Wizards of the Coast leadership changes

[Psyren]

Two quick news stories, one from today and one from a couple of weeks ago that goes along with it.

Cynthia Williams, formerly a VP from Microsoft's gaming team, has been tapped to take over as CEO of Wizards of the Coast. (https://icv2.com/articles/news/view/50343/new-ceo-hasbro-wizards-coast-digital-gaming) This is following the previous announcement that WotC's current CEO, Chris Cochs, will ascend to becoming CEO of WotC's parent company Hasbro (https://icv2.com/articles/news/view/50109/wizards-coast-president-run-hasbro) at the end of the month, replacing the former CEO of Hasbro who passed away last October. This promotion isn't too surprising, as WotC's tabletop and videogames are outperforming Hasbro's other product lines such as their toy business (https://icv2.com/articles/news/view/47698/wotc-makes-more-money-hasbros-toy-business) by a wide margin.

Chris' ascension has been attributed in large part to Magic The Gathering's success through 2021 (https://icv2.com/articles/news/view/49617/magic-sales-beat-2020-numbers-three-quarters), however there are implications for D&D as well - with both Chris and Cynthia having strong video gaming backgrounds, and WotC's 2020 commitment to greatly expanding their digital offerings for both product lines ("the future of D&D is digital" (https://www.geeknative.com/71349/wizards-of-the-coast-the-future-of-dd-is-digital/)) it's reasonable for us to expect even more D&D video games, tv shows and movies to come down the pipeline. (And - fingers crossed - even more digital tools for playing D&D itself! D&D gamepass maybe? :smallbiggrin:)

Anyway, joking aside - I'm optimistic for D&D's future with these changes, especially if some of the digital offerings like BG3 take off and continue to introduce newcomers to the hobby.

[EggKookoo]

Clearly Williams is a plant to set up Microsoft's eventual acquisition of Hasbro.

[KorvinStarmast]

Grats to them both on their professional advancement (it's a cut throat world out there when you get to that level) but here's a nagging concern: D&D becomes more video gamey as a result. :smallfrown: (Hopefully not)

Then again, BG 3 is a pretty decent little adventure, though I stopped playing during the beta due to some RL things. I think I'll get back to that as my next side project.

[Easy e]

D&D becomes more video gamey as a result. :smallfrown: (Hopefully not)


Loot boxes and DLC for everyone!

[MoiMagnus]

Loot boxes and DLC for everyone!

New D&D class: Planeswalker. You get access to a 60 MtG cards deck (standard format) that you have to use to cast spells.

[Amnestic]

New D&D class: Planeswalker. You get access to a 60 MtG cards deck (standard format) that you have to use to cast spells.

Worked for the Crusader back in 3.5 :D

[Scots Dragon]

New D&D class: Planeswalker. You get access to a 60 MtG cards deck (standard format) that you have to use to cast spells.

Given how powerful you can make a deck, this becomes the most popular class.

[Psyren]

Then again, BG 3 is a pretty decent little adventure, though I stopped playing during the beta due to some RL things. I think I'll get back to that as my next side project.

It's still in early access (and limited to PHB subclasses to boot) so I'm happy to wait.


Clearly Williams is a plant to set up Microsoft's eventual acquisition of Hasbro.


Loot boxes and DLC for everyone!

Don't make me cry :smallfrown:

[PhantomSoul]

Clearly Williams is a plant to set up Microsoft's eventual acquisition of Hasbro.

Or just to turn D&D into something more like *shudders* a Microsoft product

I think I just gagged.

[kore]

Clearly Williams is a plant to set up Microsoft's eventual acquisition of Hasbro.

You may or may not be joking but that's a possibility.

I've seen it done the other way around where an executive of a smaller firm is hired as an executive for a larger, competing firm. The idea being that they have inside knowledge that would allow them to work out an acquisition the larger firm had been unable to broker. Let's just say that that didn't work out for her and she "left" the position at the larger firm 6 months after getting the job.

[False God]

Given how powerful you can make a deck, this becomes the most popular class.

But you still have to buy the best spells on the 2rd-party market for huge prices, or gamble on random packs.

[EggKookoo]

You may or may not be joking but that's a possibility.

I've seen it done the other way around where an executive of a smaller firm is hired as an executive for a larger, competing firm. The idea being that they have inside knowledge that would allow them to work out an acquisition the larger firm had been unable to broker. Let's just say that that didn't work out for her and she "left" the position at the larger firm 6 months after getting the job.

In 2019, Mike Ybarra left Microsoft to become an executive at Activision/Blizzard. Just last week Microsoft announced it had purchased Activision/Blizzard, with Ybarra remaining and answering to Phil Spencer at MS. Many suspected Ybarra came over to A/B to prime the acquisition.

