but the Cleric Domains do it so consistently across the board, more so than anything else.

Its the best designed full caster. Please, don't confuse that for me saying its the strongest. Simultaneously, it somehow seems like it doesn't fit the mold of 5e, but totally works.

Its exactly what I recommend to anyone wanting to play their first full caster in 5e. You get armor, you get spells, you get solid hit dice, you can heal, you can do some blasting. Its everything pretty well, without requiring any sort of optimization in order to work. It works right out of the gate.

[KorvinStarmast]

Its the best designed full caster. Please, don't confuse that for me saying its the strongest. Simultaneously, it somehow seems like it doesn't fit the mold of 5e, but totally works.

Its exactly what I recommend to anyone wanting to play their first full caster in 5e. You get armor, you get spells, you get solid hit dice, you can heal, you can do some blasting. Its everything pretty well, without requiring any sort of optimization in order to work. It works right out of the gate. Said it better than I could.

[jaappleton]

Said it better than I could.

You're lying again, Korvin. :smalltongue:

[stoutstien]

I think cleric as a class just got the mix right. It has a strong thematic presence without feeling over burdensome. It has the tools built in to have an enjoyable time regardless of pacing or game direction. The chassis is approachable enough for new players to pick it up quickly yet has enough nuances that more advanced players can still find it enjoyable. Hard line to toe but it does it in stride.

[Ulsan Krow]

Because its strong as. It can do anything, and can be designed to play in many different ways. Healbot, tank, can do damage, can be the controlly caster guy/gal.


The subclass design is probably the best of any class too, its very clear how the domains are separated from one another, the subclass features and spells are very cohesive, and they are clear on what flavor and roleplaying elements it gives your respective cleric.