Thoughts on a PC picking up a Lizardfolk's Spiked Shield

[PhoenixPhyre]

The Lizardfolk from the MM has the following attack:



Spiked Shield. Melee Weapon Attack: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 5 (1d6 + 2) piercing damage


That they can use alongside their other attacks (Multiattack). Some PCs ran into a group of them, and one PC wants to pick up one of their shields and use it. Now I'm faced with a challenge to create something meaningful but not broken.

Thoughts:

Option 0: Sure, you can pick it up, but it does nothing other than act as a shield. Status quo, but not really interesting and creates some oddities (ie why can lizardfolk use it as a weapon but I can't).

Option A--stat it out as a weapon: 1d6 piercing damage, no particular other features. Eats a regular attack to use (ie no TWF), interferes with dueling fighting style[0].

Option B--it's a pseudo-improvised weapon. That is, no proficiency to attack. However, I'll grant it the Light property so it can be used with TWF. Doesn't interfere with dueling fighting style, because it's not really a weapon. But not particularly good.

Option C--it's a regular light weapon, but any turn you use it, you lose the AC bonus until the start of your next turn. A bit fiddly

Option D--it's not a weapon at all, but when you successfully shove someone (using the regular options there), you also deal 1d6 + STR damage. Quite different from the lizardfolk thing (which is just a straight up attack), but fits the flow of the game while not warping options particularly.

Option E--???

[0] the character in question is a DEX-heavy, SnB character with dueling FS and Sentinel. So interfering with dueling FS and being STR-based isn't great. But I can't see this being a finesse weapon.

[Lord Vukodlak]

Option A:
What the Lizardfolk does with the weapon is due to the lizardfolk not the weapon.

[Catullus64]

My approach would be that by default, it functions as a normal shield; if they want to attack with it, it's an improvised weapon.

BUT I would also decide that the Lizardfolk themselves know a special technique for fighting with the spiked shield. If the PC can convince a great Lizardfolk warrior to train them, or find and study a special manuscript plaque, then they get the best of both worlds: a fully functional shield which can also function as a light weapon for two-weapon fighting, with a d6 of damage.

[Amnestic]

A and D are my preference for options, leaning towards A. Simple, straightforward.

If it started getting widespread use to an uncomfortable degree then maybe I'd take another look at it but I doubt that'd happen.

[Keltest]

Personally i would say it acts as a shield, and can function as a weapon they arent proficient with. They can use it as a weapon when they take the attack action, or slap somebody with it as a bonus action as per dual wielding, but they arent proficient with it and cant become so unless they find a lizardfolk willing to train them.

[Cikomyr2]

I would ask the player to take a feat or a fighting style to allow to attack with the shield and keep the AC

Lizardmen practice that style as part of their culture

[stoutstien]

I tend to use option D for both players and any PC who uses spiked shields. I make it count as heavy armor and needs a str of 15 to use it without disadvantage.

[Leon]

Its a Shield that they can treat as a weapon but lose the AC bonus on turns they do and is treated as being under TWF rules if using another weapon with it or just 1d6+SB if not and attacking at PCs normal str based attack value

[Rukelnikov]

I'd second its a weapon you don't have proficiency in. Since 5e weapon proficiency system is abysmal, you could treat it similar to learning a language, which IIRC takes 250 days of training (personally, I'd make it shorter, like a month of training or so).

The problem is that won't mesh with that players build, unless you allow it to be finesse weapon, which, as you said, doesn't look like one, and also allow it to not count for dueling, and why wouldn't it count?

The shove option sounds like the one which could see play, if that player tends to pick that option every now and then. Its not a huge power up, but its nice and has flavor.

[PhoenixPhyre]

I'd second its a weapon you don't have proficiency in. Since 5e weapon proficiency system is abysmal, you could treat it similar to learning a language, which IIRC takes 250 days of training (personally, I'd make it shorter, like a month of training or so).

The problem is that won't mesh with that players build, unless you allow it to be finesse weapon, which, as you said, doesn't look like one, and also allow it to not count for dueling, and why wouldn't it count?

The shove option sounds like the one which could see play, if that player tends to pick that option every now and then. Its not a huge power up, but its nice and has flavor.

