Personal Flying ability vs Mounted Flight?

[Citadel97501]

Hello all, I have been watching a lot of fantasy anime lately, and one of the series got me thinking about what is a more efficient method of flight for both characters and armies? Which do you find to be more efficient character wise and accessible to classes?

I am dividing up Personal Flying Ability as flight through a spell, class ability, or racial ability, with the standard support abilities & items necessary to keep these active such as a high Stamina/Concentration check. In addition most of these options are shorter durations or use resources except for the often banned Winged Tieflings, and Aarakocra. With Mounted Flight being a magic item that is ridden, riding flying creatures, and things of that sort naturally you would need to also add in the other requirements to keep you alive such as Rings of Feather Falling, or the spell Feather Fall.

Personally, I like the idea of flying animals as they are cheaper in the long run but the other costs and class features to keep them functioning seem to make this a bit more limited? It is also terrifyingly easy to be instant killed through a simple push or pull effect yanking you off your mount, so you desperately need Feather Fall. All in All, this seems to imply that in world armies, would use flying mounts while lone heroes IE players are much more likely to use Personal Flying Ability.

Please, share your opinions as I think these discussions are a lot of fun and help flesh out a world.

[JackPhoenix]

Personal flight is better for both if it's racial and you're not worried about speed, as non-racial options are usually faster.

Personal flight is better for characters... no big mount that can be shot down and is likely squishier than the rider, can't or won't fit inside dungeons and relies on somewhat wonky mounted combat rules.
For armies without racial flight, flying mounts are propably more economically viable. In some cases, they may have better combat capability than whoever is riding it. And armies don't need to fit their mounts inside lich's tomb or beholder lair, or something.

[Bobthewizard]

Mounted flight gives you the ability to have the mount dash and you still use your action, while personal flight requires your action to dash. So at the same listed speed, a mounted flyer will have twice the mobility in combat of the personal flyer.

But the rest of the argument probably leans towards personal flight as described above.

Interestingly, one of my favorite uncommon magic times, the flying broom, does not allow you to dash at all. It is an object with a speed of 50'. It is not a creature so it can't dash and it does not give you a flying speed so you can't use it to dash.

[NotPrior]

Mounted flight is better in pretty much every case, but not for RAW reasons in 5e.

In battle the charging air cavalry would be massively more effective than descending air infantry for the same reason a mounted charge is better than an infantry charge on the ground- more mass is one factor, but there are others.

Logistically a flying army only works if your wizards per capita is massive (a mage NPC can allow three people to fly if they burn their highest level spell on doing so) you can produce vast quantities of magic items (flying items cost 101 gp each minimum, which is a 101 days of middle-class living, and IRL equipment for armies at this time was very much BYO sword) or are a flying race. So you're looking at a small contingent of elite soldiers airborn unless the army is an aarakocra flock.

[Psyren]

It depends on the economics of domesticating and rearing flying creatures (and training their riders) vs. the economics of mass-producing long-duration magic flying items that can be used by anyone. I'm inclined to think the former is easier in most published settings but I don't have any specific citations.

[Monster Manuel]

It depends on the economics of domesticating and rearing flying creatures (and training their riders) vs. the economics of mass-producing long-duration magic flying items that can be used by anyone. I'm inclined to think the former is easier in most published settings but I don't have any specific citations.

There's an issue of longevity that comes into play, too, in a world with super-long-lived creatures. The economics of raising and training a stable of War Pegasi is certainly more reasonable than the economics of maintaining a Magic Broom Factory. But the Brooms will last forever until lost, stolen or destroyed, while the Pegasi will eventually grow old and die (never mind those that are lost in battle). Eventually, the stockpile of brooms becomes competitive with the stable of flying mounts, so it might be reasonable to have truly ancient empires (elves, I'm mostly thinking of you) with item-based flight, using an inventory crafted over millennia, while younger kingdoms are still messing around with flying horses.

I do think that the ability of a mount to dash, while still letting its' rider take their actions, is a not insignificant benefit over personal flight. I don't think it outweighs the risk of having your mount shot out from under you at cruising altitude...

