Second Wind extra uses

[Rev666]

Ive noticed that a lot of new features have gone from 1 use/rest to number of uses equal to proficiency bonus per long rest.

Initially I thought of allowing the change for the fighter in my groups second wind but on reflection the theoretical result at level 20 would be allowing 6D10+120 HP across the day.

Would you rule it a good balance to allow con modifier uses per long rest (so you'd have to pump a lot into con to get 5D10+100 across the day at most) or do you think second wind is fine as is?

For context the group usually adventures, then short rests, then adventures, then long rests so short rest features tend to only be used twice across the day (whereas combat balance suggest 2 short rests a day, ergo, 3 uses of a short rest feature).

[Gurgeh]

I would be leery of tying the use of a first-level feature to a character's proficiency bonus unless you run it in a game without multiclassing, because it will be very dip-abusable. Yes, the non-random component of Second Wind scales with Fighter level, but the 1d10 doesn't.

[Mastikator]

Assuming a standard adventuring day (2 short rests, enough encounters to expend most HP and resources over the day)

1) Levels 1-4 would be nerfed for fighter, instead of 3 second winds fighters would only get 2. This nerf is unwelcome IMO.
2) levels 5-8 would be the same, except that fighters are more "burst-y and able to deal with big deadly challenges (so closer to casters/long rest type classes). This change is mostly welcome, but I kinda prefer to have second wind pacing enforced
3) Levels 9+ would be stronger for fighters, I like that.
4) Multiclassing fighter would be much stronger, a single level dip is crazy powerful at high level, this is too good IMO.

Proposed change: Have it increase at the same rate level as proficiency, IE 5, 9, 13 etc. But have it start at 3 per long rest instead of 2. So at fighter level 5 you get 4 second wind per long rest, at fighter level 9 you get 5 second wind per long rest (this will also make level 9 feel less like a dead level).

[Kane0]

My rule of thumb for converting short rest to long rest is triple the number of uses. So Second Wind would become three times and only a long rest recovers them.
That largely equates to the same prof times per long rest that you would have for the bulk of the average game anyways.
If you feel like that is too generous you can drop it to double instead of triple, that largely would be depending on how many fights your party gets into per long rest and how much damage they take.

[follacchioso]

It would be a very strong home rule, based on the way things are balanced before Tasha. As mentioned above, a one level dip in Fighter would allow a lv 19 character to use the ability six times per day, although the healing would be limited to 1d10+1.

However, if you look at Tasha and the books published after it, it would be on par with other abilities. Look at what a Peace Domain cleric can do, with Emboldening Bold. Overall it could be allowed.

[heavyfuel]

It would be a very strong home rule, based on the way things are balanced before Tasha. As mentioned above, a one level dip in Fighter would allow a lv 19 character to use the ability six times per day, although the healing would be limited to 1d10+1.

Healing 6d10+6 per day is not at all strong for a 19th level character.

Geez, 19th level characters are Wishing stuff in and out of existence. Some lousy healing that isn't even burst healing shouldn't worry you at all. :smallsigh:

[heavyfuel]

@OP

A not often seen use of Second Wind is healing multiple times per "short rest". I know that RAW a short rest is "at least one hour", implying you can't take two short rests back to back in two hours, but most DMs I've seen allow this, and there are even some loopholes (like sparring for a minute before the second rest)

So if the party has 3 hours to kill, the Fighter can use it to gain some HP with 3 short rests.

Your houserule would actually give Fighters fewer uses of SW, instead of extra uses. At least most of the time.

[Syjyl4488]

Honestly…I would like to see it stay as a short rest recharge whose uses increase as with ftr lvls…like you get indomitable at 9, 13, and 17, and action surge at 2 and 17…I’d like to see second wind increase in a similar way. Maybe at 1, 9, and 15, rewarding the people who play hi lvl ftrs.

[Kane0]

Honestly…I would like to see it stay as a short rest recharge whose uses increase as with ftr lvls…like you get indomitable at 9, 13, and 17, and action surge at 2 and 17…I’d like to see second wind increase in a similar way. Maybe at 1, 9, and 15, rewarding the people who play hi lvl ftrs.

Thats close to what i do. Extra attack follows cantrip progression and second wind, action surge and indomitable are all short rest abilities that get a second use as the capatone.