Fighting an Ancient Dragon in Its Lair

[ProsecutorGodot]

Our 18th level party of Redemption Paladin (me), Open Hand Monk, EK Fighter, and Wild Magic Sorcerer will likely be attempting to slay an ancient red dragon. I'm looking for strategies that I might have overlooked.

Here's some things to note:
-The dragons lair is an incredibly large outdoor space
-it won't be alone, probably surrounded by cultists and possibly mid to high ranking devils.
-we can acquire a variety of magic items and scrolls to prepare but have no allies willing to die for this cause.
-the dragon is definitely a spellcaster
-we could acquire flight for the party but it would involve find greater steed and concentration from the fighter or sorcerer.
-The Sorcerer has wish, it cannot be used for simulacrum
-I have access to a magic item that has roughly a 50% chance of grounding the dragon for a turn. It takes my action to use and I have to be within 15ft of it.

Any strategy or advice is well appreciated.

[Athan Artilliam]

Lure it away
Ground it
Drop a mountain on it
Fix your thread title

[Xervous]

Are there any plot details that would make it plausible for the dragon to approach the paladin or does this read at face value of potential suicide by adventure for the given party? Jumping into a fight against a mobile legendary creature + many adds with a mainly melee party demands cheese, story context or GM sandbagging.

[KorvinStarmast]

What does
Do you think Short Rests
Have to do with


18th level party of Redemption Paladin (me),
Open Hand Monk,
EK Fighter,
Wild Magic Sorcerer
versus
Ancient red dragon {Spell Caster} Short rests are linked to this: how? Also, what magical item is it that you have?

I'm looking for strategies that I might have overlooked.


- The dragons lair is an incredibly large outdoor space
- it won't be alone, probably surrounded by cultists and possibly mid to high ranking devils.
- we can acquire a variety of magic items and scrolls to prepare but have no allies willing to die for this cause.
- the dragon is definitely a spellcaster
- we could acquire flight for the party but it would involve find greater steed and concentration from the fighter or sorcerer.
- The Sorcerer has wish, it cannot be used for simulacrum
- I have access to a magic item that has roughly a 50% chance of grounding the dragon for a turn. It takes my action to use and I have to be within 15ft of it.
Use of wish to lay a Dominate Spell on the strongest of the demons and have it attack the dragon is one of many ways to help peel this onion.

You need to get the Monk close to the dragon to make some attempts at stun lock.
Any spell (Mind Sliver/Bane/etc that degrades saving throws is important here).
Low level spells to burn through legendary saves. Things like Tasha's Hideous Laughter, Otto's Dance, and so on.

Technically, you might be able to get the Monk in close for some stun attempts if the initiative order lets the monk get right on top of the Casting of Otto's: no save at first until it is able to take an action.

6th-*‐‑level enchantment
Casting Time: 1 action Range: 30 feet Components: V
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 minute
Choose one creature that you can see within range. The target begins a comic dance in place: shuffling, tapping its feet, and capering for the duration. Creatures that can’t be charmed are immune to this spell.
All ancient red dragons are immune to is Fire.


A dancing creature must use all its movement to dance without leaving its space and has disadvantage on Dexterity saving throws and attack rolls. While the target is affected by this spell, other creatures have advantage on attack rolls against it. As an action, a dancing creature makes a Wisdom saving throw to regain control of itself. On a successful save, the spell ends.
Granted, a DM may rule that the legendary saves allows it to save right away but as I read it, the legendary save triggers when a save is missed. If the dance goes off, hit the dragon with something that targets Dex before it gets its turn, and have the Monk lay into it trying to achieve a stun.
Not a guarantee of PWNage but one way of many to hedge your bets.

use Dimension Door to grab one ally "Monk or EK" and move them 500' to 'right next to the dragon to begin chewing up HP. Attempts at grapple aren't gonna work, but there may be other ways (sentinel if Dragon uses a reaction to attack one of you?) to lock him down for a turn. (Speed = 0) :smallbiggrin:

To clarify: Sorc grabs Fighter (or whomever has Sentinel) and DD's there. If the Dragon uses a legendary action to attack the squishy (not sure how this works with Wing Attack though) sentinel counterattack success means speed = 0.

