[3.5] Rule Nuances

[astuertz]

I came across an interesting nuance in the rules for feat prerequisites.


A feat sometimes requires you to have a certain ability score, which is the case with Two-Weapon Fighting (it requires Dex 15). A character has, say, Dex 13, but wears an item, in this case gloves of Dexterity +2, and now her Dex score is 15. Can she take the feat and have it be active only when she wears the item?

Actually yes, she could take the feat, but she would lose the use of the feat if, for whatever reason, she loses the bonus from the item.
(cannot post source due to forum limitations, but it comes from the rules FAQ.)

This, of course, has some interesting implications; primarily, if ability damage would prevent you from meeting the prerequisite for a feat, you no longer can benefits from that feat until you once again meet that prerequisite.

What are some other interesting nuances in 3.5 rules?

[flappeercraft]

I have never seen anyone mention it but feats are pretty much all extraordinary abilities. In reference to Exalted feats, BoED says this "These feats are thus supernatural in nature (rather than being extraordinary abilities, as most feats are)" on page 39.

Also on the losing of prerequisites and ability damage for feats you mentioned, that's something that can be seen even in the SRD and does not need FAQ citing. "A character can’t use a feat if he or she has lost a prerequisite." (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#typesOfFeats)

Somewhat known one as well but "If a character does not meet the Requirements for a prestige class before that first step, that character cannot take the first level of that prestige class." (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/prestigeClasses.htm)

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I have never seen anyone mention it but feats are pretty much all extraordinary abilities. In reference to Exalted feats, BoED says this "These feats are thus supernatural in nature (rather than being extraordinary abilities, as most feats are)" on page 39.[Psionic] feats are also supernatural abilities unless otherwise stated.


Psionic Feats
Psionic feats are available only to characters and creatures with the ability to manifest powers. (In other words, they either have a power point reserve or have psi-like abilities.)

Because psionic feats are supernatural abilities—a departure from the general rule that feats do not grant supernatural abilities—they cannot be disrupted in combat (as powers can be) and generally do not provoke attacks of opportunity (except as noted in their descriptions). Supernatural abilities are not subject to power resistance and cannot be dispelled; however, they do not function in areas where psionics is suppressed, such as a null psionics field. Leaving such an area immediately allows psionic feats to be used.

Many psionic feats can be used only when you are psionically focused; others require you to expend your psionic focus to gain their benefit. Expending your psionic focus does not require an action; it is part of another action (such as using a feat). When you expend your psionic focus, it applies only to the action for which you expended it.

Lessee... It's well-known on these boards, but apparently not as widespread outside of them: psicrystals gain actual HD, and thus, HD-based feats and 3/4 BAB, as is standard for intelligent constructs.

Warforged* have the construct type (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#constructType), and thus any traits of the type unless explicitly overridden by their entry. So a warforged with excessive size gains bonus hp due to their construct traits. Warforged plating can be magically or psionically enhanced, and any enhancement bonus granted this way grants hardness and bonus hp, as well.

Monk unarmed strikes count as manufactured weapons for effects that benefit the monk, so if you spend the money to make their unarmed strikes masterwork upon character creation or somehow obtain a new body created ex nihilo (or, at least, from spare parts), you can enhance them magically or psionically just like any other manufactured masterwork weapon. Giving their unarmed strikes enhancement bonuses also gives them hardness and bonus hp.

Having multiple psionic manifesters in the party is vastly more powerful than just one, since they can manifest from each other's powers known (essentially increasing their effective powers known, especially for long-duration effects such as inertial armor).

[edit] The manifestation of psionic powers by characters with psionics as either a racial or a class ability is considered an innate psi-like ability, meaning that in any campaign where psionics is equivalent to magic, and any campaign where you have the Magic mantle, you should be able to take Supernatural Transformation (Psionics) for some seriously good benefits.

Nowhere is there a rule that says you can only apply a metapsionic feat to a power once, unlike every other meta- feat in the entire game. This means you can double-Empower, etc. The flipside is that this is covered by the dearth of ways to gain additional psionic foci (or focuses?). You can only gain a max of three, normally, and then only IF you store one in your psicrystal and take the psychic weapon master PrC. There's a level 10 ardent ACF that removes the need for focus on metapsionics when applied to a specific mantle, though, which completely breaks the game, since it removes multistacking for things like Empower, Widen, Enlarge, and Extend.





*Only from the Eberron Campaign Setting book. The MMIII version is different. However, the ECS is the primary source, and the errata doesn't change this.

[Tzardok]

Warforged have the construct type (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#constructType), and thus any traits of the type unless explicitly overridden by their entry. So a warforged with excessive size gains bonus hp due to their construct traits.


Explicitely not. The description of the Living Construct subtype mentions that living constructs gain extra hit points based on Con instead of size.



Having multiple psionic manifesters in the party is vastly more powerful than just one, since they can manifest from each other's powers known (essentially increasing their effective powers known, especially for long-duration effects such as inertial armor).


Wait, what? Where does it say that?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Explicitely not. The description of the Living Construct subtype mentions that living constructs gain extra hit points based on Con instead of size.I just checked the Eberron Campaign Setting book, and this is explicitly untrue. The entry says absolutely nothing about bonus hp based on size.

