"Minor [class]" feats

[paladinn]

I was looking for some equivalent for the C&C "class-plus" concept for 5e. On dandwiki, I found a few feats labeled "Minor" class feats that impart a few limited class features from the class in question. One in particular, "Minor Paladin", reads thusly:

Minor Paladin
Prerequisites: 13 Wisdom and 13 Charisma, does not already have the Divine Smite class feature.

You have practiced devotion to a god you worship and swear to use your mind, body, and soul to break down evil at its core. Although you may not bear the full divine power and training of a true paladin, you do gain similar abilities. They are as follows:


You may cast the spell detect evil and good once without using a spell slot. You may do so again after finishing a long rest. Charisma is your spellcasting ability for this spell.
You may restore 5 hit points to a creature that you touch. Once you do, you must finish a long rest before using it again.
When you hit a creature with an attack, you may choose to deal an additional 1d6 radiant damage to that creature, in addition to the weapon's damage. If the creature is undead or a fiend, the additional damage increases to 2d6. Once you have used this feature, you must finish a long rest to use it again.


I like this a Lot! I've always wanted to have a "paladin" build that was still very much a fighter above all. I think a fighter subclass (not sure which) with this "feat" would come close to the feel of the original OD&D paladin.

There are also options for Minor Cleric, Rogue and Barbarian. I'm wondering what other options would/could be possible.

A lot of 5e subclasses are all about incorporating class features from other classes. With this model, you don't even need a full subclass!

Thoughts? What other "Minor" feats would be cool/possible/playable?

Edit: There is also a "Minor Druid" option out there. Limited wildshape, or course! I'm wondering what abilities "Minor Ranger" might impart

[KorvinStarmast]

I've always wanted to have a "paladin" build that was still very much a fighter above all. I think a fighter subclass (not sure which) with this "feat" would come close to the feel of the original OD&D paladin. First off, OD&D paladins didn't have divine smite ... :smallwink:

[paladinn]

First off, OD&D paladins didn't have divine smite ... :smallwink:

Understood, but they also didn't cast spells. And the "dispel evil" ability was poorly defined and possibly OP. I much prefer the divine smite.

[KorvinStarmast]

Understood, but they also didn't cast spells. They picked that up in AD&D 1e, IIRC.
Paladins of 8th level and above dispel evil (spells, undead, evil enchanted monsters, and the like) simply by ordering it hence, and they detect all evil at a range of 6" {60'}. It was a hard class to qualify for when rolling in order.

Paladins with any form of "Holy Sword" are virtually immune to all magic (see MONSTERS & TREASURE, MAGIC & TREASURE, Swords).

Holy Sword +5. As a Holy Sword this weapon will display its true worth only in the hands of a Paladin. Wielded by a Paladin it negates all spells (including wands and staves and the like) in a radius of 1", thus making the Paladin virtually magic-proof. Note that vorpal blades and swords of sharpness were also holy swords by default at that point.

But for this edition, sure, the addition of the smite - a signature paladin feature - is a good choice.

Just out of curiosity, was your idea for this related to how in Tasha's they begin to pillage Warlock and Sorcerer class features (some invocations, meta magic) as feats for anyone?

[Kane0]

Just out of curiosity, was your idea for this related to how in Tasha's they begin to pillage Warlock and Sorcerer class features (some invocations, meta magic) as feats for anyone?

Seems like it.

Minor in Barbarian: Rage X per LR (minus one aspect of it), reckless attack X per LR, +10' speed
Minor in Bard: Inspiration X per LR, expertise in performance or an instrument, when taking a short rest heal an extra d4
Minor in Cleric: Turn Undead X per LR, domain spell once per LR, Cleric cantrip

And so on

[paladinn]

They picked that up in AD&D 1e, IIRC. It was a hard class to qualify for when rolling in order.

Note that vorpal blades and swords of sharpness were also holy swords by default at that point.

But for this edition, sure, the addition of the smite - a signature paladin feature - is a good choice.

Just out of curiosity, was your idea for this related to how in Tasha's they begin to pillage Warlock and Sorcerer class features (some invocations, meta magic) as feats for anyone?

First of all, this wasn't "my" idea.. Others have posted these on Dandwiki.

I am a fan of Castles & Crusades as well as 5e; and I especially enjoy Troll Lord's Amazing Adventures 5e. One of the optional C&C rules expansions was the "Class-Plus" idea, where at the cost of a small XP requirement increase, one can grab some of the class features of another class. I wondered if something like that had been done for 5e, and I stumbled upon the "Minor" class feats.

[paladinn]

Seems like it.

Minor in Barbarian: Rage X per LR (minus one aspect of it), reckless attack X per LR, +10' speed
Minor in Bard: Inspiration X per LR, expertise in performance or an instrument, when taking a short rest heal an extra d4
Minor in Cleric: Turn Undead X per LR, domain spell once per LR, Cleric cantrip

And so on

There are options for "Minors" in Druid, Cleric and Barbarian. One could say the Magic Initiate makes for "Minors" in Wizard, Sorcerer and Warlock. I wonder about Warlock, Bard and Ranger, since so many of their class abilities actually come from their subclasses.

