I am doing a chase sequence. One PC has 10ft movespeed less than the rest.

[Dominion]

They are the ones chasing, not getting chased.

Setting is underground with lots of difficult terrain, climbing checks, random events etc.

I just realized one of them is in full armor and only has 20ft movementspeed compared to other PC (30ft) as well as all enemies (30ft).

What can I do to prevent the player from just going "guess I'll sit this one out" and watching idle from the sidelines?

Have any of you encountered similar things in chase sequences and how have you solved it?

Thanks in advance, cheers :)

[kenjigoku]

I don't use combat speed for chases. In fact, I treat chases like a separate game mechanic.

I like to roll dice and see where things land. Basically, each actor takes an action and then rolls a d20 to determine the efficacy of that action. For example

Runner - Action > change direction and attempt to clear this difficult area without slowing down. d20 result = 5. No luck, they only progress 1 unit of distance. The nearest PC is now 3 units away.

PC1 - Action > Plot an intercept course based on direction change. d20result = 15. Nice, they are now 2 units closer to their target. They were the closest PC so they are now 2 units away.

etc.

This way, our plate user is basically just sprinting for a short while, which while not part of "the rules" does a great job of making sense. I mean they are strong enough to wear the plate I am sure they can hustle a bit when it's just running and not much else. Essentially the plate users actions are
Action > Hustle and try not to let the weight of my armor catch me in a bad way. d20 result = 10. Success, you progress 1 unit.

[Beni-Kujaku]

If one of the players is Large or has high stats, they can probably carry the armored one as a light load. If one of them is a wizard, then Tenser's Disk should work, or cast Fly on the slow one.

[nedz]

You have to respect the player's character choices. They choose to wear heavy armour and be slow - this is the consequence.

What I would expect to happen is that they tag along behind eventually catching up to the action - assuming the chase concludes. Alternatively the enemy could run away for a while before turning on the faster PC leading to combat at better odds, or the chase reversing for a while.

[Kurald Galain]

What can I do to prevent the player from just going "guess I'll sit this one out" and watching idle from the sidelines?
By resolving the scene quickly.

This player chose to have a particular benefit (higher AC) in exchange for a particular drawback (lower movement). He is not entitled to "star" in every single scene, nor to ignore the drawback whenever it becomes inconvenient.

Or, get creative. Have the player use ranged attacks, grab a horse from a nearby bystander, shout intimidate checks at the enemy, whatever. But he won't be the one who's catching up, that's the job for his faster teammates. Or make a joke out of it where the character hobbles after the rest, panting and wheezing "wait for meeeee"! Or if one of the other characters falls unconscious, have the slow character play medic.


You have to respect the player's character choices. They choose to wear heavy armour and be slow - this is the consequence.
Yes, that. It would seriously piss me off if my character had invested in a faster speed, and the GM decided to negate that because "it's not FAAAAIR".

[Berenger]

Basing chases purely on the movement speed of characters is just a very bad design choice.

It's unrealistic and unintuitive, as evidenced by the fact that a given group of children can play several rounds of catch with varying results. Ordinary human hunters with spears can hunt down animals with a higher base speed even on flat plains. Heck, I eventually manage to chase down and corner my cat for visits to the vet and the little guy has all the advantages in game terms. It also makes for a bad gameplay experience. Characters with a lower movement score signed up for being at a disadvantage in a chase, not for non-participation or automatic defeat. That's just equivalent to not playing out fights and just granting victory to the participant with the highest base attack bonus. You know, to respect their choice of playing a wins-all-fights class instead of a wins-all-chases class.

On a perfectly level, uniform running track without any obstacles, where all participants arrive perfectly rested, start at exactly the same time and are forbidden from interacting with each other, maybe the one with the highest movement rate should win over short distances. During an average adventure chase scene, there are generally things like shortcuts that a character with certain nature or street skills can locate, obstacles and difficult terrain, hazards that can either be braved or time-consumingly circumnavigated, ways to slow down opponents, injuries and different levels of fatigue. Also, humans generally don't run at a perfectly steady paces in such environments. They have bursts of speed, they need to catch their breath for a minute, they stumble and have to get up, need to stop and get their bearings, lest they run into a dead end... taking this into account yields very different results.

