Custom items, check my numbers plz...

[aglondier]

Our party is a bit chaotic at times. So I'm trying to come up with an item or two to help us survive.
I know it will have to go past my own DM, but I'd prefer to have my ducks in a row before doing so...


Effect aiming for: basically the energy resistance spell to activate in response to an elemental energy attack. Energy resist 20, for a 7th level casting of the spell. Reducing the duration down from 10 minutes per level (70 minutes) to a single minute, divided up into ten single round activations.

Cost: use activated (2000gp) x spell level (2nd) x caster level (7th) = 28,000gp
adding the limitation (reduced duration 70 mins down to 1 min) ÷70 = 400gp
adding the advantage (no body slot) x2 = 800gp

Final base cost 800gp, which becomes a crafting cost of 400gp
Spellcraft DC is 5 + caster level (7th) = 12

A choice of 3 variants here...
1. Based on the spell Celestial Healing, it grants the wearer Fast Healing 1. Slowed down to 1hp per minute.
Cost: continuous celestial healing (2000gp x4 for duration multiplier) x spell level (1st) x caster level (1st) = 8,000gp
adding the limitation (reduced activation 1/round to 1/minute) ÷10 = 800gp

2. With our sorceror in mind, it allows a twice per day casting of Cure Light Wounds (1d8+1) and autocasts Stabilise as needed but only 1/day. (he goes below 0 far too often for a caster)
Cost: command word clw (1800gp) x spell level (1st) x caster level (1st) x 2/5 (cast 2 per day) = 720gp
use activated stabilise (2000gp) x spell level (orison 0.5) x caster level (1st) x 1/5 (cast 1 per day) = 200gp

3. The vest autocasts a cut back Cure Light Wounds in response to the wearer suffering an injury, but only once per injury.
Cost: use activated clw (2000gp) x spell level (1st) x caster level (1st) = 2,000gp
adding the limitation (reduced effect 1d8+1 down to 1d4) ÷2 = 1,000gp

So,
1. Spellcraft DC 8, 400gp to craft
2. Spellcraft DC 8, 460gp to craft
3. Spellcraft DC 8, 500gp to craft.

Effect: a small pouch from which the owner can take food and water for the day. In this case up to 2d4 goodberries and juicy but bland fruits equivalent to 2 gallons of water a day. The spells Goodberry and Create Water.
Cost: command word goodberry (1800gp) x spell level (1st) x caster level (1st) x 1/5 (cast 1 per day) = 360gp
command word create water (1800gp) x spell level (orison 0.5) x caster level (1st) x 1/5 (cast 1 per day) = 180gp

Result, Spellcraft DC 8, 270gp to craft.

Effect: a once per day Featherfall that can be activated on command.
Cost: command word featherfall (1800gp) x spell level (1st) x caster level (1st) x 1/5 (cast 1/day) = 360gp
adding the advantage (no slot) x2 = 720gp

Thus, Spellcraft DC 8, 360gp to craft.

Effect: providing the cornerstones of magical duelling, magic missile and shield. The bracers let you cast Magic Missile (1d4+1) and Shield at will, but also allow you to channel your own spell slots through them to cast Magic Missile at your caster level, even if you don't know the spell.
Cost: command word magic missile (1800gp) x spell level (1st) x caster level (1st) = 1,800gp
command word shield (1800gp) x spell level (1st) x caster level (1st) = 1,800gp
effect equivalent to a page of spell knowledge (1st) 1000gp x 1.5 (multiple effects on slotted item) = 1500gp

Total, Spellcraft DC 8, 2,600gp to craft.

Effect: a combination of Arcane Mark and Detect Magic, tuned so that marked members of the party can automatically detect each other when within 60 feet. Also adding Message to allow marked members to whisper messages to each other when within range.
Cost: continuous arcane mark (2000gp) x spell level (cantrip 0.5) x caster level (1st) = 1,000gp
continuous detect magic (2000gp) x spell level (cantrip 0.5) x caster level (1st) = 1,000gp
command word message (1800gp) x spell level (cantrip 0.5) x caster level (1st) = 900gp

Limitations: this is the difficult bit, I want the spells to only interact with other people bearing the same Mark. Is a 30% discount enough? Too much? Is there a way to increase the range substantially? Citywide range would be nice.

