Junkyard Wars XXXVI - Vestige Binding + MWP - Binder

[Thurbane]

Welcome to Junkyard Stadium! It is in this hallowed pile of miscellaneous parts that we will hold a competition of Practical Optimization with three components. The catch? Competitors may not use the third item in their builds!

Goal: Create a build that showcases the selected ingredients while steering clear of the Forbidden Ingredient.

This competition has two Necessary Components and one Forbidden Component. This round's components are...



Necessary: Ability to bind vestiges (ToM)
Necessary: Proficient in all martial weapons
Forbidden: Binder base class (ToM)




Creation: 32 point-buy is the presumed creation method. You may assume that you will have enough exp to reach ECL 20, and that the occasional bit of crafting, use of spells with exp components, or the like won't prevent you from doing so. However, LA buyoff is an alternate rule which is not in play.
Workshop: Competitors will be free to use any official 3.5 rulebook in constructing their builds. Dragon Magazine is disallowed, and Unearthed Arcana is allowed; but see below. Web-exclusive 3.0 or 3.5 materials by WotC are expressly allowed, but take care to verify that an updated version did not appear in print elsewhere as this may cause an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion. If you use web material, please link it. Dragon Magazine Compendium is allowed, as are Oriental Adventures (and its 3.5 updates in Dragon Magazine) and the Dragonlance Campaign Setting. Alternate rule systems from UA such as generic classes, spontaneous divine casters, gestalt and fractional saves and BAB are not allowed, as they create a different playing field.
Leadership is banned: We're creating one thing, not all of the things. If your entry includes a prestige class or ACF that grants Leadership or a Leadership-like ability as a bonus feat, the feat should be ignored and is not eligible to be traded away for another feat or ACF through any means.
Speculation: Please don't post or speculate on possible builds until after the reveal in order to avoid spoiling the surprise if a particular competitor is producing a build along those lines. Speculation and stub posting is to be avoided until the reveal is completed.
Disputes: Any scoring disputes should be sent to the Chair via PM. Valid disputes include RAW misreadings, arithmetic errors, things missed that are present in the entry, and inconsistently applied criteria. Invalid disputes include disagreements on matters of opinion, a judge not catching something not explicitly presented in the entry, and the like. Invalid disputes will be responded to via PM by the Chair, but valid disputes will be posted in-thread for the judge to review. When disputing, please indicate the judge the dispute is intended for and provide a quote of the disputed comment or comments. Note: the Chair may edit or paraphrase any disputes in presenting them to the judges.
Presentation: You will need to present a write-up of your build at at least one of the following points: 5th level, 10th level, 15th, 20th, and a "sweet spot" that you feel is the high point of the build, as well as presenting a fully-fleshed out 20-level build in the table below. Please give a rundown of the build's abilities and playability throughout its life. Builds will be posted anonymously, in order to avoid the potential of bias towards a particular competitor. For this reason, please don't put your name in the build as I'm likely to miss it when reviewing the entries. Also for this reason, PLEASE do not include any material that may or may not offend any potential viewers/judges/competitors OR break forum rules. Any builds which violate forum rules WILL be withheld from posting.
Anonymity: if you are submitting multiple entries, please try not to have entries reference each other, or have other obvious "tells" that they are from the same competitor. If it is essential for your concept that entries are somehow linked, that is fine, but otherwise, please try to limit info that will give away who competitors are.



Due to concerns about standardizing entry format, please use the following table for their entry.
NAME OF ENTRY


Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features


1st
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


2nd
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


3rd
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


4th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


5th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


6th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


7th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


8th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


9th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


10th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


11th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


12th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


13th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


14th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


15th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


16th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


17th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


18th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


19th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


20th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities



Code immediately below (spoiler).

Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features


1st
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


2nd
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


3rd
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


4th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


5th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


6th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


7th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


8th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


9th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


10th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


11th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


12th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


13th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


14th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


15th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


16th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


17th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


18th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


19th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


20th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


For entries with spellcasting, use the following table for Spells per day and Spells Known. (Spells Known only if necessary, i.e. Sorcerer or Bard, but not Wizard or Warmage)
Spells per Day/Spells Known


Level
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th


1st
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


2nd
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


3rd
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


4th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


5th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


6th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


7th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


8th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


9th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


10th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


11th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


12th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


13th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


14th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


15th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


16th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


17th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


18th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


19th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


20th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


Code immediately below (spoiler)Spells per Day/Spells Known


Level
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th


1st
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


2nd
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


3rd
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


4th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


5th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


6th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


7th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


8th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


9th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


10th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


11th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


12th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


13th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


14th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


15th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


16th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


17th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


18th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


19th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


20th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


For other systems (Psionics, ToB, Incarnum, etc.) keep track of PP/maneuvers/essentia separately, preferably in a nice neat list.

mattie_p has also kindly made a Google Document that greatly assists with creating and formatting tables: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BG0-5sq4dL9Ooh7-QfXuyHzO4rXSz-CRcj29t6BeUVE/edit?usp=sharing




Scoring: Each judge is required to provide the criteria by which they are judging the builds. By "criteria," we mean a simple explanation of what the judge is looking for in each of the below categories and what kind of scoring we can expect. If a judge deems a build to be illegal, they may provide a 0 in Elegance but may not refuse to judge any build presented by the Chairman.
The Categories: Judging will be based on the following criteria, with each build rated from 1 (very poor) to 5 (exemplary) in each area: Originality, Power, Elegance, Use of Components.


Originality: Is the build unique? Does it deviate from the obvious? Does it forge its own path, or does it fall back on common, established optimization tricks? Some judges score entries for the quality of their concept & backstory as well, though not all do. Providing at least some backstory is heavily encouraged, as it helps the judges figure out who the entry is. Note that the purpose of this category is not to penalize entries that independently came up with the same idea as another entry, but rather to reward entries that explore underutilized and non-obvious areas of optimization, so, judges, try not to base your judging in this category too heavily on what other builds are doing. Multiple entries using the same element may certainly be evidence that the element is unoriginal, but you shouldn't impose anything like a "-1 for each other build using the same class" penalty.
Power: Power level is up to you. Cheese is acceptable, but should be kept to a sane level unless you're showcasing a new TO build you've discovered. In the words of one of my predecessors, a little cheddar can be nice, but avoid the mature Gruyere unless you're making a cheese fondue.
Elegance: This category was formerly titled "Build Stability." Here, we're essentially measuring how skillfully you put your build together and how you balanced flavor with power. We're cooking here - if your dish doesn't taste good, it doesn't matter how well-presented it is. Use of flaws is an automatic loss of one point per flaw in this category. Other things that will cause lost points here are excessive multiclassing (meaning any multiclassing that results in an xp penalty), and classes that don't fit the concept - using Cloistered Cleric in a front-line melee fighter, for example, may lose you points. Rule adherence and legality of sources is scored under this category; additionally, reliance on a questionable, controversial, or ambiguous ruling can and should result in a deduction. Neither the number of sources nor their relative obscurity should be penalized--contestants should feel free to use any books they like. Dipping should not be penalized unless it results in a multiclass xp penalty; if the system won't penalize it, neither should judges.
Use of Components: Was the Forbidden Component avoided? Were the Necessary Components showcased, or simply used because they were necessary?



Note on scoring: if you are going to penalize an entry for something specific, it is strongly recommend that it only be penalized in one of the four categories for this - the one you feel is the most relevant. It is OK to put different penalties for different instances in their own category, but if, say, someone fails to qualify for a PrC, try not to ping them in Elegance and Power, for instance.
Disputes: Any scoring disputes will be posted by the Chairman in-thread after reviewing them privately. Valid disputes include

RAW misreadings,
arithmetic errors,
things missed that are present in the entry,
and inconsistently applied criteria.

Note: only competitors are to raise disputes, and only on their own entry. If you, as a spectator, find an error in judging (or in an entry, for that matter), please hold off on comment until after the final reveal. Thank you.
Invalid disputes include

disagreements on matters of opinion,
a judge not catching something not explicitly presented in the entry,
and the like.

Invalid disputes will be responded to via PM by the Chair, but valid disputes should be responded to by each individual judge. Judges are obligated to respond to disputes to ensure that everyone gets a fair shake. A judge's scores will only be recognized if they have recognized all disputes. In the absence of any other judges, the entries will be judged by the chairman.



Completion Time:

Contestants will have until 23:59 GMT Monday February 28, 2022 to create their builds and PM them to the chairman (note: you are free to submit builds up until I start posting entries, even if this deadline has passed).
Builds will then be posted simultaneously to avoid copying.
Judges will have until 23:59 GMT Monday March 14, 2022 to judge the builds and submit their scores. Judging deadline is subject to extension as required.
As the precedent has been set from Episode 2, should all prospective judges have posted their rulings in a neat, timely fashion and all disputes have been settled satisfactorily (to either judges, contestants, or the Chairperson), the judging period may end prematurely to give way to a new episode. No reason to keep working on a finished building and avoid moving onto the next one.


Looking for as many contestants and judges as feel like playing! We will award 1st through 3rd places, as well as a shout-out for honorable mention. The honorable mention prize is given to the most daring or unexpected build that doesn't gain a medal. Contestants are invited to vote for honorable mention via PM. Everyone else can vote in-thread. Ready? Set? Get to the junkyard and start building!

On the subject of messaging the chair (me), a few guidelines:
- I am not here to give critiques on your build or guess how the judges might score it!
- For entries, please keep the entry to no more than 2 messages, if at all possible.
- For entries, don't expect me to search through your entry and edit in or out material. Entries should be sent to me complete - if there is a later revision, re-submit the full build. PLEASE DON'T INCLUDE TEXT IN YOUR SUBMISSION YOU WANT ME TO EDIT OUT FOR THE POST - SUBMIT IT TO ME EXACTLY HOW I WILL POST THE FINISHED PRODUCT.
- Please make sure the name of your entry is clearly present in the message.



Junkyard Wars in the Playground I: Shadowdancer + Sneak Attack - Rogue (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?337864)
Junkyard Wars in the Playground II: Healing Spells + Ruby Knight Vindicator - Cleric (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?342896)
Junkyard Wars in the Playground III: Dragons + Theurges - Kobolds (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?347412)
Junkyard Wars in the Playground IV: BoED + Undead Type - Completes (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?355278)
Junkyard Wars in the Playground V: Dread Witch + Reaping Mauler - Fighter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?360271)
Junkyard Wars in the Playground VI: Wonderworker + Profession Skill - Factotum (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?369604)
Junkyard Wars in the Playground VII: Metamagic Feats + LA - Metamagic Reducers! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?374504)
Junkyard Wars in the Playground VIII: Pounce+Small Size-Barbarian (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?388151)
Junkyard Wars in the Playground IX: Earth Dreamer + Ordained Champion - Cleric (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?395791)
Junkyard Wars in the Playground X: Meldshaping + Natural Attacks - Totemist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?403880)
Junkyard Wars in the Playground XI: Magical Darkness + Improved Familiar - Wizard (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?409650)
Junkyard Wars in the Playground XII: Dragonmark Heirs + Touchstones - Martial Weapons (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?430214)
Junkyard Wars in the Playground XIII: Mulhorandi Divine Minion + Monk - Any Other Wildshaping (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?465901)
Junkyard Wars in the Playground XIV: Racial Paragon Classes + Spellcasting - Base Classes (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?479427)
Junkyard Wars in the Playground XV: Ruathar + Stoneblessed - Human (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?497904)
Junkyard Wars in the Playground XVI: Trapsmith + Combat Trapsmith - Rogue (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?540521)
Junkyard Wars in the Playground XVII: Elemental Warrior + Jaunter - Fighter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?552569)
Junkyard Wars in the Playground XVIII: Argent Savant + Holy Scourge - Wizard (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?555404)
Junkyard Wars in the Playground XIX: Incarnum Blade + Exotic Weapon Master - Spiked Chain (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?562523-Junkyard-Wars-XIX-IB-EWM-SC)
Junkyard Wars in the Playground XX: Xorvintaal Exarch + The Pact-Bound Adept - Sorcerer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?568541-Junkyard-Wars-XX-XE-PBA(a)-S)
Junkyard Wars in the Playground XXI: Rebuke Undead + Teamwork Benefits - [Divine] feats (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?572680-Junkyard-Wars-XXI-Halloween-Round!)
Junkyard Wars XXII: Battle Trickster + Magical Trickster - Uncanny Trickster (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?577512-Junkyard-Wars-XXII-Show-Me-Your-Skillz)
Junkyard Wars XXIII: Spellwarp Sniper + Silver Pyromancer - Energy Substitution (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?581736-Junkyard-Wars-XXIII-Ready-Aim-Fire)
Junkyard Wars XXIV: Vow of Peace + Saint - Divine casting (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?585567-Junkyard-Wars-XXIV-VoPe-S-DC)
Junkyard Wars XXV: Silverwood Arcanist + Share Soulmeld - Soulcaster (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?590622-Junkyard-Wars-XXV-SA-SS-S)
Junkyard Wars XXVI: RSL + ACF - PrCs (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?593374-Junkyard-Wars-XXVI-RSL-ACF-PrCs)
Junkyard Wars XXVII: Unholy Scion + Mark - Affiliation (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?598151-Junkyard-Wars-XXVII-US-M-A)
Junkyard Wars XXVII: 1MF + CPA&A - T (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?603826-Junkyard-Wars-XXVIII-1MF-CPA-amp-A-T)
Junkyard Wars XXIX: Social Distancing Edition! (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?610153-Junkyard-Wars-XXIX-Social-Distancing-Edition!)
Junkyard Wars XXX: Something a Little Spicy (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?631758-Junkyard-Wars-XXX-Something-a-Little-Spicy)
Junkyard Wars XXXI: Giddy-Up! (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?633325)
Junkyard Wars XXXII: Theurge Without Theurge (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?634803)
Junkyard Wars XXXIII: LotD + AF - Necropolitan (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?636185)
Junkyard Wars XXXIV: SE + HoS - Soulmelds (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?637670)
Junkyard Wars XXXV: Complete Class + Complete PrC - PHB Classes (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?641168)

