Subclasses as multiclasses

[LibraryOgre]

So, I'm not a fan of 3.x style "add a level of a class" multiclassing. 5e tried to fix it a bit, but I'm still not a fan.

There's two other forms of multiclassing that I do like... the 4e-style feat multiclassing (get defined benefits in exchange for a feat) and the subclass style, shown by War Clerics, Eldritch Knights, Arcane Tricksters, and so on.

But that starts me thinking about what I should make. I've done the fighter/cleric Crusader (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?641718-Fighter-Subclass-Crusader) and the Bard/Wizard College of Arcana (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24767302&postcount=13), but I'm sort of playing with coming up with more ideas. (There are, of course, subclasses which are NOT a multiclass, or even which are intensifications on certain aspects of a given class... and there might be more than one take on a single multiclass).

This is a place where a chart would come in handy. However, can you help me fill out the obnoxiously long list below? Note that this is a subclass that draws from another class or subclass, so the combination looks different from each side... a War Cleric is a cleric/fighther, a Crusader is a fighter/cleric. As you help me, note if it's official or homebrew, please, and note any non-PH sources. Also note: This is about features and mechanics, not role-playing. A Tempest cleric may be great for a barbarian-type, but it's not a barbarian-like subclass in mechanics.

Barbarian
-Bard
-Cleric: Path of the Zealot (XGE)
-Druid: Path of the Totem Warrior (PH), Path of the Storm Herald (XGE), Path of the Beast (TCE), Path of Wild Magic (TCoE)
-Fighter
-Monk
-Paladin: Path of the Zealot (XGE)
-Ranger
-Rogue
-Sorcerer: Path of Wild Magic (TCE)
-Warlock
-Wizard

Bard
-Barbarian
-Cleric
-Druid
-Fighter: College of Valor (PH), College of Blades (XGE)
-Monk
-Paladin
-Ranger: College of Blades (XGE)
-Rogue: College of Whispers (XGtE)
-Sorcerer
-Warlock
-Wizard

Cleric
-Artificer: Forge Cleric (XGtE)
-Barbarian
-Bard
-Druid: Nature Domain (PH), Tempest Domain (PH)
-Fighter: War Domain (PH)
-Monk
-Paladin
-Ranger
-Rogue: Trickery Domain (PH), Shadow Domain (D&DB)
-Sorcerer
-Warlock
-Wizard: Arcana Domain (SCAG)

Druid
-Barbarian
-Bard
-Cleric
-Fighter
-Monk
-Paladin
-Ranger
-Rogue
-Sorcerer
-Warlock: Circle of Stars (TCoE)
-Wizard: Circle of Stars (TCoE), Circle of Arcana (D&DB)

Fighter
-Barbarian: Rune Knight (TCoE)
-Bard
-Cleric
-Druid
-Monk
-Paladin
-Ranger: Woodland Wander (D&DB), Arcane Archer (XGtE)
-Rogue
-Sorcerer
-Warlock
-Wizard: Eldritch Knight (PH), Arcane Archer (XGE)

Monk
-Barbarian
-Bard
-Cleric: Way of Mercy (TCoE)
-Druid: Way of the Four Elements (PH)
-Fighter: Way of the Kensei (XGE)
-Paladin
-Ranger
-Rogue: Shadow Monk (PH)
-Sorcerer: Way of the Four Elements (PH)
-Warlock
-Wizard

Paladin
-Barbarian: Glory (TCoE)
-Bard
-Cleric
-Druid: Oath of the Ancients (PH)
-Fighter
-Monk
-Ranger: Oath of the Ancients (PH)
-Rogue
-Sorcerer
-Warlock
-Wizard: Oath of the Anti-Mage (D&DB)

Ranger
-Barbarian
-Bard: Fey Wanderer (TCoE)
-Cleric
-Druid: Primeval Guardian (UA)
-Fighter: Vanguard (D&DB)
-Monk
-Paladin
-Rogue: Gloom Stalker (XGE)
-Sorcerer
-Warlock
-Wizard

Rogue
-Barbarian
-Bard
-Cleric
-Druid
-Fighter: Swashbuckler (XGE)
-Monk
-Paladin
-Ranger: Scout (XGtE)
-Sorcerer
-Warlock
-Wizard: Arcane Trickster (PH)