Obviously, characters with a high movement speed should be at a marked advantage. But they shouldn't be unstoppable except by magic and being shot to death. For an example of simple and usable chase rules that take stuff like this into account, you can download the LFG rulebook (legal, for free) and check out the chase rules (starting on page 83 in my version).

https://lowfantasygaming.com/freepdf/

[Dominion]

Thanks for everyone's input. You helped a lot :)

And happy Valentine's day!

[Telonius]

If he's slow, give him something to do as the rearguard. Other, quicker things are pursuing the team. Give him a bottleneck to defend, and mooks coming his way. Nothing too dangerous; make sure it's something he can handle by himself. Won't change any of the outcome, but it'll make him feel useful.

[Feldar]

If you know the chase is coming in advance, you can go all cinematic with it. A little prep work will make you look like a monster gm. You know your pursuer is in plate, so you can have a Balance-type situation, or a narrow gap to squeeze through...

[Seward]

If the player suggests something innovative to keep up, apply your discretion (eg, strip off some armor, swing from a rope, try to ride a wild animal, attempt run actions in terrain that isn't favorable with appropriate balance checks). A common solution to this problem is to have a strong and fast party member simply carry the offending PC (which is undignified and ties up the hands of the strong person and leaves the other in no position to fight until put down, but you are at least around for the end of the chase). Depending on just how strong the carrying PC is, it might be a practical fireman's carry or a less practical and funnier bridal carry, especially if the strong one is a petite elf, carrying a giant halforc in fullplate. Or, if the strong one is big and the weak one smaller, they might be tucked under one arm and carried like you'd carry a light but awkward rug.

The person carrying doesn't need to be a size category larger. In real life, people carry other people all the time, and some can move pretty quickly if they've got them in a proper carry position. Size categories matter when using somebody as a mount, not for a lift and carry situation. That's limited by carrying capacity in D&D, and what kind of grip you can get (GM can require use of hands, by one or both characters while it is going on, and actions to untangle themselves, generally a move action that may provoke aoos)

In Pathfinder I had a couple characters that with use of ant-haul and already high strength could move party members about as easily as if they were balloon-figures of the same size. Which was startling to said pc's when it happened and they didn't expect it.

Some creative spell use can help (I've seen levitate+tow rope used, tenser's disk is limited to max 60'/round but that's faster than a fullplate guy can hustle and can be kept up longer than he can run, a fly spell or haste pretty much solves the problem while they last, I'm sure there is plenty of other stuff)

[Gruftzwerg]

Consider a Mithral Armor upgrade.
Problem solved? Or any other items with some extra speed.
Finally Expeditious Retreat cast by a party member at lower lvls can carry him until he can effort the mithral armor.

[Kitsuneymg]

You could try https://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/other-rules/chases/

20 foot guy gets -2 for all the checks due to slower speed. That’s about it iirc.

[Seward]

Finally Expeditious Retreat cast by a party member at lower lvls can carry him until he can effort the mithral armor.

Right. The person carrying him needs to be EITHER strong enough to carry him at light load OR fast enough to be encumbered and still meet or exceed 30' movement speed, but not so encumbered he is staggering around or some of his speed boost ability vanishes because of it (as monk speed bonus does if they are overweight in load)

Being both fast and strong - in 1st edition we called that the "Monk Express" - we had spare gauntlets of ogre power and gave it to the monk, to carry the heavily armored martial-oriented cleric around. The monk got no combat bonuses from the increased strength in that edition but the mobility it gave our two melee characters was well worth the investment.

Reason # 3486 on why everybody loves haste. It helps make pursuits short and effective, even with some slowpokes in the party.

[Gruftzwerg]

Right. The person carrying him needs to be EITHER strong enough to carry him at light load OR fast enough to be encumbered and still meet or exceed 30' movement speed, but not so encumbered he is staggering around or some of his speed boost ability vanishes because of it (as monk speed bonus does if they are overweight in load)



Lol, sorry.. I guess I shouldn't have tried to use "carry" as a metaphor here. I meant to cast it directly on the slower party member. But your literal interpretation is a funny option too xD

edit: see below

[Seward]

Lol, sorry.. I guess I shouldn't have tried to use "carry" as a metaphor here. I meant to cast it directly on the slower party member. But your literal interpretation is a funny option too xD

Expeditious retreat is self-only. So yeah, I was imagining a low str arcane caster who could just barely lift a party member trundling along at 40' encumbered movement and hoping there was no stretch where the enemy could open it up into a full run (although he'd keep pace, as 3x40=4x30 move). Bonus points for using fist of stone to grab the party member (+6 str to grip or grapple) and grip him in the one hand while you run, carrying him like a waiter carrying a tray. Although some gm's might require a full bull str as it isn't clear fist of stone helps with encumbrance.