[Thurbane]

Q1: Does "to bind vestiges" mean you must be able to bind more than one vestige?
A1: No, for this comp, the ability to bind a single vestige qualifies.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

This is me picking nits, but "Does the Ability to Bind Vestiges" mean that the submitted build only need to be able to bind one vestige at all or do they need "vestiges" plural, as in "Bind at least two separate vestiges even if not both at once?"

[Thurbane]

This is me picking nits, but "Does the Ability to Bind Vestiges" mean that the submitted build only need to be able to bind one vestige at all or do they need "vestiges" plural, as in "Bind at least two separate vestiges even if not both at once?"

Yeah, I won't be that nitpicky, any ability to bind a vestige qualifies, single or multiple.

[redking]

How much cheese on this pizza? Do you consider, for example, that you can advance soulbinding with a PrC even if you have no levels of Binder?

[loky1109]

Do you consider, for example, that you can advance soulbinding with a PrC even if you have no levels of Binder?

I don't see any cheese in this. It's how it should work.

[loky1109]

I have some ideas, but IC and VC first. I hope I'll have time.

[Morphic tide]

I don't see any cheese in this. It's how it should work.
It's not like there's that much use, since Anima Mage takes 2nd-level Vestiges, Knight of the Sacred Seal specifies the class feature, Tenebrous Apostate specifies a 4th-level Vestige, and Scion of Dantallion specifies a 5th. Not that it *fully excludes* access to 8th-level Vestiges, granted, since you can very trivially chuck EBL 15 in PRCs then top off with Improved Binding. But you need to *completely* burn two feats to start, since their benefit is lost on entering Anima Mage, placing a pretty significant build restriction.

[H_H_F_F]

I'm not sure if I'll participate in this round, but I do feel that the current convesation has crossed the line to speculation, which is not allowed.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Yeah, that's a bit too much speculating for my taste. I tried to word my question in such a way to get at the intent of the restrictions without playing my hand. Others likely can read between the lines. After all, there's only one-third of one source book for ways to meet the Vestige requirement and we've already removed the cleanest method by removing the base class there.

That said, I have a couple of ideas. They feel a little derivative, and I don't really want to use the two ingredients that first came to mind. Still, I have a much sillier (and I certainly hope original) idea percolating.

[Crake]

I don't see any cheese in this. It's how it should work.

Except it doesn't work. All the +binding prestige classes don't actually GRANT you the soul binding ability, and they only work FOR the soul binding ability. The bind vestige feat specifically does NOT give you said ability, and thus the prestige classes don't actually advance the feat's ability.


Furthermore, unlike characters with the soul binding class feature

Bind vestige doesn't grant the soul binding class feature.


Soul Binding Bonus: At each anima mage level, your soul binding ability improves as if you had also gained a level in the binder class. Your anima mage levels and binder levels stack for the purpose of determining your bonus on binding checks, the effectiveness of your vestige-granted abilities, your ability to bind higher-level vestiges, and the number of vestiges you can bind. You do not, however, gain any other benefit a binder would have gained.

Anima mage improves the soul binding ability, but does not actually grant the soul binding ability.

[Beni-Kujaku]

"Your anima mage levels and binder levels stack for the purpose of determining your bonus on binding checks, the effectiveness of your vestige-granted abilities, your ability to bind higher-level vestiges, and the number of vestiges you can bind. You do not, however, gain any other benefit a binder would have gained."

I am a Binder 0/Anima Mage 10. Those two stack, and I can bind vestiges with an equivalent binder level of 0+10=10. Note that this includes the number of vestiges you can bind.

Also, Anima Mage doesn't say it improves the Soul Binding class feature. It says it improves your soul binding ability. It improves your ability to bind vestiges, and the actual effect of this improvement is detailed in the following sentence.

[Crake]

"Your anima mage levels and binder levels stack for the purpose of determining your bonus on binding checks, the effectiveness of your vestige-granted abilities, your ability to bind higher-level vestiges, and the number of vestiges you can bind. You do not, however, gain any other benefit a binder would have gained."

I am a Binder 0/Anima Mage 10. Those two stack, and I can bind vestiges with an equivalent binder level of 0+10=10. Note that this includes the number of vestiges you can bind.

Also, Anima Mage doesn't say it improves the Soul Binding class feature. It says it improves your soul binding ability. It improves your ability to bind vestiges, and the actual effect of this improvement is detailed in the following sentence.

Soul binding is an ability. The "Soul binding bonus" class feature, improves the ability named "soul binding".

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Sounds like we need a ruling from the Chairman regarding how we should apply the various Binding Prestige Classes' text with respect to this competition. :smallwink:

[Crake]

Sounds like we need a ruling from the Chairman regarding how we should apply the various Binding Prestige Classes' text with respect to this competition. :smallwink:

Well, the only one that actually matters is Anima Mage, as of the other three, knight of the sacred seal requires the soul binding class feature, which the feat very clearly doesn't provide, tenebrous apostate, tenebrous isnt bindable with the feats, and scion of dantalion has the same problem as tenebrous apostate, so the only class that the bind vestige/practise binder feat combo can get you is Anima mage.

[Thurbane]

It feels like there A LOT of speculation going on here. Please lets move on from discussing entry methods. :smallmad:


Sounds like we need a ruling from the Chairman regarding how we should apply the various Binding Prestige Classes' text with respect to this competition. :smallwink:

Lets just say that is the very crux of the competition, really. To come up with workarounds for the restrictions, in a way you believe the judges will score favourably.

Also...


- I am not here to give critiques on your build or guess how the judges might score it!

I'm not going to make a ruling on each conceivable entry method. That will be up to judges to rule as they see fit.

[Malphegor]

I’ve seen a way to do this that doesn’t involve anima mage. I’m not contributing but I want to spark people’s ideas and say ‘it is possible. You might just need to find a particularly silly feeling means to get the ability of such a class withoht the actual class’

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Oh, there are least a few ways to go about this. I'm just worried about meeting the spirit of the contest rather than just the letter of it. I realize that probably sounds a little pretentious, but saying anything more than that gets into speculation.

[Beni-Kujaku]

If we're going for hints without going into speculation, let's just say that the previous comp's Blighter wasn't very well-received.

[loky1109]

My first idea... Well, it just works better without SI.
Kept thinking.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

I'm nearly done with my first build stub. I've got ideas for a second, but they're not anywhere as pleasing to me as the first. Fingers crossed I'm alone in both ideas!

[Thurbane]

How are we doing? This one's been a little more...quiet than some of the other recent rounds.

[loky1109]

I have idea, but didn't start work on it yet.

[Beni-Kujaku]

How are we doing? This one's been a little more...quiet than some of the other recent rounds.

I won't cook this round. I have no original idea and things to do IRL.

[loky1109]

Anybody besides me? )
I see, it is hard round, but interesting at the same time.

I started working, but maybe I'll need extension.

[H_H_F_F]

I'm out of this round. Might judge.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Despite saying I was almost done days ago, I finally got my first submission in. I likely won't have time for a second one, but that's okay.

[MornShine]

I had an excellent (hopefully) idea, but didn't get to an actual stub.

Life is hectic around here, so sadly I can't finish a build in any reasonable timeframe. But I'm looking forward to seeing if anyone else had the same idea.

(It's a terrible idea, so probably not)

[loky1109]

I think, I need extension. Maybe three of four days.

[loky1109]

Well, I managed to make and send my entry till deadline.

[Thurbane]

Life has been very chaotic at the moment, reveal will be posted soon(ish).

[Thurbane]

OK, here we go. Please don't post until I give the all clear.

[Thurbane]

Everything has a soul, child. From you and me, to the dwarves, the trees - even the wind and sea. Some even have multiple - The Asuka of Nine Souls
Build Stub: TN female human Crusader 1/Wu Jen 2/Anima Mage 6/Jade Phoenix Mage 10/Anima Mage +1 (7).
Ability Scores: STR 14, DEX 10, CON 14, INT 16, WIS 14, CHA 10, all level increases go to INT


