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Vulsutyr
2022-01-31, 11:09 PM
I'm planning a campaign for a Harry Potter RPG. The PCs are teenage Hogwarts students on break who during the first half of the 20th century will find themselves transported to the world of Narnia during the Witch's long winter. They will find that the world has already been invaded by a modern Earth army who are trying to exploit the world for their purposes. I'd like to figure out how the enemies got there and what they are trying to do, which the PCs must then stop.
Ideas for how the enemies got there
1. One of their navy ships was taken by a magic storm in the Bermuda triangle or near Antarctica. They can't get back that way and no reinforcements can arrive. In this scenario, they can sail up and down the coast in Narnia.
2. A spy acquired the wood of Digory's magic tree and they used it to build a big portal (that's how the wardrobe was made magic in the Narnia books). With this idea, they could in theory bring in unlimited people unless I had its magic "burn out".
Would the White Witch ally with the baddies or oppose them? What are they trying to do? Perhaps they have heard that people from England have come through and they would like to use Narnia to invade? Perhaps they want to use the time skips to built more equipment? So many possibilities... what do you guys think would be cool?

Saintheart
2022-02-01, 01:48 AM
Well, in fictional universe terms, the White Witch has been to our world in precisely the year 1900 - she was teleported there in The Magician's Nephew. However, her magic doesn't work on Earth. The implication is that she more or less destroyed her own world and then spent a long time building up her magic so it would allow her to dominate Narnia instead once she'd moved there.

She's the classic sociopath in that she sees others only as tools to be used or threats to be eliminated. She tried to convert all four of the Pevensies to her servitude before moving to try and kill them all. So one assumes that if a conventional force from Earth shows up, her approach likely will change depending on what she knows of their intentions. If they're a potential challenge to her power, she will exert all her strength to destroy them. If they want to use Narnia as a staging ground for war back on Earth, she may try to manipulate them to gain power or influence on Earth - if the experience of being without magic on Earth hasn't soured her on the whole idea and convinced her to simply entrench herself in Narnia and only rule there.

Wintermoot
2022-02-01, 09:21 AM
Have you watched the tv series The Magicians?

Because that's what it is. Harry Potter (kids in a magic school) go to Narnia (fantasical other realm). However, of course, The Magicians is half serious half spoof and more adult than Harry Potter.

Vulsutyr
2022-02-01, 10:06 AM
Well, in fictional universe terms, the White Witch has been to our world in precisely the year 1900 - she was teleported there in The Magician's Nephew. However, her magic doesn't work on Earth. The implication is that she more or less destroyed her own world and then spent a long time building up her magic so it would allow her to dominate Narnia instead once she'd moved there.

She's the classic sociopath in that she sees others only as tools to be used or threats to be eliminated. She tried to convert all four of the Pevensies to her servitude before moving to try and kill them all. So one assumes that if a conventional force from Earth shows up, her approach likely will change depending on what she knows of their intentions. If they're a potential challenge to her power, she will exert all her strength to destroy them. If they want to use Narnia as a staging ground for war back on Earth, she may try to manipulate them to gain power or influence on Earth - if the experience of being without magic on Earth hasn't soured her on the whole idea and convinced her to simply entrench herself in Narnia and only rule there.

I completely agree with your analysis. I think the Witch would like to eventuallly conquer the other countries of the world, and with this force she might see an oppurtunity to use them for that. I think the enemy army would be concerned only with using Narnia to win the war on Earth at this point, they wouldn't want to try and conquer territory in another world unless they had a really good reason.

Vulsutyr
2022-02-01, 10:08 AM
Have you watched the tv series The Magicians?

Because that's what it is. Harry Potter (kids in a magic school) go to Narnia (fantasical other realm). However, of course, The Magicians is half serious half spoof and more adult than Harry Potter.

I had not heard of it. Hopefully none of my players have either. I think a lot of the fun of this will be the interactions between settings people already know and love, not just a new world I made up myself.

Jay R
2022-02-01, 05:10 PM
Shouldn't be too difficult. The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe took place during WW2, so the long winter is going on. The action just has to take place before Lucy finds the wardrobe. Meanwhile, Grindelwald was active in the Potter universe during WW2.

So assume that some enemy army, using help from Grindelwald or other evil Potterverse wizards, have learned how to travel to Narnia, and realize that time spent there doesn't apply to their mundane world. They are building factories so they can spend years producing a near-infinite number of guns, tanks or whatever, to bring back to their war with no time lost. They have enslaved Narnians to do it.