Anyway, Spellcraft DC 8, 1,015gp to craft (based on 30% exclusivity reduction)

[Kurald Galain]

My impression,

Armband is WAY too cheap. As you're probably aware, you generally want Resist Energy for a single combat, so it doesn't really matter if it lasts 1 minute or 100 as long as it lasts longer than the combat. So the limitation isn't actually a limitation. A more reasonable price is to take a wand (10500 gp) and double the cost since you don't have to take it in your hand or make an UMD check, for 21000 gp.
Vest; the first one is effectively a Pearly White Spindle ioun stone (normal cost, 20000); the third one is like a Greater Talisman of Healing Power (which normally costs 24000). Those two items are arguably overpriced for what they do, but again your versions are WAY too cheap.
Pouch sounds reasonable at first glance, until you realize that it gives infinite food and infinite healing, and then it becomes too cheap again. Note that Goodberry already has a limit of how many berries you can eat per day, so a one-per-day limitation on the spell shouldn't count as a limitation.
Tattoo is good. Compare the Greater Talisman of Beneficial Winds which does largely the same, and costs 500 gp but takes up a slot.
Bracers look reasonably priced as long as you restrict them to casters with Magic Missile on their list (as the spell page item does).
Mark is again pretty good and feels mostly like a meta-item ("players are allowed to talk to each other for an IC reason") so that should be cheap. If you want to extend the range, that'd be the Sending spell instead of Message.


$.02 and HTH.

[King of Nowhere]

You are miscalculating all the limitations. Usable once per day is not 1/5 of the price: it's "equivalent to 50 charges". So the tattoo of feather fall should be 750x1x1x2(slotless), and would only be usable by a wizard. Usable by all -command word - would be 3600.
And if it activates by itself, then it's equivalent to continuous.
Same goes for the other objects

[Beni-Kujaku]

You are miscalculating all the limitations. Usable once per day is not 1/5 of the price: it's "equivalent to 50 charges". So the tattoo of feather fall should be 750x1x1x2(slotless), and would only be usable by a wizard. Usable by all -command word - would be 3600.
And if it activates by itself, then it's equivalent to continuous.
Same goes for the other objects

I disagree. The quintessential "it casts a spell 1/day" item is the Drow House Insignia, costing 360gp for a 1st-level spell. It is indeed "Continuous/5".

However, reducing the duration of the effect, or even the effect itself (for your Fast Healing) is absolutely not dividing the cost of the item by that much, especially for a continuous item. And yeah, if something autocasts itself, it should be considered as continuous. With an additional drawback if the spell is instantaneous, like Cure Light Wounds. Your "autocasts CLW every time the wearer is hurt" should not exist at all without a limitation similar to the curing arrows from Masters of the Wild.

[Lilapop]

The quintessential "it casts a spell 1/day" item is the Drow House Insignia, costing 360gp for a 1st-level spell. It is indeed "Continuous/5".

Not quite. The constant for continuous is 2000. What you are thinking of is five command words per day, which is 1800. And drow house insignias are actually a bad example because they are CL3, but priced as if they are CL1.



Nevertheless, most of those ideas in the OP are underpriced in one way or another, some of them seriously so.

On the armband, the core issue is abuse of the SLxCL system. You are effectively creating an item of a fictional SL 1/35th spell, which is neither a spell level nor a spell that exists. Either you go and find a weaker-but-cheaper spell (swift fly and swift invisibility come to mind), or you compare it to existing items like that one cloak in the MIC - 2/day, immediate action, 10 resistance to a single energy type for one round, not slotless, ~2k gp. Oh, and I don't see how an "armband" is slotless and not in the arms slot.

For vest1 you are again introducing a limitation that isn't one. Continuous fast healing 1 is 44k healing over the course of a day, who cares if you reduce that to 4.4k. Vest2 is missing the multiple-effects-penalty, and you are probably undervaluing the automatic activation. Vest3 is priced on another fictional spell... half the price of CLW is cure minor wounds healing 1 point, not 1d4 points.

Pouch should also have a 50% price increase on the cheaper effect and/or have the entire price doubled because slotless. I disagree with Kurald though, the amount of mundane food you'd need instead of this over the course of a full campaign would almost fit into a backpack and cost a fraction of the magic solution.

The tattoo is technically calculated correctly, but keep in mind that command word activations are standard actions even when imitating immediate action spells. You could however just get an eternal wand of feather fall.