Just checked the MMIII, and it's true there, so my apologies. However, it's a secondary source and not the primary, so the ECS should take precedence so long as it's available.


Wait, what? Where does it say that?In the "Manifest an Unknown Power from Another’s Powers Known" entry, here (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicPowersOverview.htm#:~:text=Manifest%20an%20 Unknown%20Power%20from%20Another's%20Powers%20Know n&text=A%20psionic%20character%20can%20make,effects% 20of%20other%20immobilizing%20conditions)).


A psionic character can attempt to manifest a power from a source other than his own knowledge (usually a power stone or another willing psionic character). To do so, the character must first make contact (a process similar to addressing a power stone, requiring a Psicraft check against a DC of 15 + the highest level power in the power stone or repertoire). A psionic character can make contact with only a willing psionic character or creature (unconscious creatures are considered willing, but not psionic characters under the effects of other immobilizing conditions). Characters who can’t use power stones for any reason are also banned from attempting to manifest powers from the knowledge of other psionic characters. Mental contact requires 1 full round of physical contact, which can provoke attacks of opportunity. Once contact is achieved, the character becomes aware of all the powers stored in the power stone or all the powers the other character knows up to the highest level of power the contactor knows himself.

Next, the psionic character must choose one of the powers and make a second Psicraft check (DC 15 + the power’s level) to see if he understands it. If the power is not on his class list, he automatically fails this check.

Upon successfully making contact with another willing psionic character or creature and learning what he can of one power in particular, the character can immediately attempt to manifest that power even if he doesn’t know it (and assuming he has power points left for the day). He can attempt to manifest the power normally on his next turn, and he succeeds if he makes one additional Psicraft check (DC 15 + the power’s level). He retains the ability to manifest the selected power for only 1 round. If he doesn’t manifest the power, fails the Psicraft check, or manifests a different power, he loses his chance to manifest that power for the day.

[Tzardok]

I just checked the Eberron Campaign Setting book, and this is explicitly untrue. The entry says absolutely nothing about bonus hp based on size.

Just checked the MMIII, and it's true there, so my apologies. However, it's a secondary source and not the primary, so the ECS should take precedence so long as it's available.

I would say if the primary source doesn't say anything, and the secondary source says no, the answer is no. Especially as "no" in this case seams more internally consistent to me.


In the "Manifest an Unknown Power from Another’s Powers Known" entry, here (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicPowersOverview.htm#:~:text=Manifest%20an%20 Unknown%20Power%20from%20Another's%20Powers%20Know n&text=A%20psionic%20character%20can%20make,effects% 20of%20other%20immobilizing%20conditions)).

Whoa. Sounds like fun.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I would say if the primary source doesn't say anything, and the secondary source says no, the answer is no. Especially as "no" in this case seams more internally consistent to me.The ECS has a complete list of everything in the living construct subtype. Anything not listed there is not part of the subtype. Any additions tossed in afterwards by other sources are not part of the subtype as far as the primary source is concerned, and are thus wrong. It's like an adventure manual stating that the original lycanthrope template lowers Int to 2 because you gain animal HD. This isn't a part of the template, even if a dev assumes it's the case later on.

They really should've added the bonus hp thing in on ECS's errata, but they didn't, so it's an error in the MMIII's listing.

[Darg]

They really should've added the bonus hp thing in on ECS's errata, but they didn't, so it's an error in the MMIII's listing.

I wouldn't call it an error. The eberron setting has a few mechanical differences from regular 3.5 which is fine. Changing it to fit the system better is well within the rights of designers. If you don't use the ECS then the MM3 is in fact the primary source which is perfectly acceptable.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I wouldn't call it an error. The eberron setting has a few mechanical differences from regular 3.5 which is fine. Changing it to fit the system better is well within the rights of designers. If you don't use the ECS then the MM3 is in fact the primary source which is perfectly acceptable.You can't have two primary sources for the same subtype, I'm pretty sure, especially if they countermand each other.

[Tzardok]

Are you sure that the ECS is the primary source? After all, primary source doesn't mean older, it means more authorative. And what could be more authorative on a creature subtype than a Monster Manual?

[martixy]

In the "Manifest an Unknown Power from Another’s Powers Known" entry, here (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicPowersOverview.htm#:~:text=Manifest%20an%20 Unknown%20Power%20from%20Another's%20Powers%20Know n&text=A%20psionic%20character%20can%20make,effects% 20of%20other%20immobilizing%20conditions)).

This is neat, but the action economy makes usage in combat uneconomical. Unless you resort to destroying the action economy, which admittedly psionics is good at. Outside of combat, really useful for sharing the known powers burden for long duration buff spells. Like Inertial armor.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

This is neat, but the action economy makes usage in combat uneconomical. Unless you resort to destroying the action economy, which admittedly psionics is good at. Outside of combat, really useful for sharing the known powers burden for long duration buff spells. Like Inertial armor.I did mention something to that effect in my previous post...


Having multiple psionic manifesters in the party is vastly more powerful than just one, since they can manifest from each other's powers known (essentially increasing their effective powers known, especially for long-duration effects such as inertial armor).Although not as explicitly.