Sorcerer
-Barbarian
-Bard
-Cleric: Divine Soul (XGE)
-Druid:
-Fighter
-Monk
-Paladin
-Ranger: Scout (XGE)
-Rogue
-Warlock:Aberrant Mind (TCoE), Shadow (XGtE)
-Wizard

Warlock
-Barbarian
-Bard
-Cleric: The Celestial (XGE)
-Druid: The Archfey (PH), The Fathomless (TCE)
-Fighter: Weapon Pact? Hexblade?
-Monk
-Paladin
-Ranger
-Rogue
-Sorcerer
-Wizard: Tome Pact

Wizard
-Barbarian
-Bard
-Cleric: Theurgy (UA)
-Druid
-Fighter: Bladesinging (SCAG, TCE)
-Monk
-Paladin
-Ranger
-Rogue
-Sorcerer
-Warlock

And, of course, feel free to argue placement.

Some suggestions from things I've already created

Bard/Wizard: College of Arcana (homebrew; linked above)
Fighter/Barbarian: Rhinohide Fighter Rhinohide fighter (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?641253-Rhinohide-Fighter-Subclass)
Fighter/Cleric: Crusader (homebrew; linked above)
Sorcerer/Cleric: Guardian of Greyskull (Homebrew (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?591959-Warlock-Pact-The-Grey-Skull))
Warlock/Barbarian: Champion of Greyskull (homebrew (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?591959-Warlock-Pact-The-Grey-Skull))

The last two are obviously a little tongue in cheek.

[Psyren]

An easy source for names like these are the PrC names that WotC has already used - stuff like Rage Mage, Daggerspell Shaper, Sacred Fist, Sublime Chord etc.

Also - I know you want to go in both directions for each pairing but I'd consider focusing in a bit to lighten your workload; not every concept may be worth a whole subclass. For example, Monk/Cleric who is mostly a monk but gets some divine spellcasting would be good to have, and I'd probably make the Sacred Fist be that. But then the reverse of that (a Cleric who learns how to punch things well) can be accomplished fairly easily now just with feats.

[Khrysaes]

You may want to look at final fantasy ttrpg ir ff11 subclass system. It may be too similar to 5e subclass.

Alternative you can try and adjust the base classes such that all base classes get subclass levels at the same time and of same amount. Then adjust subclasses such that they are self contained such that they grant the required features so that if a class that doesnt grant the feature, such as bard bardic inspiration can use the new subclass feature

[LibraryOgre]

Y'all gotta understand... I get bored. As a librarian, I have big swaths of time where my job is to sit there and be ready when someone needs me. Which leads to me writing game stuff, because I am bored.

I mean, I literally made a She-Ra/He-man subclass, then decided I needed to do the Sorceress as well. In the past, I've converted chunks of Robotech to Star Wars d6 for funsies. This *probably* won't make it to Beyond (though, ya know, I could), but it's something to play with when I'm otherwise fighting to stay awake, or not write 1400+ words on why The Last Jedi is underappreciated.

I am planning on ripping some names from previous stuff. I'm figuring the fighter/druid will be the Warden, for example. Mostly, I'm hoping folks will fill in what's already there, with sources. There's a lot of material I'm not familiar with.

[Amnestic]

I've done some of these as homebrew subclasses myself. Mileage will vary as to how much crossover there is mechanically, but I'll use it as an excuse to shill a bunch of my things for name inspiration regardless.

Wizard (Monk): Arcane Tradition Weavefist (https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/Jkn5fHNZ5NPY)
Wizard (Cleric): Arcane Tradition White Mage (https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/Nv4ppA54-4Xy)

Bard (Cleric?): College of Preaching (https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/DuQv_PlAPH6M)

Cleric (Ranger?): Travel (https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/zJ9Lik6LaSyK)Domain

Fighter (Bard): Chanter (https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/s1oG5PEBl8VX) (Pillars of Eternity, obvs)
Fighter (Rogue): Master Merchant (https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/GJGctbzvwycm)

Monk (Fighter): Way of the Juggernaut (https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/R4ASYdrrOJNO)
Monk (Warlock??): Way of the Fiendish Deceiver (https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/92a-46-WyEvn)

Warlock (Rogue): Phantom Thief (https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/FmziUailLRLJ) Patron (Persona hoooo)
Warlock (Druid): Shaman of the Elements (https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/tCcvjKBMPf_K) Patron

