Tempest Cleric Storm Sorc Help!

[Arsunick]

Hi everyone!

I am BRAND NEW to cleric. I am starting a new campaign just for fun and I want some tips on how to build this lightning style class!

Here is what I have so far:

Bortli, Tortle Tempest Cleric lvl 1:

19 str
10 Dex
16 Con
8 Int
17 Wis
14 Cha

Yes we rolled for stats and yes I rolled pretty well. So what I would like to do is merge Tempest and Storm Sorc together to play with lightning and also stay in melee swinging for the fences. I don't plan on being our team tank but I love my backstory/fantasy of the Tortle. I would love any and ALL recommendations on how to build this! There are tons of guides out there but I have no idea what is and what isn't outdated and you are all pros! Please help!

PS. No rush, we are starting campaign tomorrow night and at level 1. Whatever builds you guys can help with is going to be the framework for the future of Bortli!

[JLandan]

I had a similar character.
Bronze Dragonborn sailor background. Tempest Cleric 1 for 1st, Storm Sorcerer 1 for 2nd, then Tempest Cleric for 3rd+. Named Fragor Tonitrum (check Latin for meaning).

Only took one level dip in Sorc to get better lightning and thunder based spells, and more cantrips, like lightning lure and booming blade. Otherwise straight Cleric.

Feat wise, stick to ASI. maybe elemental adept. Maybe spell sniper or warcaster. If you're going to be a blaster, concentration won't be as rough.

[Christew]

Potentially unpopular opinion, but beyond thematic resonance, I just don't think this combo works particularly well. It is quite MAD (somewhat mitigated by your high rolls) and the combo of Destructive Wrath and Sorcerer blasting doesn't come online until pretty late.

That said, I think the best expression of Tempest Cleric with some Sorcerer is either:
A) Straight Tempest Cleric with Magic Initiate for Booming Blade, Absorb Elements, and Find Familiar
or
B) Sorc 1 for Con saves, followed by Cleric 2 for Destructive Wrath, followed by straight Sorcerer for blasting spells (in which case I would swap your Wis and Cha since cleric has more low casting stat friendly spells).

[BW022]

Hi everyone!

I am BRAND NEW to cleric. I am starting a new campaign just for fun and I want some tips on how to build this lightning style class!
...


I did a tempest cleric/warlock and it worked out well. Your stats are perfect for a heavy armor strength build for a melee type, but you do have the big issue that sorcerer (unlike pact of the blade warlock) won't get multiple attacks. That said...

1. No need to take cleric past 1st. You get the weapons and heavy armor. Spell slots, cantrips, healing, etc.
2. I would recommend a polearm -- for reach and to avoid (S) spellcasting issues with a shield and weapon. Reach can also useful to attack from non-front-line ranks, to not commit to melee, etc.
3. Because you wont' gain multiple attack, look at one of the weapon spells like green flame blade or booming blade.
4. Because you won't gain multiple attacks, pick up polearm mastery at 5th (cleric 1/sorcerer 4) This gives you reaction attacks when they close and a bonus attack.
5. Since your charisma is only 14, you want to avoid spells and cantrips which require attack roles and saves. Aim for buffs, defensive spells, and those not requiring saves. Shield, blink, fog cloud, flaming sphere, magic missile, etc. vs. firebolt or fireball (which creatures will start saving against a lot)
6. Healing scales with sorcerer spells so you are still a good healer.
7. Not that your cleric spells are slightly better offensively -- so using a thunderwave is still effective with your wisdom. Likewise, your wisdom make healing good.
8. Spiderclimb or fly with polearm can use effective vs. creatures without ranged attacks (which there are a lot of).
9. You aren't a primary tank, so have a spell to get you out of the soup -- misty step.
10. Consider bonus action activates spells (like flaming sphere) and not focusing on attacking with your action (fight defensively), heal allies, or buff folks.
11. Meta-magic is big for sorcerers and especially good for multi-classed sorcerers. Look for combos such as twinning cure spells or having familiars deliver cures at a distance.

With those stats, you probably can't go wrong.

[Oramac]

Potentially unpopular opinion, but beyond thematic resonance, I just don't think this combo works particularly well. It is quite MAD (somewhat mitigated by your high rolls) and the combo of Destructive Wrath and Sorcerer blasting doesn't come online until pretty late.

