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cupkeyk
2007-11-21, 04:54 PM
Is there a generally accepted optimal 20 level build for a Bard/Crusader (not gestalt) focusing on Inspire Courage/White Raven for a Commander position in a party? Could I be given a link, I would totally appreciate it.

If not, could I get some assistance building it?

Goumindong
2007-11-21, 05:24 PM
Something to remember, you have to be in a white raven stance, so you wont be able to get that inspire off until the second round unless you use it as a standard/move action.

NEO|Phyte
2007-11-21, 05:27 PM
Something to remember, you have to be in a white raven stance, so you wont be able to get that inspire off until the second round unless you use it as a standard/move action.

...Why? A stance persists until you change it/end it/a special condition that ends it occurs, just set a stance after your morning readying of manouvers, and you're good to go.

Temp
2007-11-21, 05:28 PM
I don't think there's anything widely accepted as the Song of the White Raven build. This (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14082576&postcount=45)is most of the components and a bit of other stuff.

Hyfigh
2007-11-21, 06:01 PM
I'd suggest going one way or the other. Song of the White Raven, while it stacks Bard and Crusader/Warblade levels for the power of effect in bardic Inspire Courage, they don't stack for purposes of daily uses. A straight 20 bard or 20 crusader will be far superior IMO.

OneWinged4ngel
2007-11-22, 12:42 AM
Is there a generally accepted optimal 20 level build for a Bard/Crusader (not gestalt) focusing on Inspire Courage/White Raven for a Commander position in a party? Could I be given a link, I would totally appreciate it.

If not, could I get some assistance building it?

...Unfortunately, the old link I used to give people seems to have been pruned, thus disappearing from the WotC boards. You could, however, scour the Tome of Battle Build Compendium (on the WotC charop boards).

Oh, and by the way. There's a GOOD THING about Tome of Battle, and that's that there's actually a number of multiclass combinations and builds that are highly effective, thus allowing you freedom to customize your character in a way that suits you without making yourself suck. As a result, there is no single definitive build. The link I used to give people was just one example of SotWR's potential. The only thing that really remains static is the part about inspire courage optimization, which someone above me already gave a handy link for. Core doesn't have that kind of flexibility (it's not balanced, people!), so it's the core class part that doesn't let you customize out the wazoo and still be effective. :smallfrown:


I'd suggest going one way or the other. Song of the White Raven, while it stacks Bard and Crusader/Warblade levels for the power of effect in bardic Inspire Courage, they don't stack for purposes of daily uses. A straight 20 bard or 20 crusader will be far superior IMO.

A bardic music effect lasts an entire combat. With 4 bard levels, you get 4 encounters per day. And a Bard/Crusader or Bard/Warblade build with 4 bard levels gives you 9th level maneuvers and Dragonfire Inspiration (from Dragon Magic) with a whopping +12d6 or so boost to your damage per hit from Bardic Music. Heck, it makes TWF optimal *for your whole party.* If you choose not to use Dragonfire Inspiration, you can wreck things with that +12 to hit and +12 to damage for *all kinds of attacks* (including spells and such) for the whole party. If you take a two handed weapon and power attack, that means you're getting a free *at least* 36 extra damage per hit with no penalty to your attack rolls or AC or anything. And you do it 4 times per day. And your whole party gets it. And you have 9th level maneuvers and 2nd level spells and skill monkey power. Basically, having full blast Inspire Courage is a Good Thing.

However, if you really, REALLY think that 4-6 bardic musics per day isn't good enough, there are feats and the like to give you more.

cupkeyk
2007-11-23, 01:56 PM
Questions:

Is a martial/bard going into Dread Pirate with Inspirational Boost better off WITHOUT Song of he White Raven?

Do kobolds have the Dragonblood subtype? What races have it? Is there anyway to get it without wasting a feat or LA?

Does the third level of Dragon Devotee qualify him for Draconic Heritage?