On the bracers, one of the command word effects should be penalized for stacking, and I don't think at-will activation is supposed to be the same as 5/day.

The mark is once again missing the stacking penalty, and at least detect magic needs a duration factor (min/lvl is x2).

[Vaern]

I think the cost reduction multipliers you're improvising are probably much higher than they should be.
Increasing the casting time of an effect by 10 times doesn't necessarily constitute a 1/10 cost multiplier; the only real impact that has is that the effect can't be used practically in combat. If anything, it might be 9/10 or 3/4.
Likewise, reducing the duration of resist energy doesn't constitute a 1/70 multiplier. In this case, it's still useful as an active combat buff - just not as a long-term pre-encounter prep buff. This might be enough for maybe a 30-40% reduction, but certainly not 98.6%.

[Beni-Kujaku]

Not quite. The constant for continuous is 2000. What you are thinking of is five command words per day, which is 1800. And drow house insignias are actually a bad example because they are CL3, but priced as if they are CL1.

Agree with most of your post, but I believe the CL5 (not 3) in the DHI description is because the higher level spell it can hold is a 3rd level spell, and that it's supposed to be CL1 for 0th and 1st level, CL3 for 2nd level, and CL5 for 3rd level. In that case, it is priced correctly.

[Kurald Galain]

I disagree with Kurald though, the amount of mundane food you'd need instead of this over the course of a full campaign would almost fit into a backpack and cost a fraction of the magic solution.
True, but that assumes a high strength or a bag of holding, and mundane food spoils.

I'm aware that food shouldn't be an issue in most campaigns, but given that Create Food is a third-level spell I feel that an item that lets you ignore food issues forever should be more than 540 gp. Not ludicrously expensive, mind you, but still more than that. Solving mundane problems with magic is fun and should be doable, but not trivial.

[aglondier]

Thankyou all for responding. I'll separate my thoughts and responses to the items onto separate posts for a modicum of clarity...
The armband...

My impression,

Armband is WAY too cheap. As you're probably aware, you generally want Resist Energy for a single combat, so it doesn't really matter if it lasts 1 minute or 100 as long as it lasts longer than the combat. So the limitation isn't actually a limitation. A more reasonable price is to take a wand (10500 gp) and double the cost since you don't have to take it in your hand or make an UMD check, for 21000 gp.

$.02 and HTH.
I would say our experiences with combat are somewhat divergent. Our DM delights in blasting us with a variety of energy types over the course of a battle, so having one fixed resistance that lasts a whole battle is wasted. Having a reactive resistance that can change from round to round works much better. Hmmm...perhaps bringing it more in line with ring of energy resistance...


On the armband, the core issue is abuse of the SLxCL system. You are effectively creating an item of a fictional SL 1/35th spell, which is neither a spell level nor a spell that exists. Either you go and find a weaker-but-cheaper spell (swift fly and swift invisibility come to mind), or you compare it to existing items like that one cloak in the MIC - 2/day, immediate action, 10 resistance to a single energy type for one round, not slotless, ~2k gp. Oh, and I don't see how an "armband" is slotless and not in the arms slot.
Adding advantages or limitations that increase or decrease the cost of the item is part of the rules. The way you say "abuse of the SLxCL system" implies you don't like or allow custom item creation at your table...if so, fair enough. What discount would you allow for an item that uses barely a fraction of the full potential of a spell cast at the given caster level? A 7th level casting of Resist Energy gives energy resistance 20 and lasts for 700 rounds. I want my item to protect me for 10 rounds, or even 7 or 5 rounds. Am I investing the same amount of magic into the two effects?
Armband, ioun stone, earring, replacement tooth, left sock, fifteen foot menhir...it's just a name and a doubling of cost to not take up a precious item slot.

I think the cost reduction multipliers you're improvising are probably much higher than they should be.
Increasing the casting time of an effect by 10 times doesn't necessarily constitute a 1/10 cost multiplier; the only real impact that has is that the effect can't be used practically in combat. If anything, it might be 9/10 or 3/4.
Likewise, reducing the duration of resist energy doesn't constitute a 1/70 multiplier. In this case, it's still useful as an active combat buff - just not as a long-term pre-encounter prep buff. This might be enough for maybe a 30-40% reduction, but certainly not 98.6%.
Fair enough. Lets try that number.

