Predictions Thread For D&D 2022, 2023, and 2024

[Gyor]

So far we know in 2022 we are getting Monsters of the Multiverse, Netherdeep, two new settings (one of which is Spelljammer andbthev other is most likely Darksun or Planescape,), and if tradition hold most likely a Summer Adventure. 2023 if they haven't been cancelled will have 2 new settings, another classic setting. 2024 has 5.5e corebooks and setting revisit (Forgotten Realms).

So that is what we know so far. My predictions below.

1. Dominaria Setting book either late 2022 or early 2023

2. To find out, most likely at D&D Live or D&D Celebration, if the new settings, 2023 classic setting, and revisit are far along enough to be safe from cancelling yet.

3. 5.5e UAs along with setting UAs.

4. There will be no Tasha\Xanathar style books until after 2024

5. They might replace the DMG as a core book

6. MM 5.5e will be like Monsters of the Multiverse

7. Spelljammer have playable Nautiliods and "narrated" by Minsc and Boo.

8. New Settings will be Domains of Delight and Fantasy Africa setting

[Catullus64]

I'm increasingly having a hard time believing that WotC has any serious intent to put out Dark Sun material for this edition. Grimdark sword-and-sorcery just doesn't seem to be a niche that their content of the past few years has seemed all that interested in servicing.

I also think that the recent approach to psionics (expressing psionic themes through subclasses rather than its own classes or mechanics) doesn't seem like the sort of move you make if you're keen on working in a setting where the differences between psionics and magic are a core theme.

So I'd say we're looking at slim chances of my favorite setting getting a book anytime soon; not when Planescape and Spelljammer are more in line with the tone set by previous books, and have all that multiverse stuff to facilitate tie-ins to other settings.

[KorvinStarmast]

The next two years will resemble a tale told by an idiot, filled with sound and fury, signifying nothing.
(Apologies to The Bard for ripping that off)
I'd love to be surprised and see them implement a 5e Dark Sun.
But I have lost faith in the dev team's ability to go there.

[Brookshw]

5. They might replace the DMG as a core book


That's a bold guess, what makes you think so?

[Envyus]

I am not going to assume one of the setting books is spelljammer until they outright say it.

[Sparky McDibben]

I don't think they'll do a Dark Sun setting, either; I think it's tonally dissonant with the market right now. For example, they released Descent into Avernus and Rime of the Frostmaiden, both pretty dark adventures. But then they immediately switched to more "whimsical" fare like Witchlight and Strixhaven. I think they believe that after the last couple years, folks are kind of getting burnt out on grimdark. They want fun places to visit, and more light-hearted adventures.

(I'm not saying that's the case; I just think that's what WotC thinks).

A Dominaria book would be cool (if it's more like Ravnica and less like Strixhaven), but I haven't seen any chatter about that - can I ask what you've seen that makes this come up?

I think that we're going to see a lot of public playtest material, similar to D&D Next, come through over the next couple years, per your call, Mr. Gyor. But I don't think they're going to be breaking a lot of new ground. I think a lot of it will be rehashing and "fine-tuning" what they already have. Honestly, I suspect they're going to tinker with refresh rates (short / long rests), as this seems to be a large source of contention within the community.

[Kane0]

Still hoping for planescape to be in there. Bariaur as a variant centaur seems easy to place as a race.

[Waazraath]

I don't think they'll do a Dark Sun setting, either; I think it's tonally dissonant with the market right now. For example, they released Descent into Avernus and Rime of the Frostmaiden, both pretty dark adventures. But then they immediately switched to more "whimsical" fare like Witchlight and Strixhaven. I think they believe that after the last couple years, folks are kind of getting burnt out on grimdark. They want fun places to visit, and more light-hearted adventures.

(I'm not saying that's the case; I just think that's what WotC thinks).


I find this interesting. I might be wrong, but it was my impression that the game that coined the term grimdark (40k) which is about as grimdark as it gets originated in a time in the UK when everything was bad, miserable, utterly hopeless, people were out of jobs and the economy sucked - and that reflected into gaming. Projecting that to the current times, I'd sooner expect settings with 40k-like misearableness, and then some extra kicked puppies for good measure.

