Empty Handed Orcish Fury

[Rev666]

Just a quick question: in the game i DM the half orc barbarian has just taken Orcish Fury but literally an hour before he was in a combat where his Relentless Endurance was activated but it was a surprise round and he didn't have a weapon drawn.

Just going forward so im ready to make a fair ruling, if orcish fury activated while unarmed would he be able to draw a weapon as part of the reaction or is it more a case of he just lashes out when hit?

[Burley]

The "Use an Object" entry of the Actions in Combat section of the Combat chapter says:


You normally interact with an object while doing something else, such as when you draw a sword as part of an attack. When an object requires your action for its use, you take the Use an Object action. This action is also useful when you want to interact with more than one object on your turn.

Emphasis mine. Drawing a weapon is a part of your attack, and not necessarily a separate action. So, if they had a weapon on them, yes, they could draw it as a part of the reaction attack.

[JackPhoenix]

Emphasis mine. Drawing a weapon is a part of your attack, and not necessarily a separate action. So, if they had a weapon on them, yes, they could draw it as a part of the reaction attack.

That's not exactly true:

Other Activity on Your Turn

Your turn can include a variety of flourishes that require neither your action nor your move.
You can communicate however you are able, through brief utterances and gestures, as you take your turn.
You can also interact with one object or feature of the environment for free, during either your move or your action. For example, you could open a door during your move as you stride toward a foe, or you could draw your weapon as part of the same action you use to attack.

You can interact with an object as a part of your action or move, not reaction.

[Kurt Kurageous]

AFB.

IIRC, on a turn, a player can take or might be able to take a(n):

Action
Bonus Action
Interaction
Held Action (using both you action and reaction)
Reaction (ex. corner case Sentinel, Polearm Master)

I think that's it.

Orcish Fury uses your reaction to make a weapon attack. Reactions usually do not occur during the character's turn, and therefore they cannot use an interaction to draw a weapon as part of an action.

Do what you will, but I'm inclined to say tight RAW, no, gotta punch. It's not how I would rule. I'd DM fiat allow it because it's a key moment in the player's experience, and I'd allow a monster to do it, too.

But what would be the use of this part of the feat otherwise? How often can you drop to 0 HP during your turn?

[Psyren]

But what would be the use of this part of the feat otherwise? How often can you drop to 0 HP during your turn?

Counterpoint - usually you drop to zero with your weapon already in hand, because that tends to happen mid-fight as opposed to the beginning.

Personally I would allow them to draw during the reaction attack though, even if it isn't RAW.

[Jerrykhor]

I think in this case specific beats general, so if the feat says you can do it, then you can, even though normally you cannot. Unless you have no weapons at all.

[JLandan]

I would say by RAW... no.

But... as a DM, I rule that an opportunity attack may be made with unarmed strike because I like the idea of kicking someone in the butt on their way out.

So, I would allow an unarmed strike.

I would not allow a weapon to be drawn, because opportunity attack does not allow for it, and I don't see Orcish Fury as being that different. Being surprised also does not allow for the drawing of a weapon.

A surprised half-orc went to 0 hp and relentlessly endured back to 1 hp and then orcish-furied a reaction attack. And then drew a weapon to make the attack.

Yeah. He's gotta punch. Like when someone gets startled. IMO.

[Unoriginal]

Just a quick question: in the game i DM the half orc barbarian has just taken Orcish Fury but literally an hour before he was in a combat where his Relentless Endurance was activated but it was a surprise round and he didn't have a weapon drawn.

Just going forward so im ready to make a fair ruling, if orcish fury activated while unarmed would he be able to draw a weapon as part of the reaction or is it more a case of he just lashes out when hit?

By the rules, you cannot draw a weapon as part of a reaction-using attack.


Being surprised also does not allow for the drawing of a weapon.

Well being surprised also does not allow to use a reaction.

That being said I agree with the half-orc doing an unarmed attack, if they are able to do a reaction attack without weapon in hand.

[Burley]

So, I'm gonna get nitpicky here, but the line from my quote says you can draw a weapon as part of an attack. You could draw it as part of a bonus action attack, if you're gonna dual-wield, right? Why not as part of the reaction?