Barbarian (Druid): Path of the Warden (https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/iwo1i7p48ncf)
Barbarian (Warrior): Path of the Trueblade (https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/9EwIM4H5dttW)

Rogue (Cleric): Divine Agent (https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/-6_i9j63mu_e)
Rogue (Monk): Iaijutsu Master (https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/WKO9CXpzTqPk)

Paladin (Monk): Oath of the Ascetic (https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/Wzn9XXwVuCGY)
Paladin (Ranger?): Oath of the Seeker (https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/T8YMRA3E6pqp)
Paladin (Anti-Cleric): Oath of the Heretic (https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/iMr1Mo6CsoFe)

Sorcerer (Fighter? Barbarian?): Sorcerous Origin: Bladesoul (https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/23vBWLtD8_0s)


An easy source for names like these are the PrC names that WotC has already used - stuff like Rage Mage, Daggerspell Shaper, Sacred Fist, Sublime Chord etc.


Pathfinder's archetypes are also good for this, as they frequently have "multiclass" archetypes.

[Psyren]

Was leaving Artificer off the list intentional?

Some more official combos include Wizard/Fighter (Bladesinger, TCoE), Monk/Warlock (4E, kind of, PHB) and Paladin/Ranger (Oath of Ancients, kind of, PHB).


or not write 1400+ words on why The Last Jedi is underappreciated.

As I wholeheartedly agree, you're encouraging me to sabotage your efforts so this gets made instead :smallwink::smallbiggrin:


I've done some of these as homebrew subclasses myself. Mileage will vary as to how much crossover there is mechanically, but I'll use it as an excuse to shill a bunch of my things for name inspiration regardless. *snip*

I'd do College of Evangelism for Bard/Cleric myself but otherwise I like Amnestic's names.

+1 to checking Pathfinder archetypes for ideas.

[Amnestic]

I've not made one yet but my Rogue (Bard) will probably be a Dancer, based off the FF14 job.

Some name ideas from PF's archetypes. Again, mechanics may vary and I'm sure I missed a bunch:

Barbarian (Monk): Drunken Brute/Rager (instead of Drunken Master)
Barbarian (Ranger): Mad Dog (gets an animal companion)

Bard (Druid): Cultivator
Bard (Warlock? Ranger): Fey Prankster
Bard (Rogue): Arcane Duelist
Bard (Barbarian): Skald

Fighter (Artificer): Mutation Warrior
Fighter (Sorcerer): Dragonheir Scion (dragon sorc, specifically)

Monk (Sorcerer): Scaled Fist (dragon sorc, specifically)

Paladin (Bard): Martyr
Paladin (Ranger): Forest Preserver

Ranger (Rogue): Infiltrator
Ranger (Fighter): Sentinel
Ranger (Artificer): Wilderness Medic

Rogue (Artificer): Underground Chemist
Rogue (Bard): Charlatan
Rogue (Ranger): Survivalist (or Scout, which already exists)

Sorcerer (Cleric): False Priest

Wizard (Sorcerer): Chaos Mage (wild magic!)
Wizard (Artificer): Arcane Bomber

[T.G. Oskar]

Might want to consider the following:

Barbarian -> Druid: Path of the Beast. Mostly because it's a form of Wild Shape, if you think about it - natural weapons as unarmed strikes, an effect that grants a climb or swim speed to emulate beast aspects. It's merely a subset of what a Druid can do (since you lack proper spellcasting), but it does give that flavor.

Barbarian -> Sorcerer/Warlock (?): Path of Wild Magic. Now, it's not a proper spellcasting addition to the Barbarian, but it gives a magical touch to the Barbarian through its main feature. Leans more towards Warlock because of its limited effect, but it has a strange Sorcery flavor.

Bard -> Rogue: College of Whispers. The way Psychic Whispers grows resembles Sneak Attack a lot. You can emulate some of the other Rogue aspects through spells, and they already get Expertise which is one of the big deals of being a Rogue. No Cunning Action or superb defenses, though.

Cleric -> Wizard: Arcana Domain. Of all multiclass options, it's odd that you haven't mentioned this one. Gives you Wizard cantrips as if Cleric spells, improves the damage of your cantrips, and eventually gives you access to Wizard spells for your highest level spells - including Simulacrum and Wish. This one is definitely a Cleric/Wizard multiclass sneaked in.

