Sherlockpwns
2022-01-22, 07:42 PM
Over the last (too many) years I've been working on a character design philosophy and I wanted to see if anyone shared this thought process and had any character designs to consider.
First, to preface this "interesting" choices and "effective" choices are NOT mutually exclusive. I'll try to define these two concepts as this:
An effective choice is the one that achieves what you want to do in the most expedient route. For instance if you're a Rune Knight with Cloud Rune and your buddy gets critted there's no more effective choice that to redirect that crit to the ENEMY'S buddy. That is a very effective use of an ability. But it is not "interesting" because there's no actual decision to make other than to do it. This is usually the core reason the poor Fighter Champion gets shat on, a perfectly effective subclass.
An interesting choice is one where you must weigh the pros and cons of the decision you are about to make, either against making the decision at all (e.g. maybe if you're a paladin and have to decide to share damage taken by an ally) or against another ability you have. (E.g. as a rogue do you use your reaction to uncanny dodge and reduce damage vs if your bard is about to cast whispers on the enemy you can soak the damage and get a possible reaction sneak attack).
Second, in my experience a "good" combat in 5e is one where everyone has made at least 1 "minor" interesting choice and at least one PC has made one "major" interesting choice. I define these roughly as follows:
A minor interesting choice is one where your decision impacts the effect you have on the battle. For instance, deciding between casting magic missile vs. scorching ray. Missile is guaranteed damage. Ray can do a LOT more with some luck. It's a choice, but relatively minor as both abilities fall into the same basic effect.
A major interesting choice is one what literally changes the decisions of ALL subsequent turns of combat. For instance dropping a hypotonic pattern or ongoing AOE effect will almost certainly change what everyone else is doing and how they interact with the battlefield, friend and foe alike.
Which is my really long winded way of saying while "I walk up to the orc and make 3 attacks" may be the most efficient use of your turn, it's the kind of turn I want to minimize while playing. Not saying I won't do it if that is what needs doing of course :).
Now this all said, I do feel casters tend to be more "interesting" as a result, half-casters or even third-casters tend to just have more "stuff" to choose from" that can impact an entire battle, but there are martial choices, all the way up to where you position yourself here vs there may radically alter the flow of a battle, but they're a bit harder to find than what happens when even a level 1 caster drops a fog cloud into the mix.
Anyway, so I am always on the lookout for "interesting" character archetypes that go beyond just min/maxing DPR or creating a perfect combo that becomes "This is what I do in every combat." Those are effective, I have no doubt at all, but I'd rather see some fun "interesting" ideas or characters you've played.
My current PC is focused on battlefield control, which is a common one. It's a Telekinetic (feat) Ranger/Warlock focused on creating hazards and moving opponents (ideally into or through the hazards). It's paired with several other CC related characters (a druid and a Graviturgy wizard) in a party (not intentionally, just worked out) so we've been having a blast creating traps and trying to get them to go off as planned (with mixed results). Today we managed to split a giant ooze into MANY oozes with some cloud of daggers, combined with the moonbeam placed on top of it. We created some absolute mad chaos, multiplying both the danger AND the damage we were dealing (let's ignore the fact two people got KOed in the process of this). To be clear that wasn't intentional, but it was interesting!
Anyway, I find the fun here is often the 'major' choice of if we're laying down something like Spike Growth where the objective is to force the enemy through the danger vs. something like cloud of daggers where the objective is to hold the enemy IN the danger. Or use no-spells and our natural surroundings to do the same. The minor choices come down to where to position enemies or even (via telekinetic) allies. It tends to lack many other "minor" choices, mostly just if I am going to use a CC spell vs. hunter mark and just blast away. Like I said, sometimes you just need to be effective and there's nothing wrong with taking your turns to just DPS, as long as that is at least a choice and not "what I have to do every combat." Anyway, once the trap is decided on and sprung, I make very few choices after that, just where to push people (most of which is no choice at all -> since the answer is always back into the trap). But that ONE big choice alone makes combat so much more fun to me.