Making the action entertaining for the table is always a worthwhile goal.

[Gruftzwerg]

Expeditious retreat is self-only. So yeah, I was imagining a low str arcane caster who could just barely lift a party member trundling along at 40' encumbered movement and hoping there was no stretch where the enemy could open it up into a full run (although he'd keep pace, as 3x40=4x30 move). Bonus points for using fist of stone to grab the party member (+6 str to grip or grapple) and grip him in the one hand while you run, carrying him like a waiter carrying a tray. Although some gm's might require a full bull str as it isn't clear fist of stone helps with encumbrance.

Making the action entertaining for the table is always a worthwhile goal.

Oh, missed that it's personal only.. I just woke up. I'm sorry.

But yeah, assuming the typical low str caster would pull this out is kinda funny. Maybe polymorphing into a big creature is the better option here (if available)^^

[Fouredged Sword]

Remember the run action. He may not be as much slower as the rest of the group that you think.

So maybe there are not that many sections that are not difficult terrain, but there will be some. Say they are shortish, around 50-60ft long.

Well, most people won't bother running in those spots. Their movement is fast enough to just cross the distance.

But your fellow in heavy armor CAN still make that distance in one round via a run action. He's going to have a harder time crossing sections that he can't run to catch up in, but

But the big thing to consider is how you intend the chase scene to end and how you want it to go before that end.

Basically, I would advise against just having your players move across a battle map until they catch up with the enemy, then initiate a fight. That's a bore.

Consider instead a running battle. The bad guy wants to get away, but he doesn't just run. He does double moves when the party gets to close, but when he can get away with it he performs a single move and then a standard action to do something to hamper the party chasing him. He throws a tanglefoot bag. He casts a spell. He sunders a pillar of a open market stall causing the awning to collapse into the path of the players.

And you should encourage the players to do the same right back. If the enemy sundered an awning support to slow the players down then put awnings in his path. The players can use abilities to attack forward to knock down stuff in the enemy's way.

In essence you are creating an encounter where your player's speed determines how many actions they can sneak in while still keeping up with the bad guy. The slower player isn't completely locked out of the encounter, but he will spend MORE of his actions double moving or using the run action. He likely won't fall more than a bit behind if he can't manage to keep up because the actual encounter isn't moving at maximum possible speed. He will fall behind repeatedly, but can spend a round essentially rushing to keep up.

Second, ask yourself how the chase is planned to end. "Players stop and or defeat the enemy on the run" should remain an option, but ask yourself what happens when the enemy reaches the place he intends to run TO. Is he running back to reinforcements? Is he running to prepared groups? Does he have an escape planned? Long encounters tend to not be fun. I advise you plan no more than 6 or so rounds of chase.

Because planning for your players to fail should be something you do. I personally am preferential to chase encounters that end with the bad guy turning to fight at prepared ground with allies. The party chases a criminal through the streets of a city, ducking through shops and buildings, twisting through allyways...

But then the criminal ducks through one last door and the party rushes in behind him expecting to chase him through another building... only to discover that he stopped at this last location. It's a bar. The rest of his criminal gang is here. Suddenly combat encounter.

And then it becomes important how far behind the guy in armor is, and he's likely not more than a turn or two back.

[Elkad]

Yes, that. It would seriously piss me off if my character had invested in a faster speed, and the GM decided to negate that because "it's not FAAAAIR".

Yup.

I tend to make fast characters anyway. Sacrificing other things to get it.

I accept that sometimes I might be the only guy that can keep up. So I'd best have a plan to slow the bad guy, or otherwise handle him on my own.

And sometimes I'll be the only one who can get away.

Negating that would annoy me to no end.

[Asmotherion]

Well, character is left behind is the normal way to go.