Fulfilling sons character concept - dual pistol and cybernetically enhanced

[KyleG]

So at first look this screams artificer particularly because he wants a cyborg fox too. But dual pistols (reflavoured crossbows) doesn't play nice with artificer.
Now the cybernetics could just be descriptive flavour opening up the ranger for companion or there is the option of another class with a sidekick for the pet.

Changing the steel defender/beastmaster pet to not use your action/bonus action seems less powerful than a sidekick, (although i can see ways to reduce the power of sidekicks too), but is it too much?

Its only a party of three but still want the others to shine with their chooses (haven't settled on what they want yet).

What is the best way to achieve this do you think?

[Psyren]

You're going to need homebrew to get a worthwhile pet or offhand attack that doesn't use their bonus action.

With that said, there's no reason they can't dual-wield without the bonus action. Battlesmiths get Extra Attack, so you can simply have him fire once with each "pistol" with his attack action, and then BA command the pet - fantasy achieved.

[JLandan]

I see no reason at all that dual pistols doesn't fit with artificer. Check out some of the Iron Kingdoms setting material. It's mostly 3e or 3.5, but it translates well enough to 5e. Pistols and rifles are a mainstay, and magically enhanced pistols are common. Just fudge any proficiency issues and use them straight out of the DMG.

Cybernetic fox doesn't even sidestep from the Battlesmith companion at all. Just make it tech instead of magic.

[Psyren]

I see no reason at all that dual pistols doesn't fit with artificer. Check out some of the Iron Kingdoms setting material. It's mostly 3e or 3.5, but it translates well enough to 5e. Pistols and rifles are a mainstay, and magically enhanced pistols are common. Just fudge any proficiency issues and use them straight out of the DMG.

Cybernetic fox doesn't even sidestep from the Battlesmith companion at all. Just make it tech instead of magic.

I believe the issue is that both Crossbow Expert (for the offhand "pistol" attack) and commanding the Steel Defender compete for the character's bonus action.

(Most ranged Battlesmiths use a heavy crossbow for this reason)

[stoutstien]

So at first look this screams artificer particularly because he wants a cyborg fox too. But dual pistols (reflavoured crossbows) doesn't play nice with artificer.
Now the cybernetics could just be descriptive flavour opening up the ranger for companion or there is the option of another class with a sidekick for the pet.

Changing the steel defender/beastmaster pet to not use your action/bonus action seems less powerful than a sidekick, (although i can see ways to reduce the power of sidekicks too), but is it too much?

Its only a party of three but still want the others to shine with their chooses (haven't settled on what they want yet).

What is the best way to achieve this do you think?

With extra attack no reason to change the rules for SD. Not like it's not effective even if you don't use your bonus action to command it. The only thing you need to do is make access to at least one weapon that bypasses the loading property.

**If you don't care about balance and fun is paramount then you could just remove the ba requirements for the SD. Really comes down to how comfortable you are adjusting the others once they settle on what they want.**

[JLandan]

My group ran into a similar issue with action economy involving familiars. The DM ruled that the bonus action to command was only required to change the current command (attack, help, etc.). Thereby freeing up most rounds' bonus actions, but without totally compromising the move/action/bonus action format. Move/ action/bonus action/specific additional bonus action may be game breaking if abused.

[Brawnspear]

Battlesmith all the way, with lots of reflavoring. I agree Psyren with dual wielding without the bonus action. If damage is a concern (or the technicality of infusions), you can reflavor a heavy crossbow as a pair of handcannons: plop the Repeating Shot infusion on it and at 5th level you are shooting each "gun" once and commanding your fox as a bonus action. That's without taking crossbow expert, so you don't feel like you're not cashing in on a feat. Could also go armorer and focus on the lightning launcher and use an infusion on the homunculus or take magic initiate to grab a familiar, depending on how important he wants the fox to be in combat.

Or he could go radiant soul monk and have his ki blasts be his guns, and take 2 druid levels and the animal companion option from tasha's so he can burn his wildshape for a familiar.
Or warlock pact of the chain and go eldritch gun instead of blast. All reflavor all the time.

[Psyren]

Battlesmith all the way, with lots of reflavoring. I agree Psyren with dual wielding without the bonus action. If damage is a concern (or the technicality of infusions), you can reflavor a heavy crossbow as a pair of handcannons: plop the Repeating Shot infusion on it and at 5th level you are shooting each "gun" once and commanding your fox as a bonus action.

Yeah I would either refluff a heavy or else let the Repeating Shot infusion apply to both "guns" with one infusion.