Cost: use activated (2000gp) x spell level (2nd) x caster level (7th) = 28,000gp
adding the limitation (reduced duration 70 mins down to 1 min) -30% = 19,600gp
adding the advantage (no body slot) x2 = 39,200gp

7th level caster Wealth by Level: 23,500gp...mmmmm, nope....

Lets try cutting it back a little, energy resistance 10...

Cost: use activated (2000gp) x spell level (2nd) x caster level (3rd) = 12,000gp
adding the limitation (reduced duration 30 mins down to 1 min) -30% = 8,400gp
adding the advantage (no body slot) x2 = 16,800gp

...

71% of our wealth by level for an item that might help in combat...might just have to scrap this idea in favour of a couple of cheap wands of cure light wounds...

[aglondier]

On to the vest...

My impression,

Vest; the first one is effectively a Pearly White Spindle ioun stone (normal cost, 20000); the third one is like a Greater Talisman of Healing Power (which normally costs 24000). Those two items are arguably overpriced for what they do, but again your versions are WAY too cheap.

$.02 and HTH.
So, 10,000gp for a vest item to give Fast Healing 1? Or, just pick up a handful of wands of cure light wounds for a fraction of the price...

I disagree. The quintessential "it casts a spell 1/day" item is the Drow House Insignia, costing 360gp for a 1st-level spell. It is indeed "Continuous/5".

However, reducing the duration of the effect, or even the effect itself (for your Fast Healing) is absolutely not dividing the cost of the item by that much, especially for a continuous item. And yeah, if something autocasts itself, it should be considered as continuous. With an additional drawback if the spell is instantaneous, like Cure Light Wounds. Your "autocasts CLW every time the wearer is hurt" should not exist at all without a limitation similar to the curing arrows from Masters of the Wild.
I can agree that Instantaneous spells might not qualify for Continuous enchantment, fair enough.

Not quite. The constant for continuous is 2000. What you are thinking of is five command words per day, which is 1800. And drow house insignias are actually a bad example because they are CL3, but priced as if they are CL1.

Nevertheless, most of those ideas in the OP are underpriced in one way or another, some of them seriously so.

For vest1 you are again introducing a limitation that isn't one. Continuous fast healing 1 is 44k healing over the course of a day, who cares if you reduce that to 4.4k. Vest2 is missing the multiple-effects-penalty, and you are probably undervaluing the automatic activation. Vest3 is priced on another fictional spell... half the price of CLW is cure minor wounds healing 1 point, not 1d4 points.

Vest 1 well, requiring a lengthy attunement might cover that, preventing it from being handed around.
Vest 2 doesn't have multiple different effects, it has multiple similar effects which gets you a discount.
Vest 3 well, cure minor wounds doesn't exist in Pathfinder sadly. So, using only a fraction of a spells full potential in return for a discount is unreasonable?

So, the least objectionable seems to be option 2.
Cost: command word clw (1800gp) x spell level (1st) x caster level (1st) x 2/5 (cast 2 per day) = 720gp
use activated stabilise (2000gp) x spell level (orison 0.5) x caster level (1st) x 1/5 (cast 1 per day) x 0.75 (multiple similar) = 150gp
Spellcraft DC 8, 435gp to craft

[Kurald Galain]

A 7th level casting of Resist Energy gives energy resistance 20 and lasts for 700 rounds. I want my item to protect me for 10 rounds, or even 7 or 5 rounds. Am I investing the same amount of magic into the two effects?
It is reasonable to give a discount on the latter. However, in both cases the duration is effectively "more than you need", so it shouldn't be a large discount. The item costs so much because you want 20 resist instead of 10 resist, not because of its duration.

So make it 20% cheaper but not 98% cheaper.

[aglondier]

The pouch...

My impression,

Pouch sounds reasonable at first glance, until you realize that it gives infinite food and infinite healing, and then it becomes too cheap again. Note that Goodberry already has a limit of how many berries you can eat per day, so a one-per-day limitation on the spell shouldn't count as a limitation.

$.02 and HTH.
The 8 berries consumed a day limitation of the spell was assumed for the item.

Not quite. The constant for continuous is 2000. What you are thinking of is five command words per day, which is 1800. And drow house insignias are actually a bad example because they are CL3, but priced as if they are CL1.

Nevertheless, most of those ideas in the OP are underpriced in one way or another, some of them seriously so.