Druid -> Warlock (?)/Wizard: Circle of the Stars. Though you don't get increased spell options, the feel is that of a learned caster, which is very Wizard in concept. I mention Warlock, though, because the Archer constellation gives you a damage option that's roughly in par with Eldritch Blast.

Fighter -> Barbarian: Rune Knight. The main benefit of a Barbarian is its Rage, and Giant's Might is Rage in all but name. I'd argue that it's even better than Rage, since it gives a considerable damage boost. If you go for the "Vikings are Barbarians" route, you can't go wrong without Runes, even if they're quasi-magical.

Monk -> Fighter: Kensei. You specialize in a subset of weapons and your abilities are focused on maximizing your utility with them. How is that not a Fighter trait? Sure, you don't get proficiency with armor or shields, but you gain a better use of weapons.

Monk -> Cleric (?): Way of Mercy. Alright, this may be a bit of a stretch, but the flavor of the subclass is that of a "Ki" healer/assassin, reveling in the duality. Between the healing aspects and the damaging aspects, you could see the formation of an alternative Cleric concept.

Paladin -> Druid (?)/Ranger: Way of the Ancients. Straight from the get-go, the Order of the Ancients gives you a lot of Ranger and Druid spells, and the whole flavor and concept is that of a defender of nature.

Rogue -> Fighter: Swashbuckler. While it doesn't actually give you more proficiencies, it helps you to trigger your Sneak Attack damage a lot better, and you could consider it makes you a slightly better warrior overall.

Rogue -> Ranger: Scout. Extra skills related to nature, mobility, triggering Sneak Attack twice, but most importantly it oozes that Ranger flavor so badly that some people have considered it a replacement for Ranger itself. (And it harkens back to 3.5's Scout class, which was seen as a spell-less Ranger in a way).

Wizard -> Fighter: Bladesinger. Just like Eldritch Knight adds spells to your fighting skills, Bladesinger adds some martial prowess to your spellcasting. They even get Extra Attack, after all, and their main ability requires you to essentially be engaged in combat.

[LibraryOgre]

Was leaving Artificer off the list intentional?

I have no book which provides me with access to the Artificer (and, TBH, I tend to find all the versions I've encountered of them somewhat unworkable).



As I wholeheartedly agree, you're encouraging me to sabotage your efforts so this gets made instead :smallwink::smallbiggrin:

“[Psyren], I'm not a Republic serial villain. Do you seriously think I'd explain my master-stroke if there remained the slightest chance of you affecting its outcome? I did it [yesterday].” :smallbiggrin:



I'd do College of Evangelism for Bard/Cleric myself but otherwise I like Amnestic's names.


I ran into someone who used the 2e bard, with cleric spells, as the more standard priest archetype than cleric.


Might want to consider the following:


To be clear, are these official ones, or homebrews? Do you have the sources on them? (side effect of being a librarian; I can get a LOT of books relatively easily)

[Saelethil]

Not sure if you use D&D Beyond but I have a few on there and a few that have been discussed on the homebrew forum.

Circle of Arcana: Druid/Wizard - Here (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?624798-Circle-of-Arcana-Druid) is the post on here. And here (https://www.dndbeyond.com/subclasses/657092-circle-of-arcana), is the updated version on D&D Beyond.
Oath of The Anti-Mage: Paladin/Wizard - I don't think I ever posted this one here but here (https://www.dndbeyond.com/subclasses/905005-oath-of-the-anti-mage) is the DDB link.
Shadow Domain: Cleric/Rogue - I don't have this one on DDB yet but here's (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?640362-Shadow-Domain-Cleric-(PEACH)&p=25305322) the link to where I shared it on the Playground.
Vanguard: Ranger/Fighter - Again, not on DDB yet but here's (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?635351-(PEACH)-Vanguard-Ranger-Subclass) the forum post.
Woodland Wanderer: Fighter/Ranger - I've been playing this one for a little over 6 months (still only level 5 but we should level up after next session) and have been having a great time. Here's (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?624908-Woodland-Wanderer-Fighter-(Updated)-(PEACH)) the forum post and here (https://www.dndbeyond.com/subclasses/598855-woodland-wanderer) it is on DDB with a couple minor changes. This was one of the first subclasses I did in DDB so it's a little ugly on the page but works great in the character sheet.

