Basic rules question as I finally enter 5e

[herrhauptmann]

I'm finally playing D&D again after a very long hiatus (sorry PairO'dice Lost, Lestroisrois, Snowbluff, etc) and I'm struggling with the switch to 5E.

Do characters only get the option for feats at the level their class says "Ability Score Improvement?" I'm fine with not being able to buy feat access like the old Otyugh Hole, but it's really breaking my brain here to not get a level 1 feat. (Unless I totally missed that line in the "Building Bruenor" section of the phb.)

Thank you,

[Dr.Samurai]

That's correct.

Feats are an optional rule, so they are not assumed, and you can take a feat instead of an ability score increase.

[KorvinStarmast]

Do characters only get the option for feats at the level their class says "Ability Score Improvement?" I'm fine with not being able to buy feat access like the old Otyugh Hole, but it's really breaking my brain here to not get a level 1 feat. (Unless I totally missed that line in the "Building Bruenor" section of the phb.)
If you play a variant Human (check with your DM) you get a feat at level 1. But, in a departure from other edtions, feats are explicitly not built into the classes and sub classes.

And while I am at it, before you go looking for them, there aren't prestige classes.

[herrhauptmann]

If you play a variant Human (check with your DM) you get a feat at level 1. But, in a departure from other edtions, feats are explicitly not built into the classes and sub classes.
Thank you.


And while I am at it, before you go looking for them, there aren't prestige classes.
Funny you mention that. I asked on one of the D*D focused subreddits, and got downvoted to hell for asking a basic question.


Sidenote.
I'm glad I'm back. My social media during this D&D hiatus was reddit, and I forgot how useful all the text editing was here. Plus less capricious mods.

The game is currently offered at the local library with a bunch of randos, I'll avoid the variant class/race stuff for now. Newbie DM, a lot of brand new players. It's bad enough I'm following a guide so I can make a gish, don't want to overwhelm the DM.

[Psyren]

If you play a variant Human (check with your DM) you get a feat at level 1. But, in a departure from other edtions, feats are explicitly not built into the classes and sub classes.

To round this out, there is a generic race option ("Custom Lineage", basically a very lightweight make-your-own-race option) that can also get a bonus feat at first level. You control their appearance, so this is a way to do stuff like a Lesser Planetouched, Star Elf, Gold Dwarf, Synad etc etc that may be awkward to pull off using the standard options.

[PhoenixPhyre]

To round this out, there is a generic race option ("Custom Lineage", basically a very lightweight make-your-own-race option) that can also get a bonus feat at first level. You control their appearance, so this is a way to do stuff like a Lesser Planetouched, Star Elf, Gold Dwarf, Synad etc etc that may be awkward to pull off using the standard options.

But again (this is a common refrain) check with the DM first.

[KorvinStarmast]

To round this out, there is a generic race option ("Custom Lineage", basically a very lightweight make-your-own-race option) that can also get a bonus feat at first level. You control their appearance, so this is a way to do stuff like a Lesser Planetouched, Star Elf, Gold Dwarf, Synad etc etc that may be awkward to pull off using the standard options. Not sure if there was a cross post, but he did mention Newbie DM, so I'd not suggest that Tasha's thing for such a game.

[herrhauptmann]

Not sure if there was a cross post, but he did mention Newbie DM, so I'd not suggest that Tasha's thing for such a game.

Nope, no cross post. Might have posted after they loaded the thread though.

The other factor? I don't have contact info with the dm. I'd have to make 2 characters and ask right before play.

I'm doing a hobgoblin abjurer as a gish, but open to suggestions for other builds. I'm really missing abjurant champion and chain wielding maniacs.

[Kane0]

Nope, no cross post. Might have posted after they loaded the thread though.

The other factor? I don't have contact info with the dm. I'd have to make 2 characters and ask right before play.

I'm doing a hobgoblin abjurer as a gish, but open to suggestions for other builds. I'm really missing abjurant champion and chain wielding maniacs.


- Proficiency bonus is used for skill/ability checks, attacks and saving throws instead of BAB, save progressions and skill points. It's all based off Stat + Proficiency, and the numbers are lower and scale slower. HP and abilities/options are the primary differentiation between low and high levels.
- Due to reduced scaling of basic numbers (skills, attacks, damage, AC) it is expected that low CR creatures remain a threat to higher level parties in significant numbers. This is intended.

