Would this be Low Wisdom or Low Charisma?

[BlueWitch]

Person A is sleeping on the couch.

Person B comes charging into the room loudly. They turn on bright lights (because they are searching for something) and opening cabinets loudly. They know Person A is trying to sleep but aren't aware that their own actions are obnoxious.

It's greatly irritating to Person A since they think courtesy is common sense.
Person B is oblivious to Person A's annoyance.

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So is Person B lacking in Wisdom or Charisma?

Wisdom has to do with perception but Charisma has to do with charming.

Could it be both?

[Wintermoot]

Person A is sleeping on the couch.

Person B comes charging into the room loudly. They turn on bright lights (because they are searching for something) and opening cabinets loudly. They know Person A is trying to sleep but aren't aware that their own actions are obnoxious.

It's greatly irritating to Person A since they think courtesy is common sense.
Person B is oblivious to Person A's annoyance.

------

So is Person B lacking in Wisdom or Charisma?

Wisdom has to do with perception but Charisma has to do with charming.

Could it be both?

Wisdom because Person B doesn't know they are being irritating.

High Charisma would mean Person A wouldn't find it annoying because they'd do it in a charming way.
Low Charisma means Person A would find a reason to be annoyed by person B even if they crept in like a mouse and tried super hard to not wake them up.

Note that Person A has low intelligence because if they had just gone and took a nap in their bedroom instead of in the couch in the common area where other people had things to do, they wouldn't have caused this situation in the first place

[Feldar]

Low Wisdom on the part of Person A. What idiot sleeps in a room that's open to the kitchen? Do you not know that person B will need the kitchen at some point?

[BlueWitch]

Wisdom because Person B doesn't know they are being irritating.

High Charisma would mean Person A wouldn't find it annoying because they'd do it in a charming way.
Low Charisma means Person A would find a reason to be annoyed by person B even if they crept in like a mouse and tried super hard to not wake them up.

Note that Person A has low intelligence because if they had just gone and took a nap in their bedroom instead of in the couch in the common area where other people had things to do, they wouldn't have caused this situation in the first place

Good points on all of these!

[Rebel7284]

Low Wisdom on the part of Person A. What idiot sleeps in a room that's open to the kitchen? Do you not know that person B will need the kitchen at some point?

You have never crashed on a friend's couch after a party?

Also, sometimes folks are forced by circumstanced into less than optimal situations, I don't think most D&D campaigns are focused on exploring the trials and tribulations of comfortable middle-class living....

[SpyOne]

It could be either or both.
Charisma isn't just being charming, it is understanding the other person's point of view. It is relating to other people.

Another poster said that a low charisma means you are annoying no matter how quiet you are, but it can also be that you are failing at judging how quiet you should be.

[Ramza00]

Wisdom
1 (–5): Seemingly incapable of thought, barely aware
2-3 (–4): Rarely notices important or prominent items, people, or occurrences
4-5 (–3): Seemingly incapable of forethought
6-7 (–2): Often fails to exert common sense
8-9 (–1): Forgets or opts not to consider options before taking action
10-11 (0): Makes reasoned decisions most of the time
12-13 (1): Able to tell when a person is upset
14-15 (2): Can get hunches about a situation that doesn’t feel right
16-17 (3): Reads people and situations fairly well
18-19 (4): Often used as a source of wisdom or decider of actions
20-21 (5): Reads people and situations very well, almost unconsciously
22-23 (6): Can tell minute differences among many situations
24-25 (7): Nearly prescient, able to reason far beyond logic
Charisma
1 (–5): Barely conscious, incredibly tactless and non-empathetic
2-3 (–4): Minimal independent thought, relies heavily on others to think instead
4-5 (–3): Has trouble thinking of others as people
6-7 (–2): Terribly reticent, uninteresting, or rude
8-9 (–1): Something of a bore or makes people mildly uncomfortable
10-11 (0): Capable of polite conversation
12-13 (1): Mildly interesting, knows what to say to the right people
14-15 (2): Interesting, knows what to say to most people
16-17 (3): Popular, receives greetings and conversations on the street
18-19 (4): Immediately likeable by many people, subject of favorable talk
20-21 (5): Life of the party, able to keep people entertained for hours
22-23 (6): Immediately likeable by almost everybody
24-25 (7): Renowned for wit, personality, and/or looks

https://www.dmingwithcharisma.com/2011/10/dd-stats-in-simple-language/



Intelligence, measuring reasoning and memory
Wisdom, measuring perception and insight
Charisma, measuring force of personality

Wisdom provides the insight, Intelligence provides the complexity, and Charisma is the force of personality. But force of personality is not enough information to explain this aspect of mind since it is a third of D&D’s theory of mind.

Higher charisma means you are able to better able to modulate your emotional output with intensity but also the more graceful you are able to dexteriously move through the insight and complexity that wisdom and intelligence brings to one’s attention. One can better able to play with these two things which are in tension below (not official D&D language)


Emotions (E) is judgement of the infectiousness of expressions and emotional states, the appeal of a message or image and how someone will react emotionally. E is geared towards feelings and assesses situations based on how people feel, looking to convey one's emotions as authentically as possible, making communication exaggerated and charged with passion. In this sense, E is the opposite of Pragmatism. E approaches people in terms of how they are made to feel, provoking and changing people's emotions through expressive actions in order to raise excitement and enthusiasm. In this sense, is the inverse of Relations.
Relations (R) is responsible for understanding the quality, nature, and appropriate distance of personal relations; makes subjective judgments; and aspires to goodness of character. R has a strong understanding of a person's nature and intentions, one person's feelings towards another, their attitudes of like or dislike, and based on this information, how intimate or distant a relationship should be.


Force of Personality (Charisma) notices when one is getting pushbacks from others in the relations part. They like or dislike you, and thus it can pivot and try different tactics. It may not understand why you are annoyed, or why you hate a person but it can still sense something is off even if other processes of mind (Wisdom and Intelligence) will explain why you are succeeding or failing.

Charisma can measure things like you are able to sense something is annoyed or this is super effective with getting desired result, but explaining why this black box did not get the desired outcome it intended to is about Wisdom and Intelligence.