Pouch should also have a 50% price increase on the cheaper effect and/or have the entire price doubled because slotless. I disagree with Kurald though, the amount of mundane food you'd need instead of this over the course of a full campaign would almost fit into a backpack and cost a fraction of the magic solution.
Two spells that produce sustenance are a similar effect, not different ones. Fair enough for the doubling for slotless.

True, but that assumes a high strength or a bag of holding, and mundane food spoils.

I'm aware that food shouldn't be an issue in most campaigns, but given that Create Food is a third-level spell I feel that an item that lets you ignore food issues forever should be more than 540 gp. Not ludicrously expensive, mind you, but still more than that. Solving mundane problems with magic is fun and should be doable, but not trivial.

Effect: a small pouch from which the owner can take food and water for the day. In this case up to 2d4 goodberries and juicy but bland fruits equivalent to 2 gallons of water a day. The spells Goodberry and Create Water.
Cost: command word goodberry (1800gp) x spell level (1st) x caster level (1st) x 1/5 (cast 1 per day) = 360gp
command word create water (1800gp) x spell level (orison 0.5) x caster level (1st) x 1/5 (cast 1 per day) = 180gp
add advantage (no slot) x2 = 1080gp
Result, Spellcraft DC 8, 540gp to craft.

[aglondier]

My impression,

Tattoo is good. Compare the Greater Talisman of Beneficial Winds which does largely the same, and costs 500 gp but takes up a slot.

$.02 and HTH.

Not quite. The constant for continuous is 2000. What you are thinking of is five command words per day, which is 1800. And drow house insignias are actually a bad example because they are CL3, but priced as if they are CL1.

Nevertheless, most of those ideas in the OP are underpriced in one way or another, some of them seriously so.

The tattoo is technically calculated correctly, but keep in mind that command word activations are standard actions even when imitating immediate action spells. You could however just get an eternal wand of feather fall.

Well, one out of six is...better than zero 😁

[Elysiume]

On the armband, the core issue is abuse of the SLxCL system. You are effectively creating an item of a fictional SL 1/35th spell, which is neither a spell level nor a spell that exists. Either you go and find a weaker-but-cheaper spell (swift fly and swift invisibility come to mind), or you compare it to existing items like that one cloak in the MIC - 2/day, immediate action, 10 resistance to a single energy type for one round, not slotless, ~2k gp. Oh, and I don't see how an "armband" is slotless and not in the arms slot.
Adding advantages or limitations that increase or decrease the cost of the item is part of the rules. The way you say "abuse of the SLxCL system" implies you don't like or allow custom item creation at your table...if so, fair enough.That's an unfair (and honestly rude) reading of Lilapop's post. In general, the rules for custom items aren't even really rules: they're guidelines, and the table for the base prices is labeled "estimating magic item gold piece values" (emphasis mine). The way you're modifying durations (armbands) and frequencies (vest) aren't even options included in the loose guidelines, and I would not take them for granted if you haven't pre-cleared them with your DM.

Custom item of Death Ward: 7 (CL) x 4 (SL) x 2000 (continuous) x 2 (footnote 2) = 112,000gp
Custom item of Death Ward that activates for 1 round, 10x per day, that activates in response to a death, energy drain, or negative energy effect, including channeled negative energy: 7 (CL) x 4 (SL) x 2000 (use activated) x 2 (footnote 2) x 1/70 (duration/charges?) = 1,600gp

Would you, as a DM, allow someone to create that second custom item of Death Ward? I sure wouldn't, and I would view it as someone trying to twist custom item creation to create a drastically undercosted item, because, as Kurald said:

It is reasonable to give a discount on the latter. However, in both cases the duration is effectively "more than you need", so it shouldn't be a large discount. The item costs so much because you want 20 resist instead of 10 resist, not because of its duration.

So make it 20% cheaper but not 98% cheaper.Resist Energy is useless on any round where you're not taking energy damage. Death Ward is useless on any round where you're not getting hit with death effects or negative energy. Creating a custom item that's perfectly tailored to be active when you need it and not when you're not isn't applying a restriction to its full effect, and should not affect the item's price to that extent. I can understand the rationale that X% of the effect should be X% of the price, but something being mathematically X% of the effect doesn't mean that it only has X% of the utility and, ultimately, value.

[aglondier]

My impression,

Bracers look reasonably priced as long as you restrict them to casters with Magic Missile on their list (as the spell page item does).

$.02 and HTH.
Noted.