Personally, as for D&D in 2022 and further, I find that at the moment I don't care too much. So far I've bought almost all the books and I still play 1 campaign, but the pace is so slow that our group won't need new adventure books until 2028 at the earliest - much longer if somebody deceides to run some homebrew. And as for the books with players options, I doubt I'll buy more - there are a few interesting and fun options in most books, but not enough to purchase them just for character building when I won't have the time to run those characters in the first place. And while I'm happy with 5e as it is, I have a pretty strong opinion on what is needed to improve the game, and it doesn't seem to move in that direction. So I'll probably just play with the material I have for the next few years, skip 5.5 and tune in again with buying stuff if 6e seems promising.

[Joe the Rat]

I don't think they'll do a Dark Sun setting, either; I think it's tonally dissonant with the market right now. For example, they released Descent into Avernus and Rime of the Frostmaiden, both pretty dark adventures. But then they immediately switched to more "whimsical" fare like Witchlight and Strixhaven. I think they believe that after the last couple years, folks are kind of getting burnt out on grimdark. They want fun places to visit, and more light-hearted adventures.

I see less a tonal pivot as a cycle - they bounce between Grims (dark, desperate, doom) and Romps (adventure, roving, dungeon crawls and world hoppers). Anti-magic pseudo-environmentalist desert survival could come around again. However...


I find this interesting. I might be wrong, but it was my impression that the game that coined the term grimdark (40k) which is about as grimdark as it gets originated in a time in the UK when everything was bad, miserable, utterly hopeless, people were out of jobs and the economy sucked - and that reflected into gaming. Projecting that to the current times, I'd sooner expect settings with 40k-like misearableness, and then some extra kicked puppies for good measure.
On a related note, Dark Sun (and its adjacent punk setting, Planescape) originated in second edition which, among other things, happened in the 90's. This is the era of grunge, goth, the fall of the iron curtain, and a weird zeitgeist fixation on Seattle. The cracks in the systems were getting quite noticeable, and an entire generation discovered an economy of filling the gaps to make it work. It was not hard to see the world go completely to crap (post Mad-Max, second wave Romero Zombie). The world is bigger, weirder, and more run down, and ideas and ideals got a fresh look. The old US standards of Us and Them (or Good and Bad) got a shock - Russians really did love their children too. A massively weirder setting with an incredibly lived-in feel , cityscape as adventure, and the Old Labels making way for New Factions (with a skin of gothic sentiment and a rather Eastender dialect) brings us to Planescape, and its crown jewel, Sigil.

If you were coming at these for the first time, would these themes fit the New 20's? I don't know how its market share ran, but Dark Sun seems perfectly reasonable in a modern age of environmental red flags and cult of personality. They seem to be settling into a new Psionic model (Psi Dice and Psi Spells), which could build into a core class, as well as additional feats and wild talents. The real rework would come in how to differentiate Preserver and Defiler magic in the One Pool, One Progression magic system.

Planescape would work in a "People are people, no matter how many horns they have, but I have a very specific interpretation of 19th century French literature and how it relates to the new standards of masculinity, and I will die on that hill" social environment. The Factions are really well suited to the, er, Factions system, though how central they are to the setting can be revisited. Where Spelljammer leans more into Discovery, a new Planescape could lean towards Rediscovery - the Multiverse is old and well-heeled, but as berk or cutter, you are seeing it with fresh eyes. You are a Traveler, not an Explorer. And I would totally buy into an Anthony Bourdain style Romp - see the worlds, learn a bit of the culture, be appreciative and sarcastic, and eat the food.

[KorvinStarmast]

If you were coming at these for the first time, would these themes fit the New 20's? I don't know how its market share ran, but Dark Sun seems perfectly reasonable in a modern age of environmental red flags and cult of personality. They seem to be settling into a new Psionic model (Psi Dice and Psi Spells), which could build into a core class, as well as additional feats and wild talents. The real rework would come in how to differentiate Preserver and Defiler magic in the One Pool, One Progression magic system. Defiler/Preserver, and how the use magic exacts a price (TNSTAAFL (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_ain%27t_no_such_thing_as_a_free_lunch)!) is a feature of Dark Sun that I particularly like, which is unlike the magic that vanilla 5e offers in tone. They have gone a bit Harry Potter with some of the MtG stuff.

