Need some help understanding Illusion (Shadow) spells

[Max Caysey]

So, basically how does these spells work?

My question, to clarify is about understanding when shadow spells are subject to a will disbelief save and when not. Some shadow spells seem to have it and some don’t.

Also when applying feats like Enhanced Shadow Reality, how does that affect spells which are not shadow conjuration/ evocation?

I was under the expression that all shadow spells that dealt damage would do 20% on a successful save, is this true?

Like claws of darkness is drawing shadow stuff from the plane of shadow, just like shadow conjuration, yet seem to not have will disbelief nor the 20% damage on a successful save…

So it all seems a bit weird!

Cheers

[Tzardok]

Illusion (Shadow) spells don't really have a common way they work. despite what the Player's Handbook states. They only have a common theme, namely using shadow stuff to do something. You need to look at any given Shadow spell for itself.

So, a Shadow is subject to Will, disbelief if the description says that it is. Shadow Conjuration is, Projected Image or Shadow Travel aren't.

Shadow Conjuration and Shadow Evocation deal 20% of their damage if successfully disbelieved, but Greater Shadow Conjuration and Greater Shadow Evocation deal 60% and Shadow deals 80%. Other Shadow effects may not have any rules like this.

I don't know where Greater Shadow Reality and Claws of Darkness are from, so I can't easily look them up to see what they do.

[Jack_Simth]

Enhanced Shadow Reality, Dragon 352?

It affects damage only, and then only when the target makes their will disbelief. So if you have it, and have a Shadow Conjouration summon attacking two people, one of whom saves, one of whom doesn't:
1) The beast still has only 20% of the normal HP.
2) The target who failed the save takes 100% damage.
3) The target who made the save takes 40% damage.

Make sense? Well, no, it's a Shadow spell. Sorry. Are the mechanics sufficiently predictable?

[Max Caysey]

Thanks… I thought they like had a common rule which I could apply to all (Shadow) spells… at least that’s how I would have thought they worked… so I assume that the 20% damage is only on the shadow conjuration/evocation line of spells… things like Claws of Shadow dont mention that so I assume that - despite the spell dealing damage - don’t have that…

So really something like Enhances Shadow Reality have a very limited scope. I thought is was all damage from (Shadow) spells?

[Tzardok]

Whoever created that feat propably made the same mistake you made: thinking that effects like that were typical for Shadow spells.

[Max Caysey]

Whoever created that feat propably made the same mistake you made: thinking that effects like that were typical for Shadow spells.

Yeah… not the first time game mechanics designers seems to misunderstand the rules… damn… probably need to have a talk with my DM 😮*💨