Rings of Power - First Teaser Trailer

[Palanan]

Just out:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhqGCPMfkNM



Not...overly impressed.

The voice acting just doesn't work for me. Really hoping that's not the new Galadriel.

Otherwise, eh. This is just the humidity ahead of the first droplet. But I'm at least open to seeing more, depending on the era and the storyline. Presumably we'll see the forging of the Rings themselves, and that could open up a completely new vision of Middle-Earth.

[Peelee]

Imean, there's not much to be impressed about. It's a title announcement, pretty much. Not much else.

I agree that the reading of the poem left a bit to be desired.

[HeyHoWhatUpYo]

Yeah, that looks not overly interesting. It's been so long since LOTR, and so much fantasy is just a rip off of LOTR... why can't we just get something new in the fantasy genre? Do we need to keep rehashing old stuff all the time? Something new please.

[Peelee]

Yeah, that looks not overly interesting. It's been so long since LOTR, and so much fantasy is just a rip off of LOTR... why can't we just get something new in the fantasy genre? Do we need to keep rehashing old stuff all the time? Something new please.

Like what, for example?

[HeyHoWhatUpYo]

Like what, for example?

Are you asking me to pitch you an idea for a new fantasy show? Wow, that's a lot of pressure for someone not in that business and especially since it wasn't something I was actively looking to do, but alrighty...

A thousand years ago moles and dragons fought for control of the land. A many ages long war saw calamity and ruin brought down upon the world. The moles were steadily losing (because they're moles, and we're talking freaking dragons here, man) so they gathered as much food and resources as they could and went to live deep underground (instead of just kinda in a hole near the surface... like, they were technically underground but now they're UNDERGROUND, ya dig?) The dragons ran out of their primary food source, moles, so they began to starve or worse turn to cannibalism. Only the most wretched and vile of dragons, the ones that would hunt, kill, and eat their own kind survived. Soon the dragons ran out of even other dragons to eat. In a move of desperation, the oldest, wisest, most powerfulest, and asshattiest amongst them devised a means for their survival. The dragons went into stasis, in petrified eggs, inside one big ass volcano.

Flash forwards a bajillionish years. The world has flourished and all kinds of new life has sprung up in the absence of the moles and dragons. Now men rule the world and with men in power comes all the scheming and plotting and plays for power that made Game of Thrones so much money. Nations war with one another and political machinations see the rise and fall of new regents. However, deep in the belly of the world, things are rumbling. That big ass volcano is about to SPLODE, and who can hear things rumbling deep underground first? That's right, moles. But the ages have been kind to the moles as well. Deep underground they evolved and created an advanced society of molemen (or molefolk depending on if Disney is producing or not.) The molemen race to the surface in hopes of somehow sealing off the volcano that they know the petrified eggs are in (because some shaman told them or something... magic!) but when they reach the surface they see they're not alone against the dragons.

Molepeeps try their hardest to make peace with the humans in order to ally with them against the return of the dragons. It's hard work to convince humans to trust a bunch of dirty molemen though (that's not a pejorative because they literally dig through the dirt, you see) especially when it means allying with their own human enemies as well. The main thrust of the show will be humans and molemen trying to work together through their own short comings to face off against the return of evil cannibalistic dragons.

It's called Game of Moles: The Return of The King Dragon. It's a working title.

[warty goblin]

Yeah, that looks not overly interesting. It's been so long since LOTR, and so much fantasy is just a rip off of LOTR... why can't we just get something new in the fantasy genre? Do we need to keep rehashing old stuff all the time? Something new please.

Fantasy hasn't been made up of Tolkien clones for well over a decade at this point. So far as I can tell, the only fantasy works that still even use elves and dwarves and so on are either actually games or books based on said games, because "dwarf" signifies a useful bundle of mechanics. Outside of that, modern fantasy is, so far as I can tell, made up of oppressed wizards solving colonialism, princesses solving colonialism, and just acres of very unsubtle self discovery and found families. The Tolkien clone is about as relevant to modern fantasy as the planetary romance is to modern sci-fi; a niche curio at best.

I'm not even sure you could say fantasy TV is particularly Tolkienesque. Like, maybe Wheel of Time if you really work at it, and the Witcher has dragons and elves and absolutely nothing else in common with LoTR. Outside of that I guess there's the new teenaged chosen and probably oppressed wizard series that Netflix puts out on the regular, and that's kinda it.


In regards to the actual trailer, I so miss when film contained films of things. It's metal bring cast, you could do it with some sand, a kiln, and like $100 of brass. Would look way better than shonky CG, to say nothing of the painful water effects.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by warty goblin
Outside of that, modern fantasy is, so far as I can tell, made up of oppressed wizards solving colonialism, princesses solving colonialism, and just acres of very unsubtle self discovery and found families.

Sounds like I haven’t been missing very much. : /

[warty goblin]

Sounds like I haven’t been missing very much. : /

To be fair, you probably shouldn't take my word for it too seriously. I don't read thst much modern fantasy anymore, so most of my impressions come from book reviews and back covers. The second are often clearly designed to target whateverthe trends areat the moment whether or not it's a particularly fair description if the book, and I strongly suspect that the review staff of tor.com could make literally any book ever written sound completely insufferable. It's like a super power; the more they praise something the less I want to read it.

I think at this point I can probably safely start describing myself as a curmudgeon. Finally.

[Tyndmyr]

Like what, for example?

A high budget Discworld adaptation could be glorious. I'm aware of the existing movies, and they are fine for what they are, but a triple A release they are not, yknow?

[Eldan]

I'd quite like a good Witcher TV series.

(Okay, kidding :P)

But there's good modern fantasy. Even if people may think it's too political somtimes, I like some of the political stuff, if it's well done.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Eldan
But there's good modern fantasy.

Any recommendations?

[Peelee]

Any recommendations?

I'm a fan of The Dragon Prince.

[Zevox]

Imean, there's not much to be impressed about. It's a title announcement, pretty much. Not much else.