Not sure how many people on staff are into post apocalyptic themes.

[Gyro89]

It seems like they punish a "everything" book every 3 years, so I'd expect another one of those around 2024-2025 unless they're holding it back for 5.5e.

For the next "obligatory" MtG book, I'm surprised they haven't done Innistrad yet, that's a classic setting and just had two sets.

As others have stated, I hope we get something a bit darker eventually, all this light hearted stuff really feels artificial after awhile imo.

[Kane0]

It seems like they punish a "everything" book every 3 years, so I'd expect another one of those around 2024-2025 unless they're holding it back for 5.5e.



Player's Guide to Everything.

[Yakmala]

1: All dragons, regardless of color or metallic sheen, are individuals that can be any alignment. A new hardcover adventure will feature a Lawful Good Ancient Red Dragon.

2: Following up on the removal of sunlight sensitivity, darkvision will be removed from the game. All environments are now assumed to be naturally well lit, unless affected by magical darkness.

3: All classes can change feats, cantrips and leveled spells known after a long rest.

4: In an effort to drive off the few remaining Monk players, Stunning Strike is changed so that it can only be used X# of times = to PB per long rest.

5: The release of Monsters of the Multiverse attracts the attention of Disney, which buys WotC from Hasbro. They proceed to incorporate Faerun, Eberon and other settings into the MCU multiverse canon.

6: As an alternative to rolling attributes or using point buy, you can now purchase your new character as an NFT.

[Sparky McDibben]

Another question: Do you think they'll nerf the OGL. I think they will because Hasbro sees that as missed revenue.

[Kane0]

1: All dragons, regardless of color or metallic sheen, are individuals that can be any alignment. A new hardcover adventure will feature a Lawful Good Ancient Red Dragon.

2: Following up on the removal of sunlight sensitivity, darkvision will be removed from the game. All environments are now assumed to be naturally well lit, unless affected by magical darkness.

3: All classes can change feats, cantrips and leveled spells known after a long rest.

4: In an effort to drive off the few remaining Monk players, Stunning Strike is changed so that it can only be used X# of times = to PB per long rest.

5: The release of Monsters of the Multiverse attracts the attention of Disney, which buys WotC from Hasbro. They proceed to incorporate Faerun, Eberon and other settings into the MCU multiverse canon.

6: As an alternative to rolling attributes or using point buy, you can now purchase your new character as an NFT.

Thanks, im going to have nightmares about this.

[rlc]

We won’t get both Planescape and Spelljammer, unless there’s a weird fusion of the two.

[Sparky McDibben]

1: All dragons, regardless of color or metallic sheen, are individuals that can be any alignment. A new hardcover adventure will feature a Lawful Good Ancient Red Dragon.

2: Following up on the removal of sunlight sensitivity, darkvision will be removed from the game. All environments are now assumed to be naturally well lit, unless affected by magical darkness.

3: All classes can change feats, cantrips and leveled spells known after a long rest.

4: In an effort to drive off the few remaining Monk players, Stunning Strike is changed so that it can only be used X# of times = to PB per long rest.

5: The release of Monsters of the Multiverse attracts the attention of Disney, which buys WotC from Hasbro. They proceed to incorporate Faerun, Eberon and other settings into the MCU multiverse canon.

6: As an alternative to rolling attributes or using point buy, you can now purchase your new character as an NFT.

Ordinarily, this would scare the crap out of me, because the dev team might read this and not realize it's bad advice. But, given the effort Mr. Appleton has exerted just to convince WotC we exist, I don't think they read these forums, so I can breathe a sigh of relief...

[Nadan]

I guess in this year or next, Kamigawa: Neon Dynasty may get a setting book because WotC would want to milk the newest hottest cow at least twice.

[Psyren]

Kamigawa would be excellent (one of my favorite MTG settings and had some fantastic Pauper and Peasant decks), especially if they stirred in some Rokugan elements. It's a more modern take on the "orient" elements that are fertile ground for appealing flavor but that haven't necessarily aged all that well.

