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Nosta
2022-02-08, 08:56 PM
So my party and I are in a Dragon Heavy campaign and I'd like To build a character who can help the party fight them .

I Need Good Offense and defense and a Way to share fear immunities with said party.
I want to go sword and Board but not sure if that's Too feat intensive.

If it is I can so Two handed.
But would like too use a Great Axe for Flavor . Im ripping the the image of an armor person with a large one blade axe.

What Feats are absolution needed for fighting Dragons for a paladin.
Should I focus on power Attack.
Should I take Feats that effect my class abilities?

Just not sure what to do.

Rynjin
2022-02-08, 09:10 PM
All you REALLY need is Power Attack to be a competent melee combatant. Sword and board is only Feat intensive if you plan to do a lot with it (TWFing primarily, actually bashing the **** out of people with your shield). Personally I've always preferred a 2H build with Paladins because they don't get any bonus Feats.

Other Feats of note:
Fey Foundling: (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/fey-foundling/)Gigajuices your Lay on Hands so you can practically full heal yourself as a Swift at many levels.
Greater Mercy: (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/greater-mercy/) Combines with the above.
Dragonbane Aura: (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/dragonbane-aura/) Juices your Aura of Courage to protect against dragon breath.
If you wanna be a really avantegarde Grapple based Paladin, Snoutgrip (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/snoutgrip-combat/) is hilarious. Not as bad as it may initially sound; the universal attack roll bonus that Smite Evil gives adds to CMB, and the AC bonus increase syour CMD to boot. So it's easy to grapple, and harder for them to bust out.

Also I swear there was a Feat that let you use a (non-Tower) shield to gain a bonus against Breath Weapons but I can't find it.

My suggestion?

Take Fey Foundling at 1st, and also Power Attack if you're Human (take it at 3rd if you're not). Greater Mercy at 5th, and then whatever seems cool at 7th, Dragonbane Aura at 9, and then whatever seems cool from there on. Use a 2H weapon; you can already wear Full Plate and your AC will be SUPREMELY high when Smiting anyway, so extra damage is what you really want.

Choose either Oath Against the Wyrm (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/paladin/archetypes/paizo-paladin-archetypes/oathbound-paladin/oath-against-the-wyrm) (for thematics, but little power) or Oath of Vengeance (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/paladin/archetypes/paizo-paladin-archetypes/oathbound-paladin/oath-of-vengeance) (which actually can be just as thematic if you swear it against a SPECIFIC dragon, and is much, much, much more powerful).

Oaths are unique "archetypes" in that you do not need to choose them immediately, and can actually take an Oath and swap the class features at any time. So you could actually START as Oath Against the Wyrm or a normal Paladin, and then take Oath of Vengeance as the campaign progresses.

Edit: Oh, right, ways to share Fear immunity. You could spend a Feat on Fearless Aura (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/fearless-aura/) at...11? or so, but I don't recommend it. Instead, prepare Aura of Greater Courage (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/a/aura-of-greater-courage/) as one of your spells instead.

Particle_Man
2022-02-08, 11:35 PM
It would be good to either get the ability to fly or a flying mount. If not you need to be really good with ranged weapons. Because dragons can fly.

Rynjin
2022-02-08, 11:43 PM
Eh. If your GM wants to play Flyby footsies, a flying Mount isn't going to help; they fly like 1/3 of the speed of a dragon anyway. And Oath Against the Wyrm anti-synergizes with mounts.

Epic Legand
2022-02-08, 11:49 PM
IF Path of War is allowed Iron Tortoise has many maneuvers that are prefect for fighting dragons, and as they are maneuvers, you dont have to spend feats on them. Knight Disciple (Path of War) looks useful. Sphears also has some good shield options. Core makes it tough...you really just want a 2 handed weapon there

Particle_Man
2022-02-09, 11:49 PM
Eh. If your GM wants to play Flyby footsies, a flying Mount isn't going to help; they fly like 1/3 of the speed of a dragon anyway. And Oath Against the Wyrm anti-synergizes with mounts.

Depends on the mount. For one thing the mount could be another Dragon. That was the theme of the Dragonlance novels after all.

Rynjin
2022-02-12, 06:20 PM
Depends on the mount. For one thing the mount could be another Dragon. That was the theme of the Dragonlance novels after all.

Well, your Mount options as a Paladin do not include dragons, or even drakes. Even with Monstrous Mount, your options only expand to Griffon, Hippogriff, Hippocampus, and Warg. Two of those can fly, but cap out at 60 ft...still well below the 100+ ft. Fly speed most dragons enjoy.

Drake Mounts (available to specific archetypes)...also cap out at 60.

So playing the "fly after the dragon" game is always a losing prospect; better to arrange that it has to fight you in confined spaces, like its own lair.