[T.G. Oskar]

Understood, but they also didn't cast spells. And the "dispel evil" ability was poorly defined and possibly OP. I much prefer the divine smite.

Last I recall, Lawful Fighters that became Paladins eventually gained access to Cleric spells, but at 1/3rd of their level. Same as their ability to turn undead. AD&D 1st added Lay on Hands (IIRC, I might be wrong) and the bonus to saves. 3.x added Smite.

[Kish]

Last I recall, Lawful Fighters that became Paladins eventually gained access to Cleric spells, but at 1/3rd of their level.
Sorta. Not only Lawful fighters who chose "Paladin" rather than "Knight," but also Chaotic fighters who chose "Avenger" rather than "Knight" got cleric spells exactly as you describe, if you happened to have a Wisdom of 13 or better...which you had generated using 3d6-in-order, and then chosen to make that character a class that, as far as anything before the Companion set so much as hinted, had no use for Wisdom.

[Ilerien]

Pillars of Eternity (both parts) used to have feats like these.

[paladinn]

Sorta. Not only Lawful fighters who chose "Paladin" rather than "Knight," but also Chaotic fighters who chose "Avenger" rather than "Knight" got cleric spells exactly as you describe, if you happened to have a Wisdom of 13 or better...which you had generated using 3d6-in-order, and then chosen to make that character a class that, as far as anything before the Companion set so much as hinted, had no use for Wisdom.

That was BECMI. OD&D introduced the paladin in the Greyhawk supplement. It was a fighter subclass that didn't cast spells, but had the detect evil, protection from evil, lay-on-hands and, at the time, dispel evil. By 1e, they got spells and lost dispel evil. 3e gave smite evil.

I like the "minor paladin" feat because it allows a fighter to function more like the original paladin, and not be a junior cleric.

[Arkhios]

I like the "minor paladin" feat because it allows a fighter to function more like the original paladin, and not be a junior cleric.

As an idea, I do like this, but in the way it's flavored, there's one fundamental flaw:

5th edition Paladins don't get their abilities from devotion to gods. They uphold certain ideals and a code, and through conviction they get powerful abilities, that classify as divine. Paladins in 5th (and oddly enough, 3rd) edition are not required to worship a deity, that requirement is external depending on the setting (for example Forgotten Realms).

Plus, the required minimum scores feel strange, considering paladin's multiclassing requirement is "minimum 13 str & cha", not "minimum 13 wis & cha".

[paladinn]

As an idea, I do like this, but in the way it's flavored, there's one fundamental flaw:

5th edition Paladins don't get their abilities from devotion to gods. They uphold certain ideals and a code, and through conviction they get powerful abilities, that classify as divine. Paladins in 5th (and oddly enough, 3rd) edition are not required to worship a deity, that requirement is external depending on the setting (for example Forgotten Realms).

Plus, the required minimum scores feel strange, considering paladin's multiclassing requirement is "minimum 13 str & cha", not "minimum 13 wis & cha".

I agree; and as I said, I think this speaks to that concept more than paladins casting spells. They should be fighters first and foremost, even if they are fighters-of-faith.

I'm sure I'll be messing with the minimums. I'm just now digging into the "minor" class concept from Dandwiki.

[Rilmani]

There are options for "Minors" in Druid, Cleric and Barbarian. One could say the Magic Initiate makes for "Minors" in Wizard, Sorcerer and Warlock. I wonder about Warlock, Bard and Ranger, since so many of their class abilities actually come from their subclasses.

I made a “minor Druid” feat before which gave one use of Wildshape per long rest. When you took the feat you chose a number of Beast stat blocks equal to your proficiency mod, complying with all Druid level restrictions for the shapes (No flying at low levels) which were you “locked in” when you took the feat. Using wildshape was an action and you faced the same restrictions with equipment, spellcasting, racial traits and speech as a Druid while transformed. You gain one use of Wildshape total per long rest, not once for every form you know.

At higher levels (when your prof. bonus increases) you could add more beast shapes, but it was still only one every four levels.

I suppose a true Minor Druid feat would include some spellcasting, perhaps Protection from Poison too. Or Plant Growth.

[paladinn]

I made a “minor Druid” feat before which gave one use of Wildshape per long rest. When you took the feat you chose a number of Beast stat blocks equal to your proficiency mod, complying with all Druid level restrictions for the shapes (No flying at low levels) which were you “locked in” when you took the feat. Using wildshape was an action and you faced the same restrictions with equipment, spellcasting, racial traits and speech as a Druid while transformed. You gain one use of Wildshape total per long rest, not once for every form you know.

At higher levels (when your prof. bonus increases) you could add more beast shapes, but it was still only one every four levels.

I suppose a true Minor Druid feat would include some spellcasting, perhaps Protection from Poison too. Or Plant Growth.

This sounds very much like the Minor Druid feat from Dandwiki. Great minds!

I've been delving into Troll Lord's Amazing Adventures game. It's based on and works seemlessly with Castles & Crusades. They have a number of "generic class abilities" which one can swap in place of an unwanted class feature. There are also suggestions for actually swapping class features for Other class' features. Potentially it provides a Lot of flexibility and customization.

TL has also published a version of AA for 5e. If they develop the generic/swapped class feature concept, it would be totally cool!