[Telwar]

1: All dragons, regardless of color or metallic sheen, are individuals that can be any alignment. A new hardcover adventure will feature a Lawful Good Ancient Red Dragon.

2: Following up on the removal of sunlight sensitivity, darkvision will be removed from the game. All environments are now assumed to be naturally well lit, unless affected by magical darkness.

3: All classes can change feats, cantrips and leveled spells known after a long rest.

4: In an effort to drive off the few remaining Monk players, Stunning Strike is changed so that it can only be used X# of times = to PB per long rest.

5: The release of Monsters of the Multiverse attracts the attention of Disney, which buys WotC from Hasbro. They proceed to incorporate Faerun, Eberon and other settings into the MCU multiverse canon.

6: As an alternative to rolling attributes or using point buy, you can now purchase your new character as an NFT.

1) isn't actually a bad idea, and is already the case in Eberron.

2) Making everyone need light honestly isn't terrible. One of my coworkers suggested low light vision as a replacement, treating dim light as bright light but still having darkness as darkness.

Though to be absolutely fair, from the company that's bundling its new book with books you probably already have, I can see 6) coming.

[KorvinStarmast]

4: In an effort to drive off the few remaining Monk players, Stunning Strike is changed so that it can only be used X# of times = to PB per long rest.
Great and funny post, but if they did this one I'd be sad faced all over the place. :smallfrown: (The NFT idea cracked me up)

@Tanarii: yeah, the team's direction of travel could use a course correction.

[Xervous]

1) isn't actually a bad idea, and is already the case in Eberron.


As someone who detests what Eberron does with dragons... I don’t really care if they make a Drizzt styled Ancient Red. They’ve had villainous Silvers in past adventures. It’s only a headache when it gets all kinds of other baggage shoveled in with it.

[Millstone85]

We won’t get both Planescape and Spelljammer, unless there’s a weird fusion of the two.Oh, I would love a book on sailing the planes! It could answer questions like these:

What happens when you bring a spelljamming vessel to the Shadowfell and take off toward the seemingly starless skies? And, pun intended, what about fey wildspace?
How does planeshifting to the Astral, then back to the Material but on a different world, really compare to a journey through the phlogiston? Would you actually have to sail the astral sea for a while?
Could the Torments, a sort of 0th hell made of asteroids floating above Avernus, make the jump from 4e to 5e?

[Ralanr]

I guess in this year or next, Kamigawa: Neon Dynasty may get a setting book because WotC would want to milk the newest hottest cow at least twice.

That's probably be the closest we'd ever get to a modern times setting and, honestly, I'd be there for it. And I don't like WOTC publishing MTG books (though I'll admit, the Theros book is a gem for making me care about the gods).

[Psyren]

That's probably be the closest we'd ever get to a modern times setting and, honestly, I'd be there for it. And I don't like WOTC publishing MTG books (though I'll admit, the Theros book is a gem for making me care about the gods).

You know they publish the MTG game right? :smalltongue:



What happens when you bring a spelljamming vessel to the Shadowfell and take off toward the seemingly starless skies? And, pun intended, what about fey wildspace?

For both, presumably you'd end up in the Astral if you went far enough.


How does planeshifting to the Astral, then back to the Material but on a different world, really compare to a journey through the phlogiston? Would you actually have to sail the astral sea for a while?

Could the Torments, a sort of 0th hell made of asteroids floating above Avernus, make the jump from 4e to 5e?


To both: "sure, why not"


1: All dragons, regardless of color or metallic sheen, are individuals that can be any alignment. A new hardcover adventure will feature a Lawful Good Ancient Red Dragon.

2: Following up on the removal of sunlight sensitivity, darkvision will be removed from the game. All environments are now assumed to be naturally well lit, unless affected by magical darkness.

3: All classes can change feats, cantrips and leveled spells known after a long rest.

4: In an effort to drive off the few remaining Monk players, Stunning Strike is changed so that it can only be used X# of times = to PB per long rest.

5: The release of Monsters of the Multiverse attracts the attention of Disney, which buys WotC from Hasbro. They proceed to incorporate Faerun, Eberon and other settings into the MCU multiverse canon.

6: As an alternative to rolling attributes or using point buy, you can now purchase your new character as an NFT.