- You have a saving throw type for each attribute.
- You can't have a stat higher than 20 by normal means, nor a stat higher than 30 by any means.
- Movement is not an action, and actions can happen between movement. Bonus actions are like swifts, reactions are like immediates. No action can be traded for another type. You can also make one interaction (grab a weapon, open a door, etc) per turn for free.
- Attacking does not impede your ability to move (ie ‘Full Attack’) and you can in fact move between attacks if you have multiple.
- Attacks are classified oddly but they mostly boil down to a combination of [melee or ranged] and [weapon or spell]
- You cannot delay, only ready an action.
- By default only one thing provokes an AoO: Moving out of a creatures reach.
- Learn the advantage / disadvantage mechanic, it replaces 90% of fiddly +1s and -2s.
- Dying works differently. You only die outright when you take damage equal to your max HP in one hit after reaching 0. When reduced to 0 you make saving throws, three successes stabilizes you and 3 failures you die. Taking damage while making death saves counts as one failure.
- Damage resistance, reduction and vulnerability is simplified. It's half damage, doesn't exist (as such) and double damage respectively.

- There are two kinds of rest: short and long. There is expected to be two short rests for every long on average, which is important to maintain balance short rest classes (monk, warlock) against long rest classes (paladin, sorcerer).
- Everybody can heal via hit die, which are spent during short rests.

- Concentration is a thing casters should learn well. Most buff, debuff and control spells need concentration, and you can only concentrate on one thing at a time. You have a chance to lose concentration each time you take damage.
- There are relatively few permanent or near-permanent bonuses/buffs
- All casting is 'spontaneous', as in you don’t put individual spells into slots, you just have a collection of spells available to you and spell slots to fuel them with. Your spells will either be prepared or known based on class.
- High casting stat doesn’t give you additional spell slots, but does affect your spell attack bonus and spell DC (which is the same across all spell levels).
- Spells scale by spell slot rather than by caster level, which makes multiclassing considerably more friendly for casters
- Cantrips are notable now, offering viable damage output based on PC level not caster level
- There is a rule that restricts how many levelled spells you can cast on your turn, but it’s… complicated.

- Levels 1-3 are supposed to go by very quickly, and 4-5 fairly quickly. The majority of PC time is angled to be spent in the level 6-11 range.
- Encounter design and challenge rating is also different. A CR 6 enemy is an easy (little resource expenditure & low chance of falling) challenge for a level 6 party of 4, not an easy challenge for a single level 6 character. You are expected to deal with half a dozen or so medium encounters during an adventuring day, not one or two hard ones.
- Don't use any optional rules to start with. This includes multiclassing and feats.
- The core math of the game does not expect you to get magic items by default. You can play through levels 1 to 20 without seeing a magic item at all, anything you get/give is a bonus.

Golden Rule: Thou shalt not assume to know that which shares a name
Sneak attack works differently. Protection from Evil works differently. Critical hits work differently. Do not skim over things that look familiar because they are almost all different in subtle ways that become very apparent in play.

Polearm master and sentinel feats coupled together gives you a similar lockdown to the spiked chain shenanigans, and good gishes are everywhere (hexblade warlock, bladesong wizard, swords bard, eldritch knight fighter, most paladins and some rangers, etc).

[Psyren]

I'd go Bladesinger if Abjurant Champion is your frame of reference. Abjurer can be worked into a gish build (I personally would love to try an Abjurer/Battlesmith or Armorer) but Bladesinger works out of the box and will be a good way for you to get a feel for the new edition without worrying about things like the multiclassing rules.

[KorvinStarmast]

Treat it like a new game. Please review the summary Kane0 offered, again. :smallsmile:
You need to let go of 3.x ~ this isn't that game even though the name is the same.

Enjoy. (And I agree that if you want a gish go with the bladesinger).

[JLandan]

Hobgoblin abjurer is a good combo. Only glaring weak point is HP, but Arcane Ward can make up for it.

If you're inclined to multiclass, two levels of Warlock can get you an invocation that grants at will self only Mage Armor that can replenish your Arcane Ward, still requires an action and only replenishes per a first level spell, but out of combat refill at will.

There's also a feat that can get you the invocation, Eldritch Adept, from Tasha's.

Bladesinging precludes the need for hobgoblin race but not till 2nd level.

[Greywander]

If you're open to multiclassing, cleric 1 / wizard X is a common combo. The cleric dip gets you medium armor, shields, 1st level cleric spells, and a divine domain. Your wizard progression is delayed by one level, but your spell slot progression is not. This means you'll get slots for a new spell level one level before you can actually learn spells of that level, e.g. at 5th level you'll get a 3rd level slot, but you wouldn't be able to learn 3rd level wizard spells until 6th level (which is when you'll be a 5th level wizard).

Then again, for your first game, you might want to stay away from multiclassing until you have a better grasp of the rules. In fact, wizard might not be the best class to start off with, though I'm sure you'll be fine. It's not like you're completely new to D&D, so the complexity of the wizard shouldn't be too much for you. One of the nice things about the Iron Wizard is that you can build it without multiclassing. If you decide to switch to Bladesinger, you can play another race besides hobgoblin, as the Bladesinger already gets light armor proficiency, and can't use Bladesong while wearing medium armor.