I used blue text only because I have no specific reason to think this will happen with Hasbro, but I certainly believe it could.

[Psyren]

But you still have to buy the best spells on the 2rd-party market for huge prices, or gamble on random packs.

"Crap, another feather fall? This totally sucks!" (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0049.html)

[KorvinStarmast]

In 2019, Mike Ybarra left Microsoft to become an executive at Activision/Blizzard. Just last week Microsoft announced it had purchased Activision/Blizzard, with Ybarra remaining and answering to Phil Spencer at MS. Many suspected Ybarra came over to A/B to prime the acquisition. I think I just threw up in my mouth. Two reasons.
1. MS buys my favorite game company. :smallmad:
2. My son suggested I buy some blizz/activision stock back in December, since it was down from its usual average (in his opinion it was due to Blizz personnel / HR issues and morale problems) and I failed to do so. :smallfurious: Stupid me. Could have made a bit of side money.

[EggKookoo]

I think I just threw up in my mouth. Two reasons.
1. MS buys my favorite game company. :smallmad:
2. My son suggested I buy some blizz/activision stock back in December, since it was down from its usual average (in his opinion it was due to Blizz personnel / HR issues and morale problems) and I failed to do so. :smallfurious: Stupid me. Could have made a bit of side money.


While it's tempting to hate on MS, A/B has been placed in the care of the X-Box team/group. The general consensus is those guys have a really good track record of handling purchaed content. Blizzard should do well in its new home, if they can get rid of their current CEO (Bobby Kotick, who is rumored to be leaving once the transition finalizes).
I feel your pain.

[PhantomSoul]

While it's tempting to hate on MS,


They do make it easy!

[Keravath]

Grats to them both on their professional advancement (it's a cut throat world out there when you get to that level) but here's a nagging concern: D&D becomes more video gamey as a result. :smallfrown: (Hopefully not)

Then again, BG 3 is a pretty decent little adventure, though I stopped playing during the beta due to some RL things. I think I'll get back to that as my next side project.

I'm still waiting for BG3 to actually release ... it is still in "Early Access" almost a year and a half after it was "released". I just can't really be bothered using valuable time for a game that isn't "finished".

[Amnestic]

While it's tempting to hate on MS, A/B has been placed in the care of the X-Box team/group. The general consensus is those guys have a really good track record of handling purchaed content. Blizzard should do well in its new home, if they can get rid of their current CEO (Bobby Kotick, who is rumored to be leaving once the transition finalizes).


Important to remember that the deal, if nothing changes, isn't going to be finalised until 2023 - and there's decent reason (including Acti-Blizz filing false papers re: strike action at Raven) to believe that the acquisition will face legal bumps/delays (or even be denied entirely).

MS have said they're buying ABK, that doesn't mean they'll be allowed to, weird as that may seem.

[Jurai]

New D&D class: Planeswalker. You get access to a 60 MtG cards deck (standard format) that you have to use to cast spells.

Man, why's it gotta be standard? Rotating formats are such a bother, especially if the campaign goes on for more than a year, since rotation would fry builds entirely. Make it Commander, and you've got a deal.

[Spiritchaser]

Man, why's it gotta be standard? Rotating formats are such a bother, especially if the campaign goes on for more than a year, since rotation would fry builds entirely. Make it Commander, and you've got a deal.

They’ll choose alchemy. Digital only to help shift the game in that direction, and they can regularly revise cards to change the meta, forcing optimizers to continually spend more and more money.

[Xervous]

They’ll choose alchemy. Digital only to help shift the game in that direction, and they can regularly revise cards to change the meta, forcing optimizers to continually spend more and more money.

But what happens if I right click each card as I draw it, then go use them on Foundry?

[Brookshw]

My concern is that this may further push things towards subscription/licensing models, possibly with subscription exclusive content. I don't mind MS, but I wouldn't like any significant changes to the product ecosystem for D&D.

[Telok]

My concern is that this may further push things towards subscription/licensing models, possibly with subscription exclusive content. I don't mind MS, but I wouldn't like any significant changes to the product ecosystem for D&D.

I mind MS. I have to deal with thier IDE deleting the contents of application critical files without warning, thier terrible systems & code documentation, and the results on my relative's computers of not being able to control what the computer is doing.

Honestly though other than a push towards reliance on online tools and a cloud based subscription where you rent the right to use the product instead of owning a copy, probably nothing really changes.

[PhantomSoul]

I mind MS. I have to deal with thier IDE deleting the contents of application critical files without warning, thier terrible systems & code documentation, and the results on my relative's computers of not being able to control what the computer is doing.

Honestly though other than a push towards reliance on online tools and a cloud based subscription where you rent the right to use the product instead of owning a copy, probably nothing really changes.