1. Monsters are not PCs.
2. No.
3. No.
4. Only if it still costs ki, even if it fails :smallbiggrin:
5. I think it more likely they'd just partner on licensing a superhero reskin of 5e. (Also, why would MotM of all things attract the Mouse?)
6. Technically you can already do this.

[Millstone85]

For both, presumably you'd end up in the Astral if you went far enough.That, in my opinion, would be a complete curveball. :smallconfused:

My take is that you would eventually reach the fey or shadow echo of the firmament, the inner surface of the crystal sphere. If you then took a path through it, what you would find on the other side would be either:

The phlogiston, which would be shared between the Material and its echoes.
The Deep Ethereal, which is what the Material and its echoes ultimately float into.
An energy plane, the Positive for the Feywild or the Negative for the Shadowfell.

Now, with the Torments, yes, you would eventually emerge from a color pool in the Astral. Some of the infernal asteroids might even be going in and out of the ruby mists.

[Pildion]

I don't think they'll do a Dark Sun setting, either; I think it's tonally dissonant with the market right now. For example, they released Descent into Avernus and Rime of the Frostmaiden, both pretty dark adventures. But then they immediately switched to more "whimsical" fare like Witchlight and Strixhaven. I think they believe that after the last couple years, folks are kind of getting burnt out on grimdark. They want fun places to visit, and more light-hearted adventures.

It's not the MARKET that doesn't want a good grimdark setting..... its the politics....

But I do hope for a Spelljammer setting!

[Sparky McDibben]

It's not the MARKET that doesn't want a good grimdark setting..... its the politics....

But I do hope for a Spelljammer setting!

Eh. I don't think Dark Sun is viable, but I hope I am wrong. And Spelljammer would be dope.

[KorvinStarmast]

Eh. I don't think Dark Sun is viable, but I hope I am wrong. And Spelljammer would be dope.
I find it odd that there's an impression that Dark Sun is too dark, but how much darker darker is Curse of Strahd, which has been well received in this edition?

[Psyren]

That, in my opinion, would be a complete curveball. :smallconfused:

Why? The Astral is the space between planes in most cosmologies, including the Great Wheel. It makes a good "default" if you simply leave the boundaries of one plane manually in an unspecified "direction."


My take is that you would eventually reach the fey or shadow echo of the firmament, the inner surface of the crystal sphere. If you then took a path through it, what you would find on the other side would be either:

The phlogiston, which would be shared between the Material and its echoes.
The Deep Ethereal, which is what the Material and its echoes ultimately float into.
An energy plane, the Positive for the Feywild or the Negative for the Shadowfell.

Now, with the Torments, yes, you would eventually emerge from a color pool in the Astral. Some of the infernal asteroids might even be going in and out of the ruby mists.

I actually agree that heading out of the shadowfell long enough could get you to the feywild (and vice-versa), I'm just saying the Astral can be assumed to be in between. It connects to both after all.

Not sure what you mean by "float into" - Ethereal and Material are coterminous in Great Wheel, so one is already overlapping the other.

Phlogiston IIRC is the stuff between entire settings/cosmologies. Moving from one plane to another within a cosmology generally wouldn't cross it, but that's of course a DM question.

[Brookshw]

Why? The Astral is the space between planes in most cosmologies, including the Great Wheel. It makes a good "default" if you simply leave the boundaries of one plane manually in an unspecified "direction."


Being able to physically travel between planes without something to actually effectuate the change, other than distance (i.e. world tree, portal, infinite stairs, etc.), would be a pretty significant departure from canon.:smallconfused:

[P. G. Macer]

I find it odd that there's an impression that Dark Sun is too dark, but how much darker darker is Curse of Strahd, which has been well received in this edition?

I think the matter of why many here (myself included) think 5e Dark Sun is unlikely isn’t to do just with being dark, but how it’s dark. From what I’ve seen (being new to D&D with 5e), Dark Sun is dark in ways that are more likely to attract the attention of Twitter provocateurs and click-farmers than Ravenloft, given that slavery is a major part of life on Athas, and fantasy-racial stereotypes are more prominent (e.g., cannibal halflings). So even if Ravenloft and Curse of Strahd exceed Dark Sun in raw level of darkness, Dark Sun seems more likely to be perceived as offensively dark.