So what else do people find interesting?
First, to preface this "interesting" choices and "effective" choices are NOT mutually exclusive. I'll try to define these two concepts as this:
An effective choice is the one that achieves what you want to do in the most expedient route. For instance if you're a Rune Knight with Cloud Rune and your buddy gets critted there's no more effective choice that to redirect that crit to the ENEMY'S buddy. That is a very effective use of an ability. But it is not "interesting" because there's no actual decision to make other than to do it. This is usually the core reason the poor Fighter Champion gets shat on, a perfectly effective subclass.
An interesting choice is one where you must weigh the pros and cons of the decision you are about to make, either against making the decision at all (e.g. maybe if you're a paladin and have to decide to share damage taken by an ally) or against another ability you have. (E.g. as a rogue do you use your reaction to uncanny dodge and reduce damage vs if your bard is about to cast whispers on the enemy you can soak the damage and get a possible reaction sneak attack).
Second, in my experience a "good" combat in 5e is one where everyone has made at least 1 "minor" interesting choice and at least one PC has made one "major" interesting choice. I define these roughly as follows:
A minor interesting choice is one where your decision impacts the effect you have on the battle. For instance, deciding between casting magic missile vs. scorching ray. Missile is guaranteed damage. Ray can do a LOT more with some luck. It's a choice, but relatively minor as both abilities fall into the same basic effect.
A major interesting choice is one what literally changes the decisions of ALL subsequent turns of combat. For instance dropping a hypotonic pattern or ongoing AOE effect will almost certainly change what everyone else is doing and how they interact with the battlefield, friend and foe alike.
Which is my really long winded way of saying while "I walk up to the orc and make 3 attacks" may be the most efficient use of your turn, it's the kind of turn I want to minimize while playing. Not saying I won't do it if that is what needs doing of course :).
Now this all said, I do feel casters tend to be more "interesting" as a result, half-casters or even third-casters tend to just have more "stuff" to choose from" that can impact an entire battle, but there are martial choices, all the way up to where you position yourself here vs there may radically alter the flow of a battle, but they're a bit harder to find than what happens when even a level 1 caster drops a fog cloud into the mix.
Anyway, so I am always on the lookout for "interesting" character archetypes that go beyond just min/maxing DPR or creating a perfect combo that becomes "This is what I do in every combat." Those are effective, I have no doubt at all, but I'd rather see some fun "interesting" ideas or characters you've played.
My current PC is focused on battlefield control, which is a common one. It's a Telekinetic (feat) Ranger/Warlock focused on creating hazards and moving opponents (ideally into or through the hazards). It's paired with several other CC related characters (a druid and a Graviturgy wizard) in a party (not intentionally, just worked out) so we've been having a blast creating traps and trying to get them to go off as planned (with mixed results). Today we managed to split a giant ooze into MANY oozes with some cloud of daggers, combined with the moonbeam placed on top of it. We created some absolute mad chaos, multiplying both the danger AND the damage we were dealing (let's ignore the fact two people got KOed in the process of this). To be clear that wasn't intentional, but it was interesting!
Anyway, I find the fun here is often the 'major' choice of if we're laying down something like Spike Growth where the objective is to force the enemy through the danger vs. something like cloud of daggers where the objective is to hold the enemy IN the danger. Or use no-spells and our natural surroundings to do the same. The minor choices come down to where to position enemies or even (via telekinetic) allies. It tends to lack many other "minor" choices, mostly just if I am going to use a CC spell vs. hunter mark and just blast away. Like I said, sometimes you just need to be effective and there's nothing wrong with taking your turns to just DPS, as long as that is at least a choice and not "what I have to do every combat." Anyway, once the trap is decided on and sprung, I make very few choices after that, just where to push people (most of which is no choice at all -> since the answer is always back into the trap). But that ONE big choice alone makes combat so much more fun to me.
So what else do people find interesting?