Not quite. The constant for continuous is 2000. What you are thinking of is five command words per day, which is 1800. And drow house insignias are actually a bad example because they are CL3, but priced as if they are CL1.

Nevertheless, most of those ideas in the OP are underpriced in one way or another, some of them seriously so.

On the bracers, one of the command word effects should be penalized for stacking, and I don't think at-will activation is supposed to be the same as 5/day.
Infinite casting 1800, 1/day casting 360. Or however your table interprets it...
Two spells are a similar item, the 'spell page' is different and i applied the penalty.

[Elysiume]

The mark is interesting, but I think it's trying to do too much. I think focusing on the "identify and communicate with members of my party" aspect is more compelling without the permanent Detect Magic aspect, which I'm assuming (correct me if I'm wrong) is there to identify the Arcane Marks. I'm curious what your goal is here — is the main thing identifying party members? Communicating with them? If the main goal is identifying party members, is that something your DM has been intentionally trying to make difficult (in which case there may be no price point they allow)? I'm not sure how to work it into an item you'd want, but Pack Empathy is an interesting spell that gives you a degree of intra-party communication at "anywhere on this plane" ranges.

I think the bracer is reasonable when restricted to classes that can cast it, and I also enjoy the flavor of sticking a spell and its counter in one item. Kind of reminds me of the Apprentice's Cheating Gloves (https://aonprd.com/MagicWondrousDisplay.aspx?FinalName=Apprentice%27s %20Cheating%20Gloves), but for dueling instead of rudimentary magic. I like it!

The pouch is reasonable for me, with campaign caveats. In my experience, food and water either matter or they don't: not much in the middle. Gritty survival can be difficult to implement in Pathfinder due to the availability of food/water via spells at low levels, but if your DM isn't trying to overtly restrict that, I think the pouch is reasonable (and practical, you'd think that the Pathfinder Society would be handing them out).

[aglondier]

That's an unfair (and honestly rude) reading of Lilapop's post.

Possibly, no offense was intended, and I offer an apology if it did. In my defense, it's currently over 40°C here which makes getting a little defensive to criticism rather easy...


In general, the rules for custom items aren't even really rules: they're guidelines, and the table for the base prices is labeled "estimating magic item gold piece values" (emphasis mine).

*sigh* I'll be sure to take note of that should I ever find myself at your gaming table. In the meantime, can we assume that the Item Creation rules (emphasis mine) are in play at my table?


The way you're modifying durations (armbands) and frequencies (vest) aren't even options included in the loose guidelines, and I would not take them for granted if you haven't pre-cleared them with your DM. Modifying the duration (armbands) or frequency (vest) of an effect and modifying the cost by the same ratio isn't even included in the guidelines.

Custom item of Death Ward: 7 (CL) x 4 (SL) x 2000 (continuous) x 2 (footnote 2) = 112,000gp
Custom item of Death Ward that activates for 1 round, 10x per day, that activates in response to a death, energy drain, or negative energy effect, including channeled negative energy: 7 (CL) x 4 (SL) x 2000 (use activated) x 2 (footnote 2) x 1/70 (duration/charges?) = 1,600gp

Would you, as a DM, allow someone to create that second custom item of Death Ward? I sure wouldn't, and I would view it as someone trying to twist custom item creation to create a drastically undercosted item, because, as Kurald said:
Resist Energy is useless on any round where you're not taking energy damage. Death Ward is useless on any round where you're not getting hit with death effects or negative energy. Creating a custom item that's perfectly tailored to be active when you need it and not when you're not isn't applying a restriction to its full effect, and should not affect the item's price to that extent.

Fair enough. I fully admit I'm guilty as hell of trying to scrape any and every coppers worth of advantage I can get.
Our party has an amazing collection of useless magic items that none of us will ever use, it takes months to sell them, and we get maybe a day or so downtime in a month or more of solid action. We don't have 112 days of downtime to enchant an item for a single party member. In three years of fortnightly games, barely 2 months of game time has passed. So, yes, trying to shave time and costs as much as possible. Trying to get imaginative, because threat ratings are going up, but our wealth by level is tied up in #@$% noone can use.

...and delete blathering diatribe...

Magic Items, for me, are a chance to get creative and try to leverage our abilities against the overwhelming weight of the campaign setting. Why allow players to take item creation feats at all, if you're not willing to lets them fly?