[Psyren]

Being able to physically travel between planes without something to actually effectuate the change, other than distance (i.e. world tree, portal, infinite stairs, etc.), would be a pretty significant departure from canon.:smallconfused:

He was talking about using a spelljamming vessel, so that would be your "something to effectuate the change."

[Brookshw]

He was talking about using a spelljamming vessel, so that would be your "something to effectuate the change."

Spelljammers don't planeshift (barring BG3 whatever that was)

[Dork_Forge]

Spelljammers don't planeshift (barring BG3 whatever that was)

Don't Illithid Nautiloids allow travel to the Astral and back?

Not full shifting but from the trailer and being chased by Gith it seems consistent with the BG3 cinematic.

[Psyren]

Spelljammers don't planeshift (barring BG3 whatever that was)

As of at least 4e they can (Manual of the Planes pg. 20), so I expect 5e to pick this up once it has its own. Their inclusion in BG3 as you mentioned (which is a 5e ruleset game) certainly indicates this.

[Dork_Forge]

As of at least 4e they can (Manual of the Planes pg. 20), so I expect 5e to pick this up once it has its own. Their inclusion in BG3 as you mentioned (which is a 5e ruleset game) certainly indicates this.

We already have one example of a nautiloid in 5e, along with 5e canon that they can move between the Material Plane and the Astral Plane.

[Millstone85]

Psyren and I have very different readings of the cosmology. Here is mine.

The Astral is the transitive plane that connects the Material, the Outlands and the Outer Planes, as listed in the Astral Color Pools table page 47 of the 5e DMG.

The Ethereal is the transitive plane that connects the Material, the Feywild, the Shadowfell and the Inner Planes, as listed in the Ethereal Curtains table page 49 of the 5e DMG.

They also connect to each other, as there are astral color pools to the Ethereal and an ethereal cyclone can hurl you into the Astral.

A quirk of the Ethereal is that it overlaps with each of the planes that it connects, save the Astral. The non-overlapping region is called the Deep Ethereal. The overlapping regions are collectively known as the Border Ethereal.

Yet to be mentioned in 5e, the phlogiston is not a transitive plane but the stuff that fills up most of the Material. Individual planetary systems, such as Greyspace, Krynnspace or Realmspace, are protected from it by crystal shells. Far from travelling between cosmologies, spelljamming vessels do not typically leave the Material.

Nautiloids, as described in VGtM and BG3, might be a sign that 5e is dropping the phlogiston. That would make me sad.

[Catullus64]

I find it odd that there's an impression that Dark Sun is too dark, but how much darker darker is Curse of Strahd, which has been well received in this edition?

I think there's a qualitative difference between the darkness of the two settings, though my familiarity with Dark Sun is far deeper than my familiarity with Ravenloft. The Domains of Dread are nasty, miserable places to be, but they're not dystopic in the same way as Athas. Ravenloft is dark, but dark in a very psychological and emotional way, demonstrated by none better than the setting's poster boy, Strahd.

Dark Sun, as I said, is dystopic; despite all the fantastical elements, it's a lousy place to be because people made it that way. That is, it's dark in a way that's much more reflective of the darkness present in the real world, and that's very often uncomfortable to be confronted with. Dark Sun generally asks you not only to examine that dark mirror of reality, but to step into it, to be one of the people who has to live in Athas, trying to get by and often having to do morally grey (or straight-up black) things to get by. As a result it has a lot of clumsy political baggage, but it's also emotionally challenging of its players.

I don't get the sense that WotC wants to risk a product that challenging, and I don't entirely blame them. Their products in recent years seem to want to, on both the mechanical and narrative plane, give people the freedom to choose who they want to be, to feel welcomed for who they are, and to have the worlds in which they adventure be accommodating to those desires. I generally agree with that intention; for a lot of people, real life is challenging and oppressive enough without their hobbies adding to the strain. Certainly I don't seem to have lost faith in the game designers as totally as you have, even if I think they've had more misses than hits lately. But I've also made my peace with the fact that a faithful rendition of Dark Sun (again, my favorite setting) is probably not harmonious with their current goals.