Pex
2022-02-01, 06:20 PM
The Witch would not support the invading army because it's Her Realm. Also, the invaders have many Sons of Adam and likely Daughters of Eve, so she wants to stop the Prophesy of her doom from happening. However, she doesn't like the Hogwarts students either for the same Prophesy reason. You're looking at a three way war, though the Witch would likely work with the students first since they are stopping the invasion.

To make the politics easier I would suggest setting the campaign during the reign of High King Peter. The invaders would be the Telmarine. The interference of the Hogwarts students would then supposedly be why they failed to conquer Narnia until after Peter, Susan, Edmund, and Lucy left Narnia.

Vulsutyr
2022-02-02, 03:03 PM
Shouldn't be too difficult. The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe took place during WW2, so the long winter is going on. The action just has to take place before Lucy finds the wardrobe. Meanwhile, Grindelwald was active in the Potter universe during WW2.

So assume that some enemy army, using help from Grindelwald or other evil Potterverse wizards, have learned how to travel to Narnia, and realize that time spent there doesn't apply to their mundane world. They are building factories so they can spend years producing a near-infinite number of guns, tanks or whatever, to bring back to their war with no time lost. They have enslaved Narnians to do it.

Excellent point. I think I will have some evil wizards with the muggle army. Not too many because that would be an insane challenge for the teenage PCs, but one or two. Since Grindelwald was a magic-supremacist, I'm going to say that he was not an ally of any Muggle government and the evil wizards with the muggle army are just more nationalistic than they are magic-supremacist so they didn't follow Grindelwald.

Vulsutyr
2022-02-02, 03:06 PM
The Witch would not support the invading army because it's Her Realm. Also, the invaders have many Sons of Adam and likely Daughters of Eve, so she wants to stop the Prophesy of her doom from happening. However, she doesn't like the Hogwarts students either for the same Prophesy reason. You're looking at a three way war, though the Witch would likely work with the students first since they are stopping the invasion.

To make the politics easier I would suggest setting the campaign during the reign of High King Peter. The invaders would be the Telmarine. The interference of the Hogwarts students would then supposedly be why they failed to conquer Narnia until after Peter, Susan, Edmund, and Lucy left Narnia.

I would be fine with the PCs messing up the future of Narnia. I am going to struggle to justify the witch and the army being allies. Perhaps the army would instead ally with the Calormenes, creating a situation where the PCs would be tempted to ask for the witch's aid against the Calormene/Earthling force.

MoiMagnus
2022-02-02, 03:15 PM
First advise: you might want to make sure you know what kind of tone you want for the game. Harry Potter itself is kind of at the middle of some "wonderful magic world" and some "dark and gritty reality", and you can see in the first fantastic beast movies that having both of them at once is not an easy task. If you add Narnia on top of it, which has a very "Good and blind Faith always win", plus your plot which is essentially about colonisation/exploitation, it starts to be quite a mess. So knowing what tone you're aiming at is probably an important point.


Would the White Witch ally with the baddies or oppose them?

It's probably more interesting if there are more than "good vs bad". That's the same reason why in D&D, devils and demons hate each others, and evil NPCs are not always allied to one of the two:
+ it helps creating some more interesting plots
+ it explains why the bad guys don't go all-in against the heroes early on: they have bigger concerns
+ it gives to the heroes some different levels of victory: did you manage to get rid of all the bad guys? or where you forced to compromise and let some of the bad guys get what they want in exchange of successfully getting rid of the main threat?
+ it gives to the NPCs more space to be morally grey, and have redemption and/or betrayal

Martin Greywolf
2022-02-03, 04:55 AM
I recently finished a HP campaign, and I have two words of warning for you.

1) Narnian magic is no match for guns. Even assuming 1900, Jadis would have to pull off some kind of charm on a lot of people to not get destroyed by muggle forces. Even your average infantryman with a rifle will stand a solid chance, let alone a machinegun nest. If she ever gets enough power to nuke the entire world the way she did her home things will change, but as it is, she can't do that.