My group ran into a similar issue with action economy involving familiars. The DM ruled that the bonus action to command was only required to change the current command (attack, help, etc.). Thereby freeing up most rounds' bonus actions, but without totally compromising the move/action/bonus action format. Move/ action/bonus action/specific additional bonus action may be game breaking if abused.

Familiars don't actually require any of your actions to command (bonus or otherwise) - was your DM thinking of homunculus or animal companion maybe?

[JLandan]

Yeah I would either refluff a heavy or else let the Repeating Shot infusion apply to both "guns" with one infusion.



Familiars don't actually require any of your actions to command (bonus or otherwise) - was your DM thinking of homunculus or animal companion maybe?

Perhaps it was companion. Was not my character. I was confusing it with another DM ruling on warlock/chain familiars and taking one of your attacks on an attack action for it to attack, when warlocks do not get extra attacks without multiclassing.

[Keravath]

My group ran into a similar issue with action economy involving familiars. The DM ruled that the bonus action to command was only required to change the current command (attack, help, etc.). Thereby freeing up most rounds' bonus actions, but without totally compromising the move/action/bonus action format. Move/ action/bonus action/specific additional bonus action may be game breaking if abused.

RAW, familiars don't require a bonus action at all. They just do whatever you want them to do.

Even conjured creatures only require verbal commands and don't impact the action economy.

To the OP, you have a few options especially if you want to homebrew it.

1) You can just ignore the ammunition property that requires a free hand to reload the crossbows (alternatively, you could give each "gun" a certain number of shots before the character needs to reload it. You could just allow the Artificer to apply the repeating shot infusion to both hand crossbows.

Wielding hand crossbows in two hands is an often cool looking image - it doesn't work well RAW but honestly it is strictly worse than just wielding one - you can make just as many attacks but you have a hand free if you need it.

So it is a style, not a balance issue.

2) As for the cybernetic pet, the steel defender also fits the role well. If the character has the xbow expert feat they can choose between firing a gun or having the pet attack.

Alternatively, you could have the guns be the equivalent of light or heavy crossbows (d8 or d10 damage) but not capable of being fired as a bonus action leaving the character free to get their pet to act if they want.

[JackPhoenix]

Speaking of familiars, a fox (from Rime of the Frost Maiden) is a tiny CR 0 animal, so comparable to other familiar options. If your son doesn't mind it won't have more direct combat use, Help action is always an option. Now, familiars are vulnerable, but nothing says they have to be attacked... if your son is young, he propably won't abuse it, so the GM (whether it's you or someone else) may be more accommodating.

[kaervaak]

Why not an artillerist?

- Dual Pistols? Check - arcane cannon and arcane firearm. Attack with a cantrip and the arcane cannon for pretty solid blasting. Spells can be flavored as alternate ammunition (web is a sticky grenade, fireball is an explosive round, etc)

- Cybernetics? Check - either fluff, use one of the infusions, or he can be an autognome or warforged

[Kane0]

So at first look this screams artificer particularly because he wants a cyborg fox too. But dual pistols (reflavoured crossbows) doesn't play nice with artificer.
Now the cybernetics could just be descriptive flavour opening up the ranger for companion or there is the option of another class with a sidekick for the pet.

Changing the steel defender/beastmaster pet to not use your action/bonus action seems less powerful than a sidekick, (although i can see ways to reduce the power of sidekicks too), but is it too much?

Its only a party of three but still want the others to shine with their chooses (haven't settled on what they want yet).

What is the best way to achieve this do you think?

Modify the Gunner feat:
- Being within 5 feet of a hostile creature doesn’t impose disadvantage on your ranged attack rolls
- You can use two-weapon fighting with one handed ranged weapons (pistols and hand crossbows)
- You can use two-weapon fighting as part of the attack action instead of using a bonus action. If you do so you cannot also use your Bonus Action to make a weapon attack on the same turn (such as by also taking crossbow expert)

Then just go Battlesmith Artificer for the fox and an Infusion to ignore loading on your primary pistol after level 5.

Edit: There's also the Find Familiar spell and Homunculus Servant Infusion as alternatives for the fox if you want to choose another Artificer subclass, like say Armorer to get a lightning launcher or Alchemist to play up a sort of Frankenstein with cyborg tech.

[Mjolnirbear]

A fun Eberron character concept is the wandslinger: flavour Eldritch Blast as guns, take a familiar via Time or Chain, and profit.