I agree that the reading of the poem left a bit to be desired.
Agreed. Though to be fair on the poem, it's kind of inevitable that you'll get compared to Galadriel's reading of it from the start of Fellowship, and it's going to be tough not to fall short of that.

But yeah, it's just a title, and not exactly an unusual or evocative one, so... whatever. Let me know when they have something of substance to show to give me a better idea of whether I'm even slightly interested.

[Eldan]

Agreed. Though to be fair on the poem, it's kind of inevitable that you'll get compared to Galadriel's reading of it from the start of Fellowship, and it's going to be tough not to fall short of that.

But yeah, it's just a title, and not exactly an unusual or evocative one, so... whatever. Let me know when they have something of substance to show to give me a better idea of whether I'm even slightly interested.

My first thought when I read the thread title was assuming Marvel was making a Ten Rings streaming series.


Any recommendations?

I mean, what do you like? Books or TV series? Movies? Anime? Any particular subgenres? Fantasy is very broad.

[DavidSh]

In regards to the actual trailer, I so miss when film contained films of things. It's metal bring cast, you could do it with some sand, a kiln, and like $100 of brass. Would look way better than shonky CG, to say nothing of the painful water effects.
The word is that this was not CG, but actual metal being filmed.

[Sapphire Guard]

Heh, audiences hate CG, but they're never as good at identifying it as they think.

Welp, essentially no information in that, it's a title screen.

Fantasy genre was always pretty diverse, it was never just Tolkien Clones (and there were never even as many of them as people think. I can't think of that many that were 'adventuring party, destroy the powerful artifact' as opposed to 'protect it, learn to use it'. What do you mean by Tolkien clone exactly?

[Fyraltari]

The trailer being practical effects is a good sign, but there's still so much nothing known about this that I am strongly neutral about it.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

But yeah, it's just a title, and not exactly an unusual or evocative one, so... whatever. Let me know when they have something of substance to show to give me a better idea of whether I'm even slightly interested.

Second this.


My first thought when I read the thread title was assuming Marvel was making a Ten Rings streaming series.

I was hoping for another Sonic 2 trailer myself.

[ben-zayb]

I was hoping for another Sonic 2 trailer myself.I'm not sure whether to feel relieved or disappointed that this isn't about a Captain Planet live action series.

[Peelee]

I'm not sure whether to feel relieved or disappointed that this isn't about a Captain Planet live action series.

Imean it still can be if they take certain liberties with the text.

[Dienekes]

Any recommendations?

Joe Abercrombie is my go to for modern fantasy. But I will say he has a very dark sense of humor. One of his best characters is a professional torturer and one of the funniest scenes involves a sociopath murdering prisoners for increasingly flimsy reasoning. I love it, but it isn't everyone's cup of tea.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

Any recommendations?

I will recommend the Termeraire series, by Naomi Novik.


Imean it still can be if they take certain liberties with the text.

“By your powers combined, I am Captain Mordor!”

Nazgul: “Go, Mordor!”

[Dire_Flumph]

I will recommend the Termeraire series, by Naomi Novik.

It never fails to astonish me that at the very least His Majesty's Dragon hasn't made it to screen yet. The Napoleonic Wars, but with a draconic Air Force. I so want to see that.

[Eldan]

It never fails to astonish me that at the very least His Majesty's Dragon hasn't made it to screen yet. The Napoleonic Wars, but with a draconic Air Force. I so want to see that.

I'd call it the second best fantasy about the Napoleonic Wars I've read, after Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norell.

[Clertar]

The word is that this was not CG, but actual metal being filmed.

Indeed it was:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZEpWvQFXqQ

[warty goblin]

OK my bad on it being cg, and props to them for doing it right. Maybe it was the color grading or something, because I still maintain that the actual result looks... not good.

[Fyraltari]

Heh, audiences hate CG, but they're never as good at identifying it as they think.

It's not actually the CGI that people dislike, but the feeling of unrealness that comes with it when it's poorly done.

For whatever reason, this trailer does give off the same feeling despite being all practical effects. It looks fake, too polished to be true. Maybe it's an editing thing, I dunno.

[Peelee]

OK my bad on it being cg, and props to them for doing it right. Maybe it was the color grading or something, because I still maintain that the actual result looks... not good.


It's not actually the CGI that people dislike, but the feeling of unrealness that comes with it when it's poorly done.

For whatever reason, this trailer does give off the same feeling despite being all practical effects. It looks fake, too polished to be true. Maybe it's an editing thing, I dunno.

Post processing, most likely.

[Fyraltari]

I'm not sure whether to feel relieved or disappointed that this isn't about a Captain Planet live action series.
Imean it still can be if they take certain liberties with the text.
There's a Joueur du Grenier video that makes this exact joke. I'd link to it, but I doubt Da Rulz allow profanities when they aren't in English.

[GloatingSwine]

I will recommend the Termeraire series, by Naomi Novik.


At least the first few. It sort of tails off a bit at the end.

[The Glyphstone]

At least the first few. It sort of tails off a bit at the end.

Agreed. The worldbuilding gets more detailed and interesting but the focus on the original core story about the European War gets diluted badly.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

At least the first few. It sort of tails off a bit at the end.

I agree and I don’t. IMO it peaks around book 4-5 but the weakest books are 3 and 6. I got the impression that 9 was setting up a later series but if so it has yet to materialize.

[Corvus]

The voice over delivery just didn't work for me. I know Cate Blanchett is kind of a hard act to follow, so perhaps try not to copy it and suffer in comparison?

It isn't like Galadriel (whom I guess that is meant to be) is the only lore worthy figure who could do it. There is Sauron himself for example.

[ecarden]

At least the first few. It sort of tails off a bit at the end.

I tend to agree, though I dropped out around 5-6 so I'm uncertain on the later ones? The one in Australia is quite painful, but what made me stop was that at a certain point the interesting worldbuilding she wanted to do started to conflict a lot with the central conceit of the series 'Napoleonic Wars, but with Dragons' as it no longer made sense that the world she'd created had the history which led to that conflict and my suspension of disbelief became unsuspended.