I also have Archdruid and Archmage Warlocks that haven't made their way onto either site yet if people are interested in picking them apart.

[T.G. Oskar]

To be clear, are these official ones, or homebrews? Do you have the sources on them? (side effect of being a librarian; I can get a LOT of books relatively easily)

All are official content.

Oath of the Ancients is straight from the PHB. (I wrote it as "Way" instead, and I apologize for that)

Arcana Domain is from Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide, and hasn't been published anywhere else. Swashbuckler and Bladesigner are also originally from the SCAG, but got reprinted on later books (Xanathar's and Tasha's, respectively).

College of Whispers, Way of the Kensei and Scout are from Xanathar's Guide to Everything.

Path of the Beast, Path of Wild Magic, Circle of Stars, Rune Knight and Way of Mercy are from Tasha's Cauldron of Everything.

I apologize for not quoting sources, since I was in a bit of a haste and wrote the ones on top of my mind.

[Leon]

For names maybe take a look at the Titan Quest Classes and Match up Names that fit.

[Nidgit]

A couple obvious ones that are missing:

Zealot Barbarian->Cleric, XGtE: doesn't add that many Cleric abilities, but the bonus radiant/necrotic damage and overt religious theming make it enough to count for me.

Storm Herald Barbarian->Druid, XGtE: A focus on low damage control effects and improved exploration abilities, plus the environmental theming.

College of Swords Bard->Ranger, XGtE: Admittedly not the strongest connection, but the Fighting Styles and overall skirmishing tactics are reminiscent of a Ranger. Plus it tends to function better as an archer than in melee.

Nature Cleric->Druid, PHB: Taking spells straight from the Druid list, plus CD to talk to plants. Doesn't get clearer than that.

Spores Druid, TCoE: A melee alternative to the Moon Druid that gains bonuses to melee damage and temporary HP, but no Extra Attack. Doesn't really map cleanly to anything else.

Forge Cleric->Artificer, XGtE: The shared focus on creation grants a similar spell list, the ability to boost someone's gear, and the ability to make tools, armor, or other items.

Arcane Archer Fighter->Ranger, XGtE: Magic arrows, duh. It's also very underpowered.

Shadow Monk->Rogue, PHB: A sneaky monk that can turn invisible? Yep. Plus, its 17th level ability is called Opportunist and that's basically a synonym for Sneak Attack.

Glory Paladin->Barbarian, TCoE: A paladin that gains an increase to speed, Athletics/Acrobatics, and other physical feats.

Gloomstalker Ranger->Rogue, XGtE: Specializes in ambushes and hiding in wait, and gains some abilities very similar to core Rogue abilities.

Fey Wanderer Ranger->Bard, TCoE: Gains a bonus social skill and a boost to Charisma checks, plus focuses on charms, illusions, and psychic damage.

Divine Sorcerer->Cleric, XGtE: Gains healing ability and literally picks any spells off the Cleric spell list.

Aberrant Mind (TCoE)/Shadow (XGtE) Sorcerer->Warlock: AB Sorcerer has access to some Warlock-exclusive spells and shares the telepathy and resistance to psychic damage of the GOO Patron. Shadow, meanwhile, is the only other way to replicate the Darkness/Devil's Sight combo.


Celestial Warlock->Cleric, XGtE: Cleric spells, bonus radiant damage, healing.

[sambojin]

A really lazy way is to let someone multiclass with one (and only one) level of the Adventurer class from GM Binder after lvl5:
https://www.gmbinder.com/share/-L7MxaZV26WwHwzaP-eD

They'll come up with all kinds of op af stuff, but that's it. That's all they get. One level of "make your own multiclassed subclass", then they're vanilla "whatever they were to begin with" the rest of the way to lvl19 in their original subclass.

It might even super-power their main/sub class, but whatever. It lets them do anything, or more of it, and it's scary af. Let them work it out. It's almost a gestalt style character, but neatly capped at approximately lvl3 subclass abilities. They're getting them for a 1lvl dip, which is a bit too good, but boy will they have fun doing it.

It comes on late enough at lvl6+ that their original class/subclass is doing all the heavy lifting, it's stuck at Adventurer lvl1 so the really powerful or spell casting feats aren't available, but it covers virtually any combo of stuff they could want, front-loaded to hell with the 4 Adventurer's feats at lvl1 of the class, that they can flavour themselves towards anything (especially on top of their lvl5+ real class/subclass goodness). They can *only* choose Adventurer feats with this super multiclass, and can't multiclass with anything else, but it fulfills every niche in one document so you as a DM don't have to do anything else.