Level Class Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Reflex Save Will Save Skills Feats Class Features
1st Crusader 1 1 2 0 0 28: {+4} Balance: 4; {+4} Concentration: 4; {+4} Jump: 4; {+4} Intimidate: 4; {+4 CC} Knowledge (Arcana): 2; {+4 CC} Knowledge (The Planes): 2; {+2} Knowledge (Religion): 2; {+2} Martial Lore: 2; Bind Vestige, Improved Bind Vestige Furious Counterstrike, Steel Resolve 5
2nd Wu Jen 1 1 2 0 2 5: Balance: 4; {+1} Concentration: 5; Jump: 4; Intimidate: 4; {+1} Knowledge (Arcana): 3; {+2} Knowledge (The Planes): 4; Knowledge (Religion): 2; Martial Lore: 2; {+1} Spellcraft: 1; Bonus: Extend Spell Watchful Spirit, Bonus Feat, Taboo: Must make daily offerings of food to the spirits
3rd Wu Jen 2 2 2 0 3 5: Balance: 4; {+1} Concentration: 6; Jump: 4; Intimidate: 4; Knowledge (Arcana): 3; Knowledge (The Planes): 4; {+1} Knowledge (Religion): 3; {+1} Knowledge (History): 1; Martial Lore: 2; {+2} Spellcraft: 3; Sanctum Spell Intuitive Spirit (Knowledge Reroll 1/day)
4th Anima Mage 1 2 2 0 5 5: Balance: 4; {+1} Concentration: 7; Jump: 4; Intimidate: 4; Knowledge (Arcana): 3; Knowledge (The Planes): 4; {+1} Knowledge (Religion): 4; {+1} Knowledge (History): 2; Martial Lore: 2; {+2} Spellcraft: 5; Soul Binding +1
5th Anima Mage 2 3 2 0 6 5: Balance: 4; {+1} Concentration: 8; Jump: 4; Intimidate: 4; Knowledge (Arcana): 3; Knowledge (The Planes): 4; {+1} Knowledge (Religion): 5; Knowledge (History): 2; Martial Lore: 2; {+3} Spellcraft: 8; Exploit Vestige, Soul Binding +2
6th Anima Mage 3 3 3 1 6 5: Balance: 4; {+1} Concentration: 9; Jump: 4; Intimidate: 4; {+1} Knowledge (Arcana): 4; Knowledge (The Planes): 4; Knowledge (Religion): 5; Knowledge (History): 2; Martial Lore: 2; {+1} Spellcraft: 9; {+2} Collector of Stories; Arcane Disciple (War Domain) Soul Binding +3, Vestigial Awareness
7th Anima Mage 4 4 3 1 7 5: {+2 CC} Balance: 5; {+1} Concentration: 10; Jump: 4; Intimidate: 4; {+1} Knowledge (Arcana): 5; Knowledge (The Planes): 4; Knowledge (Religion): 5; Knowledge (History): 2; Martial Lore: 2; {+1} Spellcraft: 10; Collector of Stories; Soul Binding +4
8th Anima Mage 5 4 3 1 7 5: Balance: 5; {+1} Concentration: 11; Jump: 4; Intimidate: 4; {+1} Knowledge (Arcana): 6; {+2} Knowledge (The Planes): 6; Knowledge (Religion): 5; Knowledge (History): 2; Martial Lore: 2; {+1} Spellcraft: 11; Collector of Stories; Soul Binding +5, Vestige Metamagic (1/day)
9th Anima Mage 6 5 4 2 8 6: Balance: 5; {+1} Concentration: 12; Jump: 4; Intimidate: 4; {+1} Knowledge (Arcana): 7; {+3} Knowledge (The Planes): 9; Knowledge (Religion): 5; Knowledge (History): 2; Martial Lore: 2; {+1} Spellcraft: 12; Collector of Stories; Persistent Spell Soul Binding +6
10th Jade Phoenix Mage 1 6 6 2 8 6: Balance: 5; {+1} Concentration: 13; {+1} Jump: 5; Intimidate: 4; Knowledge (Arcana): 7; Knowledge (The Planes): 9; Knowledge (Religion): 5; Knowledge (History): 2; Martial Lore: 2; {+4} Tumble: 4; Spellcraft: 12; Collector of Stories; Arcane Wrath, Rite of Waking
11th Jade Phoenix Mage 2 7 7 2 8 6: Balance: 5; {+1} Concentration: 14; Jump: 5; Intimidate: 4; Knowledge (Arcana): 7; Knowledge (The Planes): 9; Knowledge (Religion): 5; Knowledge (History): 2; Martial Lore: 2; {+3} Tumble: 7; Spellcraft: 12; {+2} Nimble Charge, Collector of Stories; Mystic Phoenix Stance
12th Jade Phoenix Mage 3 8 7 3 9 6: Balance: 5; {+1} Concentration: 15; Jump: 5; Intimidate: 4; {+1} Knowledge (Arcana): 8; Knowledge (The Planes): 9; Knowledge (Religion): 5; Knowledge (History): 2; Martial Lore: 2; {+2} Tumble: 9; Spellcraft: 12; {+2} Nimble Stand, Nimble Charge, Collector of Stories; Knowledge Devotion (Knowledge: Arcana permanent class skill) -
13th Jade Phoenix Mage 4 9 8 3 9 6: Balance: 5; {+1} Concentration: 16; Jump: 5; Intimidate: 4; Knowledge (Arcana): 8; Knowledge (The Planes): 9; Knowledge (Religion): 5; Knowledge (History): 2; Martial Lore: 2; {+3} Tumble: 12; Spellcraft: 12; {+2} Swift Concentration, Nimble Stand, Nimble Charge, Collector of Stories; Empowering Strike
14th Jade Phoenix Mage 5 10 8 3 9 6: Balance: 5; {+1} Concentration: 17; Jump: 5; Intimidate: 4; {+1} Knowledge (Arcana): 9; Knowledge (The Planes): 9; Knowledge (Religion): 5; Knowledge (History): 2; Martial Lore: 2; {+2} Tumble: 14; Spellcraft: 12; {+2} Twisted Charge, Swift Concentration, Nimble Stand, Nimble Charge, Collector of Stories; -
15th Jade Phoenix Mage 6 11 9 4 10 6: Balance: 5; {+1} Concentration: 18; Jump: 5; Intimidate: 4; {+1} Knowledge (Arcana): 10; Knowledge (The Planes): 9; Knowledge (Religion): 5; Knowledge (History): 2; Martial Lore: 2; {+2} Tumble: 16; Spellcraft: 12; {+2} Acrobatic Backstab, Twisted Charge, Swift Concentration, Nimble Stand, Nimble Charge, Collector of Stories; Practiced Spellcaster (Wu Jen) Firebird Stance, Jade Phoenix Master
16th Jade Phoenix Mage 7 12 9 4 10 7: Balance: 5; {+1} Concentration: 19; Jump: 5; Intimidate: 4; {+1} Knowledge (Arcana): 11; Knowledge (The Planes): 9; Knowledge (Religion): 5; Knowledge (History): 2; Martial Lore: 2; {+3} Tumble: 19; {+2 CC} Spellcraft: 13; Acrobatic Backstab, Twisted Charge, Swift Concentration, Nimble Stand, Nimble Charge, Collector of Stories; -
17th Jade Phoenix Mage 8 13 10 4 10 7: Balance: 5; {+1} Concentration: 20; Jump: 5; Intimidate: 4; {+3} Knowledge (Arcana): 14; Knowledge (The Planes): 9; Knowledge (Religion): 5; Knowledge (History): 2; Martial Lore: 2; {+1} Tumble: 20; {+2 CC} Spellcraft: 14; Acrobatic Backstab, Twisted Charge, Swift Concentration, Nimble Stand, Nimble Charge, Collector of Stories; Quickening Strike
18th Jade Phoenix Mage 9 14 10 5 11 7: Balance: 5; {+1} Concentration: 21; Jump: 5; Intimidate: 4; {+3} Knowledge (Arcana): 17; Knowledge (The Planes): 9; Knowledge (Religion): 5; Knowledge (History): 2; Martial Lore: 2; {+1} Tumble: 21; {+2 CC} Spellcraft: 15; Acrobatic Backstab, Twisted Charge, Swift Concentration, Nimble Stand, Nimble Charge, Collector of Stories; Power Attack -
19th Jade Phoenix Mage 10 15 11 5 11 7: Balance: 5; {+1} Concentration: 22; Jump: 5; Intimidate: 4; {+3} Knowledge (Arcana): 20; Knowledge (The Planes): 9; Knowledge (Religion): 5; Knowledge (History): 2; Martial Lore: 2; {+1} Tumble: 22; {+2 CC} Spellcraft: 16; Acrobatic Backstab, Twisted Charge, Swift Concentration, Nimble Stand, Nimble Charge, Collector of Stories; Emerald Immolation
20th Anima Mage 7 15 11 5 11 7: Balance: 5; {+1} Concentration: 23; Jump: 5; Intimidate: 4; {+1} Knowledge (Arcana): 21; {+4} Knowledge (The Planes): 13; Knowledge (Religion): 5; Knowledge (History): 2; Martial Lore: 2; Tumble: 22; {+1} Spellcraft: 17; Acrobatic Backstab, Twisted Charge, Swift Concentration, Nimble Stand, Nimble Charge, Collector of Stories; Soul Binding +7, Vestige Metamagic (2/day)

*Technically, Asuka only ever loses the benefit of her Bind Vestige feat, not the Improved Bind Vestige feat. As such, from character levels 4-5, she could gain the full benefit of any 1st level vestige or stick with the single granted power of a 2nd or 3rd level vestige. From character levels 6-7, she gains the full benefit of any 2nd level and under vestiges she binds, and it's only after she hits Anima Mage 5 that her Soul Binding surpasses the abilities granted by Improved Bind Vestige.




Level Class 0th 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th extra
1st Crusader 1 Improved Bind Vestige (limited EBL 5, up to 1 3rd level Vestige)
2nd Wu Jen 1 3 1
3rd Wu Jen 2 4 2
4th Anima Mage 1 4 2 1 Soul Binding 1 ("Real" EBL 1, 1 vestige)*
5th Anima Mage 2 4 3 2 Soul Binding 2
6th Anima Mage 3 4 3 2 Soul Binding 3 (2nd level Vestiges)
7th Anima Mage 4 4 3 3 1 Soul Binding 4
8th Anima Mage 5 4 4 3 2 Soul Binding 5 (3rd level Vestiges)
9th Anima Mage 6 4 4 3 2 1 Soul Binding 6
10th Jade Phoenix Mage 1 4 4 4 2 1
11th Jade Phoenix Mage 2 4 4 4 3 2 1
12th Jade Phoenix Mage 3 4 4 4 3 2 2
13th Jade Phoenix Mage 4 4 4 4 3 3 2 1
14th Jade Phoenix Mage 5 4 4 4 4 3 3 2
15th Jade Phoenix Mage 6 4 4 4 4 3 3 2
16th Jade Phoenix Mage 7 4 4 4 4 3 3 2 1
17th Jade Phoenix Mage 8 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 2
18th Jade Phoenix Mage 9 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 2 1
19th Jade Phoenix Mage 10 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 2
20th Anima Mage 7 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 2 1 Soul Binding 7 (4th level Vestiges)




Class 0th 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th
Wu Jen 1 All Wu Jen Cantrips Shield, Magic Weapon, Obscuring Mist, Scales of the Lizard, Jump
Wu Jen 2 - Silent Image, Animate Wood
Anima Mage 1 - - Torrent of Tears, Blur
Anima Mage 2 - - Heart of Air, Rope Trick
Anima Mage 3 - - - Haste, Greater Magic Weapon
Anima Mage 4 - - - Heart of Water, Magic Vestment (AD)
Anima Mage 5 - - - - Rain of Spines, Heart of Earth
Anima Mage 6 - - - - Divine Power (AD), Greater Invisibility
Jade Phoenix Mage 1 - - - - -
Jade Phoenix Mage 2 - - - - - Metal Skin, Heart of Fire
Jade Phoenix Mage 3 - - - - - Sword of Deception, Teleport
Jade Phoenix Mage 4 - - - - - - True Seeing, Spirit Binding
Jade Phoenix Mage 5 - - - - - - Greater Dispel Magic, Eyes of the Oracle
Jade Phoenix Mage 6 - - - - - - -
Jade Phoenix Mage 7 - - - - - - - Giant Size, Body Outside Body
Jade Phoenix Mage 8 - - - - - - - Arcane Spellsurge, Adamantine Wings
Jade Phoenix Mage 9 - - - - - - - - Minute Form, Mind Blank
Jade Phoenix Mage 10 - - - - - - - - Greater Spirit Binding, Polymorph Any Object
Anima Mage 7 - - - - - - - - - Transcend Mortality, Time Stop




Level Class Initiator Level** Maneuvers Known Maneuvers Readied Stances Known
1st Crusader 1 1 (5) Crusader's Strike, Vanguard Strike, Douse the Flames, Charging Minotaur, Stone Bones 5 (2) (1) Martial Spirit
2nd Wu Jen 1 1.5 - - -
3rd Wu Jen 2 2 - - -
4th Anima Mage 1 2.5 - - -
5th Anima Mage 2 3 - - -
6th Anima Mage 3 3.5 - - -
7th Anima Mage 4 4 - - -
8th Anima Mage 5 4.5 - - -
9th Anima Mage 6 5 - - -
10th Jade Phoenix Mage 1 6 (+1) Defensive Rebuke - -
11th Jade Phoenix Mage 2 7 - - -
12th Jade Phoenix Mage 3 8 (+1) Divine Surge 6 (3) -
13th Jade Phoenix Mage 4 9 - - -
14th Jade Phoenix Mage 5 10 (+1) Daunting Strike - (+1) Thicket of Blades
15th Jade Phoenix Mage 6 11 - 7 (4) -
16th Jade Phoenix Mage 7 12 (+1) Rallying Strike - -
17th Jade Phoenix Mage 8 13 - - -
18th Jade Phoenix Mage 9 14 (+1) Inferno Blade 8 (5) -
19th Jade Phoenix Mage 10 15 - - -
20th Anima Mage 7 15.5 - - -