Caution: if the dragon is a spell caster, expect at least one Counterspell. :smallwink:

And give someone Freedom of Movement before the fight starts, probably the fighter or the Monk.

[KorvinStarmast]

Is there anything in the storey that makes the dragon approaching the paladin plausible, or does this read as a likely suicide by adventure for the supplied party? Fighting a mobility legendary creature + multiple adds with a primarily melee group demands cheese, storey background, or GM sandbagging. Or liberal use of Mass Suggetion to get a lot of the mooks to wander off for a few hours while the Party focuses on the Dragon. :smallbiggrin:

[Lord Vukodlak]

Do you have wall of force? A floating horizontal wall can be used to force the dragon to fly low inorder to get you with its breath weapon.
Can you locate its Horde? robbing the dragon and forcing it to chase you into a more enclosed space is a good idea.

[ProsecutorGodot]

What does
Do you think Short Rests
Have to do with
Short rests are linked to this: how?
Posting the thread from work, it auto filled with some other thread idea I scrapped and I missed it, should be fixed now.


Also, what magical item is it that you have?
I assume you mean the grounding item. It's a shield given from a powerful bronze dragon. It has an ability I can use as an action to push or pull creatures in a 15ft half circle in front of me. They make an athletics or acrobatics check against my spell save DC or they're pulled as close to me as they can be and fall prone. They also have a movement of zero until the end of their next turn.

It's incredibly powerful and bypasses legendary resistance since it's a check and not a saving throw, but dragons have a high strength score so the chance of it working isn't reliable.


Technically, you might be able to get the Monk in close for some stun attempts if the initiative order lets the monk get right on top of the Casting of Otto's: no save at first until it is able to take an action.

6th-*‐‑level enchantment
Casting Time: 1 action Range: 30 feet Components: V
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 minute
Choose one creature that you can see within range. The target begins a comic dance in place: shuffling, tapping its feet, and capering for the duration. Creatures that can’t be charmed are immune to this spell.
All ancient red dragons are immune to is Fire.


A dancing creature must use all its movement to dance without leaving its space and has disadvantage on Dexterity saving throws and attack rolls. While the target is affected by this spell, other creatures have advantage on attack rolls against it. As an action, a dancing creature makes a Wisdom saving throw to regain control of itself. On a successful save, the spell ends.
Granted, a DM may rule that the legendary saves allows it to save right away but as I read it, the legendary save triggers when a save is missed. If the dance goes off, hit the dragon with something that targets Dex before it gets its turn, and have the Monk lay into it trying to achieve a stun.
Not a guarantee of PWNage but one way of many to hedge your bets.

Now this, combined with the shield, might be an easy way to guarantee he can't fly for at least a turn out two.

Do you have wall of force? A floating horizontal wall can be used to force the dragon to fly low inorder to get you with its breath weapon.
Can you locate its Horde? robbing the dragon and forcing it to chase you into a more enclosed space is a good idea.
We could probably make use of wall of force, pretty sure the Sorcerer can cast it. We don't know where the hoard is though.


Are there any plot details that would make it plausible for the dragon to approach the paladin or does this read at face value of potential suicide by adventure for the given party? Jumping into a fight against a mobile legendary creature + many adds with a mainly melee party demands cheese, story context or GM sandbagging.

This is technically an "optional" objective, though my Paladin does have motivation to do this based on his backstory. If it does end up being a suicide mission it would be my own fault for convincing the party to come along after not having suitably prepared. I don't think everyone is convinced about attacking the particular dragon I brought up, there's potential to find a younger less dangerous target. The objective is "slay a dragon" and I opted to start at biggest known target.

We're a bit ahead of the curve in power for an 18th level party I think, our Fighter in particular isn't going to have many issues in this encounter because she has an ability to fly on her own that doesn't require concentration and a strength score of 25 through a belt of fire giant strength. If we had a method to make her Huge she'd actually have a good chance of grappling/shoving the dragon. The Monk is the least "stacked" in terms of magical items but has a Vorpal Sword. Something I neglected to mention which will probably make a significant difference is that we have enough Potions of Invulnerability to start the encounter with one for each party member.

I'm also not entirely sure if the GM will be making use of the optimal tactics for an Ancient Dragon, I'm hoping he does and it isn't sandbagging whether intentional or not.