Simple Core Combo: No Save Automatic Mind Control?

[Silva Stormrage]

Hey a simple combo I just thought of while updating some temple defenses for an upcoming campaign. But would the spells Greater Glyph of Warding and Geas (Or Quest I suppose as it would probably be a cleric casting it) instantly apply the Geas to the target? Glyph of Warding doesn't seem to have a restriction on the casting time of the spell, only that its harmful and 6th level or below. This seems like a simple core only combo that is pretty brutal considering how hard it is to actually remove a Geas and the fact that it doesn't actually have a saving throw.

Anything wrong with my thinking? I don't see anything obvious about this that makes it not work. I tried searching to see if this had been brought up before but got flooded with 5e cheese regarding Glyph of Warding so I figured I would just ask.

[Cruiser1]

A language-dependent spell uses intelligible language as a medium for communication. If the target cannot understand or cannot hear what the caster of a language-dependant spell says the spell fails.
Geas/Quest (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/geasQuest.htm) is "[Language-Dependent]". There's nothing in Glyph of Warding (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/glyphOfWarding.htm) which says it will magically verbalize your speech like a Magic Mouth when the glyph gets triggered. Therefore, when the glyph does gets triggered, the Geas spell inside of it can't do anything and fails.

[Jack_Simth]

Geas/Quest (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/geasQuest.htm) is "[Language-Dependent]". There's nothing in Glyph of Warding (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/glyphOfWarding.htm) which says it will magically verbalize your speech like a Magic Mouth when the glyph gets triggered. Therefore, when the glyph does gets triggered, the Geas spell inside of it can't do anything and fails.

Combine with Magic Mouth?

[Silva Stormrage]

Huh it didn't actually occur to me that the words might not be a part of the "Spell" of Geas. How would a magic mouth paired with the Glyph function? I am not sure and think at that point its pretty much up to DM interpretation. Which is fine because this isn't really a combo I would like to see in an actual game.

[icefractal]

Yeah, the "no save" nature of Geas is pretty nasty. I guess the logic is "if you were there at the caster's mercy for 10 minutes, they could have just killed you instead", but as soon as there's a way around that ...

Also if the verbal instruction is separate from the casting, then with Silent Spell you could hide anywhere within 50' of them, cast it, then stand up and give your instruction. Works on anyone who's staying the same spot for ten minutes, which isn't exactly a big ask.

In Pathfinder it's even nastier, because Mind Blank only gives a save bonus against mind control instead of immunity - which doesn't matter when the spell has no save! And it adds a couple more ways to deliver it:
Vision of Doom - this one does have a save, but multiple people can spam it (from anywhere in the world), so it's just a matter of time unless you stop sleeping.
Law (Judgement) Domain + Suicidal (trait) - jump in front of an attack, then cast Geas as a standard action against the attacker.


Personally I'd house-rule it to require an aware target for the entire casting, and for the command to be stated (and heard) at the start of casting, with the target realizing that this is going to become a Geas. They wouldn't have to be willing, they could just be restrained in place, but no stealth-Geasing.

[Fizban]

There's also the problem of how effective Geas really is even with no save and a trick to ignore the 10 minutes- I posted a thread (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?630912-Geas-and-Lesser-Geas) a while back (well past necro range) on the shoddy wordings, but only one response. But when you're trying to get into RAW trickery, I'd say you want to start with a spell with clearer RAW.

[animewatcha]

Dual-glyph via combo with comprehend language?