I need help clarifying two weapon fighting

[jaekaido]

So I was under the impression that if you have say +6/+1 you get two attacks. If I add two weapon fighting from the start, with a +1 attack bonus I would have two attacks using a full round action. Then when reaching 6th level, I get a second attack with the primary hand and one attack with the off hand at +6/+6/+1 without adding penalties yet. Then if I add improved two weapon fighting the attack bonus before penalties is +6/+6/+1/+1. With penalties it would be +4/+4/-1-1

I was recently told that with a +8/+3 attack bonus, having two-weapon fighting, and improved two-weapon fighting, I would have one attack with with my primary hand and two attacks with my off-hand with the following +6/+1/-5. This is with all penalties. The penalties I was told were -2/-7/-5 for having +8/+3 BAB, two-weapon fighting, and improved two weapon fighting.

The way I have always played it was i would have four attacks at +6 primary/+6 off /+1 primary/+1 off

Who is correct or are we both wrong?

[Tzardok]

To me your first calculation looks correct. I don't know what the second guy was thinking, but... no, no idea.

[Hish]

You are definitely correct. I’m having trouble even figuring out what pattern the alternative follows.

[Pezzo]

-2/-7/-5 penalties :\
-2 implies you have twf feat and a light offhand weapon, -7 could be the iterative on the main hand, for the -5 i think your dm thinks your off hand is a secondary natural attack

[Gruftzwerg]

So I was under the impression that if you have say +6/+1 you get two attacks. If I add two weapon fighting from the start, with a +1 attack bonus I would have two attacks using a full round action. Then when reaching 6th level, I get a second attack with the primary hand and one attack with the off hand at +6/+6/+1 without adding penalties yet. Then if I add improved two weapon fighting the attack bonus before penalties is +6/+6/+1/+1. With penalties it would be +4/+4/-1-1

I was recently told that with a +8/+3 attack bonus, having two-weapon fighting, and improved two-weapon fighting, I would have one attack with with my primary hand and two attacks with my off-hand with the following +6/+1/-5. This is with all penalties. The penalties I was told were -2/-7/-5 for having +8/+3 BAB, two-weapon fighting, and improved two weapon fighting.

The way I have always played it was i would have four attacks at +6 primary/+6 off /+1 primary/+1 off

Who is correct or are we both wrong?

You get 4 attacks. All get your TWF penalties (assuming -2/-2 here). With a BAB of +8/+3 this means that your calculation is correct. +6(P)/+6(O)/+1(P)/+1(O)

[KillianHawkeye]

Yeah whoever told you that has a serious flaw in their understanding.

[jaekaido]

Are there any official rules stating that it works this way? I can only find the rules in the PHB for the first two attacks and no further. Are there other explanations else where that i can use for my argument as it is an issue between me and another player not the DM as the DM is not around to make a call currently.

[Gruftzwerg]

Are there any official rules stating that it works this way? I can only find the rules in the PHB for the first two attacks and no further. Are there other explanations else where that i can use for my argument as it is an issue between me and another player not the DM as the DM is not around to make a call currently.

Complete Warrior has an example character (page 63) with sole Two Weapon Fighting as example.

Rules of the Game archive (https://web.archive.org/web/20160613041551/http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/arch/rg) (original source is atm down, thus the link is from way-back-mashine) has 3 articles on two-handed fighting. The 3rd (https://web.archive.org/web/20161031215252/http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20060912a) has an example character with Greater Two Weapon Fighting to get 6 attacks on a full attack.

[Darrin]

Are there any official rules stating that it works this way? I can only find the rules in the PHB for the first two attacks and no further. Are there other explanations else where that i can use for my argument as it is an issue between me and another player not the DM as the DM is not around to make a call currently.

Obligatory link: TWF OffHandbook (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?279079-3-5-The-TWF-OffHandbook).

That's probably too much text for what you're looking for, so I'll try to sum up:

When your BAB is high enough, you get multiple iterative attacks with your primary weapon. However, if you have multiple weapons readied, or are wearing something that can be used as a weapon (armor spikes, shield, etc.), you can choose to attack with different weapons, attacking with either weapon first, switching weapons in between, etc., as you see fit. This is why the PHB says on page 143, "If you are using two weapons, you can strike with either weapon first." As the previous sentence specifies, you must make all your attacks "in order from highest bonus to lowest." What this text means that if your BAB is +6, you are currently holding a sword in one hand, and a dagger in the other, you can attack with either the sword first at +6 and the dagger second at +1, or you can attack with the dagger first at +6 and the sword second at +1. If you were also wearing armor spikes, you could swap those in for sword +6/spikes +1, or whatever.

This is the important part: even though you are literally attacking with two weapons, YOU HAVE NOT YET USED THE TWF RULES, because you have not designated any of your weapons as an offhand weapon. You are just making iterative attacks with whatever weapons you have readied and available.

If you wish to get an additional offhand attack, in addition to your iterative attacks, then you use the TWF rules on PHB p. 160. The exact penalties depend on whether your offhand weapon is considered light and whether you have the TWF feat. Once you have designated a weapon as an offhand attack, there may be some additional rules to apply, such as how your Str bonus on damage is calculated. Your offhand weapon does not literally need to be held in your hand (armor spikes, shield bash, unarmed "kick", etc.). Normally you can only get one offhand attack, but you can get a second offhand attack with Improved TWF and a third offhand attack with Greater TWF. As I understand it, once you've designated what weapon you're using as your offhand attack, you can't switch it to a different weapon like you can with your primary/iterative attacks.

I am not sure I understand why the other player is saying you don't get your second iterative attack with your primary weapon. I'm not able to come up with an explanation that would survive any contact with logic or reason, unless he is thinking that your two attacks from +6/+1 is supposed to be your primary hand weapon and your offhand weapon. This doesn't make sense, as a fighter with a sword in one hand and a shield (or nothing) in the other gets two attacks with BAB +6/+1.