**Tome of Battle was notoriously poor in some of its wording. I have opted for the ruling that prestige classes without any maneuver progression advance Initiator Level at 0.5 IL per prestige class level, just like all other non-initiator class levels do. In the event that the DM rules otherwise - i.e., all prestige classes grant full IL progression, then use the table below for maneuvers learned from JPM. The choices change a little bit - she drops Defensive Rebuke for an earlier Divine Surge, Castigating Strike replaces Daunting Strike and does pretty much the same thing (really, it's just extra damage as her Devoted Spirit save DCs will be low), Inferno Blade comes online two levels earlier, and instead of Rallying Strike, Asuka is able to take the capstone that is Whack-Und-Heal Strike of Righteous Vitality.alt text

Level Class Initiator Level** Maneuvers Known Maneuvers Readied Stances Known
10th Jade Phoenix Mage 1 9 (+1) Divine Surge - -
11th Jade Phoenix Mage 2 10 - - -
12th Jade Phoenix Mage 3 11 (+1) Rallying Strike 6 (3) -
13th Jade Phoenix Mage 4 12 - - -
14th Jade Phoenix Mage 5 13 (+1) Castigating Strike - (+1) Thicket of Blades
15th Jade Phoenix Mage 6 14 - 7 (4) -
16th Jade Phoenix Mage 7 15 (+1) Inferno Blade - -
17th Jade Phoenix Mage 8 16 - - -
18th Jade Phoenix Mage 9 17 (+1)Strike of Righteous Vitality 8 (5) -
19th Jade Phoenix Mage 10 18 - - -
20th Anima Mage 7 19 - - -





Asuka begins as a Crusader of Zuokon. Level 1 is always the harshest: HP are low, and bonuses are limited to nonexistent. Life is tough, but Asuka can buy some survivability with the +1 full plate and effective Binder Level 5 that Savnok and her feats grant her. As a Crusader, her maneuvers and stances are focused primarily on defense - either by healing allies, giving her DR, giving bonuses on attacks, or preventing attacks of opportunity.
The next four levels are rough. Asuka dives head first into studying additional spirits and the arcane as a wu jen. Unfortunately, wu jens lack staples like Mage Armor, so her AC will be low at this point of her career. She's also nearly feat-less entering Anima Mage, as three out of her four feats right now are simply there to open the door to the other side as fast as possible. At least Sanctum Spell remains useful in being able to squeeze in 4th and 7th level spells under the level limit for lesser and normal metamagic rods, respectively. Bind Vestige and Improved Bind Vestige, though? Those may as well be as real as a vestige without a Binder.

She also even promises offerings to the spirits daily, as her one and only taboo. In peeling back the mysteries of the spirits she can call, she eventually turns to exploitation rather than simply reverence. She still offers them the experience of existence, but is now merging her studies in a path to self improvement.

As Savnok's armor plays poorly with arcane spells, Asuka spends levels 2-5 binding one of either Naberius (for ability score healing, disguises, and otherwise untrained skills), Focular for the Aura of Sadness, or Karsus's Senses for the detect magic-esque ability.
Anima Mage 2 gives us the option to risk a penalty and loss of a Vestige ability for an extra spell slot. The check will be somewhere between difficult to impossible, depending on the vestige, but good options would be vestiges like Aym (effective DC 20 after the Exploit Vestige penalty, give up Medium Armor Proficiency as she already has that via Crusader), Leraje (effective DC 20, lose Weapon Proficiency), or Ronove (effective DC 20, lose Sprint). Higher level Vestiges will have higher binding DCs, but the worst case is attempting to exploit Karsus (effective DC 30). Implements of Binding and anything that boosts either Charisma or Charisma checks can help, but those are secondary concerns behind boosting other stats and grabbing other gear.

Spells are focused mostly on either keeping herself alive, forcing debuffs, or just general survival abilities like Rope Trick at this point.


By level 10, Asuka is coming into her own. Anima Mage's poor BAB hurts, but Arcane Disciple helps cover that weakness somewhat when she picks up Divine Power at ECL 8. Conveniently, Persistent Spell follows at ECL 9, which is where her Vestige Metamagic will be applied for the foreseeable future. Although Divine Power is easily the single best spell on the War Domain list, Magic Vestment lasts for hours at a time and helps increase her meager AC. Eventually, she would want to acquire some combination of armor material (Blended Quartz, Elven Darkleaf, Entropium, or Mithril), crafting modifications (Feycraft or Githcraft), a thistledown suit, and of course the Twilight enhancement to help negate arcane spell failure. A Mithril chain shirt with both thistledown padding and either fey or githcraft is certainly more expensive than casting Mage Armor, but it's at least an option at her disposal for Armor bonuses to AC due to her non-good alignment. As she starts to pick up ranks in Tumble, she'll likely stick some variety of Mithril medium-made-light armor anyhow.
Spells stick to the self-improvement theme. GMW saves on weapon costs. The Heart of [Element] line gives something akin to Light Fortification when at least two are active. Plus, Heart of Water gives a contingent freedom of movement effect, and Heart of Stone is a cost-free Stoneskin on demand. Haste is a classic "beat more sticks" spell, even though it's at cross purposes with martial strikes. But it is a spell that will help us in the future. :smallwink:

Level 10 is also when Asuka turns back to the discipline of martial study. She picks up a 6th maneuver with her first level in Jade Phoenix Mage, a knock-off Arcane Strike ability, and some small bonuses to knowledge skills. Really, there's some benefit to Arcane Wrath over Arcane Strike. The flat +4 to-hit bonus means it is better at converting low level slots into damage than Arcane Strike. It's 1d10 versus 1d4 bonus damage per spell level, but the downside is that only applies to one attack rather than the entire routine. Generally, it works better with a lower to-hit iterative attack, against higher AC enemies, and the single attack strikes common among Devoted Spirit maneuvers.

Her effective binding level is also now high enough that even Improved Binding is supplemented. She can bind up to third level vestiges, but with only a +6 on her binding check before items, she's still unlikely to make use of Exploit Vestige. Dahlver-Nar's natural armor bonus and shield self ability grant some additional protection. The Maddening Moan likely will be saved against due to her low CHA bonus, but might be worth it against the right opponents or when all else fails. Malphas' raven can help scout, and Focalor's breath and aura work well together. Considering Asuka wants to be in melee, Focalor's Aura probably gives the biggest benefit to allied spellcasters (Asuka herself doesn't have too many Save or X spells by virtue of class levels, but she can always spend down time to buy additional ones).

She also picks up Collector of Stories, mainly to stretch her limited Knowledge ranks, as Rite of Walking removes the usual restriction on using Knowledge skills untrained. Sure, it's only to identify monsters, but that's usually what happens when you roll Knowledge in combat anyhow. (This is also the point where I'll grumble about the "errata" for Tome of Battle - mainly, the fact that JPM requires two different Knowledge skills and gives zero in all its class levels. Even if it feels like an obvious oversight, I must abide by the rules of the contest.)


These levels are all about JPM and (re-)learning the martial ways. Mystic Phoenix Stance helps a little bit with the lost caster levels. Martial Spirit is the only other stance Asuka has, so +1 CL, a dodge bonus to AC, and potentially anywhere from 2-12 DR/evil all help with survivability. Realistically, she'll probably only chuck a 1st or maybe 2nd level spell into the stance as spell slots are rather limited for wu jens. Knowledge Devotion is a late addition, but helps make up for the lost BAB and damage from a relatively low strength scorewhen Divine Power is down. If the DM or Judges rule that Collector of Stories applies in the same non-action as Knowledge Devotion's check, then she's at a minimum of +11 on any Knowledge check and higher for anything that uses one of Arcana, The Planes, or Religion. Most likely, that translates into a +2 or +3 bonus to-hit and damage from the feat.

They make for awkward weapons, but the Fire Wings spell is 1) the only low level spell that allows for flight without resorting to polymorph or one of its derivatives and 2) one of the few spells that would benefit from Empowering Strike that Asuka's likely to have in her repertoire. The opening text of Spell Compendium gives a list of additional spells that should or could be added to the Wu Jen list, but that will vary DM to DM and Judge to Judge. Still, the Combust spell meets the restrictions presented. At 1d8/CL on a touch, it's a decent use of Empowering Strike. It's a 4th level spell, but Rain of Spines is another option. The damage isn't anything to write home about, but pinning and entangling creatures for up to 1 round/level is a bonus.

She also finally completes the Heart of [Element] suite, giving full immunity to critical hits and sneak attack when all four spells are active. As she's just a humanoid, that also means most of the usual ways of bypassing this immunity are unavailable. Metal Skin replaces Scales of the Serpent as a defensive buff. The enhancement bonus is higher, but it does hurt touch AC. Sword of Deception can apply a stacking penalty to saving throws, which is useful for getting in either a Maddening Scream, a save or die spell like decapitating scarf, or a maneuver like Daunting Strike. Eyes of the Oracle and Greater Dispel Magic tie together nicely. EotO gives a "free" readied action for anything without using up a standard action. Taking that extra action ends the spell, but it means that Asuka doesn't have to worry about predicting an offensive (greater) dispel magic ruining her hours long buffs, turning off her items, or countering her own Save or X spells.

Practiced Spellcaster means Asuka can pull ahead on caster level, sitting at either HD+1 (or HD+2 for [fire]) spells with her two JPM stances before items. Thicket of Blades is added mostly by default. It does wonders for a tripper, but Asuka's more likely to get mileage out of one of her JPM stances at this point.She can now also sense other Jade Phoenix Mages and perform the Rite of Waking on them, thus continuing the cycle. Plus, it doesn't hurt to have friends.

At some point, Asuka will want to buy the ink and materials for the full magic circle against [alignment] spells to make use of Spirit Binding. Unfortunately, dimensional anchor is missing from the Wu Jen list, so options will be limited on what she can bind without assistance. Per the sidebar in Complete Divine, "spirits" include every single Elemental, Fey, and Undead creature by type, plus everything with the [spirit] subtype. This means everything from a lowly Nymph all the way up to whatever lich with fewer HD than her CL is at her beck and call (not that grabbing a centuries old, evil spellcaster is a good idea, of course). Spirit Binding caps out at 16 HD, which is enough for an Elemental Weird. Due to the bonus from Firebird Stance, Fire Weirds are preferred and available as soon as ECL 14. They also have access to 9th level sorcerer spells and are expert diviners in their own right. They're powerful creatures, but they give Asuka a way to access Embrace/Shun the Dark Chaos without going through too many hoops.

Each Weird has a different area of expertise - direction, death, wealth, hope, information, or healing. Serendipitously, Fire Weirds deal in hope and lost knowledge, so seeking them out for regaining lost memories (shuffling away the now useless Binding and Improved Binding feats) is at least on-theme for a person who has been reincarnated at least once before. While not presented in the build stub above due to the cheese that is retraining away two feats without the usual restrictions, this means Asuka could access Practiced Spellcaster and Power Attack as soon as ECL 14 (CL 12+2 for a Fire Weird only). In their place, Martial Study (White Raven Tactics) and Extra Granted Maneuver are both excellent additions to take at 15 and 18. Another option is to take Improved Binding for access to 4th level vestiges like Buer, Tenebrous, Agares, or Arete before ECL 20 (although going this route would mean either undergoing the shuffle a third time or switching the last level to something like Spellsword instead).

Asuka finishes JPM before ending with Anima Mage 7 as a capstone. The second use of Vestige Metamagic in a day gives her more options for her otherwise short term buffs. Quickening Strike helps with her action economy. Speaking of action economy, she now has something better than Divine Power to persist: Body Outside Body, arguably the Wu Jen spell. The clones can't cast spells, but they have all of the class features, feats, and skills Asuka possesses. Normally BOBs don't last long enough to be able to bind vestiges or ready maneuvers, but Persistent Spell solves that little issue. If given time to rest - say, by casting this at night for extra eyes to stand watch, they arguably could rest and prepare spell slots even though casting them is not an option. This would allow the BOBs to use Arcane Wrath, gain DR with Mystic Phoenix Stance, or a little extra fire damage with Firebird Stance. She also gains additional BOBs with higher caster levels, but she's guaranteed at least 3 at this point. Items can bump that up, but the 4th (and eventually 5th) won't be available without items. All of this together makes level 16 Asuka's sweet spot.