If a reaction is the action you are using to attack, per JackPhoenix's quote:


Other Activity on Your Turn

Your turn can include a variety of flourishes that require neither your action nor your move.
You can communicate however you are able, through brief utterances and gestures, as you take your turn.
You can also interact with one object or feature of the environment for free, during either your move or your action. For example, you could open a door during your move as you stride toward a foe, or you could draw your weapon as part of the same action you use to attack.

Changed the emphasis. It doesn't say "as a part of a standard or bonus action." Just part of the same action you're attacking with. Reaction is an action, no?

[OvisCaedo]

It's kind of messy because the standard action is almost always called just "action" as if that's the absolute game term. (in fact, looking at the PHB, 'standard action' only shows up once! In the index, referring to just see 'action') But then other terms are briefly referred to as "special actions". 5e likes to pretend it doesn't use legalese, but it... frequently just uses common terms AS legalese. Sometimes on purpose, sometimes on accident. Just look at "attack with a melee weapon" being deliberately distinct from "melee weapon attack".

In this case, though, the object interaction thing is specifically part of a section called "other activity on your turn", so I don't think it applies to out of turn reactions even if you do count them as an "action". You could make an argument for drawing a weapon as part of a reaction on your own turn if some circumstance somehow led to that, and I think people generally wouldn't argue because you probably could have drawn it otherwise anyhow.

[Unoriginal]

Reaction is an action, no?

Well, no, they aren't. Actions and reactions are always mentioned separately in rules that mention them.

[Jerrykhor]

So, I'm gonna get nitpicky here, but the line from my quote says you can draw a weapon as part of an attack. You could draw it as part of a bonus action attack, if you're gonna dual-wield, right? Why not as part of the reaction?


Actually, you can't draw it as part of the bonus action attack. Its explicitly stated that to interact with a 2nd object, you need to use your action. That's why Dual Wielder feat also specifically allows you to alleviate that problem.

But if we are gonna get REAL nitpicky, then by RAW archery does not work. Because if the bow is the first object interaction, then the arrow is the 2nd object interaction, which you need to use your action. So now you can't attack after drawing both items.

[OvisCaedo]

The ammunition property states that drawing the ammo for a shot is "part of the attack". I think that overrides the object interaction rules by RAW, though they are admittedly written very similarly with "part of the same action you use to attack". This might be an actual case of specific versus general!

and obviously the rules as intended are that you can draw multiple pieces of ammo for multiple attacks (as compared to the Loading property)

[follacchioso]

The encounter must have been very dangerous, if the character went down on the surprise round. If they have selected such a feat, it indicates they must have been a melee character (so good AC and hit points), and at least lv 4.

It may sound harsh, but these are things that the players learn over time. If you are travelling through such an hostile environment where you can be KO'd in one round, you should have your weapons ready all the time.

[Rev666]

The encounter must have been very dangerous, if the character went down on the surprise round. If they have selected such a feat, it indicates they must have been a melee character (so good AC and hit points), and at least lv 4.

It may sound harsh, but these are things that the players learn over time. If you are travelling through such an hostile environment where you can be KO'd in one round, you should have your weapons ready all the time.

He was a level 3 (he levelled up after the fight) barbarian with 38 HP who who tried sneaking into a room with 3 mage apprentices who knew he was coming. All 3 cast burning hands (they beat him on initiative so he couldn't take reactions, ergo, no opportunity attacks; all 3 moved in front of him and got the guys behind him as well before moving off to form a deadly conga line).

He failed all 3 Dex saves (even with Danger Sense) and i rolled 16,, 14 and 12 on the damage.

It really was a case of bad luck but these things happen. It was the fact that this was the second time his Relentless Endurance had activated that session that inspired him to take Orcish Fury

[Psyren]

He was a level 3 (he levelled up after the fight) barbarian with 38 HP who who tried sneaking into a room with 3 mage apprentices who knew he was coming. All 3 cast burning hands (they beat him on initiative so he couldn't take reactions, ergo, no opportunity attacks; all 3 moved in front of him and got the guys behind him as well before moving off to form a deadly conga line).

He wouldn't have gotten opportunity attacks anyway unless he had the Mage Slayer feat; without that, casting doesn't provoke in 5e even if you're casting in melee.

Even then, (a) he would only have been able to hit one of them, and (b) you'd have to rule whether the trigger is the mage starting to cast or the spell going off - the latter would make it too late to stop.

(Granted, by RAW Burning Hands doesn't use concentration anyway so he wouldn't have been able to stop it regardless.)