As others have said, this is not 3.x, so don't make any assumptions based on 3.x knowledge. 5e is a new game with a lot of changes, some big, some subtle. Make sure to read the rules carefully in order to understand how 5e handles something. Notably, spellcasting has changed, and all casters now work like spontaneous casters. As a wizard, you would simply prepare a list of spells, and then you can cast any of those spells as long as you have slots of the appropriate level (or higher) left.

As for feats, it's a common houserule to give everyone a free feat at 1st level, but this is by no means universal. Feats themselves are supposed to be optional, though everyone seems to assume that they'll be included. While I do love feats, you might find it easier to play without them for a few games, though that will ultimately be up to the DM.

[Christew]

If you're open to multiclassing, cleric 1 / wizard X is a common combo.
This is true, but I'd also point out that multiclassing (like feats) is technically an optional rule.

If you can't contact the DM and don't want to iterate multiple characters, I'd stick to vanilla PHB (no feats, no multiclassing).

[Psyren]

For a core-only straight-classed arcane gish, I would lean towards Valor Bard.

[JLandan]

For a core-only straight-classed arcane gish, I would lean towards Valor Bard.

I was thinking Swords Bard, Valor is good too. What race?

[Psyren]

What race?

It doesn't matter too much but probably Half-Elf, Human or Tiefling.

Swords is non-core but if that was on the table I'd go for it.

[JLandan]

It doesn't matter too much but probably Half-Elf, Human or Tiefling.

Swords is non-core but if that was on the table I'd go for it.

I wasn't thinking core only, yeah, Valor.

[herrhauptmann]

Thank you everyone.
So much more reading to do...

[Greywander]

Feel free to come back with any questions. Wrapping your head around a system you're not familiar with can be a lot of work, and I think it can be even more difficult for someone who's already familiar with 3.x since it's easy to mix the two up in your head.

You could always go for a simpler character, such as a barbarian, rogue, fighter, or monk. This lets you focus in on just the specific rules that will affect your character, giving you a chance to master the system basics before diving into complex subsystems like spellcasting. I'm sure you could handle it, it's just that there's a lot more reading you'd need to do.

[Kane0]

Especially if its an eldritch knight fighter or arcane trickster rogue. You get two levels of standard play to get familiar and then spellcasting added in as part of your class progression without feats or multiclassing.

[herrhauptmann]

Especially if its an eldritch knight fighter or arcane trickster rogue. You get two levels of standard play to get familiar and then spellcasting added in as part of your class progression without feats or multiclassing.

I've actually been struggling with the EK.
I have to take my spells from the abjuration and evocation lists, okay, that's fine I suppose. (Was expecting better gish spells in other schools, this feels half like the arcanamach. Fortunately, evocation is better than I expected.) But sometimes I don't have that school limit?

[Gurgeh]

Think of it as like the Warmage's Advanced Learning in 3.5: most of your spells are chosen from a limited pool, but you also get a small number of spells that can be taken from a wider list.

[GentlemanVoodoo]

The one thing to remember is 5e went back to the simpler roots of D&D so that is why things are pretty limited. Less is more is really the best way to view this edition.

[Kane0]

I've actually been struggling with the EK.
I have to take my spells from the abjuration and evocation lists, okay, that's fine I suppose. (Was expecting better gish spells in other schools, this feels half like the arcanamach. Fortunately, evocation is better than I expected.) But sometimes I don't have that school limit?

Yes, at certain levels you can pick any school but the majority will be evocation or abjuration (unless your DM doesnt care aboht that restriction). The good news is plenty of spells dont need a high Int to be good for you (magic missile, shield, unseen servant, etc).
See above spoiler regarding spell attacks/DCs, concentration, etc.

[5eNeedsDarksun]

I've actually been struggling with the EK.
I have to take my spells from the abjuration and evocation lists, okay, that's fine I suppose. (Was expecting better gish spells in other schools, this feels half like the arcanamach. Fortunately, evocation is better than I expected.) But sometimes I don't have that school limit?

Yes, if you go this route the first spell you get outside your school is 3rd level (the first level you get spells) and Find Familiar is a pretty standard pick for both in combat (help action to get you advantage) and out of combat utility. The next is 8th, which is a level after you get your 2nd level spells.
Those 2nd level spells (at level 7/8) are really your first chance to get leveled spells (beyond the familiar) that augment the offensive part of your weapon fighting, as the other 1st level picks are more defensive. That's kind of the downside of the EK; there are other gish types like Paladin and Ranger that get spells to boost attacks at level 2, so to me at least, start to feel like they're working properly a lot sooner. If you're patient and your campaign goes into higher levels EK can be a good option.