ETA:


The voice over delivery just didn't work for me. I know Cate Blanchett is kind of a hard act to follow, so perhaps try not to copy it and suffer in comparison?

It isn't like Galadriel (whom I guess that is meant to be) is the only lore worthy figure who could do it. There is Sauron himself for example.

Hard to evaluate the voice over without knowing who it's supposed to be. If it's Galadrial, in the full flower of her power, then yeah, doesn't work for me. Reads as a younger person to me, but I haven't been following the press on this, so I don't know much about the plan.

[Sapphire Guard]

I wonder how often a bad practical effect is blamed on CGI.

Maybe casting real metal doesn't look like how we think it looks.

[warty goblin]

I wonder how often a bad practical effect is blamed on CGI.

Maybe casting real metal doesn't look like how we think it looks.

I've cast metal in open face molds, and watched a lot of metal casting videos, I know how it looks. The behind the scenes snippet looked like metal being cast, its just the trailer itself that looks off to me. The casting matrix and water come off worse than the metal itself, I think because of the weird color grading and uncertain scale.

[JadedDM]

Morfydd Clark has been confirmed to be playing Galadriel in this show, and I'm reasonably sure that is her voice in the teaser.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by JadedDM
Morfydd Clark has been confirmed to be playing Galadriel in this show, and I'm reasonably sure that is her voice in the teaser.

So, a younger Galadriel. I can handle that, although as I recall even in her youth Galadriel was quite the spitfire.

Do we know anything about the timeframe of the series, other than thousands of years before Frodo?

[Fyraltari]

So, a younger Galadriel. I can handle that, although as I recall even in her youth Galadriel was quite the spitfire.

Do we know anything about the timeframe of the series, other than thousands of years before Frodo?

All info I remember was "Second Age", which fits with the title.

[Clertar]

Given the title, it will most likely start with Sauron amassing power in Mordor at the beginning of the Second Age, and the arrival of Annatar in Eregion. And it will probably end with the Second Age, when Sauron is defeated in the war with the Last Alliance of Elves and Men. Depending on the success, they could also go on and do a sequel Third Age series with the cast of the original one.

[warty goblin]

So, a younger Galadriel. I can handle that, although as I recall even in her youth Galadriel was quite the spitfire.

Do we know anything about the timeframe of the series, other than thousands of years before Frodo?

If anything, she mellowed with age. A couple thousand years will do that I suppose.

My biggest concerns with the series are

1: there's basically just history style materials for the Second Age, which means lots of things are known to happen, but there's little detail on specific scenes, who said what, and so on. The writers have to create almost everything more detailed than the plot summary from whole cloth. My faith on the ability of modern writers to capture the feeling of Tolkien is extremely limited, the difference in worldview, experience, and beliefs is just too great.


2: Since everything beyond the plot summary is going to be created from whole cloth, there's no brake on the writers indulging the worst tendencies of modern episodic TV. You know, every character has to do some MAX DRAMA crap every episode, but almost none of it actually matters because the show is gonna be mostly binge-watched by tired people who miss about 25% of the plot, but need something excitingto be happening even they ate conscious. Or scenes you swear are just stuck in so the boring people live-tweeting it can go all caps about how the character they stan just did the awesome thing. Or time and space collapsing on the regular because the writers need some more MAX DRAMA, and also all live in, like, New York City, and are unfamiliar with the thing you want being 200 miles away and actually hard to get to.

Basically what I'm saying is the bit where this is almost entirely written by modern people for a very restrictive modern format terrifies me.

[Eldan]

What, you don't want to see that sweet, sweet will-they-won't-they romance between Galadriel and Sauron?

[Corvus]

So, a younger Galadriel. I can handle that, although as I recall even in her youth Galadriel was quite the spitfire.

Do we know anything about the timeframe of the series, other than thousands of years before Frodo?

She wasn't young though. Galadriel was one of the oldest living elves around even then, having been born in Valinor before the sun and moon existed and returned to middle Earth in the war against Morgoth.

[ereinion]

If anything, she mellowed with age. A couple thousand years will do that I suppose.

My biggest concerns with the series are

1: there's basically just history style materials for the Second Age, which means lots of things are known to happen, but there's little detail on specific scenes, who said what, and so on. The writers have to create almost everything more detailed than the plot summary from whole cloth. My faith on the ability of modern writers to capture the feeling of Tolkien is extremely limited, the difference in worldview, experience, and beliefs is just too great.


2: Since everything beyond the plot summary is going to be created from whole cloth, there's no brake on the writers indulging the worst tendencies of modern episodic TV. You know, every character has to do some MAX DRAMA crap every episode, but almost none of it actually matters because the show is gonna be mostly binge-watched by tired people who miss about 25% of the plot, but need something excitingto be happening even they ate conscious. Or scenes you swear are just stuck in so the boring people live-tweeting it can go all caps about how the character they stan just did the awesome thing. Or time and space collapsing on the regular because the writers need some more MAX DRAMA, and also all live in, like, New York City, and are unfamiliar with the thing you want being 200 miles away and actually hard to get to.

Basically what I'm saying is the bit where this is almost entirely written by modern people for a very restrictive modern format terrifies me.

I share these concerns as well, and honestly I am uncertain I'll even give it a chance considering what disappointments the last few fantasy shows I tried were.

[Anteros]

In my very uneducated opinion, it looks like they've upped the saturation. The colors just don't look natural. I knew going into the trailer that it wasn't CGI and still thought it looked like it.

Anyway, I'm more interested in this than anything else Amazon has put out. That's not high praise, but it's something.

[runeghost]

https://i.ibb.co/hcpn8Zw/alas-the-lord-of-the-memes-27-photos-15.jpg

[Fyraltari]

https://i.ibb.co/hcpn8Zw/alas-the-lord-of-the-memes-27-photos-15.jpg

Found the elf.

[KorvinStarmast]

It isn't like Galadriel (whom I guess that is meant to be) is the only lore worthy figure who could do it. There is Sauron himself for example. Or Cirdan the Shipwright.