And as a frequent and long term DM, yes, I would take a long hard look at an item before approving it. Which is why I'm here getting your opinions before dumping it on my own DM...

[aglondier]

The mark is interesting, but I think it's trying to do too much. I think focusing on the "identify and communicate with members of my party" aspect is more compelling without the permanent Detect Magic aspect, which I'm assuming (correct me if I'm wrong) is there to identify the Arcane Marks. I'm curious what your goal is here — is the main thing identifying party members? Communicating with them? If the main goal is identifying party members, is that something your DM has been intentionally trying to make difficult (in which case there may be no price point they allow)? I'm not sure how to work it into an item you'd want, but Pack Empathy is an interesting spell that gives you a degree of intra-party communication at "anywhere on this plane" ranges.

I think the bracer is reasonable when restricted to classes that can cast it, and I also enjoy the flavor of sticking a spell and its counter in one item. Kind of reminds me of the Apprentice's Cheating Gloves (https://aonprd.com/MagicWondrousDisplay.aspx?FinalName=Apprentice%27s %20Cheating%20Gloves), but for dueling instead of rudimentary magic. I like it!

The pouch is reasonable for me, with campaign caveats. In my experience, food and water either matter or they don't: not much in the middle. Gritty survival can be difficult to implement in Pathfinder due to the availability of food/water via spells at low levels, but if your DM isn't trying to overtly restrict that, I think the pouch is reasonable (and practical, you'd think that the Pathfinder Society would be handing them out).

We haven't had the problem yet, but we know there is a shapeshifting bounty hunter in the city with us, and I'm working on a way to avoid the problem before it becomes one.
Our sorceror is a little evocation-happy but has problems with understanding the ramifications of Area of Effect, thus the Armband.
Our druid's response was to not take Precise Shot and always stand behind him, and thus the need for the sorceror to have a vest of healing.
The pouch and tattoo are just basic adventurer survival gear.
And the bracers might keep our wizard alive for a few more sessions despite his lemming bard tendencies...

[Elysiume]

Possibly, no offense was intended, and I offer an apology if it did. In my defense, it's currently over 40°C here which makes getting a little defensive to criticism rather easy...I'm pretty sure I'd die at 40°C, which bodes ill for me over the next few decades. I thought it was unfair to take "the core issue is abuse of the SLxCL system" and conclude "[that] implies you don't like or allow custom item creation at your table."

*sigh* I'll be sure to take note of that should I ever find myself at your gaming table. In the meantime, can we assume that the Item Creation rules (emphasis mine) are in play at my table?Maybe my point didn't come across here? Asking the DM "hey, the rules say I can do X if I take feats P, Q, and R, is that cool?" is one thing. Asking the DM "hey, the custom item guidelines say I can make Y for Zgp" is another. It's not following strictly codified rules, but it's following the guidelines. Like the custom race builder, you can make something balanced, or you can make something ridiculous, and the DM needs to decide which is which. Adding new multipliers is a significant step further into "the DM needs to decide" territory.

Fair enough. I fully admit I'm guilty as hell of trying to scrape any and every coppers worth of advantage I can get.
Our party has an amazing collection of useless magic items that none of us will ever use, it takes months to sell them, and we get maybe a day or so downtime in a month or more of solid action. We don't have 112 days of downtime to enchant an item for a single party member. In three years of fortnightly games, barely 2 months of game time has passed. So, yes, trying to shave time and costs as much as possible. Trying to get imaginative, because threat ratings are going up, but our wealth by level is tied up in #@$% noone can use.

...and delete blathering diatribe...

Magic Items, for me, are a chance to get creative and try to leverage our abilities against the overwhelming weight of the campaign setting. Why allow players to take item creation feats at all, if you're not willing to lets them fly?

And as a frequent and long term DM, yes, I would take a long hard look at an item before approving it. Which is why I'm here getting your opinions before dumping it on my own DM...I can sympathize; for the main campaign I'm in right now (as a player), my initial character was rotated out for a side story because that made things more interesting, and I brought in a new character at level 9. We're almost 13 now and her net worth has increased by ~2000gp since then. I'm using a +1 scimitar at level 12, we haven't been able to buy meaningful items in ages, and we don't have the time to craft (our arcanist has Craft Wondrous Item and I forgot because she hasn't made anything in 6+ irl months). I see where you're coming from for trying to slash the prices creatively, and the limiting factor being time rather than price is an interesting wrinkle. In those circumstances I think it could be neat to craft shoddy, disposable magic items, thrown together in a panic because you don't have the time.

