Anyone know why Pathfinder Hobgoblins have Grey skin?

[Draconi Redfir]

Bit of a silly question, not one i expect to turn into any major discussion or anything, but something that's been on my mind for the past couple of days since I'm playing a Hobgoblin character in a Pathfinder game at the moment.

So of course, we have the Hobgoblins in Order of the Stick (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0148.html) who are set in 3.5 edition, and they have orange skin. They were actually my first real encounter with Hobgoblins in media, as OOTS was my first real D&D-related experience. As a direct result, my own Hobgoblin (https://s3.amazonaws.com/files.d20.io/images/248024537/hI9o5DvG6LkYrHF1cEc4hQ/med.png?1633037758) that I'm currently playing also has orange skin, as i both figured that was standard, and as a little homage to Gobbotopia and the other OoTS Hobgoblin content.

Later on, i brought in that same Hobgoblin character to a 5th edition campaign, and while 5th edition Hobgoblins do seem a bit more red then orange (https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/692623832107974678/935915040836583494/female_hobgoblin.jpg), the colour isn't too far off, so my own character still fits within 5th edition lore.


Pathfinder hobgoblins though have a much different look to them, sporting Grey skin (https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/692623832107974678/935915262954336276/pathfinder_hobgoblin.jpg) rather then any kind or orange or red. In my pathfinder game, the DM actually had a little exchange between two NPC's where one couldn't recognize the species of a few of the PC's, my Hogbolin included due to her orange skin tone. It was a purely humorous exchange that nobody had any issue with, but it did get me thinking... why?

Do you think there was any real reason for Paizo changing the skin tone of the Hobgoblin? seems like an odd thing to change while keeping the rest of the species more or less the same as the D&D incarnation, maybe they just wanted a bit of a less radical colour or something? something a bit more realistic? Granted they did make Pathfinder goblins look... kinda weird, with their large ball-shaped heads and big soulless solid red eyes, so I'm not too sure if "Realism" was really a goal there.

I dunno, just something I've been thinking about recently. Any thoughts? Could always just be an Aesthetic thing i suppose.

[Manyasone]

For what it's worth, I find that the very best representation of Hobgoblins has been made by Kenzerco in their 3rd edition Kingdoms of Kalamar setting.
The book in question is called "Strength and Honor: The Mighty Hobgoblins of Tellene"
Kalamar as a setting in itself is weird and not always in a good way. But I find the way they picture the Hobs to be very satisfying, especially as antagonists.

Do what you will with this info.

[Wintermoot]

Artistic license.

Every edition of D&D (and, in some cases every world setting within editions) have different takes on different stock monsters. The pictures in the 2nd edition Mostrous Compendium were different than the pictures in the 1st edition, 3rd edition, 4th edition, 5th edition, Pathfinder edition, etc etc.

My mental image(s) are largely based on 2nd edition because that was my formative edition (well really BECMI was, but they had very few pictures to form impressions)

I wouldn't read too much into it beyond that.

[Draconi Redfir]

Artistic license.

Every edition of D&D (and, in some cases every world setting within editions) have different takes on different stock monsters. The pictures in the 2nd edition Mostrous Compendium were different than the pictures in the 1st edition, 3rd edition, 4th edition, 5th edition, Pathfinder edition, etc etc.

My mental image(s) are largely based on 2nd edition because that was my formative edition (well really BECMI was, but they had very few pictures to form impressions)

I wouldn't read too much into it beyond that.

Probably right. just thought it was a strange thing to change with so much else staying the same. Meh, NBD other then needing to do a small amount of homebrew in the Pathfinder game. We already made an entire kingdom of catfolk cannon, different-coloured hobgoblins is nothing in comparison.

[Wintermoot]

Probably right. just thought it was a strange thing to change with so much else staying the same. Meh, NBD other then needing to do a small amount of homebrew in the Pathfinder game. We already made an entire kingdom of catfolk cannon, different-coloured hobgoblins is nothing in comparison.

Perhaps it's like the DS9 episode addressing the differences in Klingons from TOS to the TNG era.

PC1: "Wait. Those are hobgoblins?"
PC2: "What happened?"
Hobgoblin: "We don't talk about it"

[smetzger]

Because the preferred the British spelling? :)

I mix an match my minis for hobgoblins. They just have different color skins like us humans.

[Draconi Redfir]

Perhaps it's like the DS9 episode addressing the differences in Klingons from TOS to the TNG era.

PC1: "Wait. Those are hobgoblins?"
PC2: "What happened?"
Hobgoblin: "We don't talk about it"

Snrk, maybe that's it :smalltongue:


Because the preferred the British spelling? :)

I mix an match my minis for hobgoblins. They just have different color skins like us humans.

Yeah, think the 2nd NPC that was talking to the first (who wasn't sure what half the party was species-wise) explained that Hobgoblins look different depending on what region their from or something, so mine just comes from a region where they're orange. To be fair, the continent we're on doesn't have a lot of Hobgoblins, and mine comes from one of the few settlements on it. so it'd make sense.

[ShurikVch]

From the previous editions:


The hairy hides of hobgoblins range from dark reddish-brown to gray black.

Hobgoblins are stocky humanoids with hairy, dark red to dark gray hides.

Their hairy hides range from dark reddish-brown to dark gray

Apparently, "gray" coloration was always an option in earlier editions
3E designers decided, for some reason, to limit it to "dark orange or red-orange skin"
Designers of Paizo either disliked it, or just wanted to differ from WotC - and the metaphorical pendulum swung another way...

[Draconi Redfir]

Apparently, "gray" coloration was always an option in earlier editions
3E designers decided, for some reason, to limit it to "dark orange or red-orange skin"
Designers of Paizo either disliked it, or just wanted to differ from WotC - and the metaphorical pendulum swung another way...

Now you see what this tells me is that at some point in D&D's path, all or most of the Gray-skinned Hobgoblins migrated through a portal or something that ended up leading to the Pathfinder world, the resulting bottleneck caused gray skin to die out in D&D, and Orange-red skin to die out in Pathfinder.

Conclusion: Pathfinder Hobgoblins and D&D Hobgoblins are close cousins to one another, and share a recent common ancestor on the family tree.

[wilphe]

Its hard to make grey look interesting and it doesn't print too well especially in black and white

For similar reasons Drow often aren't actually black

[Psyren]

Now you see what this tells me is that at some point in D&D's path, all or most of the Gray-skinned Hobgoblins migrated through a portal or something that ended up leading to the Pathfinder world, the resulting bottleneck caused gray skin to die out in D&D, and Orange-red skin to die out in D&D.

Conclusion: Pathfinder Hobgoblins and D&D Hobgoblins are close cousins to one another, and share a recent common ancestor on the family tree.

They were made by different deities entirely (Maglubiyet in D&D, Lamashtu in PF). Why do they need to share a common ancestor?

[Wintermoot]

pathfinder hobgoblins actually have orange skin, but the entire race smear themselves in ash every morning as part of their ablutions.

[Dr_Dinosaur]

They were made by different deities entirely (Maglubiyet in D&D, Lamashtu in PF). Why do they need to share a common ancestor?

They were making a joke about how gray hobgoblins vanished from D&D sourcebooks between editions, by implying all of them traveled to Golarion