A Dead Creature's Turn.

[Lupine]

I partially think I know how you all are gonna rule this, but it is worth asking. The Orc War Chief has an ability, "Battle Cry" which gives orcs on his side advantage on all attacks until the war chief's next turn.
I recall that dead creatures do not have turns anymore.
Thus, if the war chief dies before his turn, it is ambiguous what happens to his battle cry.

As I started, I'm pretty sure you all are going to say that the effect ends immediately (And for sure, this is the most balenced)

But the way that it is written, the orcs would have advantage forever, since the orc chief no longer has a turn for his battle cry to expire on. Further, this actually is a really cool roleplay thing, that if the orc chief is slain while giving a battle cry, his orcs go mad with rage.

Anyway, just a random thing I wanted to see if I was wrong about. If you have any RAW that answers this, or disproves my thought process, I'd love to see it.

[Kurt Kurageous]

I partially think I know how you all are gonna rule this, but it is worth asking. The Orc War Chief has an ability, "Battle Cry" which gives orcs on his side advantage on all attacks until the war chief's next turn. I recall that dead creatures do not have turns anymore.

Dead means incapacitated condition (can take no actions). The dead come up in initiative order to make death saves if eligible. They still have a 'turn.'

I have no idea on RAI here, but the war cry is a boost to the individuals who heard it.

[ProsecutorGodot]

I would definitely say it expires when the chiefs turn would have come up. I might also even rule that because the effect is based on the Chief's presence that it would end immediately when they are killed.

I think is a reasonably close ruling to what would be intended, WotC doesn't typically design around how interactions can "break" if a creature dies. For example, Swarmkeeper Ranger saw an errata to replace "until you die" with "while you're alive" because an entirely valid reading of the ability meant it ceased to function permanently if the Ranger died.

I don't think there's actually any RAW to refute the idea that the effect would last permanently. Honestly just play it how you feel most appropriate.


Dead means incapacitated condition (can take no actions). The dead come up in initiative order to make death saves if eligible. They still have a 'turn.'

I have no idea on RAI here, but the war cry is a boost to the individuals who heard it.
Technically true, though this isn't a hard and fast rule and is purely at the DM's discretion. The rules assume that most DM's will have a monster die without falling unconscious as those rules are primarily for the player characters.

[Segev]

The image of orcs who were "normally" lost in a bloodlust fugue due to the hyping up of their warchief hearing the ghost of their warchief's final scream in their minds until they, themselves, die, unable to stop fighting, unable to stop hearing the scream, unable to stop because he won't stop screaming and screaming and screaming....

It's very horror, and horror-of-war. :smallcool:

[Psyren]

RAW aside, the main question you should ask is which is more fun for the players?

Personally I would reward, not punish, them for taking down the warchief fast. No neverending buff, and I'd evaluate whether the remaining orcs would even want to keep fighting once their leader goes down or whether they'd prefer to retreat.

[Lupine]

RAW aside, the main question you should ask is which is more fun for the players?

Personally I would reward, not punish, them for taking down the warchief fast. No neverending buff, and I'd evaluate whether the remaining orcs would even want to keep fighting once their leader goes down or whether they'd prefer to retreat.

While that's fair, I actually probably wouldn't pop the battle cry until later in the battle, as a "turn the tide" type thing.

Also, there's a playstyle of "combat as puzzle," which can be very fun (see: The Witcher). Learning that a specific type of monster needs to be treated in a specific way can be really rewarding -- similar to how witcher players learn to cast Axii on Alghouls when the Alghoul has its spines out, because otherwise, they take damage.


Segev, that idea is villainous, and I love it. I run a pretty grimdark world, and I think my players would snap this up.

[Lunali]

Dead means incapacitated condition (can take no actions). The dead come up in initiative order to make death saves if eligible. They still have a 'turn.'

I have no idea on RAI here, but the war cry is a boost to the individuals who heard it.

Dead means you're an object not a creature anymore. Being at 0 hp is not the same as being dead.

I would still count their turn in initiative as long as it's relevant, in this case that would be until the war cry wears off. For a PC, that might be until they get a revivify or it becomes clear that they aren't going to get one.

[Keravath]

I'd let the effects of the Battle Cry last until the end of when the war chief's next turn would have been. I wouldn't tend to end it early nor go any longer.

[OddlucK]

The image of orcs who were "normally" lost in a bloodlust fugue due to the hyping up of their warchief hearing the ghost of their warchief's final scream in their minds until they, themselves, die, unable to stop fighting, unable to stop hearing the scream, unable to stop because he won't stop screaming and screaming and screaming....

It's very horror, and horror-of-war. :smallcool:

I absolutely LOVE this interpretation! It may not be RAW or RAI, but it's definitely RAH (Rules As Horror) and isn't that really the goal of all we meagre DM's? :amused:

[Leon]

If it was already in effect it will end on what would have been the War chiefs turn as its not there to sustain or reuse it

[Psyren]

I run a pretty grimdark world, and I think my players would snap this up.

Then yes - in a grimdark world, "take out the leader" potentially being a bad thing/backfire tactic is reasonable.

[Demonslayer666]

I also would agree that the effect ends on the War Chief's initiative count, whether he is actually dead or at zero hp.

[JNAProductions]

I also would agree that the effect ends on the War Chief's initiative count, whether he is actually dead or at zero hp.

Generally speaking, this is what I'd do too.

The ideas bandied about here are definitely cool! But are also the kind of thing to be used with care, since it's a pretty significant boost to your foes.