Particle_Man
2022-02-12, 09:38 PM
Are feats from 3.5 allowed? If so Dragon Cohort is on the table.

Alternatively find a way to increase your movement rate and be a half-dragon yourself (fly at double your land speed).

Eldonauran
2022-02-13, 01:06 PM
Is the dragon evil? Smite Evil. Pick up any old weapon and smite the hell out of it. That's pretty much all you need to do. That, and get as many attacks as you can that hit and that leaves you outside of its melee range (as they get a lot of attacks) or get an AC/CMD high enough to avoid most of its attacks. Or both.

If I was designing a Paladin specifically made to fight dragons, I would make them a switch-hitter. More focus on speed and agility than pure strength. Spring-Attack would likely be one of the feats I try to get for any sort of melee, to get its attention and keep it moving on the ground away from my allies to reduce its melee potential. Then it would be a decent smattering of archery feats (maybe hand crossbow), or if you are lucky enough, a weapon with the Sharding ability.

I built a Paladin in Herolab that should be more than adequate enough to handle a standard CR 12 dragon easily, and give a CR 14 a run for their money. it might not be what you are looking for but, it might give you ideas.
Half-Elf Paladin (Virtuous Bravo) / VMC Cavalier of the Eastern Star.


Armor Class:
10 Base
+6 (22 Dex)
+4 (Armor + Enhancement)
+3 (Buckler + Enhancement)
+2 (Deflection)
+2 (Natural)
+4 (Dodge)
----------------
31 AC (static)

+4 (Dodge: Challenge)
+2 (Sacred: Champion armor)
+3 (Dodge: 2 Fighting Defensively + 1 Acrobatics ranks)
----------------
40 AC (Clobbering Time)
+4 vs AoO (Mobility)

CR 14 dragons tend to have +23 or so to hit. They need a 17 or higher to hit us.


Spiked Gauntlet:
+12 (BAB)
+6 (Dexterity)
+2 (Enhancement)
-------------------
+20 to hit

+3 (Smite)
+3 (Holy Weapon Bond)
+2 (Dragon Bane)
-------------------
+28 to hit

-4 (fight defensively)
-------------------
+24 to hit

Carry a light crossbow for ranged attacks against a flying Dragon. Your smite will be more than enough to deal enough damage to make it run away or land.


1d4 (Spike Gauntlet)
+2 (Strength)
+2 (Enhancement)
+12 (Precise Strike)
-----------------------
1d4+18
20.5 (Average Damage)

+10 (Cavalier Challenge)
+12 (Smite)
+2d6 (Bane Enhancement)
-----------------------
1d4+2d6+40
49.5 (Average Damage)

Against a CR 14 Dragon (roughly 200hp, assuming Evil), you just need to hit it FOUR times to kill it. If it is not evil, SIX times.

Why a spiked gauntlet? Because: It can't be disarmed and it leaves your hands free. That's it. Besides, punching a dragon to death and offending its honor at the same time tickles me. Even when it tries to grapple you when its attacks can't hit you.

+2 vs Enchantment (Elven Immunities)
Fort: 17 (8 (Base) + 4 (Con) + 2 (Resistance) + 3 (Cha))
Ref: 15 (4 (Base) + 6 (Dex) + 2 (Resistance) + 3 (Cha))
Will: 13 (+8 (Base) -1 (Will) +3 (Resistance) + 3 (Cha))
----------------------
+4 (Challenge)
+2 (Guarded: Order Ability when fighting defensively)
----------------------
Fort: 23
Ref: 21
Will: 19

