Is there a spell/magic item that does this?

[gellerche]

We've seen battles in OOTS where one side does something preemptively to make the other side blow their opening move (Xykon vs. mega-Vaarsuvius, OOTS vs. the vampiric dwarven clan). In the Final Battle against Team Evil, I was wondering if OOTS could trick T.E. into unloading spells unnecessarily against a dummy target. But since Xykon is immune to illusions, the target would have to actually exist.

So my question is: Is there a spell/item that could duplicate the bodies of OOTS for at least a few turns, even if those bodies had no powers or abilities other than to follow simple commands (e.g. "Run at Xykon and shout 'Booga, booga!'".)? I looked at Simulacrum, but that has an illusory component that Xykon would see through.

Note: I'm not asking if OOTS should use this strategy or even if it's a good idea. I'm just curious if it can be done.

Thanks!

[Psepha]

I'm not sure about actually making replicas of the party themselves, but we did see the Order use summoned targets to soak traps/spells when they were attacking the High Priest of Hel (admittedly with Hilgya's summons), so it might cross their minds - although summoning generally isn't something the Order can make use of easily

[InvisibleBison]

Xykon isn't immune to illusions. He's immune to mind-affecting attacks by virtue of being a lich, but not all illusions are mind-affecting. Notably, silent image and its more advanced versions, which are perfect for this job, are not mind-affecting and would work fine against Xykon.

[gellerche]

Xykon isn't immune to illusions. He's immune to mind-affecting attacks by virtue of being a lich, but not all illusions are mind-affecting. Notably, silent image and its more advanced versions, which are perfect for this job, are not mind-affecting and would work fine against Xykon.

I looked up silent image and you're right that it would work in this case. It also wipes out the central premise of my question, but thank you for giving me better information.

[Quartz]

So my question is: Is there a spell/item that could duplicate the bodies of OOTS for at least a few turns,

Rather than duplicating the OOTS, how about duplicating Team Evil with a Mirror of Opposition?

[Riftwolf]

Rather than duplicating the OOTS, how about duplicating Team Evil with a Mirror of Opposition?

Hey, no misuse of Poorly Imported Literary Plot Devices.

[Quizatzhaderac]

Maybe a bunch of illusory ghost paladins; with Roy glamoured to look like Soon, so at least one of them will be able to hit.

[gellerche]

Maybe a bunch of illusory ghost paladins; with Roy glamoured to look like Soon, so at least one of them will be able to hit.

I like this - Xykon is a "hit it with a club until it dies" character so this should get him to spend at least one round and some spells.

[danielxcutter]

Considering Soon almost destroyed him, that's asking for a Maximized Magic Missile straight to the face. Though that's better than a Maximized Energy Drain.

Also, Roy would need a Fly spell at minimum. Can't duplicated the incorporeality but might not matter if it's in an area of multidimensional stone.

[Squire Doodad]

Do Bards get some sort of "throw your voice" spell? I can't recall.
Still, Silent Image with Elan making an accompanying voice line that goes "Xykon, we've come to bargain" would have a decent chance of getting him to burn at least one spell.

For best effect, make the party go in with their old clothes with one Silent Image, then another with their current clothes admonishing Xykon for attacking the illusion, and then the actual party comes in, but Xykon has wised up and throws a rock at Roy's fleshy leg instead of a Chain Lightning.



The Soon Ghost Army idea makes me think of a superior version of the Pyramid plan, with Durkon (and Minrah, though idk if she's able to) calling in a slew of Devas and putting glamours on them so they look like more sacred watchers. And in some fakes via a high level illusion of some sort, maybe a "we, souls of the Sapphire Guard's greatest, rivaling even Soon in power" speech, and you could distract Xykon for at least a little.
Of course this heavily relies on 1) out of character knowledge and 2) Elan and Durkon being effectively useful

[Smoutwortel]

Xykon isn't immune to illusions. He's immune to mind-affecting attacks by virtue of being a lich, but not all illusions are mind-affecting. Notably, silent image and its more advanced versions, which are perfect for this job, are not mind-affecting and would work fine against Xykon.

He also has truesight by virtue of being a lich.

[hungrycrow]

He also has truesight by virtue of being a lich.

3.5 liches don't have truesight, otherwise Xykon wouldn't need a listen check to find an invisible V. You might be thinking of 5e?

[Psyren]

Haley could whip something up probably. (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0608.html)

Another way to make the enemy waste resources is to pre-buff with (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1117.html) appropriate defenses. (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1215.html)

[littlebum2002]

Major Image (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/majorImage.htm) is just like Silent Image except that you can add sound, smell and heat. Although the smell part wouldn't be of much use for tricking Xykon. But if the Order waited until after Xykon and Redcloak did a few dungeons one day and then sent in a major image of them screaming, it might get Xykon to use up a couple more big spells which would make the subsequent battle much easier.

Although now that they know that the Order is here, they are hopefully much less likely to attempt a bunch of dungeons in one day knowing that an ambush could be coming any time.

[pearl jam]

Major Image (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/majorImage.htm) is just like Silent Image except that you can add sound, smell and heat. Although the smell part wouldn't be of much use for tricking Xykon. But if the Order waited until after Xykon and Redcloak did a few dungeons one day and then sent in a major image of them screaming, it might get Xykon to use up a couple more big spells which would make the subsequent battle much easier.