Eberron also has warforged, which are golems (magical constructs NOT ROBOTS) but so many people imagine them as robots that you could find lots of relevant art.

An alchemist doesn't have bonus action usage, so Crossbow Expert won't have interference. Have a homunculus that looks like a fox and use it for helpful things out of combat instead of its bonus action usage in combat.

A gunslinger, blood hunter, battlemaster fighter, arcane archer, rogue of any kind, or even barbarian can work, just add a familiar (use cat stats) and profit.

For the info you've provided, I'd say battlemaster warforged with CBE is probably the easiest. Give them a Spellwrought Tattoo with Find Familiar in it, or just let them have the spell.

If he wants the fox to do damage in combat, then chainlock, beastmaster ranger (use the Tasha's version), any artificer but especially battlesmith will be the superior choice.

If all they are planning is shooting, you'd prefer a martial such as a rogue or fighter. If they want spells, ranger warlock or artificer is best. If they want tech abilities, any spell can be flavoured as tech but artificer is by far the best at this.

[KyleG]

Unfortunately extra attack doesn't come on until level 5 so that doesn't quite fulfill the fantasy for him. I'm leaning towards having the steel defender or the beast if thats what he prefers being a bonus action setup or change kinda like hex/hunters mark if he wants an atacking creature. If he decides he just wants to have a pet then the problem is practically solved and he can just be a fighter or rogue dual wielding pistols, cos he doesn't want anything particularily magical. Although i would be curious how you reflavour vsm requirements for spells made into bullets aka web or whatnot.

[Greywander]

I'm going to throw a suggestion out of left field: warforged Soulknife rogue.

Warforged gives you some obvious robotic flavor. You can reflavor the Soulknife's features to also be cybernetic in nature. The soulknives can be throw, and you can "dual-wield" them, so you can just refluff them into pistols. Soulknife works best as a ranged character anyway, since there's not a compelling reason to get close when you can throw the blades.

At 3rd level, your brain implant can correct you when you make a mistake, taking control of your nervous system to save you from failure (Psi-Bolstered Knack). You can also share earpieces with your team mates in order to communicate with them silently and over long distances (Psychic Whispers).

At 9th level, you can perform short range teleports.

At 13th level, you get a cloaking device.

At 17th level, your shots can now overload the target's nervous system, stunning them for a short while.

This might not be what you're looking for, but if you can zero in on some of the mechanical features you're looking for (e.g. melee vs. ranged, spellcasting, skill monkey, blasting, etc.), you might be able to come up with a different build that you can reflavor as needed.

Another one to consider is a warlock. Eldritch Blast can easily be reflavored to some kind of gunshot, and invocations can provide nifty cybernetic enhancements.

[OldTrees1]

I recommend the Battlesmith route but reframe it slightly

Level 3-4: The Defender Fox dodges and uses its Reaction to protect its master. Its master dual wields pistols.
This is still a strong pet that is being active in combat. It positions itself to take hits and it deflects some attacks made against its master.


Level 5+: The Defender Fox is now confident enough to attack once per turn. (Either by switching the dual wielding to use Extra Attack OR by removing Extra Attack and removing the bonus action cost of the defender attack)

[Pex]

Introduce your son to the Artificer. Maybe he'll like Armorer where he can play Iron Man, but if he really wants the pistols Artillerist will do. You can flavor text the cannons as pistols. Infusions are cybernetic enhancements. Spells are buttons to press to activate powers. To be a cyborg by race there's warforged.

Edit: Missed the part about the cyborg fox. That's where Battlesmith comes in, but then you need to do something for the pistols. However, Artillerist can still work. One of the character's infusions can be the Homunculus and flavor text it as the cyborg fox.

[Sherlockpwns]

Well, RAI The class based pets require a bonus action, so does getting an extra attack.

If he doesn’t mind the fox being a “non-combat” creature you can literally just give him a cyborg fox as a pet or give him the find familiar spell as noted several times above.

If the fox is supposed to be a combatant, then I’d reflavor the Tasha summon beast spell and have him “call out” or “command” his fox as an action (cast the spell) and find a way to give him that spell (possibly in exchange for a similar ability).

Edit: on second thought…

Armorer is my choice for this. Lightning launcher in one hand, crossbow/ pistol in the other. RAW you can get find familiar and xbow xpert by level 4, which legally gives you two attacks from two “pistols”. At level 5, 3 attacks (his choice which).

Armorer also eventually adds more “cybernetics” via armor infusions, granting all kinds of fun abilities like spider climb, water breathing, or seeing in the dark.