THIS. I have no kind words for MS anymore.

[EggKookoo]

I don't mind MS in the context of gaming. I mean so far, they let the game devs do what they do best and stick to messing up Office stuff.

I think it's pretty inevitable that Future D&D will be almost entirely a subscription-based thing (MS or otherwise). I think that by 2025 it'll all be some variation on DnDBeyond. I could rage against that particular machine or decide that I'm going to live with it -- and there are a lot of perks to consider.

[KorvinStarmast]

THIS. I have no kind words for MS anymore. I have been heard to mutter, at least once a month ever since their attack on Netscape,
BG must die.
And I am not referring to Baldur's Gate. :smallfurious:

[Wildstag]

Man, why's it gotta be standard? Rotating formats are such a bother, especially if the campaign goes on for more than a year, since rotation would fry builds entirely. Make it Commander, and you've got a deal.

Or better yet, make it unlimited. I need my Umbral-Mantle/Red-Sun's-Zenith mana ramp to just instantly delete Ao from Faerun.

[Psyren]

I don't mind MS in the context of gaming. I mean so far, they let the game devs do what they do best and stick to messing up Office stuff.

I think it's pretty inevitable that Future D&D will be almost entirely a subscription-based thing (MS or otherwise). I think that by 2025 it'll all be some variation on DnDBeyond. I could rage against that particular machine or decide that I'm going to live with it -- and there are a lot of perks to consider.

This. And there's a symbiotic relationship here - their biggest workhorse is still MTG, and they'll need FLGS to keep selling cardboard and providing convenient spaces for those games to happen. And since FLGS will be a going concern, you might as well keep printing physical D&D to put on the shelves there too and satisfy that market.

No matter how much of D&D they digitize there will always be some portion of the audience who prefers the dead tree editions, and many who even find them more practical - particularly folks without reliable internet like deployed military servicemembers or even prisoners. When these groups play D&D, this almost always results in feel-good stories and positive press for the game that they would be giving up if they switched to digital offerings wholesale.

[PhantomSoul]

I think that by 2025 it'll all be some variation on DnDBeyond. I could rage against that particular machine or decide that I'm going to live with it -- and there are a lot of perks to consider.

The biggest perk for me is saving money (by not buying anything xD)

[Brookshw]

No matter how much of D&D they digitize there will always be some portion of the audience who prefers the dead tree editions, and many who even find them more practical - particularly folks without reliable internet like deployed military servicemembers or even prisoners. When these groups play D&D, this almost always results in feel-good stories and positive press for the game that they would be giving up if they switched to digital offerings wholesale.

Depends on the resale of products vs. initial purchase, there's certainly a point where the licensing model overtakes physical sales once the market has a surplus of 2nd hand products; good will doesn't automatically mean sales drives, especially if the market is flush with the 2nd hand option, or if you can develop good will through other methods comparable with your sales strategy. There's also shifts in costs for new edition development if your market is less disturbed by the 2nd hand sales. That's before considering how you can maximize benefits by a hybrid model of some print and subscription exclusive options.

I say this, but I doubt they'd drop print, just aware they might go in that direction.

[EggKookoo]

I say this, but I doubt they'd drop print, just aware they might go in that direction.

I would not be shocked if 5.5 did not provide print versions of anything not OGL. And even the OGL stuff only supplied as pretty PDFs that you print yourself. I'm not going to go so far as to predict that's what they'll do, but I think there's a pretty good chance of it.

[False God]

Or better yet, make it unlimited. I need my Umbral-Mantle/Red-Sun's-Zenith mana ramp to just instantly delete Ao from Faerun.

Honestly including the different formats would make for an interesting spellcaster build.

"You can only ever have 1 of any spell."
"You can only have X spells or less in your deck."
"Your spells can only come from XYZ sources."
"All your spells must be uncommons or less."

[MoiMagnus]

Man, why's it gotta be standard? Rotating formats are such a bother, especially if the campaign goes on for more than a year, since rotation would fry builds entirely. Make it Commander, and you've got a deal.

Fair enough. Though the initial point was to integrate the idea of DLC/lootbox, so the goal is to have players continuously spending money for new stuff.

Maybe it should be scelled instead?
At level 1 you open 6(?) boosters to make a 40(?) cards deck, and you open 1 new booster per level up.

(And if you don't like the cards you have, you can reroll your character, though you need to buy new booster packs for that. Using repacked boosters is not allowed in AL.)

[Keravath]

I don't mind MS in the context of gaming. I mean so far, they let the game devs do what they do best and stick to messing up Office stuff.

