Need help with standard array Dwarf Barbarian or Fighter build

[Squeak]

Hi

I am about to start a game using the standard array where I will be playing a Dwarf Barbarian or Fighter. I was thinking of going either Totem Barbarian or Battlemaster Fighter and came up with the following stat and feat allocations for a Mountain Dwarf, which I would like feedback on:


Totem Barbarian


STR 15+2
DEX 12
CON 14+2
INT 8
WIS 13
CHR 10


Feats:

PAM
+2 STR
GWM - Edited as had put GWF by accident originally
Resilient WIS
Chef - Will try to replace with Slasher


Also is PAM worth it on a (Totem) Barbarian or is GWM enough?




Battlemaster Fighter



STR 15+2
DEX 12
CON 14+2
INT 8
WIS 13
CHR 10


Feats:

PAM
+2 STR
GWM - Edited as had put GWF by accident originally
Resilient WIS
Chef - Will try to replace with Slasher
Lucky
???????



For Fighters am I right in thinking that:

PAM > ASI (STR) > GWF (Sigh - edited as had put GWF by accident originally)

and is the same true for Barbarians who get can advantage on demand?


Thanks!

Any comments or feedback would be appreciated.
Thanks all!

[Unoriginal]

Three questions:

-What level range do you think you'll play your Dwarf in?

-Are the ASI/Feat listed in the order you intent to take them?

-What do you want GWF for, exactly?

[Kessel]

Has your DM opened choices up to the MOTM? If so, the Duergar got some love.
-sunlight sensitivity is gone
-now 30’ of movement
-can place ASIs with 2/1 or 1/1/1
-advantage on stun rolls now as well as charmed.
But the big draw being Enlarge/Reduce for grappling over a Mountain Dwarf.

[Squeak]

Three questions:

-What level range do you think you'll play your Dwarf in?

-Are the ASI/Feat listed in the order you intent to take them?

-What do you want GWF for, exactly?


We are starting at level 3 and finishing most likely at 10+.

The ASI are listed in my currently intended order, but would like to hear the advantages of alternative arrangements or feats.

GWF is so I can use the -5 HIT / +10 DAM option with Reckless Attack. Also the campaign rules mean that flanking gives advantage which make this even more useful.






Has your DM opened choices up to the MOTM? If so, the Duergar got some love.
-sunlight sensitivity is gone
-now 30’ of movement
-can place ASIs with 2/1 or 1/1/1
-advantage on stun rolls now as well as charmed.
But the big draw being Enlarge/Reduce for grappling over a Mountain Dwarf.


Thanks for that idea. Sadly the DM will not allow Duergar, but I will bear it in mind for future characters.

[ender241]

GWF is so I can use the -5 HIT / +10 DAM option with Reckless Attack. Also the campaign rules mean that flanking gives advantage which make this even more useful.

That's GWM (Great Weapon Master). GWF is a fighting style that is typically regarded as not that great. GWM makes perfect sense for a barb or fighter so that part of the plan seems solid.

What is the reason for taking Chef though? Unless it's integral to your character backstory or something, I might reconsider. As is, you will have an odd Con score for a bit in between the +1 str/con and Chef, and the payoff of Chef is kind of meh imo. I'd maybe look at Slasher or Crusher to max str and then maybe Tough later if you still want/need a boost to hp.

Edit: PAM is a solid choice as well. As is Sentinel, for any tank.

[Squeak]

That's GWM (Great Weapon Master). GWF is a fighting style that is typically regarded as not that great. GWM makes perfect sense for a barb or fighter so that part of the plan seems solid.

What is the reason for taking Chef though? Unless it's integral to your character backstory or something, I might reconsider. As is, you will have an odd Con score for a bit in between the +1 str/con and Chef, and the payoff of Chef is kind of meh imo. I'd maybe look at Slasher or Crusher to max str and then maybe Tough later if you still want/need a boost to hp.

Edit: PAM is a solid choice as well. As is Sentinel, for any tank.


Thanks for pointing out the typo and I will try to swap in the Slasher feat instead of Chef.

For Fighters am I right in thibnking:
PAM > ASI (STR) > GWF

and is the same true for Barbarians who get advantage on demand?


Thanks.

[ender241]

Thanks for pointing out the typo and I will try to swap in the Slasher feat instead of Chef.

For Fighters am I right in thibnking:
PAM > ASI (STR) > GWF

and is the same true for Barbarians who get advantage on demand?