2) Harry Potter magic, if done as per the books, is insanely broken. Here are some things I managed to pull off during that campaign:


a metric ton of buffs, including invisibility and supersensory charm
potions that let you smell like a bloodhound or give you electroreception ability a la an eel
transfiguring the floor into chlorine trifluoride, a rocket fuel so volatile rocket scientists refuse to work with it
having the opposition being savaged by: baboons, squirrels, bees, spiders etc, courtesy of transfiguration
THE SQUAD - a quartet of polar bears in heavy plate armor called Yorek Byrnisson, Iofur Raknisson, Gunnar Gunnarson and Gunnar Gunnarsonson, not even slightly intelligent, but they didn't have to be on account of being a ton of bear with half a ton of armor
purchasing military surplus Mosin rifles and arming the piertotum locomotor statues with them
getting a genuine Japanese cuisine by chain-apparating to Japan whenever I wanted to
conjuring thermite to get past most obstacles


A mildly creative player will be able to steamroll almost everything in Narnia, and once they realize there is no reason they can't use muggle tech and that stealing military hardware is easy with apparition...

KorvinStarmast
2022-02-03, 11:24 AM
I'm planning a campaign for a Harry Potter RPG. The PCs are teenage Hogwarts students on break who during the first half of the 20th century will find themselves transported to the world of Narnia during the Witch's long winter. Suggestion 1: nuke it from orbit, it's the only way to be sure. :smallbiggrin: (that's me being silly, since I find Harry Potter books/world/magic to be vacuous)

Suggestion 2: make the witch's winter a real life nuclear winter (http://climate.envsci.rutgers.edu/pdf/WiresClimateChangeNW.pdf).

Saintheart
2022-02-03, 09:58 PM
I recently finished a HP campaign, and I have two words of warning for you.

1) Narnian magic is no match for guns. Even assuming 1900, Jadis would have to pull off some kind of charm on a lot of people to not get destroyed by muggle forces. Even your average infantryman with a rifle will stand a solid chance, let alone a machinegun nest. If she ever gets enough power to nuke the entire world the way she did her home things will change, but as it is, she can't do that.

2) Harry Potter magic, if done as per the books, is insanely broken. Here are some things I managed to pull off during that campaign:


a metric ton of buffs, including invisibility and supersensory charm
potions that let you smell like a bloodhound or give you electroreception ability a la an eel
transfiguring the floor into chlorine trifluoride, a rocket fuel so volatile rocket scientists refuse to work with it
having the opposition being savaged by: baboons, squirrels, bees, spiders etc, courtesy of transfiguration
THE SQUAD - a quartet of polar bears in heavy plate armor called Yorek Byrnisson, Iofur Raknisson, Gunnar Gunnarson and Gunnar Gunnarsonson, not even slightly intelligent, but they didn't have to be on account of being a ton of bear with half a ton of armor
purchasing military surplus Mosin rifles and arming the piertotum locomotor statues with them
getting a genuine Japanese cuisine by chain-apparating to Japan whenever I wanted to
conjuring thermite to get past most obstacles


A mildly creative player will be able to steamroll almost everything in Narnia, and once they realize there is no reason they can't use muggle tech and that stealing military hardware is easy with apparition...


One thought might be that just as time doesn't flow the same as it does on Earth, neither does the magic used by wizards when taken to Narnia. Or works radically differently. As the White Witch's magic doesn't work on Earth, neither does an Earth wizard's magic work in Narnia. As for Earth technology, unless the subject's been comprehensively dealt with in the books, you could just fiat it (borrowing from S.M. Stirling's Dies the Fire here) that higher order chemical reactions - like gunpowder, but not simple fire or biological chemical reactions required for food to become energy - don't work in Narnia, and steam pressure just can't build above a certain psi. That helps explain why technology hasn't advanced past sword and spear, bow and arrow for several thousand years or so.

Jay R
2022-02-04, 07:32 PM
As for Earth technology, unless the subject's been comprehensively dealt with in the books, you could just fiat it (borrowing from S.M. Stirling's Dies the Fire here) that higher order chemical reactions - like gunpowder, but not simple fire or biological chemical reactions required for food to become energy - don't work in Narnia, and steam pressure just can't build above a certain psi. That helps explain why technology hasn't advanced past sword and spear, bow and arrow for several thousand years or so.

It was established in Prince Caspian that flashlights (electric torches) do work in Narnia.

Having said that, astronomy is clearly different, as shown in The Voyage of the Dawn Treader, when they traveled to the Uttermost East, and they met a star.

["What do they teach them in these schools?"]

Vulsutyr
2022-02-04, 11:50 PM
I recently finished a HP campaign, and I have two words of warning for you.

1) Narnian magic is no match for guns.

2) Harry Potter magic, if done as per the books, is insanely broken.