I think it's pretty inevitable that Future D&D will be almost entirely a subscription-based thing (MS or otherwise). I think that by 2025 it'll all be some variation on DnDBeyond. I could rage against that particular machine or decide that I'm going to live with it -- and there are a lot of perks to consider.

I wouldn't mind a subscription model as long as some consolidation goes along with it. Buying hardcover content, Roll20 content and D&D Beyond content that all overlap is frustrating and really shouldn't be necessary. On top of that, I think there are something like six different VTTs that offer various features (some desirable and some not) and some of which offer official content (Roll20, Fantasy Grounds etc).

I'd love a subscription that would get me access to the content, a character builder and a VTT all officially supported, properly funded, and integrated rather than the hodge podge we currently have.

[Keravath]

I would not be shocked if 5.5 did not provide print versions of anything not OGL. And even the OGL stuff only supplied as pretty PDFs that you print yourself. I'm not going to go so far as to predict that's what they'll do, but I think there's a pretty good chance of it.

I think that would depend on how much of a profit stream the published books are. If people buy the rules/adventures in hard covers (and I think a lot do) then I don't see them dropping that distribution channel as long as it is profitable.

[EggKookoo]

I think that would depend on how much of a profit stream the published books are. If people buy the rules/adventures in hard covers (and I think a lot do) then I don't see them dropping that distribution channel as long as it is profitable.

Right, I know. I'm not staking out a hill or anything, just trying to predict things. Let me ask you, though, if 5.5 only offered OGL content in print/printable format, like the basic rules, a bunch of monsters, and some other things, all enough to get you going on a campaign, would you engage? Would you download those PDFs, print out what you want for yourself (because you're a physical-print afficionado), get some friends together, and play? Assuming you like the new version at all, that is.

Now imagine they go the DnDBeyond route. To participate as a player, you have to make an account, but it's free. You can create some number of PCs on the system, all free. And of course that same OGL content is available so you can quickly look stuff up. But they also offer paid subs for those who want the rest of the content. Maybe there are tiers, where you get some things (like all of the DMG) wrapped in. Maybe you have to purchase some content outright. But you get unlimited PCs, and when you create a "campaign" and invite someone to join it, that player gets access to everything you have for any PCs made in your campaign. So one person basically ponies up the paid subscription, and maybe has an out-of-game agreement where the players chip in to cover it. Would you play in a game like that, as a player, if it didn't cost you directly?

I think a lot of people would.

[PhoenixPhyre]

Strong no from me. Vendor lock-in is obnoxious. And that's coming from someone who pays for a full sub on D&D Beyond.

Especially since that would make integration with other services annoying. And probably kill the 3rd party VTT support.

I'd not buy into 5.5 at all of that happened.

[Lucas Yew]

Honestly though other than a push towards reliance on online tools and a cloud based subscription where you rent the right to use the product instead of owning a copy, probably nothing really changes.

Subscription. Rent other than ownage. My RAGE intensifies...

[Scots Dragon]

Most of the other major RPGs are releasing physical print books still so it would be really silly for Wizards of the Coast to abandon that.

[Atranen]

Now imagine they go the DnDBeyond route. To participate as a player, you have to make an account, but it's free. You can create some number of PCs on the system, all free. And of course that same OGL content is available so you can quickly look stuff up. But they also offer paid subs for those who want the rest of the content. Maybe there are tiers, where you get some things (like all of the DMG) wrapped in. Maybe you have to purchase some content outright. But you get unlimited PCs, and when you create a "campaign" and invite someone to join it, that player gets access to everything you have for any PCs made in your campaign. So one person basically ponies up the paid subscription, and maybe has an out-of-game agreement where the players chip in to cover it. Would you play in a game like that, as a player, if it didn't cost you directly?

I have no interest in online games, and I dislike in person games where everyone is at their computer the whole time. I think this would be a pretty silly way to alienate tons of long time players, and push them towards Pathfinder or whatever.

I could see them do this and keep selling full versions of print books though.

[EggKookoo]

I think WotC has to evaluate it. Do some research and find the answers to some questions.

How many current D&D players do not use digital sources, such as DnDBeyond, as a percentage of overall players?

Of those, how many simply would not play a 5.5 (or whatever) that did not provide print books for anything other than OGL stuff, like the Starter Kit? Not including an estimate of those who initially would resist it, but probably come around.

If most of the resistance to digital is from older gamers, is it worth it to cater to them at the expense of catering to younger players?

Can WotC gain cultural prestige by branding themselves eco-friendly by providing a paperless product? How many potential (young) new D&D players can be enticed to try out the game because it's billed as eco-friendly? Can they position competitors as less eco-friendly? (If you think this is not a valid branding approach, I suggest you look up the prevalence of "ESG" in big corporations today.)

