Is Peace Domain Cleric broken without Bless?

[werescythe]

So, I hear lots of people talking about how broken the Peace Domain cleric domain from Tasha's can be pretty broken when using both the Bless spell and the Emboldening Bond, seeing as both can stack. However, as "cool" as that is, there are other spells that I prefer to use as a cleric that use concentration, like Spirit Guardians more fun/interesting.

Thus, I figured I would ask, if a Peace Domain cleric isn't using Bless with his Emboldening Bond would this subclass still be broken?

[LudicSavant]

So, I hear lots of people talking about how broken the Peace Domain cleric domain from Tasha's can be pretty broken when using both the Bless spell and the Emboldening Bond, seeing as both can stack. However, as "cool" as that is, there are other spells that I prefer to use as a cleric that use concentration, like Spirit Guardians more fun/interesting.

Thus, I figured I would ask, if a Peace Domain cleric isn't using Bless with his Emboldening Bond would this subclass still be broken?

Peace Domain's abilities aren't super-strong because of Bless. They're just super strong in general, with whatever good Concentration spells you choose to contribute to the party.

The fact that Bless stacks just means that it's not ruled out of that list of good Concentration spells for a Peace Cleric to use. It's perfectly happy to use other ones too, like say Summon Celestial.

[stoutstien]

Peace Domain's abilities aren't super-strong because of Bless. They're just super strong in general, with whatever good Concentration spells you choose to contribute to the party.

The fact that Bless stacks just means that it's not ruled out of that list of good Concentration spells for a Peace Cleric to use. It's perfectly happy to use other ones too, like say Summon Celestial.

Aye. Not quite broken though as a dip option it's knocking on the door.

[Greywander]

I think it's more akin to how a caster with racial flying doesn't need to concentrate on Fly, and thus can concentrate on a different spell while also being able to fly around.

Emboldening Bond doesn't use your concentration. Even if it was just a concentration-free Bless, it would still be pretty good, the fact that it's considered a separate effect and thus can stack with Bless is just the cherry on top. Being able to have Bless or a Bless-like effect up while also being able to concentrate on another great spell is what makes it good. It's later features that allow damage sharing are also really nice, making it even better.

I wouldn't say it's broken, it's just very good. Definitely one of the stronger subclasses for an already strong class. I don't think it's so good that I'd never play anything else, but it's definitely up there as a top contender.

[Gurgeh]

Emboldening Bond also has a ten minute duration. Not only does that mean there's no way it will ever run out mid-combat, it makes it a reliable pre-combat buff (improving action economy) and even leaves the possibility of a single instance covering multiple combats in a fast-paced scenario.

[Hael]

The lvl 1 peace domain ability is one of those abilities that is good by itself, but when combined with other things, starts to get super broken. Like the straw that breaks the camels back sorta thing.

So bless obviously is one of those things, but so is the paladin aura or bardic inspirations, etc, etc. So I would be careful with too many stacking save buffs in the same party.

If thats not causing too much of a problem, Peace doesnt really start breaking things until end of tier2, at which point their lvl 6 ability starts to be a serious problem for DMs who have a bunch of PCs who have mastered the ins and outs of 5e combat.. For normal players who don’t really understand positioning, or haven’t really thought about all the possibilities, then its not too bad and will remain as simply strong.

So whether its broken or not, really kinda depends on how others in the party use it and play around it.

[Hytheter]

I don't think it's so good that I'd never play anything else

But of course!

After all, its partner in crime Twilight is right there. :P

[Chaos Jackal]

Many people make the mistake of thinking Emboldening Bond is the strongest feature of the Peace domain. It's not, at least not by itself. But it is indeed a very good feature, and not just because of bless, but because you get an effect that, though somewhat weaker than bless, is still good, takes no concentration and lasts for ten minutes to boot. You get to buff your party regardless of what you're concentrating on, possibly for multiple combats. That's why it's good. Synergizing with other bonuses is icing on the cake.

It's also good because of the other features of Peace. Getting a Disengage+Dash+area heal in a single action is good regardless, and works damn well for a party that tends to stay kinda close-ish for Emboldening Bond. Redirecting damage alongside reaction teleportation is also incredible. And none of those need bless.

You could remove bless entirely from Peace and it would still be in the top 3 domains available.