They'll never have access to these feats again, or the variety of them, so choose wisely....


(Looking at Beast Shape, Beast of Sea and Sky, Acolyte (choose a domain, you can cast the spells or the divinity 1/Sr or with spell slots, and Quickened Action or Arcane Recovery as pretty top choices. All the short rest abilities, flight/swim/movement and combat styles, and then either bonus actions or more spell slots. Yeah, you can break it more, but wildshape + cleric + thief/mini-wizard does it really nicely for any character)

((PS: I really like the look of the Arcana Druid. I'll have to try that out some time mono-classed. Kinda powerful, but not that powerful, just really useful in a party. Shared Shape at lvl6 looks really fun as a combat heal "spell", sorta doubles your concentration but you could Voltron it with another wildshape charge on you, that includes size and movement, alongside all its other applications. Remember that wildshape keeps all the character's other abilities, so a fighter can still Action Surge or Extra Attack, you're just giving them a lot of different combat styles and movement and free HP by lvl8))

[LibraryOgre]

Thanks, y'all. I'm creating a document (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uZXdI7k7s9iYw6VTEr7wx7Atx660VRxrTa2S44IDd-I/edit?usp=sharing) to cover this now, and will update the OP from time to time.

[Psyren]

I personally view Order of Scribes as a Wizard->Artificer. Scribes began its life in UA as an Artificer subclass before being transferred to wizard, and it has a couple of "artificer-y" features like the ability to infuse scrolls and craft them more cheaply.

[Forechosen]

I don't want to derail the thread, but I'm personally on the lookout for a fighter>rogue subclass at the moment. Obviously it would be homebrew, but if anybody knows any good, popular or balanced ones they've seen, I'd love a look.

[Khrysaes]

I personally view Order of Scribes as a Wizard->Artificer. Scribes began its life in UA as an Artificer subclass before being transferred to wizard, and it has a couple of "artificer-y" features like the ability to infuse scrolls and craft them more cheaply.

Which is funny since the artificer started as a Wizard subclass. Or several of them? Lore and Invention.

Personally, I liked Archivist Artificer and am sad it didn't make it.

[LibraryOgre]

I don't want to derail the thread, but I'm personally on the lookout for a fighter>rogue subclass at the moment. Obviously it would be homebrew, but if anybody knows any good, popular or balanced ones they've seen, I'd love a look.

I can see about making one, as well. Fighter/Thief is a favorite of mine from the old days.


Which is funny since the artificer started as a Wizard subclass. Or several of them? Lore and Invention.

Personally, I liked Archivist Artificer and am sad it didn't make it.

I know that 2e's S&M (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/16864/Players-Option--Spells--Magic-2e?affiliate_id=315505) had an artificer subclass for wizards. One difference I find from the more modern versions of artificers (and alchemists) is the need to maintain and have access to a workshop. Don't have that and you can't use your special abilities.

[Psyren]

Which is funny since the artificer started as a Wizard subclass. Or several of them? Lore and Invention.

Personally, I liked Archivist Artificer and am sad it didn't make it.



I know that 2e's S&M (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/16864/Players-Option--Spells--Magic-2e?affiliate_id=315505) had an artificer subclass for wizards. One difference I find from the more modern versions of artificers (and alchemists) is the need to maintain and have access to a workshop. Don't have that and you can't use your special abilities.

The UA Artificer (i.e. Wizard subclass) is available here (https://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/UA_Eberron_v1.pdf) for the curious.

[LibraryOgre]

The UA Artificer (i.e. Wizard subclass) is available here (https://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/UA_Eberron_v1.pdf) for the curious.

This is part of what I'm talking about the need for workshops. 2e alchemist or artificer, you had to create the recipe and sink some money into making potions or items. This? Stare at water.

[paladinn]

This seems a little like the sub/multiclass model of Pathfinder 2e. You can actually borrow a subclass from another class. Not a bad way to go, but I'm not sure if/how it would work out within the 5e framework.

[Witty Username]

Clockwork soul sorcerers ties to the logical mathematical and the study or things could be considered a Sorcerer/wizard multiclass.