Given the above, what are the profit implications of abandoning print costs in exchange for a digital subscription model? Print is expensive! There are also implications of not worrying about fighting for shelf space in stores.

What variations of this would result in the most success? For example, DnDBeyond is free if you just want to make PCs with the Basic Rules (OGL) stuff. You only need to pay for a sub if you want to effectively run campaigns. Could that be tuned in some way?

Again, not really trying to find a hill to die on here, but I do see trends. It ultimately would depend on the answers to the above questions.

As a Gen-X grognard, I see myself being gradually removed from the spotlight in terms of what most companies view as a valid market. I've become too discerning with my money, and too resistant to marketing BS. There are fresher, younger, more gullible wallets out there. I would not be surprised if D&D even did away with specific core books as a concept. No more DMG, no more MM or PHB. There's just content, in digital form, segregated by subscription tier.

[Solusek]

("the future of D&D is digital" (https://www.geeknative.com/71349/wizards-of-the-coast-the-future-of-dd-is-digital/))

Flashbacks to the 4e announcement in 2007.

[Witty Username]

[COLOR="#0000FF"]Fair enough. Though the initial point was to integrate the idea of DLC/lootbox, so the goal is to have players continuously spending money for new stuff.


Isn't that just supplement books? There are even people complaining that 5e doesn't get enough new content, so them doing more "DLC" makes some amount of sense from a consumer friendliness standpoint.

[Tanarii]

Right, I know. I'm not staking out a hill or anything, just trying to predict things. Let me ask you, though, if 5.5 only offered OGL content in print/printable format, like the basic rules, a bunch of monsters, and some other things, all enough to get you going on a campaign, would you engage? Would you download those PDFs, print out what you want for yourself (because you're a physical-print afficionado), get some friends together, and play? Assuming you like the new version at all, that is.
No. I want large hardcover books that have good binding for my TTRPGs. Because I continue to use them for a long time.

I'm still irritated by how poor the binding was in the Orange Spine 8th print AD&D Dungeon Master's Guide. It might as well have been the 2e Monstrous Compendium, a binder with loose leaf pages that came right out. :smallamused:

[Kurt Kurageous]

No. I want large hardcover books that have good binding for my TTRPGs. Because I continue to use them for a long time.

I'm still irritated by how poor the binding was in the Orange Spine 8th print AD&D Dungeon Master's Guide. It might as well have been the 2e Monstrous Compendium, a binder with loose leaf pages that came right out. :smallamused:

I've just given up and put almost every one of my books in a spiral at Office Depot/Max. It's not expensive, and the durability is way way higher. AND you can open to one page at a time and lay it on the table.

[Tanarii]

I've just given up and put almost every one of my books in a spiral at Office Depot/Max. It's not expensive, and the durability is way way higher. AND you can open to one page at a time and lay it on the table.
If I was doing that, I could see wanting a PDF. Especially if I was willing to do it in black and white. Getting the PDF and getting it printed and hole punched at a print store would probably cost a lot less than a current hardbound, provided WotC was reasonable on their ODF copy price. Especially if willing to settle for b&w instead of color.

[EggKookoo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bR0WP02w68w

Seemed appropriate.

[loki_ragnarock]

Strong no from me. Vendor lock-in is obnoxious. And that's coming from someone who pays for a full sub on D&D Beyond.

Especially since that would make integration with other services annoying. And probably kill the 3rd party VTT support.

I'd not buy into 5.5 at all of that happened.

You and me both.

I'm sure they'll make up for it with other customers, but that's the point where I bow out. I read an article that car companies were going to do the same thing; sell you a car and charge a monthly fee for features like heated seats and power windows. I'd never seen a more powerful advocate for public transit than the idea that you won't even actually own your car.

I need a car to go to work, for now. I don't need D&D to have fun, and if they look to lock it down that thoroughly I'll find my fun elsewhere.

[Tanarii]

Seemed appropriate.
The problem with the idea of a D&D movie is it doesn't have a base setting, and it doesn't have a story, or even a meta-plot like Warcraft. None of that lends to a good movie.

Now if they focus on D&D related stories, which are often only tangentially related to the actual game of D&D but would still accomplish the goal of brand awareness, it could work. If, for once, it wasn't a pile of hot steaming turd. Dragonlance is a traditional path to go down, but Drittz would be a good pick too. (Personal feelings about the latter aside.)

[Pildion]

both Chris and Cynthia having strong video gaming backgrounds

Oh goodie, because that's what we need more of in D&D, more video game influence =(
Half the people I play with in AL believe they are playing a pen and paper MMO... Humorously though, I really would like to see more video games like BG, Pathfinder, PoE. But not at the cost of real D&D getting even more video game like itself. I guess hope for the best.