What, you don't want to see that sweet, sweet will-they-won't-they romance between Galadriel and Sauron? Mordor hath no fury like an elf queen scorned! :smallbiggrin:

She wasn't young though. Galadriel was one of the oldest living elves around even then, having been born in Valinor before the sun and moon existed and returned to middle Earth in the war against Morgoth. The temptations to write a joke involving cougars is nearly too powerful to resist...

[Rodin]

Found the elf.

It's pretty much my response. Smeagol side tells me it's not going to be good, Gollum side is going "My precccioussss....."

In the past my Smeagol side has been the more reliable of the two. Not that I ever listen to him.

[Sapphire Guard]

I'm interested in a dry academic way. Don't have Amazon Prime, so won't be watching it any time soon, but I'm interested to see what the actual story will be once we have information other than the title screen. I'll probably read spoilers.

[Dire_Flumph]

It's pretty much my response. Smeagol side tells me it's not going to be good, Gollum side is going "My precccioussss....."

In the past my Smeagol side has been the more reliable of the two. Not that I ever listen to him.

Middle-Earth backstory is pretty dry reading if you aren't really invested in the worldbuilding. I'm already resigned to this pretty much being a Game of Thrones alike with random bits from the appendices tossed in the blender with a dash of sexing it up.


1: there's basically just history style materials for the Second Age, which means lots of things are known to happen, but there's little detail on specific scenes, who said what, and so on. The writers have to create almost everything more detailed than the plot summary from whole cloth. My faith on the ability of modern writers to capture the feeling of Tolkien is extremely limited, the difference in worldview, experience, and beliefs is just too great.

There is a timeline for the Second Age in the appendices which shows that the major events are all pretty spread out. I imagine the forging of the Rings of Power and the fall of Numenor are likely to happen within a few years of each other on the show however so they can cram both in. Another problem is that unless things have changed with the Tolkien estate since Christopher's passing, they only have the rights to what's sketched out in those appendices. Anything fleshed out in the Akallabêth or other Tolkien writings is off limits as those have to my knowledge never been licensed out and Christopher seemed pretty intent on keeping it that way.

[Mechalich]

There is a timeline for the Second Age in the appendices which shows that the major events are all pretty spread out. I imagine the forging of the Rings of Power and the fall of Numenor are likely to happen within a few years of each other on the show however so they can cram both in. Another problem is that unless things have changed with the Tolkien estate since Christopher's passing, they only have the rights to what's sketched out in those appendices. Anything fleshed out in the Akallabêth or other Tolkien writings is off limits as those have to my knowledge never been licensed out and Christopher seemed pretty intent on keeping it that way.

Well, one trick they can utilize is that the Elves are immortal and the Numenoreans are inhumanly long-lived. The Rings of Power are forged ~1500, and the Second Age ends in 3441, but most of the events are focused in the final 250 years or so starting with the civil strife in Numenor due to the repentance of Tar-Palantir in 3177. Notably Elendil, who makes a terrible amount of sense as the human side lead, was alive and plausibly 'adult' for all of it, having been born in 3119 and not considered by any means elderly at his death in combat with Sauron in 3441.

So if I were doing this, I'd do a prologue starting with the forging of the rings, the War of the Elves and Sauron, the emergence of the Nazgul, and the history of Numenor up to that point and then jump right into civil strife in Numenor with Elendil and do The Fall of Numenor as Season One.

[Anteros]

I'm interested in a dry academic way. Don't have Amazon Prime, so won't be watching it any time soon, but I'm interested to see what the actual story will be once we have information other than the title screen. I'll probably read spoilers.

Isn't it just a LoTR remake? I know there was some backlash at one point because the casting call they put out was for people who would look like they're from the Shire rather than being diverse.

[Fyraltari]

Isn't it just a LoTR remake? I know there was some backlash at one point because the casting call they put out was for people who would look like they're from the Shire rather than being diverse.

Nope. It's set in the Second Age, at least 3,000 years before TLotR. People keep calling it a "Lord of the Rings series" because that's the most well-known IP.

[Anteros]

Nope. It's set in the Second Age, at least 3,000 years before TLotR. People keep calling it a "Lord of the Rings series" because that's the most well-known IP.

I see. Well...I'm not sure if that makes me more interested in it or less. On the one hand, there's simply no way any show they make will ever compare to the movies we already have. On the other hand, the LoTR setting is pretty generic and after I'm not very confident in Amazon's ability to actually write something interesting on their own.

[Mechalich]

The Fall of Numenor (which interpretations of the casting suggest is broadly what they are doing) is the story of a society's descent into decadence and corruption, with some help from Sauron and that pesky desire for immortality, and its eventual collapse while only a small, faithful, element survived. It's the kind of palace drama story that Hollywood actually does quite well, generic or not.

Stylistically the show has a lot of flexibility, since while later realms such as Gondor were inspired by Numenor, they were founded by the Faithful survivors and presumably took their insights from earlier, less corrupted styles. The decadent height of the civilization can therefore appear quite different if desired. There will need to be somewhat more continuity with the films regarding Elven and Dwarven elements, but the show will presumably use them sparingly, at least early on.

[Grim Portent]

TBH I think a good show/series/set of movies would be about the 9 lords of men who became the Nazgul, and their decline into wraiths as a result of Sauron's manipulation, though Sauron's time in Numenor or his time among the elves could also be interesting. His time among Numenor the most interesting of Sauron's direct actions, but I imagine it would mostly be talking for the first stretch, and it also doesn't involve any rings of power since they were long since distributed.


A story focused on the ringwraiths would be pretty much entirely fan fiction since we don't even know the names of any of them except Khamul, let alone where they came from, when they were corrupted or really anything about them other than they were all men, all powerful in life and all expanded on their power with the rings. But I still think it would be more interesting to explore than the elven rings or the One Ring itself, though the story of a dwarven realm being led to ruin by the influence of one of the seven would also be neat.