*Evasion & Improved Uncanny Dodge
Immune: Sleep, Charm, Disease, Fear
Dragon-Slaying Paladin
Paladin vs Dragons
Half-elf paladin (virtuous bravo) 12/cavalier*
LG Medium humanoid (elf, human)
Init 8; Senses low-light vision; Perception +14
Aura courage (10 ft.), resolve (10 ft.)
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 31, touch 22, flat-footed 21 (+4 armor, +2 deflection, +6 Dex, +4 dodge, +2 natural, +3 shield)
hp 118 (12d10+48)
Fort 17, Ref 15, Will 13; +2 vs. enchantments, +4 insight bonus vs. the abilities of the target of your challenge
Defensive Abilities evasive, subtle blade, nimble +3; Immune sleep, charm, disease, fear
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Melee +4 dragon-bane spiked gauntlet +20/+15/+10 (1d4+4 P+12 Precision plus 2d6)
Ranged light crossbow +18/+13/+8 (1d8 P/19+)
Special Attacks bleeding wound, challenge 1/day (+10 damage, +4 dodge bonus to AC and insight save bonus when lightly armored and encumbered), channel positive energy 5/day (DC 19, 6d6), menacing swordplay, opportune parry and riposte, panache (3), precise strike, smite evil 4/day (+3 attack, +0 AC, +12 damage), tactician 3/day (9 rds), targeted strike
Paladin Spell-Like Abilities (CL 12th; concentration +15)
At will—detect evil
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 14, Dex 22, Con 18, Int 12, Wis 8, Cha 17
Base Atk +12; CMB 14; CMD 36
Feats Dodge, Mobility, Psychic Sensitivity[OA], Skill Focus (Intimidate), Spring Attack, Tandem Evasion
Skills Acrobatics +19, Diplomacy +7, Intimidate +19, Knowledge (arcana) +2, Knowledge (religion) +5, Perception +14, Ride +10, Sense Motive +3, Spellcraft +5; Racial Modifiers +2 Perception
Languages Common, Draconic, Elven
SQ bravo's finesse, crossbow training, divine bond (weapon +3, 2/day), dodging panache, elf blood, guarded, lay on hands 11/day (8d6+6), order (order of the eastern star[OA]), superior feint, swashbuckler initiative, swashbuckler's grace
Other Gear +2 champion darkleaf cloth leather, +2 buckler, +2 dragon-bane spiked gauntlet, light crossbow, amulet of natural armor +2, belt of physical might +4 (Dex, Con), bracers of the merciful knight[UE], cape of free will +2/+3[MA], headband of alluring charisma +2, ring of protection +2
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Aura of Courage +4 (10 ft.) (Su) Allies in aura gain a morale bonus to saves vs. fear.
Aura of Resolve +4 (10 ft.) (Su) Allies in aura gain a morale bonus to saves vs. charm.
Bravo's Finesse (Ex) Use Dex for att with light/1-hand pierce wep. Use Cha instead of Int for combat feat pre-reqs.
Crossbow Training Reload proficient crossbows 1 step faster.
Deed: Bleeding Wound (6 hp bleed, or 1 ability bleed) (Ex) Use 1 panache, deal 6 bleed dam, or use 2 grit to deal 1 Str/Dex/Con bleed.
Deed: Dodging Panache +3 (Ex) As an imm action when attacked, use 1 panache to move 5 ft. and gain +3 to AC vs. attack.
Deed: Evasive (Ex) While have 1 panache, gain evasion, uncanny dodge, improved uncanny dodge.
Deed: Menacing Swordplay (Ex) While 1 panache, as a swift action when hit, attempt demoralize check.
Deed: Opportune Parry and Riposte (Ex) 1 panache and 1 AoO to attempt to parry a melee attack, then counterattack.
Deed: Precise Strike +12 (Ex) While 1 panache, bonus to att/dam with light/one-hand piercing weapon.
Deed: Subtle Blade (Ex) While have 1 panache, immune to disarm, steal, sunder on your swashbuckler weapons.
Deed: Superior Feint (Ex) While 1 panache, as a standard action deliberatly miss foe to deny Dex AC bonus until next turn.
Deed: Swashbuckler Initiative (Ex) While have Panache, free hand draws light or 1-hand pierce wep as part of the init roll.
Deed: Swashbuckler's Grace (Ex) If have 1 panache, no Acrobatics pen when full speed through threatened areas.
Deed: Targeted Strike (Ex) Spend 1 panache as full-rd action to attack part of foe's body.
Detect Evil (At will) (Sp) You can use detect evil at will (as the spell).
Divine Bond (Weapon +3, 12 mins, 2/day) (Sp) Weapon shines with light and gains enhancement bonuses or chosen properties.
Eastern Star's Challenge +10 (1/day) (Ex) +10 to damage target, -2 AC vs. others when used, +4 dodge bonus to AC and insight save bonus when lightly armored and encumbered.
Elf Blood
Elven Immunities - Sleep
Guarded (DR 3/-) (Ex) DR/- and +2 morale bonus on saves when wearing light or no armor and light load.
Immunity to Charm
Immunity to Disease
Immunity to Fear (Ex)
Lay on Hands (8d6+6 hit points, 11/day) (Su) As a standard action (swift on self), touch channels positive energy and applies mercies.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in dim light, distinguishing color and detail.
Mobility +4 to AC vs. AoO provoked by moving out of or through a threatened area.
Nimble +3 (Ex) +3 dodge bonus to AC.
Paladin Channel Positive Energy 6d6 (5/day, DC 19) (Su) Positive energy heals the living and harms the undead; negative has the reverse effect.
Panache (Ex) Gain a pool of points that are spent to fuel deeds, regained on light/piercing crit/killing blow.
Smite Evil (4/day) (Su) +3 to hit, +12 to damage, +0 deflection bonus to AC when used.
Spring Attack You can move - attack - move when attacking with a melee weapon.
Tactician (9 rds, 3/day) (Ex) Grant the use of one of your teamwork bonus feats to all allies within 30 ft.
Tandem Evasion If another with this feat is adjacent, gain evasion vs. dragon breath weapon & tail sweep.