Agreed. I am giving Jadis some Harry Potter-style witch abilities. The spells will be thematically appropriate but it is important that she be powerful. I think I will be able to get away with it as long as I don't have her saying the same incantations. I can describe the effects of Protego without saying she cast protego.

Additionally, these players are not metagamers nor do they like to break games. I don't expect to have much of a problem with exploits. Maybe that will change and I'll have to make serious modifications to the enemy strengths. They are also not adult wizards and will not have apparation and other powerful spells, nor will they have arbitrary transfiguration.

Vulsutyr
2022-02-04, 11:53 PM
First advise: you might want to make sure you know what kind of tone you want for the game.


It's probably more interesting if there are more than "good vs bad". That's the same reason why in D&D, devils and demons hate each others, and evil NPCs are not always allied to one of the two

Good advice on the first. I need to consider the witch, the army, and each county to be seperate actors with their own agendas, goals, and reasons to ally with each other.


It was established in Prince Caspian that flashlights (electric torches) do work in Narnia.

Having said that, astronomy is clearly different, as shown in The Voyage of the Dawn Treader, when they traveled to the Uttermost East, and they met a star.

["What do they teach them in these schools?"]

It's true, which is essential for the Earth army to be a powerful enemy force. Point taken Jay R, the solutions are probably all in Plato anyway. :smallwink:

Jay R
2022-02-05, 11:33 AM
A few more thoughts:

The Battle of Britain was fought entirely in the air, because England is not connected to the rest of Europe, and was able to defend its shores. If the army discovers a way to Narnia from their own mainland country, and hears rumors of a magic passage between England and Narnia, they will want to find it to use to invade England.

According to The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe, the Professor's home (and therefore the wardrobe) is "in the heart of the country, ten miles from the nearest railway station and two miles from the nearest post office." If the invaders found it, they could get a pretty large army assembled in England before anybody got word of it.

[This plan wouldn't work, of course. There is no indication, anywhere in the books, that somebody can choose to travel from Narnia to England without somebody who came from England. Caspian went through with Eustace and Jill. Jadis came to England with Digory and Polly, and she didn't come from Narnia anyway. She came from the Wood Between the World, and had never yet been to Narnia (which didn't exist yet). But the invaders don't know that, so they would want to find Lantern Waste.]

Also, there are green and yellow rings buried near where the apple tree was in London, that can be used to travel to the Wood Between the Worlds. Finding them might be the start of your characters' adventures. Or they might be what the invaders need to find in order to invade.

I urge you to re-read The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe and The Magician's Nephew for other possible plot-critical facts. [The other books occur after WW2.] You might also re-read the bits about Grindelwald in Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, since that takes place at the same time.

If your PCs are grandchildren of Polly, or great-nieces and great-nephews of Digory, they might have heard stories about Narnia and the green and yellow rings, and they would be the right age to be at Hogwarts. [They would not have heard of the wardrobe yet; nobody learned of its powers until the end of the Long Winter.]

Finally, the wizards allied with (or from the same land as) the invading army probably attended Durmstrang. And there might be a wizards' underground connected to Beauxbatons (which is, of course, in a conquered country at that time) that could be useful for some subplot.

[And just to add one more connection, a witch used her powers to defend England from a WW2 invasion in Bedknobs and Broomsticks. Even if I didn't intend to use her, I would probably introduce a minor NPC named Eglantine Price, with a cat named Cosmic Creepers. In Harry Potter terms, she's an untrained witch who never went to Hogwarts. And Professor Emelius Browne might be a Squib.]

Steven K
2022-02-07, 05:17 AM
Something no-one's mentioned yet, Aslan and the Emperor over the sea are active powers in the world. They had a plan, which was to be outworked in a matter of years with the arrival of the Pevensie kids. That plan is now in ruins. Do they respond? Direct intervention, subtle manipulations, summoning characters from beyond the world as in the books, they could take any sort of role. They could even be a patron to a Warlock or deity to a Cleric, if you wanted.

And that raises another immediate idea. Tash, the god of the Calormenes . Tash is absolutely a real being. Just as real as Aslan. If Aslan decides to go off script, so does Tash. Does he mobilise the Calormenes and march on Narnia a few years early? Actively intervene as a deity? Empower warlocks? Aid Jadis or the invading armies or even the PCs?

The giants are just one kingdom over, too. Lots of different options.

Martin Greywolf
2022-02-07, 06:51 AM
They are also not adult wizards and will not have apparation and other powerful spells, nor will they have arbitrary transfiguration.