[PhoenixPhyre]

I need a car to go to work, for now. I don't need D&D to have fun, and if they look to lock it down that thoroughly I'll find my fun elsewhere.

In my case, I'd just stick with 5.0e. Eventually I'd drift away as (if!) the playerbase dwindled.

WotC is already on thin ice with me--I'm likely to not buy the Monsters of the Multiverse even when it comes out as a separate book. Or at least will delay and possibly pick it up secondhand. Which will be the first non-setting, non-adventure book I haven't bought on release day (or very soon thereafter). In fact, I've bought all the main-line books twice (physical and D&D beyond) except Fizban's, which I only bought digitally. My current total spend into D&D 5e is...large. Going to a subscription model would mean that ends. I might still buy 3rd party stuff, but no more 1st party stuff.

[Xervous]

Ripping off parts of the LEGO Movie and playing up various timeless tropes would yield a solid D&D movie that gets a wider audience.

It’s a story about kids playing, mingling the perspectives of the characters and those of the 12-16 year old players. Some scenes capture the chaos of a cat jumping on the table, pizza arriving, or other classic events that are relatable and comedic.

There’s a few different options for building towards a feel good ending. One being the classic shy main character who, through engaging in D&D, overcomes his stage fright. Layer on one or both parents questioning the worth of D&D as a hobby, a funny moment of contrast when the kid brings up his Dad’s framed photo of attending a sporting event painted in team colors, and the parents changing their opinion when they realize the kid has friends and isn’t super shy anymore.

Slip in an early scene where one kid is amazed that you can do anything, unlike in a video game. Add the NPC whose name is quickly made fun of and replaced by the players.

We don’t need another brooding fantasy epic that WotC won’t get a good script for. We need a lighter hearted, self aware portrayal of the delights of D&D.

[Tanarii]

Sounds like they need to get with Trey and make a South Park episode. :smallamused:

[loki_ragnarock]

Sounds like they need to get with Trey and make a South Park episode. :smallamused:

Nah.

They're trying to target young people. South Park is clearly for the olds.

[Psyren]

I think Legend of Vox Machina is the closest thing we've got to a trial run for a real "D&D movie," so if you want that, give it a watch.

[False God]

Nah.

They're trying to target young people. South Park is clearly for the olds.

Besides I'm fairly certain they already did, and made a video game.

[borg286]

I suspect they may go the licensing route and fund some spinoff video games, books, board games, similar to how Warhammer is more of an IP company than anything else. They can shift their focus on what is more popular now and ignore the D&D Barbies that didn't do well.

I would view such a move as a cash grab on it current popularity. We'll see the current userbase that is learning to embrace imagination but still distracted by new shiney things spend their money on the video game(s) then move on to other things. Whereas the old grognards here are left behind as being a less profitable group to target. And it is true. The grognards that demanded we return to the old ways are fighting for that nostalgia and fun of D&D 3.5, and there is something magical about a DM explaining how your crit just split the orc's head in 2. However D&D must evolve and strike a balance between being an arms race for the optimizers and burning through your player base with splat books. WotC is going the licensing route and will go full throttle on the arms race. The problem is that they won't be able to distinguish adoption numbers between die-hard D&D fans and those that flit between whatever game is popular, and it happens to be popular due to critical role.

[Psyren]

I suspect they may go the licensing route and fund some spinoff video games, books, board games, similar to how Warhammer is more of an IP company than anything else. They can shift their focus on what is more popular now and ignore the D&D Barbies that didn't do well.

I would view such a move as a cash grab on it current popularity. We'll see the current userbase that is learning to embrace imagination but still distracted by new shiney things spend their money on the video game(s) then move on to other things. Whereas the old grognards here are left behind as being a less profitable group to target. And it is true. The grognards that demanded we return to the old ways are fighting for that nostalgia and fun of D&D 3.5, and there is something magical about a DM explaining how your crit just split the orc's head in 2. However D&D must evolve and strike a balance between being an arms race for the optimizers and burning through your player base with splat books. WotC is going the licensing route and will go full throttle on the arms race. The problem is that they won't be able to distinguish adoption numbers between die-hard D&D fans and those that flit between whatever game is popular, and it happens to be popular due to critical role.

Being an "IP company" is a big part of Warhammer's business, but according to their financials (https://investor.games-workshop.com/annual-reports-and-half-year-results/), the bulk of their profits still come from the physical miniatures/hobby stores side ("design to manufacture"). The licensing stuff is profitable on its own, but its value stems even moreso from being a gateway to the more traditional hobby.

I imagine D&D works a similar way, with D&D valuable both in its own right and as a gateway to something even more profitable (Magic). The more people they get to come down to a physical FLGS to play Adventurer's League, preferably with their kids in tow, the more those people will get to see a bunch of neighboring tables doing flashy duels and want to give that a try.