[Segev]

Many people make the mistake of thinking Emboldening Bond is the strongest feature of the Peace domain. It's not, at least not by itself. But it is indeed a very good feature, and not just because of bless, but because you get an effect that, though somewhat weaker than bless, is still good, takes no concentration and lasts for ten minutes to boot. You get to buff your party regardless of what you're concentrating on, possibly for multiple combats. That's why it's good. Synergizing with other bonuses is icing on the cake.

It's also good because of the other features of Peace. Getting a Disengage+Dash+area heal in a single action is good regardless, and works damn well for a party that tends to stay kinda close-ish for Emboldening Bond. Redirecting damage alongside reaction teleportation is also incredible. And none of those need bless.

You could remove bless entirely from Peace and it would still be in the top 3 domains available.(emphasis added)

Out of curiosity, what would you say the strongest feature of it is, then?

[BoxANT]

Currently at level 5 (w 1 level of peace cleric).

Tier 1 EB is nice but not amazing due to only having two uses (on 2 players), but for hard fights, having it with Bless was a nics boost. I would hardly call it OP or even close.

Now at tier 2, it is stronger (3x3) and stacking it with bless on your dps feels great, but again, there are much stronger abilities. No nearly OP.

So far, my favorite uses for it has been out of combat. Being able to stack it with Guidance is great. Also, very useful for when casting a spell is not appropriate (certain social interactions) but you still want a buff.

I will say, Peace is my favorite domain and makes a solid dip, but I have not found it to be remotely OP in my experience.

[Chaos Jackal]

(emphasis added)

Out of curiosity, what would you say the strongest feature of it is, then?

Protective Bond. Yes, I know that it requires Emboldening Bond, but that's where the part right after, "not by itself", comes in.

You basically get to decide how to allocate enemy damage, meaning you can finally direct damage to that raging barbarian that nobody's attacking, or to the person with warding bond on, or to someone who's resistant/immune to an attack's main or secondary damage, and on top of it you get to give everyone opportunity attack-free tactical movement, both with the same reaction. And there's no limit to that; as long as Emboldening Bond is up, every round all those affected have that option. Honestly, if Emboldening Bond had just the effects of Protective Bond, it would still be incredible.

[Segev]

Protective Bond. Yes, I know that it requires Emboldening Bond, but that's where the part right after, "not by itself", comes in.

You basically get to decide how to allocate enemy damage, meaning you can finally direct damage to that raging barbarian that nobody's attacking, or to the person with warding bond on, or to someone who's resistant/immune to an attack's main or secondary damage, and on top of it you get to give everyone opportunity attack-free tactical movement, both with the same reaction. And there's no limit to that; as long as Emboldening Bond is up, every round all those affected have that option. Honestly, if Emboldening Bond had just the effects of Protective Bond, it would still be incredible.

I can see that. I know that my Pathfinder Vitalist gets a ton of mileage out of redistributing hp around the party.

[stoutstien]

Protective bond is good but still eats action economy. For certain parties you can build around it but they have to be willing to stay in close formation and keep reactions clear. Seems like a fair trade to me. Don't think it's really that bonkers even when you get resistance added to it.

It's strong and could be game changing but doesn't approach the category of broken IMO. For peace clerics to shine the party still needs to be taken damage and rolling dice.

**I'd still voted as the strongest domain in print so far even over Twilight.**

[Kane0]

Yeah it's still a big step ahead of pre-tasha's domains even if you can't cast Bless yourself (someone else still can, unless you mean someone benefitting from Bond can't also benefit from Bless?)

[jojo]

Yes, Peace Domain is OPaF even without Bless. First of all, you can still throw up Guidance once you've burnt through your first level spells. Second, Potent Spellcasting is awesome. Third, creatures can stack those bonuses with things like the Bard's Inspiration die or, other Bless/Guidance Spells. Fourth, Initiative is an Ability Check and acting earlier in combat is a huge bonus.

Now, a brief note, Bless does fall off in usefulness a little bit as things progress through the game, however spells like Spirit Guardians are 3rd level spells that aren't available prior to level 5. If you're using milestones this might not be as big a deal but, the bottom line is that the Peace Domain "comes online" at level 2, generally defined as from the Second Game Session on, whereas you might be ten or more sessions in before hitting level 5, so for a LONG TIME at a very critical point you're just going to be the most amazing support caster since the druid started handing out goodberries to the Wizard's familiar...