Khamul is sometimes theorised as having once been an Easterling because of his title as the Shadow of the East, and I think Rhun falling deeper into darkness in the 2nd Age could actually be a really cool story. Mordor and the Iron Hills are both immediately adjacent, so you have dwarves and orcs, the two blue wizards could be in the area acting as counters to the dark lord's influence, plenty of room for interesting stuff to happen.

[DavidSh]

It's looking like there will be more of a trailer coming out as a Super Bowl ad, and they have released some info beforehand. Galadriel, Elrond, Celebrimbor, one of the Durins, and, somehow, Isildur, will be major characters. And a bunch of new characters Tolkien never mentioned.

[Mechalich]

It's looking like there will be more of a trailer coming out as a Super Bowl ad, and they have released some info beforehand. Galadriel, Elrond, Celebrimbor, one of the Durins, and, somehow, Isildur, will be major characters. And a bunch of new characters Tolkien never mentioned.

Isildur was born in 3209. The Fall of Numenor really revs up in 3255, when Ar-Pharazon takes power, at which time Isildur is 46. He played a significant role in the fall of Numenor and the Faithful's escape from it, and then spent roughly a century ruling Gondor before the War of the Last Alliance broke out when Sauron attacked and drove him from Minas Ithil. When he died, 2 years after the victory, he was 234 years old but was viably portrayed by a 40-year-old actor.

He actually makes a lot of sense as a major character. He's present for most of the significant events, he can reasonably be played a 30-ish actor who does all their own stunts (he can grow a beard for the final season), and his character arc involves a certain level of drama that can't possibly be applied to any of the elves who survive all of this. Also, they can put a bunch of new character in his retinue and have complete flexibility as to what to do with them.

[Noldo]

Isildur was born in 3209. The Fall of Numenor really revs up in 3255, when Ar-Pharazon takes power, at which time Isildur is 46. He played a significant role in the fall of Numenor and the Faithful's escape from it, and then spent roughly a century ruling Gondor before the War of the Last Alliance broke out when Sauron attacked and drove him from Minas Ithil. When he died, 2 years after the victory, he was 234 years old but was viably portrayed by a 40-year-old actor.

He actually makes a lot of sense as a major character. He's present for most of the significant events, he can reasonably be played a 30-ish actor who does all their own stunts (he can grow a beard for the final season), and his character arc involves a certain level of drama that can't possibly be applied to any of the elves who survive all of this. Also, they can put a bunch of new character in his retinue and have complete flexibility as to what to do with them.


Vanity Fair article (https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2022/02/amazon-the-rings-of-power-series-first-look?fbclid=IwAR2pkIOc5KzeX1dcLvZCub9m_TEVmz3LYV-eAf0oIVvEZd9gLp2NsGoY3C4) indicates that they are compressing the timeline so that the same (human) characters can be present in all key events. Very understandable choice from storytelling perspective but definitely something that can rub the people the wrong way.

Unsurprisingly the inclusion of POC actors has caused lots of online complaints, entirely unwarranted in my mind as nothing would say that there could not be diverse dwarves and having wood elves look different than noldor is even canon.

I am a bit vary about inclusion of “another” forbidden romance between an elf and a human. Half-elves were kinda unique in Tolkien’s work, but at the same time why not?.

[Divayth Fyr]

Unsurprisingly the inclusion of POC actors has caused lots of online complaints, entirely unwarranted in my mind as nothing would say that there could not be diverse dwarves and having wood elves look different than noldor is even canon.
In the case of the dwarven princess, the devil will be in the details - if they make her be from a different group, it can be workable. I feel it would be less so if she was of Durin's bloodline. More importantly though, where the hell is her beard?!


I am a bit vary about inclusion of “another” forbidden romance between an elf and a human. Half-elves were kinda unique in Tolkien’s work, but at the same time why not?.
Eh, I'd rather they find another source of conflict rather than cheapening what was quite rare and unique...

[runeghost]

Vanity Fair article (https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2022/02/amazon-the-rings-of-power-series-first-look?fbclid=IwAR2pkIOc5KzeX1dcLvZCub9m_TEVmz3LYV-eAf0oIVvEZd9gLp2NsGoY3C4) indicates that they are compressing the timeline so that the same (human) characters can be present in all key events. Very understandable choice from storytelling perspective but definitely something that can rub the people the wrong way.

Unsurprisingly the inclusion of POC actors has caused lots of online complaints, entirely unwarranted in my mind as nothing would say that there could not be diverse dwarves and having wood elves look different than noldor is even canon.

I am a bit vary about inclusion of “another” forbidden romance between an elf and a human. Half-elves were kinda unique in Tolkien’s work, but at the same time why not?.


I'm not concerned about the skin color of elves and dwarves, but I am rather alarmed by the lack of hair in some of the pictures. Elves should all have long hair - that's pretty definitive Tolkien. If they've missed that, it bodes ill, to my mind. I'm less concerned about the lack of dwarf beard... my recollection is that they've got a little wiggle room, since technically Tolkien wrote that they're impossible for outsiders to tell apart rather than explicitly bearded, so I suppose they could always all travel in mufti or something. (It's a stretch, but I can tell they'll be "stretching" a lot..)

As for the I'm not particularly worried about elf-human romance, so long as its well done. Luthien-Beren and Aragorn-Arwen were unique not just in being elf-human, but also in that they involved descendants of Melian the Maia. There are other elf-human relationships in Tolkien's writing. Elrond's other grandparents, Tuor & Idril, Galadriel's brother Aegnor and Andreth in the First Age, and Mithrellas with Imrazor in the Second age, leading to the House of Dol Amroth in the 3rd..

[Divayth Fyr]

I'm less concerned about the lack of dwarf beard... my recollection is that they've got a little wiggle room, since technically Tolkien wrote that they're impossible for outsiders to tell apart rather than explicitly bearded, so I suppose they could always all travel in mufti or something. (It's a stretch, but I can tell they'll be "stretching" a lot..
It is indeed a huge stretch, even moreso the dwarfs we see travelling proudly show their beards, and IIRC in the Hobbit Bilbo even notes how he won't be taken for a dwarf due to him being beardless. So the women being impossible to tell apart would also need to display their facial hair.