[137beth]

Loot boxes and DLC for everyone!

They already have DLC: they're called supplements.

[Telok]

I think Legend of Vox Machina is the closest thing we've got to a trial run for a real "D&D movie," so if you want that, give it a watch.

I'll try to dig up a like to the d&d style vincent price movie. Have it on dvd but don't recall the name right now. Think it referenced e.a. poe.

[Tanarii]

I suspect they may go the licensing route and fund some spinoff video games, books, board games, similar to how Warhammer is more of an IP company than anything else. They can shift their focus on what is more popular now and ignore the D&D Barbies that didn't do well.

I would view such a move as a cash grab on it current popularity. We'll see the current userbase that is learning to embrace imagination but still distracted by new shiney things spend their money on the video game(s) then move on to other things. Whereas the old grognards here are left behind as being a less profitable group to target. And it is true. The grognards that demanded we return to the old ways are fighting for that nostalgia and fun of D&D 3.5, and there is something magical about a DM explaining how your crit just split the orc's head in 2. However D&D must evolve and strike a balance between being an arms race for the optimizers and burning through your player base with splat books. WotC is going the licensing route and will go full throttle on the arms race. The problem is that they won't be able to distinguish adoption numbers between die-hard D&D fans and those that flit between whatever game is popular, and it happens to be popular due to critical role.While trying to drum up new business is by definition a 'cash grab', it's expanding into new space.

There's a limited amount of time anyone can get together with multiple friends (or even strangers at a game store nor as part of a mailing list) and play a TTRPG. Virtual tables increase that amount of available time, but that's not for everyone. But video games in particular can be designed for solo play. While that can (and will) eat into time hey might have spent in a group for some number of people, for others it's time currently spent on non-WotC licensed solo video games. And a much larger number of people that don't get together for a TTRPG experience at all that they can tap into.

What's irritating to a grognard like me is when it results in lower development for print products, although I don't want too many splats anyway and I've been disappointed in all the recent ones, so I can't see that being an issue for me.

[borg286]

While trying to drum up new business is by definition a 'cash grab', it's expanding into new space.

There's a limited amount of time anyone can get together with multiple friends (or even strangers at a game store nor as part of a mailing list) and play a TTRPG. Virtual tables increase that amount of available time, but that's not for everyone. But video games in particular can be designed for solo play. While that can (and will) eat into time hey might have spent in a group for some number of people, for others it's time currently spent on non-WotC licensed solo video games. And a much larger number of people that don't get together for a TTRPG experience at all that they can tap into.

What's irritating to a grognard like me is when it results in lower development for print products, although I don't want too many splats anyway and I've been disappointed in all the recent ones, so I can't see that being an issue for me.

I think a better term that I could have used was a cash out. A similar thing happens with tabletop RPGs where they release new content that is so much better than the last that players rush to buy it and "get ahead." Do then frequently enough and you burn through your userbase. It is for this reason that WotC has released content at such a slower pace than it did with 4e. With a huge surge in new players that likely don't have the strong ties to the franchise as we do makes for a tempting target. My fear is that they will chase after adoption numbers and push the arms race to milk the userbase for all they have thus driving these customers away when they realize it became a pay to win pump and dump, then dump the product. Subsequent leadership will need to follow up and try to reestablish user trust with a much older population.
I don't fault them for cashing out like this because it is a cut-throat world out there and they need to differentiate themselves to remain relevant. They need to expand because everybody else is and those that don't are abandoned.

My preference is collaborating with numerous VTT groups to make IP access well integrated. A buy once platform would go a long way.

[PhoenixPhyre]

My preference is collaborating with numerous VTT groups to make IP access well integrated. A buy once platform would go a long way.

I'd love a clearinghouse/official converter between (some standardized format) and all the major VTT formats. It could check for licenses (you'd register licenses with it via, say, D&D Beyond or whatever) and then slurp up all the creatures, feats, etc you have access to and dump out the one for your VTT via a plugin. Ideally the format would be open so 3rd party publishers could register their works (and license keys). Basically a "one-stop-shop" for all your VTT needs.

If it had a way to upload homebrew in a sane format (non-horrible JSON for instance), homebrew creation engines could do that and let you upload it to your clearinghouse account for use without hand-entering it into your VTT's format.

[False God]

What's irritating to a grognard like me is when it results in lower development for print products, although I don't want too many splats anyway and I've been disappointed in all the recent ones, so I can't see that being an issue for me.

What's irritating for me as a gamer, is that they often do games poorly. 3PP d20-based games seem to do quite well (most western RPGs and MMOs are based on the fundamental concepts D&D founded), but explicitly D&D-based games are more often than not complete and utter trash.