Yeah. that bold is my thinking. It also promotes doing something other than "I attack" every turn, which this character needs.

And the "doesn't mesh with the build" thing is one reason I'm steering away from the other options right now. This campaign is intentionally (and openly) lower magic items than other ones, so I'm more ok with giving other power-ups based on things they find and repurpose.

[Pex]

How I see it.

If the character is proficient with shields he is proficient with this shield as a weapon. It's a spiked shield. That is what does the damage. The character can use it as a weapon, doing 1d6 + ST modifier piercing damage, following all normal rules for using weapons. He can gain the benefit to AC because it is also shield. If he also wants to attack with a "normal" weapon then follow normal two-weapon fighting rules. The spiked shield is not a light weapon and not a finesse weapon. If a player wants to try to game it by saying he uses the spiked shield and a "normal" shield for AC benefits invoke the no stacking rule. Since they both provide a bonus to AC from the same source name, using a shield, they don't stack.

[Psyren]

My approach would be that by default, it functions as a normal shield; if they want to attack with it, it's an improvised weapon.

BUT I would also decide that the Lizardfolk themselves know a special technique for fighting with the spiked shield. If the PC can convince a great Lizardfolk warrior to train them, or find and study a special manuscript plaque, then they get the best of both worlds: a fully functional shield which can also function as a light weapon for two-weapon fighting, with a d6 of damage.

I'd go with this. Improvised weapon until they learn how to use it from a trainer.

[JackPhoenix]

It's a shield that does d6 piercing instead of the normal d4 bludgeoning damage when you use it to attack. You still need to be proficient with improvised weapons if you want to use it effectively, and it's not light, so no TWF without Dual Wielder. 1 extra damage (and different damage type) on average compared to what you can already do is not gamebreaking.

[False God]

How I see it.

If the character is proficient with shields he is proficient with this shield as a weapon. It's a spiked shield. That is what does the damage. The character can use it as a weapon, doing 1d6 + ST modifier piercing damage, following all normal rules for using weapons. He can gain the benefit to AC because it is also shield. If he also wants to attack with a "normal" weapon then follow normal two-weapon fighting rules. The spiked shield is not a light weapon and not a finesse weapon. If a player wants to try to game it by saying he uses the spiked shield and a "normal" shield for AC benefits invoke the no stacking rule. Since they both provide a bonus to AC from the same source name, using a shield, they don't stack.

This is what I'd say.

Even the most favorable (for the player) approach of it basically acting as a weapon AND a shield at the same time will do righteously little for his defense or offense. It will however, probably make him feel really cool.

[stoutstien]

Another advantage of having it based on shove rather than being a weapon attack is it prevents it from being stacked with other mechanics that could make it the standard tactic. It keeps it as a solid alternative rather than a replacement which is what most PC options tend to do sadly.

[KorvinStarmast]

Option A:
What the Lizardfolk does with the weapon is due to the lizardfolk not the weapon. This.

(I didn't say anything about that in play due to not being the DM).

Second recommendation would be "if you spend a feat to take Shield Master we can probably make this work" or words to that effect. Beyond that he's already got a dragon.
Third Recommendation: item D, but 1d4 + Str, as with any improvised weapon.
Disagree with making that a light weapon, based on Zandolit origin

[greenstone]

I use the line, "Monsters rules are not player character rules."

A monster might do 2d8 with a longsword, but if a player character picks up the sword they only do 1d8.

[KittenMagician]

just make it a bit of both. make it a +1 AC shield and let it be a 1d6 weapon. proficiency with shield works for the weapon part

[5eNeedsDarksun]

It does seem like whatever you decide it does (unless it's pretty benign) probably requires a feat. Consider that Shield Master can still function fully as a shield and provide other benefits, notably providing a shove attack as a bonus action. If the player wants to do something similar, then there should be a similar investment.

[jojo]

It's a shield that does d6 piercing instead of the normal d4 bludgeoning damage when you use it to attack. You still need to be proficient with improvised weapons if you want to use it effectively, and it's not light, so no TWF without Dual Wielder. 1 extra damage (and different damage type) on average compared to what you can already do is not gamebreaking.


THIS!

Balance that against the fact that it's never going to be magic meaning it will only ever provide +2 AC instead of +5 and, whoop-dee-freaking-doo...