I played this character from 1-20 and can say with confidence, it is HIGHLY effective, even with point-buy. At 5th level, I one-shot an Illithid. And it only gets better at higher levels. Plus, it's fun as hell to boot.

To the OP, I'd start with Sorc 1 for con save proficiency, then grab cleric levels. From your post, it sounds like you want to be more melee-oriented. Assuming that's the case, I'd go Cleric 6 / Sorc 14. This gets you more d8 hit dice and two uses of Destructive Wrath. Tempest cleric gets heavy armor, so you're good there. Grab the Booming Blade and Green-Flame Blade cantrips, but also remember: you're a full caster and definitely need to be casting leveled spells. You can also grab the Transmuted Spell metamagic from Tasha's to cast max-damage Fireballs (Thunderball!) and such. Pick up Twinned-Spell too. Twinning Greater Invisibility on yourself and the monk/fighter/barbarian/whatever is a great way to vastly increase your group's damage output while also increasing their survivability. Also, if you go melee-caster you'll have to pick up the Warcaster feat. That's pretty much required unless you can somehow convince your DM to ignore the rules.

I'd honestly recommend taking mostly control and buff spells, and just picking up 2-4 damage spells, since your spells known/prepared is relatively low. Though if you grab 6 cleric levels (instead of the 2 I had when I played it) you'll have higher level cleric spells available. Depending on your ability score choices, this may change how you decide to allocate your spells known/prepared.

Above all, have fun!! This build has loads of potential, both mechanically and in RP. Use it!!

[Christew]

I played this character from 1-20 and can say with confidence, it is HIGHLY effective, even with point-buy. At 5th level, I one-shot an Illithid. And it only gets better at higher levels. Plus, it's fun as hell to boot.
As always YMMV. As to killing an illithid in one hit, care to elaborate? Given your build suggestions you would at best be upcasting 2nd level spells with a 3rd level slot -- not really a recipe for outputting 71 damage in a single turn.

Edit: Even if you are a Sorcerer 3/Cleric 2, I'm struggling to get to 71. Quickened Chromatic Orb at level 3 + Destructive Wrath (40) + Firebolt that crits (4d10) is the only way I could figure -- and that's both a hefty investment of resources and dependent on some exceptionally high rolls.

You can also grab the Transmuted Spell metamagic from Tasha's to cast max-damage Fireballs (Thunderball!) and such. Pick up Twinned-Spell too. Twinning Greater Invisibility on yourself and the monk/fighter/barbarian/whatever is a great way to vastly increase your group's damage output while also increasing their survivability.
This kind of speaks to my point. If you are taking 6 levels of cleric, you aren't going to be throwing Fireballs (or Thunderballs) until character level 11 -- at which point a pure cleric would know 6th level spells. Greater Invisibility won't come until character level 13 -- at which point a pure cleric would know 7th level spells.

I'm not saying don't play it, I'm just saying consider what you really want to get from Sorcerer here. Spells known progression can be a real bear.

[JLandan]

Based off your biggest stat, Strength, I assume you're looking to be melee oriented as well as blasting. A single or double dip in cleric will only get you armor and weapon proficiencies in terms of good melee stuff. Sorcerer won't get you anything but melee cantrips, which you get with one level. At 8th, cleric gets Divine Strike; once per turn +1d8 thunder, when you'll probably only be working one melee attack per turn anyway. I believe it would combine with Destructive Wrath and Booming Blade. Makes up for no extra attack.

[RogueJK]

I'd recommend going Storm Sorcerer 1, then Tempest Cleric 2, then back to Storm Sorcerer for the rest. It's worth waiting on the weapon/armor proficiency for 1 level, in exchange for CON save proficiency. A Spear/Greatclub and your Sorcerer cantrips, plus your 17 Tortle AC, will tide you over until Level 2.

Do 17 STR, 14 WIS, and 19 CHA. Definitely invest in the Transmute Spell Metamagic at Sorcerer 3. Take Warcaster at Sorcerer 4, then either +1 STR/+1 CHA or a +1 CHA half-feat at Sorcerer 8.