She only has one 7th level slot before factoring in high Intelligence. Even just a +4 item is enough for a second 7th level spell at ECL 16, but that slot goes to the other Wu Jen allstar: Giant Size (https://c.tenor.com/IVCLL0IWo_cAAAAC/giant-woman-opal.gif). She's not likely to persist this spell, but it does give Thicket of Blades a chance to shine even with something like a glaive. After all, she can only persist one spell before level 20, so it may as well be one that gives her friends. Plus, her friends can have friends of their own: so instead of worrying about binding Focalor, Karus, Dahlver-Nar, or Paimon, she can bind one and the BOBs each one of the others. They're also full initiators in their own right, so Asuka is likely to have more than the usual 4 or 5 granted maneuvers than a regular crusader. She's still not guaranteed to have every maneuver readied granted to her, but each BOB increases the odds that at least one of her has Inferno Blade or Rallying Strike available.
Arcane Spellsurge and Adamantine Wings are ways to turn up the action economy and attack routine without the clones, but they represent 4th and 5th place for 7th level spell slots.

With Buer bound, one of them can even fully heal each other up to Asuka's normal maximum HP. (Arguably, they could strike each other for nonlethal damage with Martial Spirit Stance up, too. It just would take longer.) The clones only have +15 BAB, so they're not going to have a fourth iterative without haste. They'll likely be using various strikes, although Inferno Blade does represent a minimum of 3d6+14 damage per hit. Given that each clone has at least three attacks, the number of dice rolled can quickly approach Shadowrun levels.

Level 20 also gives us access to another fun little wu jen spell that doesn't make a whole lot of sense: Transcend Mortality. For the low, low price of dying at the end of the spell, Asuka gains a 50 resistance to each element, a bucket load of immunities, massive save bonuses, SR, and even some DR (that's sadly bypassed by epic). Luckily, Emerald Immolation is a once/week way to bypass all those nasty side effects. It's a nice little "Oh, #&$%!" button to hit when the going gets tough. Eyes of the Oracle can even be used to ready the action to fire it off to prevent a disjunction or other dispel magic from ending Transcend Mortality earlier. What's better, the "once/week" is more like a "1-8/day" one as each BOB will have access to the ability as well. They won't be able to return after using the ability considering it does kill them, so it's still a tactic of last resort.


Tome of Battle - Crusader (9-11), Jade Phoenix Mage (114-116), Inferno Blade (54-55), Castigating Strike (57-58), Crusader's Strike/Daunting Strike/Defensive Rebuke/Divine Surge (58), Martial Spirit/Rallying Strike (60), Strike of Righteous Vitality (60-61), Thicket of Blades (61), Vanguard Strike (62), Charging Minotaur (81-82), Stone Bones (84), Douse the Flames (91), Extra Granted Maneuver (30), Martial Study (31-32), White Raven Tactics (94)
Complete Arcane - Wu Jen (15-16), Minute Form (115), (Greater/Lesser) Spirit Binding (123), Giant Size (109-110), Body Outside Body (100), Scales of the Lizard (121), Fire Wings (107), Fire Breath (106), Decapitating Scarf (102)
Dead Levels 2 (https://web.archive.org/web/20161031215906/http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20070227x) - Intuitive Spirit Class FeatureTome of Magic - Anima Mage (50-51), Bind Vestige Feat (72-73), Improved Bind Vestige Feat (73), Vestige Level Table (18), Vestiges (19-49), Improved Binding (74), Implements of Binding (76)
Complete Warrior - Spellsword (referenced only), Arcane Strike (referenced only)
Complete Divine - Arcane Disciple (79), Zuoken (124), "What is a Spirit" Sidebar (17)
Complete Mage - Transcend Mortality (120-121), Adamantine Wings (95), Heart of Air (106), Heart of Water (107), Heart of Earth (106-107), Heart of Fire (107), Torrent of Tears (119, Rain of Spines (114)Dragon Magic - Arcane Spellsurge (64), Eyes of the Oracle (66-67), Wreath of Flames (75)
Spell Compendium - Sword of Deception (217-218, listed on Wu Jen spell list in Complete Arcane page 94), Animate Wood (12, listed on Wu Jen list in Complete Arcane page 91), Combust (50, which is recommended to be added to the Wu Jen list due to being [fire] per page 4)
Fiendish Codex I - Embrace the Dark Chaos (92), Shun the Dark Chaos (95)
DMGII - Feycraft (274), Githcraft (275)Races of the Wild - Thistledown Suit (168)Arms & Equipment Guide - Blended Quartz (18), Elven Darkleaf (19-20), Entropium (20)Magic Item Compendium - Twilight (15)Complete Scoundrel - Collector of Stories (85), Nimble Charge (87), Nimble Stand (88), Swift Concentration (90), Twisted Charge (90), Acrobatic Backstab (84)Monster Manual II - Elemental Weirds (90-91) Mind's Eye - Three Psionic Vestiges (https://web.archive.org/web/20070305072657/www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070119a)- Arete

[Thurbane]

https://i.redd.it/adz32lj3jd851.png
Yuiry was regular aglarondan. Half-elf as every third around, he ever since was a child knows - he will be a warrior! Brave and strong! True protector against thayvian-magicians. He even started this way, more than often do a lot of aglarondan half-elves, he truly want to be warrior, not just militia, but... All changes when his arcane gift awaked. Yuiry couldn't deal with the disgrace and fled from his home. Maybe it was a hasty decision and he has been able to find his place in the homeland, but what's happened happened.
Yuiry tried to fight with his gift, but he did know that to win you should know your enemy and you should know yourself. Well, there are some advantages when you fight with yourself. You need to research only one person. But, alas, this was a war that Yuiry wasn't meant to win. The more he learned, the more he became what he didn’t want to be - magician. Books, scrolls, potions. Furthermore, true magical items, armors, wands. He told himself: "It's all for deliverance!" Besides, his research required funding. Obsessed with the goal he reached out with some essences beyond... Vestiges, they named. An astonishingly precise name. Persons who are very long not exists, but their magic still is available... And at some point Yuiry realized: if he can't stop, can't be reconciled with his own nature, he risks becoming something the same. At best.
When Yuiry had an epiphany, he was already a very good artificer and after all, he liked this work. He made quality things that serve people. But best he was in armorsmithing. He has a secret. One of these "vestiges", named Savnok, can endow him with amazing armor. Magical by itself and always ideally shaped to his body's curves. Yuiry can create scrolls and wands of spell Alter Self and that means he can create perfect full plate armor for almost everybody within a single day! Even quicker, but why would they know that!
And that isn't all! With unlimited ability to create Savnok's armor Yuiry had inexhaustible source magical energy for his own crafts. With his skills and long enough time he can do almost every magical item.
But nothing lasts forever. Yuiry's peaceful life wasn't exception. Actually, he never forgot his martial background and when the ship he was sailing on was attacked by pirates, he did all right. His wands, his bow and arrows, his own magic, all this strike hated enemies... Yuiry remembered his childish dreams. Being a hero! Defeat the enemies! Well, magic can do this, too. Magic and arrows.

Abilities Initial 4, 8, 12, 16 20 Sum
STR 14 14
DEX 10 10
CON 14 14
INT 16 4 20
WIS 8 8
CHA 15 1 16

Level Class Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Reflex Save Will Save Skills Feats Class Features
1st Fighter-1 1 2 0 0 20: {+4} Craft (armor): 4; {+4} Craft (bow): 4; {+4} Intimidate: 4; {+4} Jump: 4; {+4 CC} Knowledge (arcana): 2; Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot (B) Bonus feat
2nd Artificer-1 1 2 0 2 7: {+1} Appraise: 1; {+1} Concentration: 1; Craft (armor): 4; Craft (bow): 4; Intimidate: 4; Jump: 4; {+1} Knowledge (arcana): 3; {+3} Spellcraft: 3; {+1} Use Magic Device: 1; Scribe Scroll (B) Artificer knowledge, artisan bonus, disable trap, item creation, Scribe Scroll
3rd Artificer-2 2 2 0 3 7: {+1} Appraise: 2; {+1} Concentration: 2; Craft (armor): 4; Craft (bow): 4; Intimidate: 4; Jump: 4; {+1} Knowledge (arcana): 4; {+2} Spellcraft: 5; {+2} Use Magic Device: 3; Bind Vestge, Brew Potion (B) Brew Potion
4th Artificer-3 3 3 1 3 7: {+1} Appraise: 3; {+1} Concentration: 3; Craft (armor): 4; Craft (bow): 4; Intimidate: 4; Jump: 4; {+1} Knowledge (arcana): 5; {+2} Spellcraft: 7; {+2} Use Magic Device: 5; Craft Wondorous Item (B) Craft Wondrous Item
5th Artificer-4 4 3 1 4 7: {+1} Appraise: 4; {+1} Concentration: 4; {+1} Craft (armor): 5; Craft (bow): 4; Intimidate: 4; Jump: 4; {+1} Knowledge (arcana): 6; {+1} Spellcraft: 8; {+2} Use Magic Device: 7; Extend Spell (B) Craft homunculus, bonus feat
6th Artificer-5 4 3 1 4 7: {+1} Appraise: 5; {+1} Concentration: 5; Craft (armor): 5; {+1} Craft (bow): 5; Intimidate: 4; Jump: 4; {+1} Knowledge (arcana): 7; {+1} Spellcraft: 9; {+2} Use Magic Device: 9; Improved Bind Vestge, Craft Magic Arms and Armor (B) Craft Magic Arms and Armor, retain essence
7th Artificer-6 5 4 2 5 6: {+1} Appraise: 6; {+1} Concentration: 6; Craft (armor): 5; {+1} Craft (bow): 6; Intimidate: 4; Jump: 4; {+1} Knowledge (arcana): 8; {+1} Spellcraft: 10; {+1} Use Magic Device: 10; Craft Wand (B) Craft Wand
8th Artificer-7 6 4 2 5 8: {+1} Appraise: 7; {+3} Concentration: 9; Craft (armor): 5; {+1} Craft (bow): 7; Intimidate: 4; Jump: 4; {+1} Knowledge (arcana): 9; {+1} Spellcraft: 11; {+1} Use Magic Device: 11; Metamagic spell trigger
9th Artificer-8 7 4 2 6 8: {+1} Appraise: 8; {+3} Concentration: 12; Craft (armor): 5; {+1} Craft (bow): 8; Intimidate: 4; Jump: 4; {+1} Knowledge (arcana): 10; {+1} Spellcraft: 12; {+1} Use Magic Device: 12; Weapon Focus (Longbow), Persistent Spell (B) Bonus feat
10th Warmage-1 7 4 2 8 6: Appraise: 8; {+1} Concentration: 13; {+1} Craft (armor): 6; Craft (bow): 8; {+1} Intimidate: 5; Jump: 4; {+1} Knowledge (arcana): 11; {+1} Spellcraft: 13; {+1 CC} Use Magic Device: 12.5; Armored mage (light), warmage edge
11th Arcane Archer-1 8 6 4 8 8: Appraise: 8; Concentration: 13; {+1} Craft (armor): 7; Craft (bow): 8; Intimidate: 5; Jump: 4; Knowledge (arcana): 11; Spellcraft: 13; {+7} Spot: 7; Use Magic Device: 12.5; Enhance arrow +1
12th Arcane Archer-2 9 7 4 8 8: Appraise: 8; Concentration: 13; {+1} Craft (armor): 8; Craft (bow): 8; Intimidate: 5; Jump: 4; Knowledge (arcana): 11; Spellcraft: 13; {+7} Spot: 14; Use Magic Device: 12.5; Sudden Maximize Imbue arrow
13th Warmage-2 10 7 4 9 6: Appraise: 8; {+1} Concentration: 14; Craft (armor): 8; Craft (bow): 8; {+1} Intimidate: 6; Jump: 4; {+1} Knowledge (arcana): 12; {+1} Spellcraft: 14; Spot: 14; {+2 CC} Use Magic Device: 13.5;
14th Warmage-3 10 8 5 9 6: Appraise: 8; {+1} Concentration: 15; Craft (armor): 8; Craft (bow): 8; {+1} Intimidate: 7; Jump: 4; {+1} Knowledge (arcana): 13; {+1} Spellcraft: 15; Spot: 14; {+2 CC} Use Magic Device: 14.5; Advanced learning (Guiding Light)
15th Warmage-4 11 8 5 10 6: Appraise: 8; {+1} Concentration: 16; Craft (armor): 8; Craft (bow): 8; {+1} Intimidate: 8; Jump: 4; {+1} Knowledge (arcana): 14; {+1} Spellcraft: 16; Spot: 14; {+2 CC} Use Magic Device: 15.5; Sculpt Spell
16th Warmage-5 11 8 5 10 7: Appraise: 8; {+1} Concentration: 17; Craft (armor): 8; Craft (bow): 8; {+1} Intimidate: 9; Jump: 4; {+1} Knowledge (arcana): 15; {+2} Spellcraft: 18; Spot: 14; {+2 CC} Use Magic Device: 16.5;
17th Warmage-6 12 9 6 11 7: Appraise: 8; {+1} Concentration: 18; Craft (armor): 8; Craft (bow): 8; {+1} Intimidate: 10; Jump: 4; {+1} Knowledge (arcana): 16; {+2} Spellcraft: 20; Spot: 14; {+2 CC} Use Magic Device: 17.5; Advanced learning (Resonating Bolt)
18th Warmage-7 12 9 6 11 7: Appraise: 8; {+1} Concentration: 19; Craft (armor): 8; Craft (bow): 8; {+1} Intimidate: 11; Jump: 4; {+1} Knowledge (arcana): 17; {+1} Spellcraft: 21; Spot: 14; {+3 CC} Use Magic Device: 19; Battle Caster, Sudden Empower (B) Sudden Empower
19th Warmage-8 13 9 6 12 7: Appraise: 8; {+2} Concentration: 21; Craft (armor): 8; Craft (bow): 8; {+1} Intimidate: 12; Jump: 4; {+1} Knowledge (arcana): 18; {+1} Spellcraft: 22; Spot: 14; {+2 CC} Use Magic Device: 20; Armored mage (medium)
20th Artificer-9 13 10 7 12 9: Appraise: 8; {+2} Concentration: 23; {+1} Craft (armor): 9; {+1} Craft (bow): 9; Intimidate: 12; Jump: 4; {+1} Knowledge (arcana): 19; {+1} Spellcraft: 23; Spot: 14; {+3} Use Magic Device: 23; Craft Rod (B) Craft Rod