[Brookshw]

As of at least 4e they can (Manual of the Planes pg. 20), so I expect 5e to pick this up once it has its own. Their inclusion in BG3 as you mentioned (which is a 5e ruleset game) certainly indicates this.

Ah, I skipped that edition. You're probably right it'll make its way into 5e.

[Psyren]

Psyren and I have very different readings of the cosmology. Here is mine.

We're not actually that different in the broad strokes. Ultimately my point was that with the right vessel or intermediary, moving from Shadowfell to Feywild would likely involve traveling through a transitive planar medium. Whether that is Ethereal, Astral, or both, I don't actually care.

As for phlogiston, we'll likely have to wait for 5e Spelljammer/MotP to get more clarity on that.


Ah, I skipped that edition. You're probably right it'll make its way into 5e.

I skipped it too, I was pointed to that source by FR Wiki.

[Millstone85]

As for phlogiston, we'll likely have to wait for 5e Spelljammer/MotP to get more clarity on that..My hope is that 5e will keep the approach used in its Dungeon of the Mad Mage adventure.


The asteroid is a quiet place most of the time, far removed from the perils and politics of Toril. The peace is interrupted every month or so by the arrival of a spelljamming vessel bearing provisions gathered from far-flung worlds. Such a vessel might be crewed by githyanki, gnomes, or some other spacefaring race.

About once a year, a githyanki-crewed astral ship delivers young githyanki to the creche. A githyanki astral ship doesn't travel through space but rather shifts in and out of the Astral Plane, appearing literally out of nowhere next to the asteroid's dock and disappearing back into the silvery void once its delivery is complete.It made the distinction between "astral ships" and regular spelljamming vessels.

[Psyren]

Nothing in that passage suggests to me that all 5e spelljammers are incapable of planar travel, so I think 4e is still the most recent rule we have on the subject.

[Millstone85]

Nothing in that passage suggests to me that all 5e spelljammers are incapable of planar travel, so I think 4e is still the most recent rule we have on the subject.The thing with 4e is that, unlike 5e, it didn't much entertain the idea of travelling from one material mortal world to another.

The 4e MotP was written exclusively from the perspective of the world of Nerath, with "spelljammers" being used to reach its gods' astral dominions and its titans' elemental realms.

[t209]

Well, Dark Sun can work. I mean Fallout is beloved franchise but maybe being whimsical dark comedy with over the top violence and a chance to make things better. (even in “bleaker” original, and sequels are usually based on good endings, like 1’s good ending became Fallout 2’s world which in turn good endings became New Vegas canon).
Though part of me wonder about Big Bad Evil guy being a Preserver (usually the “good guy”) who is essentially Master, complete with attempt to create utopia with questionable means.

[Psyren]

The thing with 4e is that, unlike 5e, it didn't much entertain the idea of travelling from one material mortal world to another.

The 4e MotP was written exclusively from the perspective of the world of Nerath, with "spelljammers" being used to reach its gods' astral dominions and its titans' elemental realms.

That's definitely one big change I expect for 5e since they are pushing "multiverse" as a concept much harder than ever.

[Millstone85]

That's definitely one big change I expect for 5e since they are pushing "multiverse" as a concept much harder than ever.So, checking my copy, I have to recede what I said, at least partially.


The cosmos is composed largely of two infinite expanses from which all other planes formed: the Astral Sea and the Elemental Chaos. These planes are levels of reality in which countless specific locales exist like finite islands adrift in the infinite—the various astral dominions and elemental realms.
Although the fundamental planes are infinite, the known astral dominions and elemental realms lie within a finite distance of each other. If a traveler journeys through a fundamental plane into the trackless reaches outside the known dominions and realms, sooner or later he or she comes to the divine dominions or elemental kingdoms of different mortal worlds. Such a journey would be unthinkably long, and it would undoubtedly be easier to find or create a portal to reach them.The same page also mentions Toril, Oerth and Krynn.

But I maintain that what the book called spelljammers had little to do with travelling between such worlds.