However there is a far more explicit piece of writing that kills any wiggle room


The Naugrim were ever, as they still remain, short and squat in stature; they were deep-breasted, strong in the arm, and stout in the leg, and their beards were long. Indeed this strangeness they have that no Man nor Elf has ever seen a beardless Dwarf - unless he were shaven in mockery, and would then be more like to die of shame than of many other hurts that to us would seem more deadly. For the Naugrim have beards from the beginning of their lives, male and female alike; nor indeed can their womenkind be discerned by those of other race, be it in feature or in gait or in voice, nor in any wise save this: that they go not to war, and seldom save at direst need issue from their deep bowers and halls.

[Dienekes]

I was about to comment about the lack of beards, but I see Divayth already has that covered. Thank you Divayth.

A dwarf without a beard. What is this nonsense? Dragon Age?

[Peelee]

I was about to comment about the lack of beards, but I see Divayth already has that covered. Thank you Divayth.

A dwarf without a beard. What is this nonsense? Dragon Age?

The Hobbit trilogy?

[Dienekes]

The Hobbit trilogy?

Bahh, five excellent scenes stitched together with tripe. Dwarven/elf romance? Disgraceful even if he had a proper beard.

[Peelee]

Bahh, five excellent scenes stitched together with tripe. Dwarven/elf romance? Disgraceful even if he had a proper beard.

Except for needlessly adding in the white orc as a main villain, I quite liked the first one.

[Dienekes]

Except for needlessly adding in the white orc as a main villain, I quite liked the first one.

Which movie had the amazing line "I can have anything down my trousers?" Because I'm uncertain if it was 1 or 2. But whichever it was gets a big disappointing shake of the head from me.

More seriously, I remember being disappointed with certain action beats of the early movies, and some decisions, like focusing on the elves in any way. And Galadriel and Gandalf having the hots for each other. And some points where things got really cartoony, but then suddenly they weren't, which just felt jarring.

But in all honesty, I haven't seen them since they came out. So, it has been almost a decade since I've seen the first one and my memory ain't that great.

[Peelee]

Which movie had the amazing line "I can have anything down my trousers?" Because I'm uncertain if it was 1 or 2. But whichever it was gets a big disappointing shake of the head from me.

More seriously, I remember being disappointed with certain action beats of the early movies, and some decisions, like focusing on the elves in any way. And Galadriel and Gandalf having the hots for each other. And some points where things got really cartoony, but then suddenly they weren't, which just felt jarring.

But in all honesty, I haven't seen them since they came out. So, it has been almost a decade since I've seen the first one and my memory ain't that great.

That was 2. First one stopped before they made it to Beorn. I'll admit, I also wasn't a fan of Gandalf saving them from the trolls - it seemed pretty needless when Bilbo's plan was on the cusp of working anyway, but didn't care so much about a full-on battle instead of the trolls picking them off one by one. That would have been more than a little silly put to film.

[Dienekes]

That was 2. First one stopped before they made it to Beorn. I'll admit, I also wasn't a fan of Gandalf saving them from the trolls - it seemed pretty needless when Bilbo's plan was on the cusp of working anyway, but didn't care so much about a full-on battle instead of the trolls picking them off one by one. That would have been more than a little silly put to film.

Right, right, right. That was the movie that set up the conflict between Bilbo and Thorin over respect, and then solved it at the end of the first movie with Bilbo turning into an action hero for all of one scene and so the Thorin/Bilbo relationship didn't do anything for all of movie 2 so they shifted to the dwarf/elf romance.

All I can really say was I thought that scene was a bit odd, and Riddles in the Dark was near perfect.

[Peelee]

Right, right, right. That was the movie that set up the conflict between Bilbo and Thorin over respect, and then solved it at the end of the first movie with Bilbo turning into an action hero for all of one scene and so the Thorin/Bilbo relationship didn't do anything for all of movie 2 so they shifted to the dwarf/elf romance.

All I can really say was I thought that scene was a bit odd, and Riddles in the Dark was near perfect.

I agree with almost all of that, but don't recall Bilbo turning into an action hero for any amount of time.

[Dienekes]

I agree with almost all of that, but don't recall Bilbo turning into an action hero for any amount of time.

Hyperbole on my part. Doesn't he tackle the main villain or something like that? Whatever it was, he solved the issue of Thorin not respecting him by becoming more dwarf-like rather than demonstrate the value of being a hobbit, which I kinda thought was the point of the book, with Thorin figuring out on his deathbed that Bilbo was in the right all along. Which, yeah, I thought that scene was odd.

[Peelee]

Hyperbole on my part. Doesn't he tackle the main villain or something like that? Whatever it was, he solved the issue of Thorin not respecting him by becoming more dwarf-like rather than demonstrate the value of being a hobbit, which I kinda thought was the point of the book, with Thorin figuring out on his deathbed that Bilbo was in the right all along. Which, yeah, I thought that scene was odd.

Eh, he tackles an orc and stabs him really quickly. And that's about all he accomplishes, almost entirely due to the element of surprise. I agree on everything else you're saying, though. Still foudn it enjoyable for the most part. The other two, not so much.

[runeghost]

Which movie had the amazing line "I can have anything down my trousers?" Because I'm uncertain if it was 1 or 2. But whichever it was gets a big disappointing shake of the head from me.

More seriously, I remember being disappointed with certain action beats of the early movies, and some decisions, like focusing on the elves in any way. And Galadriel and Gandalf having the hots for each other. And some points where things got really cartoony, but then suddenly they weren't, which just felt jarring.

But in all honesty, I haven't seen them since they came out. So, it has been almost a decade since I've seen the first one and my memory ain't that great.

There's a "book edit" out there in the depths of the interwebs that produces a passable film version of The Hobbit out of editing down the three (!) films. (And several other fan edits that try to improve on the original in various flavors of 'less is more'.)