The truth is, whether you go Sorcerer with a Tempest Cleric dip like this, or Tempest Cleric with a Sorcerer dip, you're going to reach a point starting in Tier 2 where you have better things to do with your Action in many rounds than make a single melee attack, even one boosted with Booming Blade. This becomes even more true for Tiers 3 and 4.

So having a decent STR to be able to make a melee attack (and eventually Booming Blade Opportunity Attacks) is fine for Tier 1 and a good backup plan for Tiers 2-4, but you'll want to plan around primarily being a caster and focus on your casting stat as your primary stat.




1. No need to take cleric past 1st. You get the weapons and heavy armor. Spell slots, cantrips, healing, etc.

The whole point of a Tempest Cleric/Sorcerer multiclass is to be able to Maximize your Lightning/Thunder blast spells. You can't do that without at least 2 levels of Tempest Cleric for Channel Divinity.

[JLandan]

A lot of good advice for playing a caster.

Your original post says you want to be able to swing at the fences. A caster build is usually very different than a melee build. You'll need to rearrange your stats for full-on caster, which will lose the 19 STR. Keeping them as-is for a melee build with some good casting potential.

It's really just a matter of how you want to play the character. Tempest Cleric/Storm Sorcerer can go well either way. But Tortle is better suited for the melee build.

[5eNeedsDarksun]

I played this character from 1-20 and can say with confidence, it is HIGHLY effective, even with point-buy. At 5th level, I one-shot an Illithid. And it only gets better at higher levels. Plus, it's fun as hell to boot.

To the OP, I'd start with Sorc 1 for con save proficiency, then grab cleric levels. From your post, it sounds like you want to be more melee-oriented. Assuming that's the case, I'd go Cleric 6 / Sorc 14. This gets you more d8 hit dice and two uses of Destructive Wrath. Tempest cleric gets heavy armor, so you're good there. Grab the Booming Blade and Green-Flame Blade cantrips, but also remember: you're a full caster and definitely need to be casting leveled spells. You can also grab the Transmuted Spell metamagic from Tasha's to cast max-damage Fireballs (Thunderball!) and such. Pick up Twinned-Spell too. Twinning Greater Invisibility on yourself and the monk/fighter/barbarian/whatever is a great way to vastly increase your group's damage output while also increasing their survivability. Also, if you go melee-caster you'll have to pick up the Warcaster feat. That's pretty much required unless you can somehow convince your DM to ignore the rules.

I'd honestly recommend taking mostly control and buff spells, and just picking up 2-4 damage spells, since your spells known/prepared is relatively low. Though if you grab 6 cleric levels (instead of the 2 I had when I played it) you'll have higher level cleric spells available. Depending on your ability score choices, this may change how you decide to allocate your spells known/prepared.

Above all, have fun!! This build has loads of potential, both mechanically and in RP. Use it!!

I always wanted to play one of these. Glad to hear it worked for you, and I think your advice to the OP is spot on; in 5e you don't need to have a super OP build to have fun. As long as you don't completely mess it up, at most tables you'll be more than fine. By way of example, I've been surprised at how good my Paladin 2/ Bard 2 has been going so far; while he doesn't have quite the top end that some other characters have in our group, I probably have something useful to contribute more than any other character more often.

[Oramac]

As always YMMV. As to killing an illithid in one hit, care to elaborate? Given your build suggestions you would at best be upcasting 2nd level spells with a 3rd level slot -- not really a recipe for outputting 71 damage in a single turn.

Edit: Even if you are a Sorcerer 3/Cleric 2, I'm struggling to get to 71. Quickened Chromatic Orb at level 3 + Destructive Wrath (40) + Firebolt that crits (4d10) is the only way I could figure -- and that's both a hefty investment of resources and dependent on some exceptionally high rolls.

Easy. Chromatic Orb out of a 3rd level spell slot, and it crit. 5d8 max damage is 40, crit is 80 lightning damage. An Illithid has 71 hit points. Boom. Dead Illithid.

In fairness, I do think the Tempest Sorcerer (as I've come to call it) works far better as a pure caster build than a melee build. But the OP specifically mentioned making melee attacks, so I made recommendations along that route.

[RingoBongo]

If you want to swing for the fences, with a little more punch, I recommend going swarmkeeper 4 / tempest x.

Take druidic fighting style and pick up shillelagh. swarmkeeper helps push with booming blade (from a feat or something). Stack warcaster/ polarm master eventually as well and you are adding on to the "swing for the fences" strategy even more. While still being a bad ass caster.