[Sillybird99]

With magic items, it's mostly a non issue for paladins. Find Greater Steed Pegasus with saddle of the cavalier and a feather token in the saddlebags: Flight you dont need to feed, a saddle you can never fall out of while conscious, and the single feather token to prevent you both from falling to death if the mount gets knocked prone. If the mount dies, it would be bad, but Pegasi have good saves and benefit from the paladin save aura and the saddle makes it pretty hard to hit with barding.

[Psyren]

There's an issue of longevity that comes into play, too, in a world with super-long-lived creatures. The economics of raising and training a stable of War Pegasi is certainly more reasonable than the economics of maintaining a Magic Broom Factory. But the Brooms will last forever until lost, stolen or destroyed, while the Pegasi will eventually grow old and die (never mind those that are lost in battle). Eventually, the stockpile of brooms becomes competitive with the stable of flying mounts, so it might be reasonable to have truly ancient empires (elves, I'm mostly thinking of you) with item-based flight, using an inventory crafted over millennia, while younger kingdoms are still messing around with flying horses.

While that's true - the brooms are also much easier for opportunists or rival nations to steal. The flying mounts will at a minimum resist being taken, and may even fight would-be-thieves and raiders to the death or escape at the earliest opportunity. Magic brooms meanwhile typically don't care who uses them.


I do think that the ability of a mount to dash, while still letting its' rider take their actions, is a not insignificant benefit over personal flight. I don't think it outweighs the risk of having your mount shot out from under you at cruising altitude...

You raise another good point with action economy - a flying mount can potentially rescue a rider who has become incapacitated or wounded.

But the point about needing to protect the mount to a greater degree than a magic item during combat is valid too.

[Pildion]

I believe Mounted Flight is better, because of dashing and well mounted cavalry were basically the tanks of this time period. That said the only way your getting an army airborne is with racial features. No one could afford mounts for a whole army.

[Psyren]

I think it's quite feasible. Pegasi are intelligent and understand language. Treat them less like horses and more like trusted allies and over time I could see them voluntarily commingling with another civilization for mutual benefit.

This is the kind of thing you'd be more likely to see in a setting's distant past, e.g. a Cormanthyr, Netheril or Azlant mega-empire vibe, but it's not unimaginable.

[BW022]

Well... flight in most games has a lot of competing issues. I'll say there are generally three uses of flight.

1. Combat You spend about half your time in combat, and most MM creatures cannot fly nor do that have ranged attacks... therefore the ability to tactically fly is huge. It's primarily an immunity from attacks for a good number of combats if you have the room. It has some offensive ability to fly over blockers, reach people in defensive positions, etc. It comes with drawbacks, especially if it requires actions or concentration and it typically doesn't help the rest of the party which is then subject to attacks. Depending upon the situation, spider climb or levitate might be good enough, but more situational.

2. General Encounters Things such as a cliff, a dangerous river crossing, saving kids from a sinking ship, etc. These tends to only be a few minutes and flying typically removes the encounter entirely. You fly up, attach a rope, and not much of an encounter. Such encounters tend to be in the minutes range.

3. Overland Travel This is typically just speeding up long overland travel. The big issues that everyone needs to be able to fly, and it typically isn't saving table time. It generally doesn't take more time (at the table) to ride on horses 8 days across a wilderness than 3 days flying across it. Unless your DM is a glutton for encounters. Having flying mounts also risks having them killed or housing them while you are in the dungeon. I've found few modules (and I'm careful on creating adventures) where I'm going to punish players in such ways. Most long distance travel tends to be via horses, ships, and generally civilized areas, unless you the trip itself is part of the adventure, in which case flying just avoids it. There is also a short window before you get access to higher level traveling spells such as teleport which makes many flights unnecessary.

I've generally say that personal flight is more valuable -- in combat and in general encounters. And if your DM is running a wilderness heavy campaign -- generally they won't want you do have flying mounts or party items which can nerf all their work.

[Chronos]

Quoth Psyren:

It depends on the economics of domesticating and rearing flying creatures (and training their riders) vs. the economics of mass-producing long-duration magic flying items that can be used by anyone. I'm inclined to think the former is easier in most published settings but I don't have any specific citations.
As one data point, the city of Waterdeep has a significant number of griffon-riders as part of their city watch, but the only magic items they distribute to those riders are a single-use Ring of Feather Falling each, in case they're dismounted.