I don't fundamentally understand how they fail SO HARD at making even a decent video game. I mean honestly the last decent explicitly D&D game I recall is NWN (2 was okay) but this is more on the fact that BioWare was totally amazing (excepting Chris Avalone) than Hasbro/WotC having their heads screwed on properly.

This isn't unique to WotC though, a lot of TTRPGs that should be able to be translated into solid video games(because they have solid lore and sound mechanics to draw from) rarely become good games.

[Scots Dragon]

I don't fundamentally understand how they fail SO HARD at making even a decent video game. I mean honestly the last decent explicitly D&D game I recall is NWN (2 was okay) but this is more on the fact that BioWare was totally amazing (excepting Chris Avalone) than Hasbro/WotC having their heads screwed on properly.

Chris Avellone is Obsidian.

[RedMage125]

Or just to turn D&D into something more like *shudders* a Microsoft product

I think I just gagged.

How will they make a pen and paper RPG crash every 10 minutes?

[PhantomSoul]

How will they make a pen and paper RPG crash every 10 minutes?

If anyone's up to the job, it's Microsoft!

[Psyren]

What's irritating for me as a gamer, is that they often do games poorly. 3PP d20-based games seem to do quite well (most western RPGs and MMOs are based on the fundamental concepts D&D founded), but explicitly D&D-based games are more often than not complete and utter trash.

I don't fundamentally understand how they fail SO HARD at making even a decent video game. I mean honestly the last decent explicitly D&D game I recall is NWN (2 was okay) but this is more on the fact that BioWare was totally amazing (excepting Chris Avalone) than Hasbro/WotC having their heads screwed on properly.

This isn't unique to WotC though, a lot of TTRPGs that should be able to be translated into solid video games(because they have solid lore and sound mechanics to draw from) rarely become good games.

BG3 is being worked on by Larian (the Divinity OS2 people) which I have very high hopes for. Both their writing and CRPG design are on point.

[Amnestic]

I don't fundamentally understand how they fail SO HARD at making even a decent video game. I mean honestly the last decent explicitly D&D game I recall is NWN (2 was okay) but this is more on the fact that BioWare was totally amazing (excepting Chris Avalone) than Hasbro/WotC having their heads screwed on properly.


I'm not sure I agree on them consistently failing. They've not made that many but going in reverse chronological order from what I've played.
Dark Alliance (most recent) was decidedly mid-to-bad, no argument there. Complete faceplant.
Baldur's Gate 3 is still in development (new patch soon™) but so far has the makings of being excellent. Early access is early access but DOS2 was brilliant and they're showing no signs of doing worse; if anything it's the opposite and what we're seeing is very reassuring. Mind you it's probably not going to get a final release until 2023 but...good things come to those who wait.
Solasta is a 3rd party game using the 5e ruleset and is pretty decent. Not official "D&D" but worth mentioning.
Sword Coast Legends got...mixed receptions. Mid-to-bad.
Neverwinter (the MMO) is pretty decent from what I played. Admittedly not touched it in years, but it seems to be chugging along quite pleasantly since it's still getting updates.
NWN2 was good and Mask of the Betrayer was excellent.
NWN1 was solid, though it really only came into its own with the expansions and fan content.
Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance 1+2 were fun action games.
The Infinity Engine games (BG1+2, IWD1+2, PS:T) are of course classics and their Enhanced Editions brought them all into the modern era to still be enjoyed. Despite criticisms I thought Siege of Dragonspear was a solid addition to the Bhaalspawn's journey.

Pathfinder: Kingmaker and Wrath of the Righteous are, well, pathfinder and not D&D, but they're also both excellent titles and it's not unreasonable to call them D&D-adjacent for the whole "3.PF" ruleset stuff.

Sadly not really familiar with any games prior to the Infinity Engine titles as I'm too young (at a mere 3 decades) to have played them, but overall from what I've played there's more good than bad, at least from what I've played. That their latest release was bad doesn't (and shouldn't) detract from the ones that are good.

[loki_ragnarock]

Pathfinder: Kingmaker and Wrath of the Righteous are, well, pathfinder and not D&D, but they're also both excellent titles and it's not unreasonable to call them D&D-adjacent for the whole "3.PF" ruleset stuff.
Eh, I haven't touched Wrath of the Righteous, but Kingmaker had... problems. Which you'd expect from something so ambitious, but the last chapter was just awful.

[Amnestic]

Eh, I haven't touched Wrath of the Righteous, but Kingmaker had... problems. Which you'd expect from something so ambitious, but the last chapter was just awful.

I don't think anyone defends that stupid House and the Wild Hunt stunners and the two worlds design, but one bad dungeon isn't enough to take away from the rest of the game for me though.