The ranger also adds cool stuff like absorb elements and zypher strike, which will be nice uses of level 1 slots, also can slap on more damage with favored foe.

[ElSpivo]

More blaster, more tricksy with metamagic and Charisma, but way fewer spells known: sorcerer. But you'll need to swap wisdom and charisma stats to be effective. 14 is just too low for your save DCs in your primary casting stat.

More spells known and more variety/options, better hp and ac, with nice nova potential: tempest. Your current stat array works really well for this build.

Since you've already started Tempest, my suggestion is:

Go Tempest 5 which gets you spirit guardians, sleet storm and more, plus call lightning the premier max damage spell esp when paired with quicken metamagic (more on this later). As a cleric you can swap out spells on a long rest and have access to all of them at each level you unlock.

5th level for all classes is a big power spike. And for you, 3rd level spells are a big bump in spell power, and you don't really want to delay that. Take war caster for booming blade AoO at 4th level ASI or fey touched or even telekinetic for the wisdom +1. Getting your wisdom to 18. With a 19 strength war caster is great with booming blade, but misty step or the telekinetic shove are both great and you should take one those when you bump your wisdom.

Levels 6-10 are as good a time to dip as any for your first level in sorcerer. This nets you, booming blade, shield, absorb elements (which you'll need with your low dex) and tempestuous magic, which is great on a front liner and better when you have more spells to burn at higher levels. Just the single level will bolster your defenses and your mobility (with the extra perks of not provoking AoO and the ability to escape most grapples).


Despite the storm sorcerer being one of the weakest sorcerer sub classes (PHB sub classes just can't compete with Tasha's), I think a 1-3 level dip is complimentary and doesn't slow you down, too much, from being an effective cleric. Especially if you can take the last two levels after tempest 9th, for 5th spells level, esp destructive wave.

So going back to the quicken call lightning trick I mentioned before, you'll need metamagic for this. You can take metamagic adept to get the quicken metamagic or dip 3 levels in sorcerer to gain access. When you cast call lightning (use your highest level spell slot and if there's already a storm even better), use your quicken metamagic to cast it as a bonus action, which allows you to drop a lightning bolt as part of the bonus action casting of the spell. And since you still have your action available, and call lightning allows you to keep dropping lightning bolts as an action, drop a second bolt in that same turn, maximizing both with your channel divinity. That's just one way to nova your build because with the transmute metamagic option you can now use thunder bolt strike way more effectively as well. Lots of fun options with this build.

I'm currently running a tempest 12/storm sorcerer 1 with the metamagic adept feat and it's been a blast (pun intended). Happy to discuss anything about this build since it's been a great ride so far.

[Evaar]

What are the subclass features offered by Storm Sorcerer that synergize with the intended build?

Not class features, by the way, because that could be any Sorcerer subclass. Specifically what is the Storm Magic subclass bringing to the build that you want?

[Psyren]

What are the subclass features offered by Storm Sorcerer that synergize with the intended build?

Not class features, by the way, because that could be any Sorcerer subclass. Specifically what is the Storm Magic subclass bringing to the build that you want?

This, I don't see what Storm Sorcery is bringing to this build beyond marketing. You could be a better "storm caster" as pure Cleric, or via Scribes Wizard with the ability to change over some of your other damage spells to be lightning or thunder.

[ElSpivo]

What are the subclass features offered by Storm Sorcerer that synergize with the intended build?

Not class features, by the way, because that could be any Sorcerer subclass. Specifically what is the Storm Magic subclass bringing to the build that you want?

You're right any sorcerer would work, in fact Divine Soul has Favored by the God's which is a great feature. And clockwork and aberrant are clearly superior, especially when compared to storm or any other sorcerer for that matter. But Tempestuous magic is very nice on a melee caster, especially a full plate build that's going to be on the front lines. Any sorcerer can provide you with the incredible defensive spells like absorb elements and shield, and so imo, storm will work just fine for a dip.

[ElSpivo]

This, I don't see what Storm Sorcery is bringing to this build beyond marketing. You could be a better "storm caster" as pure Cleric, or via Scribes Wizard with the ability to change over some of your other damage spells to be lightning or thunder.