[KorvinStarmast]

So even if Ravenloft and Curse of Strahd exceed Dark Sun in raw level of darkness, Dark Sun seems more likely to be perceived as offensively dark.
Dark Sun is a world where the denizens have wrecked their home planet. That's standard Dying Earth (one of the pulp origins of D&D) in theme, all they did was add Mad Max. Slavery as a topic, and characters suffering from it, is rampant in the Spec Fiction/D&D/Fantasy genre's literature. Freeing slaves was, for that matter, a core theme of the campaign I just finished. (It lasted over a year). I think I understand what you are referring to, but if we look at the literature and films that this rather broad genre overlaps with, the themes Dark Sun can explore despite a harsh world are pretty broad and already used in multiple media forms.

I think there's a qualitative difference between the darkness of the two settings, though my familiarity with Dark Sun is far deeper than my familiarity with Ravenloft. OK, fair, different flavors of darkness.

Dark Sun, as I said, is dystopic; despite all the fantastical elements, it's a lousy place to be because people made it that way.
Which is quite topical in WoTC's home city. :smallwink:

Dark Sun generally asks you not only to examine that dark mirror of reality, but to step into it, to be one of the people who has to live in Athas, trying to get by and often having to do morally grey (or straight-up black) things to get by. As a result it has a lot of clumsy political baggage, but it's also emotionally challenging of its players. I will just observe that plenty of D&D-hating RPG players thrive on emotionally challenging games that are not D&D. Not sure that's a strong reason not to try.

I don't get the sense that WotC wants to risk a product that challenging, and I don't entirely blame them. They do have to answer to the Hasbro suits, yes.

Well, Dark Sun can work. I mean Fallout is beloved franchise but maybe being whimsical dark comedy with over the top violence and a chance to make things better. (even in “bleaker” original, and sequels are usually based on good endings, like 1’s good ending became Fallout 2’s world which in turn good endings became New Vegas canon). Not the only example, but a good one.

[Psyren]

As a sign of hope for the Dark Sun aficionados - it's no Athas by any means, but Ravenloft has a Domain of Dread (Hazlan) that is decently similar in theme and that officially exists in 5e. So I wouldn't count Dark Sun's themes out as being completely at odds with the edition just yet. Worst case scenario, you can just run a DS-esque campaign there and swap out the serial numbers :smallbiggrin:


So, checking my copy, I have to recede what I said, at least partially.

The same page also mentions Toril, Oerth and Krynn.

But I maintain that what the book called spelljammers had little to do with travelling between such worlds.

No argument here, spelljammers in 4e were not intended for inter-setting travel. There are guidelines to use portals or rips this way, and you might come across one that you need a spelljammer to reach, but the ship by itself can't do this.

[Ralanr]

You know they publish the MTG game right? :smalltongue:

I know. I just prefer them keeping the IP separate in all honesty. I wasn't a fan of the Adventures in Forgotten Realms until I learned they made sure to keep that out of magic canon. But when it comes to publishing D&D books in the MTG universe, I always get a bit worried about them mixing too much.

Last thing I want is for Jayce to come in an adventure module.

[KorvinStarmast]

Last thing I want is for Jayce to come in an adventure module. Isn't Jayce from League of Legends? :smallconfused:

[Xervous]

Isn't Jayce from League of Legends? :smallconfused:

Apparently so! He’s no Mind Sculptor or Architect of Thought though.

[Psyren]

He likely meant Jace (Beleren) but I'm guessing y'all knew that.

I think Planeswalkers showing up in D&D in some form is inevitable. Meeting one is just one more way to setting-hop - and a lot less clunky than DotBV.

[Dork_Forge]

He likely meant Jace (Beleren) but I'm guessing y'all knew that.

I think Planeswalkers showing up in D&D in some form is inevitable. Meeting one is just one more way to setting-hop - and a lot less clunky than DotBV.

Didn't that already happen with the gnome in Witchlight? She's the central plot device for getting the adventure started too.

[Psyren]

Didn't that already happen with the gnome in Witchlight? She's the central plot device for getting the adventure started too.

Don't have that book yet so I'll defer.

[Ralanr]

Isn't Jayce from League of Legends? :smallconfused:

Muscle memory foils me again.

[Dork_Forge]

Don't have that book yet so I'll defer.

They're not called out as being MtG, but they're called planeswalking: Ellywick Tumblestrum