Thanks.

I'm assuming you meant GWM again, not GWF lol.

One thing to consider: 99.9% of the time there is no difference between 18 and 19 STR. It's a +4 modifier either way. So if you start with 17 in STR you really want to get it to 18 first (either with a half feat or boosting another odd stat at the same time). Then later you can boost it to 20 with a single ASI to make it a +5. Using your entire ASI to boost it from 17 to 19 is like leaving money on the table. You'll eventually get it back, but you could be using it now for something else.

As for the order of things, it's really up to you. A lot of people will advocate for getting your primary stat to 20 before focusing on anything else, but I think taking PAM and/or GWM between boosting STR is perfectly fine here. Barbarians have the on-demand advantage like you said so having the to-hit boost is slightly less important. And fighters get feats more frequently so you can still have 20 STR by level 12 very easily.

If you're looking for other feats (especially if you go fighter, since you get so many) sentinel is another great choice. Especially combined with PAM when using a reach polearm, you can hit enemies and halt their movement before they even reach you. And then next turn get in their face and keep them locked down, and hit them even if they attack someone else. Just be aware that with a reach weapon they can move 5 ft away and be in a kind of goldilocks safe zone. There are also some totem barbarian options that only trigger when the enemy is within 5 ft. Just something to keep in mind - reach is not always better.

You could also look at Fey Touched for fighter, to grab hex which would give a nice DPR boost.

These choices also hinge somewhat on some of your subclass choices. Action economy is especially important to consider. For instance, there are several totem choices that have very useful bonus action abilities, especially some of the level 14 ones (and rage is a BA to activate as well). If you plan to go with one of those, PAM might be less desirable. A few of the battlemaster maneuvers use BAs also, but the better ones imo are the ones that add effects/dmg on any kind of weapon attack.

Basically, there are a lot of factors to consider. But at the end of the day, it's honestly probably more important to pick what sounds fun. You often don't know how long a campaign will even run, or if your character will die in session 3.

[Psyren]

What gear will you be wearing? As you'll be in melee you don't want to be too easy to hit. If you're doing medium armor you generally want 14 Dex to maximize your AC. If you're doing heavy armor then the 12 won't do anything for your AC but will at least give you a bit of initiative and your save. And if you're going unarmored, you'll want a higher Dex and Con than that if you can, Especially if you don't plan on wearing a shield due to PAM.

[Melphizard]

Have done a few fighters and barbarians myself and here's what I can say:

PAM on a Barbarian: This kind of build is best done as a controller/tank. Personally I've seen great success if used with the Path of the Ancestral Guardian's Ancestral Protectors. This gives the first enemy you strike disadvantage to hit anybody except for you and gives your allies resistance to that enemy's attacks. The end result allows you to effectively force the boss to strike you unless it intends to fight with permanent disadvantage (since you usually hit) against a full resistance party.

GWM on a Barbarian: Hit really hard. Being a totem warrior offsets the fact your likely going to give your enemies permanent advantage to hit your low to medium range AC. Its super consistent damage and gets greater with PAM's secure bonus action attack. Just be careful about your hit bonus though because even with advantage if you only have a +6 to hit at level 8 it'll be rough at times.



PAM + GWM on a Fighter: When playing PAM with a fighter you need to make the same choice as a barbarian: Damage or Tank. If you opt for the former, the maneuvers such as precision or tripping attack will prove valuable in securing multiple hits if you use GWM in concert. Having more ASIs you'll be better off than the barbarian stat wise so that is some improvement to your hit but only by +1 while the barbarian has the rage damage bonus. If you instead choose the selfless latter option, I'd personally say you should go for cavalier. That's not to say battlemaster is bad as a PAM tank since the subclass fighter is great at controlling and applying various status effects to their enemies; however, cavalier's mark can infinitely disadvantage lock as many enemies as you hit, only fueled further by your more powerful bonus action strike if they're foolish enough to still strike your allies. Despite the subclasses's name, you don't need a mount; but, it would prove useful due to your 25 movement speed which isn't offset unlike the Barbarian's.


General summary:
Both the fighter and barbarian have good damage potential and I believe your stat distributions are very effectively done. Since your max level is 10, Barbarian will prove to have more consistent damage and better tanking ability as a bear totem warrior while the fighter would have more tricks and can both get their setup sooner and do quick bursts of damage effectively. I have a bias toward cavalier fighter so if you opt to go with a fighter I would highly recommend it.