Current stats don't allow for any wizard mc so scribes is out unless op can swap stats.

[Psyren]

Current stats don't allow for any wizard mc so scribes is out unless op can swap stats.

I assumed they assigned their stats the way they did specifically so they could be a sorc/cleric, and therefore that they could be adjusted

[Teaguethebean]

I honestly think sorcerer will just lead to delaying what makes you strong. If you want to mix it up in melee and with spells go full tempest cleric and at lv4 pick up magic initiate for booming blade and whatever else you like.

[ElSpivo]

I assumed they assigned their stats the way they did specifically so they could be a sorc/cleric, and therefore that they could be adjusted


PS. No rush, we are starting campaign tomorrow night and at level 1. Whatever builds you guys can help with is going to be the framework for the future of Bortli!

The campaign started on 2/10, so what you see is what you get I guess, unless their DM allows a retcon ofc.

[Urbanmech]

Taking sorcerer levels really only works well if there are thunder or Lightning spells you want to take from the class. You will probably get more bang for your buck just going pure Tempest Cleric. Taking Metamagic Adept feat for Transmute spell can get you a Thunder or Lightning Spirit Guardians and it much less of an investment than 3 levels of Sorcerer.

If you do really want to throw out maximized lightning bolts or fireballs then Tempest 2/Sorcerer 5 is the quickest way to throwing out a 48 damage lightning or thunder transmuted fireball 1/short rest.

Your melee contributions will be good at low levels but will quickly fall off in favor of spellcasting at 5th+ levels. I wouldn’t expend too many resources trying to make it a huge focus.

[Psyren]

The campaign started on 2/10, so what you see is what you get I guess, unless their DM allows a retcon ofc.

Until OP says it's too late I'll make the recommendations I want to make.

[Oramac]

snip

I'm currently running a tempest 12/storm sorcerer 1 with the metamagic adept feat and it's been a blast (pun intended). Happy to discuss anything about this build since it's been a great ride so far.

I'm actually quite excited to see this as well. As I said above, I played the opposite of this all the way to 20 (Tempest 2 / Sorc 18) and it was absolutely fantastic. I have no doubt the inverse would be true too. To those saying a primary Sorc build doesn't work, I'm here to tell you you're wrong. It absolutely does. You do have to be very picky with your spells known, and it definitely favors a battlemat rather than TotM, but it is 100% an effective and fun build.

For what the Sorc brings, Tempestuous Magic is at the top of the list, especially for the primary sorc build, since you don't want to be in melee. Heart of the Storm is really useful too. Besides the lightning/thunder resistance, it stacks with tempestuous magic, so you can deal a decent bit of bonus damage and get yourself out of melee at the same time. Storm Guide is super situational, but if you get in those situations it's downright OP. And Wind Soul is just amazing. Immunity to two damage types is fantastic by itself, but giving your entire party a no-concentration fly speed for an hour is flippin ridiculous.

[ElSpivo]

Going full sorcerer (2 tempest/ sorcerer X) with op's current stats, unless a retcon is allowed, seems silly.

Going full cleric is always an option, and a pretty good one at that.

But here's the thing, a tempest never gets more than 4 elemental blast spells: thunder wave, shatter, call lightning, and destructive wave. That's it.

So you either mc to pick up more elemental spells, ie the switch to mainly sorcerer (which given current stats is not a great option), or you invest in a way to leverage what's built into tempest.

So I think there's a compelling argument to dip, it just depends on when. And imo a single level dip shores up the cleric's defenses substantially and gives them a sweet mobility trick to use, especially at higher levels, and gives the cleric a beefed up melee attack with booming blade - and since you only get one per turn, better to make it count when it hits.

If your campaign goes into higher levels there's even more of an argument to mc (or at least pick up the metamagic adept feat). With metamagic, thunderbolt strike is actually a usable option, and finally at 13th level tempest, you get a massive nuke with the fire storm spell, that can be maxed using the transmute metamagic.

Timing I think can be campaign dependent but waiting until after 5th for call lightning, sleet storm, etc...or after 9th level for destructive wave are good break points, at least for the initial 1 level dip.

Imo even a 1 level dip gains you a lot mechanically and thematically.

[ElSpivo]

Until OP says it's too late I'll make the recommendations I want to make.

Fair enough.