Do keep in mind that object to animal is an OWL level spell. Nobody expects the honey badgers, and honey badgers don't care. Actually, so is the vanishing spell, and a mildly creative use of that will result in minotaurs wondering where their axes have gone.



According to The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe, the Professor's home (and therefore the wardrobe) is "in the heart of the country, ten miles from the nearest railway station and two miles from the nearest post office." If the invaders found it, they could get a pretty large army assembled in England before anybody got word of it.


They really, really couldn't. British army wan't in great shape, but taking on enemy force surrounded by their own territory and logistics, without any railways getting supplies there, with a single chokepoint? They can just surround the area and bombard it with surplus WW1 artillery, the range of which is, cnoveniently, at just below 10 miles.

We should also remember that ICW and Statue of Secrecy are a thing, and an army teleporting into the middle of British Isles will probably provoke some kind of... international ICW intervention. Led by Dumbledore. Grindelwald would probably argue (possibly with use of Imperius) against doing this just on those grounds.

Bottom line is, Narnia is... kind of useless for the WW1 powers, except possibly as a colony, but that would take a lot of time to set up and make profitable (less so tha usual, what with narnia time shift, but that is unreliable), and they have bigger things to worry about.

Jay R
2022-02-07, 10:17 AM
They really, really couldn't. British army wan't in great shape, but taking on enemy force surrounded by their own territory and logistics, without any railways getting supplies there, with a single chokepoint? They can just surround the area and bombard it with surplus WW1 artillery, the range of which is, cnoveniently, at just below 10 miles.

You may be right, but I doubt it. I agree with you that a single force by itself would (eventually) be noticed, found, and defeated. But that’s not how invasions work. The Battle of Britain was already extremely dangerous; adding one more crucial element might turn the tide.

Coordinate the invasion from Narnia with a yet another major air attack, so all the defense forces are busy and (more importantly) looking towards the sea. You probably have a late afternoon in the country to hijack a train for the troops, followed by all night and maybe the next morning to get to a coastal port and secure it by attacking the defenders from the rear. Now you have one beachhead, and you knew in advance when you would have it. The navy lands the real invading force safely, since that port is already secure. Even if you haven’t secured it, the defenses are now pointed inland when the ships land.

It could also be coordinated with the attack foiled by Eglantine Price in Bedknobs and Broomsticks, just to add more color and more complication.

Yes, it’s a single chokepoint – but the British government doesn’t know it exists, and even if they did, they have no idea where. The first step to surrounding a point is knowing that it exists, and the second step is locating it. There is no third step until those are accomplished. Even then, the third step requires not being busy elsewhere.

Also, you are making assumptions based on knowledge that the invaders wouldn’t have yet. A passage to England from Narnia is just a rumor, if that. They don’t know how wide it is, or where it is, or even if they can run a railway from their lands to Narnia to England. Of course, I’m also using information they don’t have. They don’t have a fully planned invasion yet; so far they are just investigating a possible land route to England.

It's true that I didn't say any of this in my earlier post, so there's no reason for you to have considered it. I was not providing a fully-developed invasion plan; I was providing a McGuffin for the game.

[Hilarity ensues when the invaders hijack a train, not knowing it left that morning from Platform 9¾ .]



We should also remember that ICW and Statue of Secrecy are a thing, and an army teleporting into the middle of British Isles will probably provoke some kind of... international ICW intervention. Led by Dumbledore. Grindelwald would probably argue (possibly with use of Imperius) against doing this just on those grounds.

Again, only after it's known. The situation could be similar to Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix. The Ministry would deny that any such invasion is underway, and not listen to the students who know about it.


Bottom line is, Narnia is... kind of useless for the WW1 powers, except possibly as a colony, but that would take a lot of time to set up and make profitable (less so tha usual, what with narnia time shift, but that is unreliable), and they have bigger things to worry about.

A major reason for the war was lebensraum -- room to settle more people. Narnia is valuable to them, totally apart from any connection to England.

"And we'd have gotten away with it if it weren't for those meddling kids."

Psyren
2022-02-15, 05:12 PM
Have you watched the tv series The Magicians?

Because that's what it is. Harry Potter (kids in a magic school) go to Narnia (fantasical other realm). However, of course, The Magicians is half serious half spoof and more adult than Harry Potter.

+1. If you're looking for ideas I would watch this, it's on Netflix.

The school is Brakebills rather than Hogwarts and the whimsical otherworld is Fillory rather than Narnia but it has a unique view on how those ideas could be meshed.