That said, "I'll be sure to take note of that should I ever find myself at your gaming table" doesn't indicate a lot of interest in how I'd handle the rules, so I'll just say best of luck and I hope you have a fun campaign!

[King of Nowhere]

We haven't had the problem yet, but we know there is a shapeshifting bounty hunter in the city with us, and I'm working on a way to avoid the problem before it becomes one.
Our sorceror is a little evocation-happy but has problems with understanding the ramifications of Area of Effect, thus the Armband.
Our druid's response was to not take Precise Shot and always stand behind him, and thus the need for the sorceror to have a vest of healing.
The pouch and tattoo are just basic adventurer survival gear.
And the bracers might keep our wizard alive for a few more sessions despite his lemming bard tendencies...

so, instead of trying to sweet talk the dm into allowing specific magic items for a fraction of their cost, wouldn't it be better to teach the sorcerer to be more mindful of hitting party members, the druid to not shoot in melee, the wizard that he's not a front-liner?:smallconfused::smallbiggrin:

[aglondier]

so, instead of trying to sweet talk the dm into allowing specific magic items for a fraction of their cost, wouldn't it be better to teach the sorcerer to be more mindful of hitting party members, the druid to not shoot in melee, the wizard that he's not a front-liner?:smallconfused::smallbiggrin:

...now where's the fun in that?

[Balthanon]

Limitations: this is the difficult bit, I want the spells to only interact with other people bearing the same Mark. Is a 30% discount enough? Too much? Is there a way to increase the range substantially? Citywide range would be nice.

Anyway, Spellcraft DC 8, 1,015gp to craft (based on 30% exclusivity reduction)

So like others, I think a lot of these items are underpriced for what they do-- it's too easy to break the "here is 'X' spell, add this multiplier and you're good to go' and they explicitly call that out in the magic item creation guidelines with the true strike example.

For the portion I quoted above specifically, that bit you described isn't a limitation on the Mark, it's a feature given the desire to make it only react to other members of the team as a means of identification, so I don't think it merits a discount.

For the vest of healing specifically, you probably need to compare your items to a standard Healing Belt at a minimum-- all of those are better than that for the most part and you have them priced pretty close to it. The fast healing in particular is probably way underpriced given that it basically eliminates out of combat healing almost entirely.

[icefractal]

I'd approach these limitations similarly to custom limitations in Hero - how much impact does it have on the utility of the effect?

So "Death Ward, 3 rounds/day, auto-activates" for example. Compared to a version which in always-on:
* If the wearer never faces more than three death/negative effects per day, it's equally good.
* If they face up to six (on days they face them at all), then it's half as good.
* If they almost always face three or less, but occasionally do face more, then it's somewhere between those depending on how often "occasionally" is.

Some of these are underpriced to the point they'd need a very generous GM ruling. And in that case, maybe just ask for more generousity with treasure?

[Vaern]

71% of our wealth by level for an item that might help in combat...might just have to scrap this idea in favour of a couple of cheap wands of cure light wounds...

There's also potions of energy resistance. If a permanent magic item is both out of your price range and too situational to justify emptying your wallet on, taking the consumable alternative for those just-in-case scenarios is probably your best bet.

I think Pathfinder has a magic potion flask that refills itself every day with whatever potion you initially supply it with, but I don't know what the price tag on that looks like off the top of my head and I don't remember what it was called. Basically the potion equivalent to eternal wands. Might be worth looking into.

There's also a feat and an item from PHB2, I think, that allows you to supply the XP for someone else to craft an item for you. You can effectively cut the cost of any item in half by supplying the required XP yourself to assist with the crafting process, if you don't mind taking a couple extra encounters to level up.

[vasilidor]

For the slotless armband, if you set the casting level to 3 and make it once a day it would cost 4320 GP.
For the vest, a comparable item would be the Determination Armor Enhancement. Causes your armor to cast Breath Of Life if you drop below 0 for 30000. having it cast a cantrip on the same condition, even if it is every time in a day, should be cheaper. Making it cast Cure Light Wounds 5 times a day on command would cost 1800 gold on top of that.
The Provisioners bag is actually quite reasonable.
I have mixed feelings about the duelist bracers and am refraining from comment.
Mark of The Adventuring Party seems ok to me.