Level Class 1st 2nd 3rd 4th
2nd Artificer-1 2
3rd Artificer-2 3
4th Artificer-3 3 1
5th Artificer-4 3 2
6th Artificer-5 3 3 1
7th Artificer-6 3 3 2
8th Artificer-7 3 3 2
9th Artificer-8 3 3 3 1
20th Artificer-9 3 3 3 2
Level Class 0th 1st 2nd 3rd 4th
10th Warmage-1 5 3
13th Warmage-2 6 4
14th Warmage-3 6 5
15th Warmage-4 6 6 3
16th Warmage-5 6 6 4
17th Warmage-6 6 6 5 3
18th Warmage-7 6 6 6 4
19th Warmage-8 6 6 6 5 3

Yuiry is Fighter-1/Artificer-8 now. Metamagic spell trigger and Persistent Spell well known combo. And it is with the reason. Divine Power at least. And, Blessed Aim, Hunter's Eye, Swift Haste, Invisibility (and Greater version), Hunter's Mercy*, True Strike* and many others. With various crafts Yuiry can provide for themselves anything that he needs. Bow, arrows, potions, improved Savnok's armor... By the way, Savnok's armors give infinite Craft Reserve via retain essence and infinite gold via, you know, selling.
I know, only first shot, by this means first shot in any fight without action waste.
Level of Warmage and two of Arcane Archer. Now Yuiry can imbue his arrows with any AoE spells. I don't see any obstacle to imbuing spells from wands (with wand chamber on the bow) and using metamagic spell trigger for improvement.
Well. Sudden metamagic definitely is metamagic. Next,

Using this ability expends additional charges from the item equal to the number of effective spell levels the metamagic feat would add to a spell.
All sudden metamagics don't add any levels to spell, so no additional charges are used. And Metamagic spell trigger don't count as using sudden feat time/day. Savings.

Another seven Warmage's levels and ninth level of Artificer. More spells, more feats, ability to freely cast in heavy armor. With Sculpt Spell and Sudden Empower Yuiry gets more offensive power. Craft Rod gives access to metamagic rods, if Yuiry needs something special.

Fighter - PHB
Artificer - Eberron Campaign Setting
Warmage - Complete Arcane
Arcane Archer - DMG
Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Scribe Scroll, Brew Potion, Craft Wondorous Item, Extend Spell, Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Craft Wand, Weapon Focus, Craft Rod - PHB
Bind Vestge, Improved Bind Vestge - ToM
Battle Caster, Persistent Spell, Sudden Maximize, Sculpt Spell, Sudden Empower - Complete Arcane
Hunter's Eye - PHB2
Blessed Aim, Swift Haste, Hunter's Mercy, Resonating Bolt, Guiding Light - Spell Compendium
Divine Power, Invisibility, Invisibility, Greater, True Strike, Alter Self - PHB

[Thurbane]

...and that's it. Just the two this round. Nice to see two such different approaches.

I knew this round had the potential to be contentious or unpopular, so happy to have multiple entries.

Now we await judging...

[loky1109]

I have some ideas more, but have no time and power to flesh them out:
1) Dahlver-Nar + Corrupt spells.
2) Bind Vestige + Bind Vestige, Improved + Improved Binding go to Tenebrous apostate.
3) Naberius’s skills + War Hulk.

[loky1109]

And the table!

Name Alignment / Race Class Levels
Asuka of Nine Souls (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25381461&postcount=33) TN Human Crusader 1/Wu Jen 2/Anima Mage 7/Jade Phoenix Mage 10
Yuiry (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25381463&postcount=34) ?? Half-Elf Fighter 1/Artificer 9/Warmage 8/Arcane Archer 2

[Thrice Dead Cat]

I have some ideas more, but have no time and power to flesh them out:
1) Dahlver-Nar + Corrupt spells.
2) Bind Vestige + Bind Vestige, Improved + Improved Binding go to Tenebrous apostate.
3) Naberius’s skills + War Hulk.

The one idea I had that I didn't finish was to go Sha'ir into Anima Mage and Tenebrous Apostate, grabbing a level or two of Knight of the Sacred Seal along the way for the martial weapon profiency. It would have had nearly full (16/20) Binder progression, but it felt unoriginal to me to use Sha'ir like that.

It would have taken two flaws, but I think it'd be possible to enter Anima Mage with only one base class level. The Elegance penalties would have hurt though, and I didn't bother to look at how difficult it would have been to qualify for the rest of the Binder Prestige Classes besides KotSS after Anima Mage.

[MornShine]

The idea I had-- mostly based on the assumption that prestige classes would not advance binding-- was to bind Aym for double damage versus objects, and then use Improved Sunder, Strength Domain, Combat Brute, and the 3.0 version of Improved Sunder* to build a surprisingly effective Sunder. Aside from that, though, I had no clue what classes or prestige classes to use, other than something mundane with a nice BAB, possibly picking up a feat that requires Improved Sunder and lets someone stun by using double weapons (there's two of them iirc?).

If we can discount the necessity of looting magic items from your enemies' corpses via fluff, then sundering is surprisingly effective especially against magic items, and even more so against non-weapon items.

*Improved Sunder (3.5) explicitly replaces Sunder (3.0), meaning that the Improved Sunder (3.0) isn't replaced with anything. It's just flat double damage to objects, which when doubled again (or x3) and bypassing hardness via Strength domain, is actually quite useful.

[Thurbane]

Sunder can be a decent tactic for NPCs/BBEG, since they generally don't care about loot the way PCs do.

Treants deal double damage against objects, which combined with Aym would be triple.

That would be a mean encounter to pull as a DM, especially for the martials in the party. :smallbiggrin:

[Malphegor]

So my ideas would have been using ilithid savant or factotum 20 to get the Binding ability by replicating/eating it, thus not being a Binder but having their ability… But it’d be so late in your build most likely you’d have to establish you’re working towards that the entire build. Tried to design a few things but nothing worked out.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Thinking about ideas for next round, would it be practical to shoot for one of the Initiator prestige classes but ban Crusader, Swordsage, and Warblade?

[H_H_F_F]

I still think Kalashtar with no psionic classes is cool.

[loky1109]

Arachne without drow and half-drow.
War Hulk with Knowledge Devotion.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Arachne without drow and half-drow.


Oh, this reminds me of the Fang of Lloth prestige class from Song & Silence. Not sure what else to should go with it, but it's just such an odd class.

[Beni-Kujaku]

Honestly‚ Hulk+Knowledge may be good‚ but then remove Goliath or Barbarian to remove the pretty well-known mountain rage trick

[Thurbane]

Any potential judges?

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Have we heard from H_H_F_F? I thought I saw a comment about him potentially judging this round?

[H_H_F_F]

Don't think I'll be able to do so any time soon. I'll update you if anything changes.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

I just saw Loky's review of the Social Distancing Edition of Junkyard Wars and one of the suggestions of having the contests review each other as an alternate way of scoring in the absence of a judge. Unfortunately, as there are only two entrants this round, it feels less like they'd be judging and more a question of "Who likes whose build better."

Does anyone have any other suggestions on how to wrap this round up?

[H_H_F_F]

I could realistically get to work on judgement for this round next weekend. Hopefully I could get it done within a few days, given the limited scope of this round.

[Beni-Kujaku]

I will be able to do it tomorrow or sunday. Let's have two judges

[Beni-Kujaku]

Time for the first judging!


Originality: 2
That build was overall pretty expected. Anima Mage to increase binding while fulfilling the contest prerequisites, Persistent to abuse Vestige Metamagic, then Wu Jen for its pretty well-known spells that work beautifully with Persist, and Jade Phoenix Mage for Emerald Immolation combined with Transcend Mortality. Each one flows into the next and there is nothing truly original here, or any unique interaction I can see. Of course, combining three power systems (arguably four with Arete) is pretty interesting, but nothing great.

Elegance: 3.5
I really like how clean the build is. What is an issue for Originality is a strength for Elegance. What is your character? She's a gish using Vestiges to buff himself and to improve her spells that also help buffing her, then she fights in melee with Crusader maneuvers. Focused, interconnected and with a clear goal.
That said. I very much doubt you qualify for Anima Mage. Sanctum Spell only allows the spell to have an effective one level higher if it is cast inside your sanctum, which means you can't cast 2nd level spells outside your sanctum, and since you'll most probably not level up while in your sanctum, you don't qualify for Anima Mage. I know you can discuss this interpretation, but I feel like it's worth a pretty big hit to Elegance. There are also a few things that you mentioned that made me raise an eyebrow, but not nearly as bad. First, Dark Chaos Feat Shuffle is really something that won't fly at many tables. Then, no you don't retain Improved Bind Vestige when you get your first level of Anima Mage. Improved Bind Vestige specifies it only applies to Vestiges you bind using Bind Vestige. Since you can't use Bind Vestige anymore, you can't use Improved either.

Power: 4.5
You are really strong. Having spells, maneuvers, basically full BAB, and eventually duplicates and consequence-free Transcend Mortality will make you breeze through most encounters. I acknowledge and like that most of your buffs are hour/level to retain an healthy action economy, and that you can also Bind Spirits in a pinch. You're also pretty versatile with your Wu Jen spells. I can't find any obvious weakness except the fact that your build really comes online at levels above 15, and arguably at level 20. Nice.

UoSI: 3.5
Honestly, The build doesn't make a great use of Vestiges. None of them are essential to the build, although Dahlver-Nar helps in combat. Even Buer that you mentioned in the end doesn't really synergize with BOB, you could do it alone. That said, you make a pretty good use of having the ability to bind vestiges, with exploit and Vestige Metamagic, which is pretty nice.

Conclusion: 13.5
A very expected build, but masterfully executed, with a final result that feels strong and enjoyable.




Originality: 4
Artificer is supposedly an overpowered, tier-1 caster-like, but honestly, I almost never see it used in optimization contests, most probably due to the sheer vestness of options it gives. Your combination of Savnok and Retain Essence is really unique and is really where the build shines. Arcane Archer is also pretty interesting.