[Corvus]

Don't own Prime so won't be watching it. Even if I did, I still probably wouldn't be.

Modern style haircuts, modern style clothes, beardless female dwarves. It looks too clean and neat - I was going to say too cosplayish, but most cosplayers do a better job. In the shots where Galadriel has her ears covered up you wouldn't even know she was an elf. With Jackson's elves, you could tell they were elves even if you couldn't see their ears.

And the article itself has a couple of major flags. Galadriel was already old by that stage. She had been born before the sun and moon had been created, she had lived in Valinor and see then Valar, had seen Morgoth and the Silmarils and came to Middle Earth following their theft. She was one of the oldest, and most likely most powerful, elf still living in Middle Earth in the time this is set.

But the big problem from the article is that the whole project has been given to two people who didn't even have an IMDb page prior to this and got the job on the recommendation of J.J. Abrams. Handing over a half billion dollar project to two unknowns really is a little worrying.

I could be wrong. I hope I am wrong. We shall just have to see.

[runeghost]

Don't own Prime so won't be watching it. Even if I did, I still probably wouldn't be.

Modern style haircuts, modern style clothes, beardless female dwarves. It looks too clean and neat - I was going to say too cosplayish, but most cosplayers do a better job. In the shots where Galadriel has her ears covered up you wouldn't even know she was an elf. With Jackson's elves, you could tell they were elves even if you couldn't see their ears.

And the article itself has a couple of major flags. Galadriel was already old by that stage. She had been born before the sun and moon had been created, she had lived in Valinor and see then Valar, had seen Morgoth and the Silmarils and came to Middle Earth following their theft. She was one of the oldest, and most likely most powerful, elf still living in Middle Earth in the time this is set.

But the big problem from the article is that the whole project has been given to two people who didn't even have an IMDb page prior to this and got the job on the recommendation of J.J. Abrams. Handing over a half billion dollar project to two unknowns really is a little worrying.

I could be wrong. I hope I am wrong. We shall just have to see.

This feels like Game of Thrones cargo-cultism. "Hey, HBO got two unknowns to adapt Martin's work, and it was a smash hit until they ran out of material had to do stuff on their own. Why don't we get two even more unknowns to start doing stuff on their own right out of the gate!"

On the one hand, I don't think this is automatically damning - although I'm far more worried by "J.J. Abrams" than "unknowns". Abrams is decent at style but terrible at nuanced substance, and if you don't have nuanced substance, you end up with a show that's something else cosplaying as Tolkien's LotR, the worst of both worlds.

To make high fantasy work, the story needs to include what Ursula K. LeGuin called "the language of Elfland". You can't just dress up generic "content" in high fantasy drag (or space opera drag) and expect it to work as high fantasy (or space opera). Jackson's LotR adaptation wasn't perfect, but I think his production as a whole really did grok Tolkien's work, and paid a great attention to the source material, and when it deviated (generally to the detriment of the story), they at least did so deliberately.

Anyway, trailer had cool music, interesting visuals, and not much else. Seems like they might be going with the version of the legendarium that has Galadriel leaving Valinor on her own. What that means for the First Age, IDK. Ideally, they'll touch on First Age material enough to give the setting depth, but I'm not holding my breath.

[Palanan]

And here's the trailer itself:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qN_3HITC7U



I don't mind what I see, what little there is of it. Guardedly looking forward to more.

[Eldan]

Is that supposed to be Galadriel? Why does she look like a teenager?

[Whoracle]

Is that supposed to be Galadriel? Why does she look like a teenager?

Was asking myself the same. The trailer doesn't look OMGWORSTTHINGEVAR or anything like that, but I kinda fail to understand what tone they're going for. Trailer gives off kind of a Narnia vibe, what with the children and teenagers...

[Mechalich]

Is that supposed to be Galadriel? Why does she look like a teenager?

Yeah. I can see Galadriel looking younger, since during the Second Age, especially prior to the forging of the Rings things are looking up and she should be a lot less world-weary compared to during the War of the Ring, but that's different from actively youthful.

[JadedDM]

The actress portraying Galadriel is Morfydd Clark, who is 32 years old. So definitely not a teenager.

[Clertar]

The actress portraying Galadriel is Morfydd Clark, who is 32 years old. So definitely not a teenager.

That is exactly the same age that Cate Blanchett, born in 1969, was in 2001.

[Cikomyr2]

I suppose i dont mind that while elves age ageless, their features could evolve over thousands of years.

But Elrond having the exact same devil's horns between the battle of the Last Alliance and the War of the Ring sunk that idea.

[Fyraltari]

I suppose i dont mind that while elves age ageless, their features could evolve over thousands of years.

But Elrond having the exact same devil's horns between the battle of the Last Alliance and the War of the Ring sunk that idea.

Does it really matter, though?
Cinema comminicates visually so what are these images trying to say? Elrond looking the exact same over three thousand years is a way to tell an audience that elves are flat-out immortal, not merely long-lived without having two characters discussing it even though they both already know.

Galadriel looking younger than she does in lotr communicates that she is less experienced than she will be then. That does not exactly fit with the books' timeline, but you don't judge an adaptation by its adherence to minutia.

[runeghost]

TBH I think a good show/series/set of movies would be about the 9 lords of men who became the Nazgul, and their decline into wraiths as a result of Sauron's manipulation, though Sauron's time in Numenor or his time among the elves could also be interesting. His time among Numenor the most interesting of Sauron's direct actions, but I imagine it would mostly be talking for the first stretch, and it also doesn't involve any rings of power since they were long since distributed.


A story focused on the ringwraiths would be pretty much entirely fan fiction since we don't even know the names of any of them except Khamul, let alone where they came from, when they were corrupted or really anything about them other than they were all men, all powerful in life and all expanded on their power with the rings. But I still think it would be more interesting to explore than the elven rings or the One Ring itself, though the story of a dwarven realm being led to ruin by the influence of one of the seven would also be neat.