Although now that they know that the Order is here, they are hopefully much less likely to attempt a bunch of dungeons in one day knowing that an ambush could be coming any time.

I think you meant regrettably unless this is your way of coming out for Team Evil! :smallannoyed:


:smallbiggrin:

[littlebum2002]

I think you meant regrettably unless this is your way of coming out for Team Evil! :smallannoyed:


:smallbiggrin:

Well yeah from our perspective it is regrettable lol but I was talking about their way of seeing it.

[pearl jam]

Talking just like a spy!

[Exantius]

Although now that they know that the Order is here, they are hopefully much less likely to attempt a bunch of dungeons in one day knowing that an ambush could be coming any time.

Do they know the Order is there though? They only ever saw Durkon and Minrah, Durkon said to Redcloak he there was there as an emissary of Thor and not the Order and the last time he saw the Order (but not Durkon) was when he ordered a sand elemental to kill them, and Oona doesn't know and Xycon doesn't remember there is an Order in the first place.

If I recall correctly when chasing Durkon and Minrah team Evil only ever mentions the dwarves, not the rest of the order; maybe they actually believe that they came there alone and aren't a threat, making them take unnecessary risks

[hungrycrow]

Do they know the Order is there though? They only ever saw Durkon and Minrah, Durkon said to Redcloak he there was there as an emissary of Thor and not the Order and the last time he saw the Order (but not Durkon) was when he ordered a sand elemental to kill them, and Oona doesn't know and Xycon doesn't remember there is an Order in the first place.

If I recall correctly when chasing Durkon and Minrah team Evil only ever mentions the dwarves, not the rest of the order; maybe they actually believe that they came there alone and aren't a threat, making them take unnecessary risks

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1216.html Redcloak at least puts two and two together.

[RatElemental]

I suppose clone followed by animate dead might work. Clone creates a perfect replica of the creature but it's treated as a corpse until said creature dies and their soul moves into it. Even going so far as to need gentle repose cast on it to keep it viable for the transfer long term.

Animate object might arguably work too, since corpses are technically objects, but if it did they'd probably move unnaturally like having the bones in their legs turn into noodles as they walk or something. In this art style that would be hard to tell the difference from though.

[gellerche]

Animate object might arguably work too, since corpses are technically objects, but if it did they'd probably move unnaturally like having the bones in their legs turn into noodles as they walk or something. In this art style that would be hard to tell the difference from though.

I can see this working, maybe with an illusion spell to smooth over the rough edges of unnatural movement. When I originally posted this I thought there would be 2 or 3 ways, at most, of deceiving Team Evil. But so many people (like yourself) have had ideas that do it in one step or combine effects with something else via clever spellcasting that the options could be over a dozen!

This of course assumes that Elan doesn't blow it by shouting "I got a 4!"

[Lord Torath]

Do they know the Order is there though? They only ever saw Durkon and Minrah, Durkon said to Redcloak he there was there as an emissary of Thor and not the Order and the last time he saw the Order (but not Durkon) was when he ordered a sand elemental to kill them, and Oona doesn't know and Xycon doesn't remember there is an Order in the first place.

If I recall correctly when chasing Durkon and Minrah team Evil only ever mentions the dwarves, not the rest of the order; maybe they actually believe that they came there alone and aren't a threat, making them take unnecessary risks
https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1216.html Redcloak at least puts two and two together.Durkon also mentions "my team (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1208.html)", and this is after Redcloak has identified him a a member of the Order of the Stick (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1205.html) (even if he seems to have forgotten he knew their name (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0104.html)).

[Nymrod]

True Seeing actually doesn't have a massive range, you could have an illusion taunt an enemy from a distance and maintain their distance as they move long enough to at least make them waste some spell slots.
The usual tactic to soak spells though remains summoning. While V doesn't have access conjurations, Durkon and Minrah do.

I still think the best option by far is to use antimagic. Yes the order has plenty of magic but Xykon and Redcloak outgun V and Durkon with ease. Antimagic would shut down not only spells but also most of Xykon's lich special attacks and defenses. In melee the Order would destroy Xykon and Redcloak, even with Oona there; they'd have to depend on the Monster in the Dark and there if they fight together with O-Chul that should not be a problem.

The issue of course is that Disjunction can stop Antimagic brought by a spell. It cannot however stop the antimagic of a beholder. Sunny actually had a massive tactical disadvantage in the recentfight; the shape of the room did not really allow her to keep everyone in her vision; in gameplay you will usually find beholders creating multiple vertical tunnels (and positioning themselves in such a manner that they can hurl things with telekinesis inside their antimagic area if they need to). However much of the cave system IS made of narrow tunnels. An ambush where the Order manages to get on both sides of Xykon's group with Sunny behind them keeping the corridor under Antimagic would be a killing ground with the melee disparity here.

[brian 333]

Best tactic is Roy using Grandpa Greenhilt's Spellsplinter attack to prevent Xykon from casting while V uses counter spell on Redcloak and the rest of the team takes out minions then joins the attack on Xykon. Durkon might have to help V.