Elegance: 3
Nothing particularly inelegant here. Call armor and retain essence is really a great combo, and it makes the build more elegant. Still, I feel like the second half of the build doesn't have much to do with the first part. 10 levels of warmage is a lot just to put spells on an arrow, and doesn't synergize much with artificer. Artificer and binder try to improve your ability to hit high AC with your arrows and survive in combat, while warmage and arcane archer seem to try to use already high-range destructive spells from afar, which is a bit redundant. Also, selling Savnok's armor is clearly not intended, considering the ability only mentions dispelling it by a full-round action. I expect you to be able to sell it exactly once before getting the banhammer.

Power: 2
I'm not a fan of how your character works. There is one main trick that gives you infinite XP for crafting, which is extremely good, and basically means you get double WBL. However, apart from that, you're playing using 4th level spells and infusions at level 20. You can't even craft items above 6th level. Even with persistent [any good persistable spell], you really don't have much in terms of dealing damage to your opponents. For an artificer with infinite versatility, that's not that good.

UoSI: 4
You don't need Martial Weapon Proficiency, since you don't care about the damage of your weapon, you just imbue your arrows with damaging spells. On the other hand, you, despite not increasing your binding ability above 5th level, you use it almost perfectly. That is great.

Conclusion: 13
An extremely unepected build, based on a single great combo, but without much of the rest of the build synergizing with it.



Sorry for the long wait. H_H_F_F, I'm also waiting for your judging, and for the cooks, I'm waiting for your disputes!

[loky1109]

Where is Thurbane?

Last Activity 2022-03-13
Does anybody have his contact information?

I hope he is okay.

[H_H_F_F]

11 days off is not unprecedented... I see no reason to assume he isn't okay.

Expect my judgement in the coming 72 hours or so, by the way.

[Thurbane]

Hey everyone.

11+ days off IS quite long for me, but my "IRL" is a bit messy and busy at the moment. Apologies for the delays.

All judging is appreciated, as always :smallsmile: Great stuff Beni-Kujaku, and look forward to yours H_H_F_F.

Anyhow, here's some disputes:


Thanks for judging Beni!


Originality: 4
Your high evaluation means a lot to me. Originality is the main part of challenge in my mind.


You don't need Martial Weapon Proficiency, since you don't care about the damage of your weapon, you just imbue your arrows with damaging spells.
You are not completely right. Arcane Archer's requirements includes "Weapon Focus (longbow or shortbow)" that has prerequisite "Proficiency with selected weapon" so I definitely need MWP. Maybe not all, but at least with any martial bow.


10 levels of warmage is a lot just to put spells on an arrow, and doesn't synergize much with artificer.
How about synergy between Metamagic spell trigger from Artificer and Sudden Empower feat from Warmage?


Even with persistent [any good persistable spell], you really don't have much in terms of dealing damage to your opponents. For an artificer with infinite versatility, that's not that good.
Yes, I see that and can't disagree. My first idea was something like changeling artificer-20 this all its glory (golems, army of homunculuses, persistent spells to full height, etc), but... he doesn't have and doesn't need martial weapons at all. After that there were warforged, neraphim, chameleon, militia feat (you can see traces of the last in the story) and somehow I ended up with Fighter-1/Warmage 8/Arcane Archer 2. Proficient in all martial weapons is very hard SI for me.


First, thank you for judging! I'll concede the point regarding Improved Bind Vestige. It's a relatively minor one, honestly.

I will push back on Sanctum Spell, however, as the ability is always there, even if it's under an asterisk. Otherwise, there would be rules issues regarding leveling up near the Spire of the Outlands, where ever ever levels of spells simply stop working. That, at least, is my rationale for why the feat works.

Also, as presented, Asuka does not replace any feats via the Chaos Shuffle. The option is presented more as a hypothetical and part of why she has the various Spirit Binding spells. In hindsight, the odds are exceedingly slim to ever go through that process, but it is an option as a full caster. Still, it is worth the Elegance penalty.

[H_H_F_F]

Apolofies for the delays on mine. It's coming pretty soon, but not tomorrow.

[Thurbane]

Apolofies for the delays on mine. It's coming pretty soon, but not tomorrow.

No stress, worth waiting a bit longer for second judging. :smallsmile:

[loky1109]

Beni, how about disputes? Did you forget about us? )

[Beni-Kujaku]

Yes I did‚ sorry‚ I'll do that tomorrow

[Beni-Kujaku]

You are not completely right. Arcane Archer's requirements includes "Weapon Focus (longbow or shortbow)" that has prerequisite "Proficiency with selected weapon" so I definitely need MWP. Maybe not all, but at least with any martial bow.
I am not right at all, I don't know what I was thinking, I think I believed shortbow was a simple weapon, so going from a 1d8 longbow to a 1d6 shortbow wasn't a problem. +0.25


How about synergy between Metamagic spell trigger from Artificer and Sudden Empower feat from Warmage?
I really don't think I agree with your interpretation that it doesn't count as the 1/day of the Sudden Empower, since you do "apply the metamagic feat", and it's mostly just two feats interacting with each other, more than two class features. I acknowledge what you were trying to do, but it's a bit too cheesy to be worth a bump in Elegance, and you're still almost not using the main feature of the Warmage, its spellcasting, except to cast 4th level spells when you're at level 19, which I don't consider "going well" with the rest of the build.



I will push back on Sanctum Spell, however, as the ability is always there, even if it's under an asterisk. Otherwise, there would be rules issues regarding leveling up near the Spire of the Outlands, where ever ever levels of spells simply stop working. That, at least, is my rationale for why the feat works.


Elegance is the measure of how probable it is that a DM will allow your character. You aren't able to cast a 2nd level spell for the vast majority of the day, and definitely not when it matters, which is when you level up. A nepharim able to cast Polymorph doesn't qualify for Corrupting Fiend because in some circumstances (when it polymorphs into an imp), it has the Evil subtype. Early-entry methods will be more accepted the more constantly you fulfill the prerequisites. And with sanctum spell, you definitely don't fulfill the prerequisites often. No change.

Also, I didn't make that clear, but the DCFS penalty is also a way to penalize all the problems that using Planar/Spirit Binding entails, with the possibility of the Spirit seeking vengeance, it breaking free of the circle, mostly by succeeding on its Charisma check (which Fey creatures have really high)...

[loky1109]

Updated table.

Name Alignment / Race Class Levels Chef Beni-Kujaku Judge 2 Total Place
Asuka of Nine Souls (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25381461&postcount=33) TN Human Crusader 1/Wu Jen 2/Anima Mage 7/Jade Phoenix Mage 10 13.50 13.50 1st
Yuiry (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25381463&postcount=34) ?? Half-Elf Fighter 1/Artificer 9/Warmage 8/Arcane Archer 2 13.25 13.25 2nd

[H_H_F_F]

Apologies for the disappearence, folks. Had a rough week or so, mentally. Doing better now, and I hope to be able to submit a full judgment ASAP.

[Thurbane]

Apologies for the disappearence, folks. Had a rough week or so, mentally. Doing better now, and I hope to be able to submit a full judgment ASAP.

No worries at all, glad to hear you are doing better.

[H_H_F_F]

Judgement is here!

Apologies for the delays, friends.

This was a hard set of limitations, and even though I had my fair share of criticism of your builds, I was still impressed with both - I didn't manage to come up with anything clever this round, and both of you did.

Originality:

One quote as the entirety of your fluff… My usual spiel includes a part about how I don't penalize short fluff, but this is really stretching the definition here. A slap on the wrist seems like a fine compromise. Though I've gotta say, the fact that she has to clarify that dwarves have souls, placing them between humans and trees, is hilarious to me.

Anima mage was the most obvious path, in my view. Doing it with a Wu-Jen gish instead of a straight casting wizard is a nice touch, and you're getting some credit for it, but that's still a very common chassis, and gishes are no surprise when martial weapon proficiency is an ingredient.

Mechanically, what we have here once we know what our chassis is? Well, human crusader- Wu Jen to JPM is not very innovative, and persistent spell shenanigans are extremely common – especially expected once I factor in the fact that Anima Mage was so obvious. You're also using some of the most common spells – though I have to give you credit for featuring transcend mortality. Persistent body poutside body with binding is clever, and will be talked about more later, as that is the heart of your build.

Overall, despite a couple of interesting glimpses, I'm sorry to say that I don't see this entry as very mechanically innovative.

Score: 1.65 points.


Power:

You were going for a high score in this category, and you've got it. It's hard to argue with the power of a fully-fledged prepared caster, 15 BAB gish or not. I know that the BAB issue is addressed, by the way, but you'll note that arcane disciple doesn't let you cast divine power more than once per day.

Your issue here is mainly your earlier levels, where a lot of what you do fails to come together, and your MADness deeply impacts your effectiveness. However, you've made choices which mostly mean you have survivability, if nothing else, at these earlier levels, so you're not getting penalized too hard here.

Overall, this build suffers from madness and is a late bloomer, but manages to get powerful enough fast enough to grant you an excellent score here.

Score: 4.75 points.


Elegance:

Everything seems properly sourced, and you don't suffer from multiclass penalties. Your table is relatively clean, though I'm also not thrilled with your level progression – Stagnating that last level of Anima Mage by 10 levels is a weird move, even if you wanted to advance JPM asap.

I'm ignoring DCFS, because your build really doesn't need it enough for you to want to take the huge associated penalty from me. You've got a couple of dead feats, which is a penalty here – even if I get how these dead feats are the only way to accomplish what you want in the context of this competition.

Qualification-wise, I've got a couple of issues:

Zuoken was a clever pick for a TN god with the war domain, so kudos on that. However, TN also happens to be the only alignment that crusaders aren't allowed to take. Your classes lock you into CN as your only viable alignment. I don't believe that messes up anything else you're doing, and there are definitely CN gods with the war domain – so you're just getting punished for having an illegal alignment/god, not for having an unfixable build.

Another qualification issue has to do with sanctum spell. It's like with people taking feats they only qualify for when they're polymorphed. It's a stretch, and really forces us to consider the RAW process of leveling up. I'm not calling this a DQ per se, but it's not good. "I leveled up in my sanctum" or "technically, under certain circumstances, I can cast second level spells" are both very hard pills to swallow in my view.

Score: 2.5 points.


Use of the Components:

On the upside: I really like the synergy between persisted body-outside-body and binding. It's a great way to utilize the potential versatility of binding in real time. Furthermore, it's actually far easier to achieve with anima mage rather than an actual binder. You've let the constraints of the competition lead you instead of limit you, and that's awesome.

I also genuinely liked going straight for Savnok as a way to flaunt unusually high AC for level 1, though that went away far too quickly IMO.

On the other hand: I feel that you've failed to make this trick essential to your build. You've featured binding as this cute trick that your JPM can do, not as a main ingredient. When I ask myself whether what was achieved was worth the resources, I say no. When I ask myself whether what was achieved is central to what you're doing, I say no. If I ask myself whether or not you fully committed to what you were doing, I say no.

I feel like you could've featured the stuff you're doing here far more impressively if you were to focus less on raw power and more on binding souls. Giving up getting to 9ths level spells, for example, and giving up on some of your gishness when divine power is off. If the big thing you came up with was binding many vestiges simultaneously, if that's your big selling point – why are you and yourselves binding the same number of vestiges a binder 20 would bind? Why are they fourth level vestiges? And even then, pushed until your very last level!

I can see a version of this build where you would've put your effort to the way a ton of different vestiges simultaneously. Even something basic like Wu-Jen 6/ Anima Mage 10/ Knight of the sacred seal 4 would've gotten you up to 8th level spells, and would allow you to simultaneously bind 15 vestiges going up to 7th level (with improved binding). With some finagling (arcane thesis on body outside body, or something) you could've gone KotSS 5 for 8th level vestiges without giving up on CL 20, and I'm sure you could've found better things to do with a couple of those Wu Jen levels. You could've featured multiple ways for this host of vestiges to work with each other, and your tactical breakdown would've focused on that.

Would this have been more powerful than your 9ths-casting gish? No, of course not. But it would've been about using soul binding, not just happening to have it.

Overall, this build featured some good work and one very interesting idea, but failed to deliver. It relegated the main ingredient to be a side-dish at best. At least you didn't let martial weapon proficiency get sidelined.