From the Downfall of Numenor in the Silmarillion, we know that three of the Nazgul were "lords of Numenorean race".

Years ago I read a piece of someone's headcanon on the internet making the case that one of the Nine - specifically, the Lord of the Nazgul, aka the Witch-King of Angmar - was a high-ranking Numenorean, a member of the royal house of Numenor, in a position to advise (and corrupt) the king, leading to internal strife and the eventual downfall of Numenor.

Here is the essay I was thinking of:
http://www.zarkanya.net/Tolkien/origins_of_Nazgul.htm


Regarding the show, I think they will be missing an obvious and powerful thread if they fail to explore the dynamics of the Annatar-Sauron collaboration.

[Wintermoot]

Is that supposed to be Galadriel? Why does she look like a teenager?

As others have already pointed out, the actress portraying Galadriel is the same age Cate Blanchet was (32) at the time of Fellowship of the Ring.

This is a known and common phenomenon. In 2001 I was 27 years old. So Cate Blanchett Galadriel, at 32, looked contemporary to me and a little bit older.

Now I'm 48 years old. So the new actress, at 32, looks "too young" for the role because Galadriel is supposed to look "contemporary, to a little bit older" than me.

[Tyndmyr]

This feels like Game of Thrones cargo-cultism. "Hey, HBO got two unknowns to adapt Martin's work, and it was a smash hit until they ran out of material had to do stuff on their own. Why don't we get two even more unknowns to start doing stuff on their own right out of the gate!"

On the one hand, I don't think this is automatically damning - although I'm far more worried by "J.J. Abrams" than "unknowns". Abrams is decent at style but terrible at nuanced substance, and if you don't have nuanced substance, you end up with a show that's something else cosplaying as Tolkien's LotR, the worst of both worlds.

Eh, HBO has kind of a habit of this. See also, Watchmen, which was another unique property passed off to a bunch of folks who were untested and clearly didn't get it, slamming a bunch of random ideas into the property and making it kind of a cursed shell of its former self.

Sci-fi and fantasy can be hard to pull off well. They have a lot of extra challenges over contemporary works, and while I enjoy the rare victory greatly, I have to admit that there have been a ton of well meaning attempts that ended up...not great.

I do agree that in LOTR, dwarves ought to be bearded, it's...well, just expected at this point.

Is this intended as a reboot, or in continuity with the original three films? They are clearly leaning on the nostalgia a bit either way, but that's just standard for hollywood these days.

[Fyraltari]

Is this intended as a reboot, or in continuity with the original three films? They are clearly leaning on the nostalgia a bit either way, but that's just standard for hollywood these days.

This is supposed to take place in the Second Age, so three thousand years before lortr. So even if it's not meant as being in-continuity with the films, I struggle to find ways they could contradict them while staying even remotely in the ballparks of the books.

[Divayth Fyr]

I see we're up for some more ridiculous elven archery shenanigans... Snatching an arrow and firing it right back...


Regarding the show, I think they will be missing an obvious and powerful thread if they fail to explore the dynamics of the Annatar-Sauron collaboration.
Are you thinking of another pair here? As-is, not much collaboration potential in the duo.

[Fyraltari]

I see we're up for some more ridiculous elven archery shenanigans... Snatching an arrow and firing it right back...


Are you thinking of another pair here? As-is, not much collaboration potential in the duo.

Runeghost probably meant to type "Ar-Pharazon" instead of Annatar.

[Divayth Fyr]

That would indeed make more sense ;)

[J-H]

If they wanted to really Game of Thrones it up (sex, lies, politics, backstabbing) they should have just gone straight for the Akallabeth. Tons of backstabbing, internal politics, marriage alliances, betrayals, and sneaky spy work going on. The corruption in Numenor also allows for the inclusion of all sorts of vices that otherwise likely would never be on-screen in Tolkein.

Of course, a narrative of a group of people corrupted by bad advice into worshiping a false god in hopes of wealth and immortality, meeting their doom as a result of their pride and disobedience of a divine command... a story where the only survivors at the people who hold fast to their faith despite persecution and go against the dominant cultural current by holding onto old values... is not a story that's going to find much favor in Hollywood. It's an epic tale, just not one that fits what the people who decide to make movies like.

I have Prime and I don't intend to watch this series. I have my beefs with Jackson, but his adaptation of LOTR is not something that is going to be easily copied or matched. Kind of like Dune 2021... on the 3rd try they got Dune right! I've gone back and watched some clips from 1983 and 2001 Dune on Youtube. They are pretty cringey.

[Talakeal]

Runeghost probably meant to type "Ar-Pharazon" instead of Annatar.

I was thinking Celebrimbor.

[runeghost]

I was thinking Celebrimbor.

Yes, that's what I meant. Annatar-Celebrimbor. Lots of room their for some interactions that could work very well on screen, if done right, all the way up through the final betrayal. Made a little sharper by the reality that Sauron/Annatar and Celebrimbor were both working on their own "secret project" unbeknownst to the other. Of course Sauron's was the One, while Celbrimbor's seemingly more noble Three. (My personal head-canon is that he intended Narya as a surprise gift to his friend and collaborator, Annatar.)

[KorvinStarmast]

Of course, a narrative of a group of people corrupted by bad advice into worshiping a false god in hopes of wealth and immortality, meeting their doom as a result of their pride and disobedience of a divine command... a story where the only survivors at the people who hold fast to their faith despite persecution and go against the dominant cultural current by holding onto old values... is not a story that's going to find much favor in Hollywood. It's an epic tale, just not one that fits what the people who decide to make movies like. It's a timeless tale; all of the really good ones are.

I have my beefs with Jackson, but his adaptation of LOTR is not something that is going to be easily copied or matched. As Sam said in Osgilliath: "We shouldn't even be here!" :smallyuk: (Haldir's family called, they want to know if they can collect on the life insurance since he died on screen, and we keep hearing him in the background saying in Python-Elvish "I'm not dead!")

As to Dune: since I respect your judgment, I'll give Dune 2021 a try.