Score: 2 points.


Total Score: 10.9 points. Decent build, and shows some creative thought. Had the potential to do much more, if you were to lay off the standard optimization tricks and focus on what made Asuka unique.

Originality:

Sticking to the binding feats is a bold choice – it somewhat pays off here, but it means you'll probably have an uphill battle waiting for you in UotC.

Can't really say that a Half-Elf artificer/warmage with an arcane archer dip is anywhere near a common chassis, so that works out well for you. Thematically, describing Artificer out of all things as some magic power awakening and not as a learned scientific process doesn't really work in my view – not a penalty though, just a note.

You get a boost here for your usage of Savnok's armor, which is very non-obvious and will be discussed further in the coming categories. Archery as your fighting style of choice earns you a further boost. Other than what I've mentioned though, I can't really see anything too interesting here – no strange uses for your class features, no new unique interaction between warmage and artificer, no novel tactics. You're penalized for persistomancy cheese.

Overall, this is a creative build that lacked the details that would push it from good to great.

Score: 4 points.


Power:

First, let me clarify that you might feel like you're not getting recognized here for the cheesier aspects of your build. I'll direct you to the discussion in elegance for the discussion on those.

You start out good – archery may die fast, but at these early levels it's good, and artificer is a very solid base. Building on it with the warmage dip and arcane archer is fun, and I agree that you can combine imbue arrow with wand spells. Warmage also offers you a tiny bit of synergy through warmage edge, though it explicitly doesn't work with wand magic, so, nothing special.

However, it's the rest of your build that I just don't get. After level 12, you stop in your tracks. You stop advancing artificer for infusions and crafting CL, you don't choose some archer PRC… you just pile on levels of warmage. Now, I know what armor you've been wearing, so I know that you suffer from a huge arcane spell failure until level 19. You sink 7 more levels into a class that's half BaB (I know, persistomancy, but still… what if someone dispels you?), forces you to be MAD as hell (something that really hurts you throughout your career), has a d4 HD and gives you extremely little. Are you really going to be wasting your time on imbuing second level damage spells at level 16? It only pays off at level 19, and even then, "pays off" is only a nice increase in versatility and saving some money on wand charges. Your 20th level build is only marginally more powerful than your 12 level build. That's insane. I honestly believe that finishing out arcane archer would've been better for you, and that class is WORTHLESS after level 2.

This just feels like you knew you were doing metamagic spell trigger, retain essence and arcane archer, and realized you had 8 levels to go when you were done. This left you as an archer with stagnated infusions and crafting at levels where you should've become something more.

Overall, a triumphant first half of the build gives way to stagnation and decay.

Score: 2.75 points.


Elegance:

You suffer from multiclass penalties from level 14 onwards, which is unfortunate. Also, a slap on the wrist for having no listed alignment. Speaking of lacking information: I'm sorry to say that your tactical breakdown is straight up not good enough. I really appreciate the wand breakdown, but You have 17 levels of "casting" in this build, and you don't call out a single spell or infusion. And it's not like you got distracted by other stuff – you barely talk about anything there.

I usually penalize using cross-setting material. I was going to do so here – artificers don't belong in the far realms – but then I realized you didn't use any far realms material. You just put the story in Faerun. Huh. No penalty, but that's sort of a weird choice.

Now, let's talk about call armor. Here's where I'm at: It seems clear that retain essence should work, even if no one thought of or intended this interaction. Clearly, if your called armor gets rust-monstered or otherwise destroyed, you can summon a new one. Selling, on the other hand… well, just like dispensing called armors amongst the party, I don't think you've got as solid of a case. Intention aside, the language seems to strongly imply that you call a set of armor, and therefore can't call it again without dismissing it first. Your reading is also possible, but it's not iron clad.

Now, you could still sell the armor which would just disappear later, but I don't think that's what your war hero with no ranks in bluff is supposed to be doing, is it?

All this means that I have two options here: either telling you "Sorry, no infinite gold for you" and moving on, or treating this as an infinite money TO build, which would get penalized heavily for the incredible shakiness of the RAW on which it stands.

Overall, given your huge dependence on WBL with spending 7 charges of each of your wands at the beginning of every day, and access to all the great infusions your artificer levels have to offer, I would do that – if you would've taken normal metamagic feats instead of sudden ones. These are very limited, and I just don't at all buy your argument about metamagic spell trigger not counting as using the feat. Would you say that you aren't considered to be using persistent spell when you use metmagic spell trigger? IMO, of course you do.

The fact that you've gone this route with the explicit intent of "saving" also shows to me that you yourself don’t really buy the "infinite money and crafting exp" argument. Otherwise, what do you care about saving? You can make hundreds of wands, blast away.

I could judge this build as being able to do everything it wants to do. That would make it a TO build with a 0 in elegance that claims that using sudden metamagic doesn't count as using sudden metamagic and that all third level binders have infinite money. I think at this point you'd rather I just consider you to present a normal build that gets credit here for clever access to unlimited crafting exp.

Overall, if we're laying aside some of the claims you've made here, this entry suffers from a poorly executed submission, but manages to make up for some of the damage with its cleverness.

Score: 2 points.


Use of the Components:

You've done well with Savnok's armor here. Even if we don't assume all binders get infinite gold, your access to an infinite xp pool for crafting is very substantial. This ability is even more impressive when considered within the context of a party – they could pool resources so Yuiri crafts stuff for the entire party, at least until your CL stagnates too much for that.

Obviously, sticking to binding Savnok means you don't enjoy the flexibility true binding has to offer, but you've squeezed an impressive amount of usefulness from two feats. You're alsp a fully martial character, which is good at featuring the second component.

Overall, this build achieved a lot with a very little investment. Well done.

Score: 3.25 points.


Total Score: 12 points. Good idea at the heart of this build – elegant, simple, easy to achieve, consistently relevant throughout your career. I only wish you would've put more effort into the build itself once that core was decided on.

[loky1109]

Table incoming!

Name Alignment / Race Class Levels Chef Beni-Kujaku H_H_F_F Total Place
Asuka of Nine Souls (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25381461&postcount=33) TN Human Crusader 1/Wu Jen 2/Anima Mage 7/Jade Phoenix Mage 10 13.50 10.90 24.40 2nd
Yuiry (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25381463&postcount=34) ?? Half-Elf Fighter 1/Artificer 9/Warmage 8/Arcane Archer 2 13.25 12.00 25.25 1st

[Thurbane]

A dispute for H_H_F_F:


As always, thank you for judging! Even a single submission can have a lot of material to review, and I know this isn't the only competition you are involved in, H_H_F_F.

I have no comment on the originality, and am shameful to admit that I had intended to write more fluff that just... didn't go anywhere for Asuka or her story in my opinion. Although, that's neither here nor there. I also knew going Anima Mage wasn't going to get me much here, and working towards Body Outside Body and Giant Size would mean both a late-blooming build and one that's most obvious.

Transcend Mortality with Emerald Immolation was just too tempting to me to pass up, especially with the BOBs being able to bypass the usual once per week limitation. This does reinforce your later comment regarding Soul Binding being more of an appetizer and/or dessert instead of the main course, admittedly.

No real complaints regarding your power analysis. I thought I had addressed the 1/day limitation for the War Domain, but I clearly didn't. Arguably, an extended divine power is a different spell level (and different spell) than just divine power, but that doesn't help much as Asuka gains 5th level spell slots after her Persistent Spell comes online.

The delay in AM 7 was originally because I had my eyes set on 16 BAB, but figured at the last second a second use of Vestige Metamagic per day was a more worthwhile capstone. Again, that was me prioritizing maneuvers and clones over additional binding.

I had actually spent time looking for a valid deity that had both War, Knowledge, and fit the alignment restrictions... except that I missed the "no TN" restriction on Crusader. Shame on me there, as I'm fairly certain I also found a CN deity at one point that fit the bill. Arguably, there are no downsides to moving from CN->TN the first Wu Jen level, but that still feels like it warrants an Elegance penalty.

Sanctum Spell was a calculated risk. It was either that or shuffling the levels around to take Precious Apprentice, which has its own issues. Mostly because of a War Weaver I played years ago, I fell in love with Sanctum Spell for being able to squeeze in an extra level of spells beyond the limitations for those class features and even metamagic rods. As I mentioned in the other dispute, I see it more like leveling up near the Spire, where ever higher levels of spells stop working and become uncastable.

As for Use of Ingredients, Asuka could potentially have a Metamagic Rod of Still Spell around level 3. Unfortunately, caster level is still too low at this point to warrant pre-gaming with hour/level spells and then calling Savnok. Like all gishes, it's just an awkward point and in Asuka's career and I possibly could have done more to make it less awkward.

Thank you for the compliment on binding and BOB, too. It felt like too perfect a fit not to work towards. Again, I think I got lost in the woods a bit and chose to overemphasize Asuka's Initiator progression rather than her binding abilities.

Your KotSS also gives me ideas, but I became very focused on "Add multiple systems for BOBs to use" rather than "Be a better Binder" or "Use your best 1/5 rounds ability every round because you're really 3 kobolds in a trench coat 15 humans on the battlefield."

In hindsight, this also doesn't feel like much of a dispute.

Have confirmed no disputes from Yuiry.

[H_H_F_F]

Hey there, Asuka. Thanks for your thoughts.

I'm glad that you overall found my judgement fair. I also completely understand how you got to the point you did. Emerald Immolatio+BoB/Transcend mortality are cool tricks, and you got an originality boost for them. I completely get how you can get sidetracked from the componnents of the competition to follow a strong character, and it's far harder to catch in action than in hindsight. When I come up with an alternative, it's to showcase what your build could've been because it inspired me, not to say that it should've been obvious.

[metamagicked disciple spell] as a way to get around the limitations of arcane disciple is interesting, and seems like something you could elaborate on and feature more in another. In your case, however, extended divine power wouldn't work, I don't think. The wis score seems like it'd be an issue, and trying to dance in both weddings saying "it's not a 4th level spell, but it also is" seems like a bad idea. Of course, you'd have to feature such a trick in your breakdown to get credit for it here, but it's a cool idea, and one I think you should keep in mind for a future competition (if I don't steel it first :smalltongue:)

I get what you're saying in regard to sanctum spell- I just find it to be a stretch. If I thought it was straight up a disqualification, You probably would've gotten a 0 in elegance, for having a mistake that was unfixable in the context of your build. I don't think it's a DQ, but to me, it's still a shaky reading. It's, well, ugly. Inelegant. I empathize with your reasoning here, but I still think my penalty for it was within the expected margins for that.

No change in score.

[Thurbane]

Having confirmed there are no further disputes, time for the reveal:



Name
Alignment / Race
Class Levels
Chef
Beni-Kujaku
H_H_F_F
Total
Place


Asuka of Nine Souls (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25381461&postcount=33)
TN Human
Crusader 1/Wu Jen 2/Anima Mage 7/Jade Phoenix Mage 10
Thrice Dead Cat
13.50
10.90
24.40
2nd


Yuiry (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25381463&postcount=34)
?? Half-Elf
Fighter 1/Artificer 9/Warmage 8/Arcane Archer 2
loky1109
13.25
12.00
25.25
1st



Congrats to Thrice Dead Cat and loky1109.

I hope to have the new round up later today, or at least in next 24 hours.

[loky1109]

Thurbane, I think silver and gold colors should be exchanged. ))

Thank you for this round, it was interesting and hard in unexpected way.

Thank H_H_F_F and Beni for judging! There were only two entries, but it were complicate entries.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Thurbane, I think silver and gold colors should be exchanged. ))

I had the same thought. For a second, I thought I must have miscounted the totals.

Good job, loky. And again, thanks to everyone else who helps keep this competition going. I'm now sorely tempted to play something like H_H_F_F's suggestion in a high level campaign.

[H_H_F_F]

Good job, guys. Congratulations to both of you.

[Thurbane]

Thurbane, I think silver and gold colors should be exchanged. ))

That's what I get for posting at 6:30am while wrestling the cat to stop him from waking everyone else up! :smallbiggrin:

Fixed.

[Thurbane]

New comp is up: Junkyard Wars XXXVII - Bone Collector + Necropotent - ToB (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?644772)