Vengeance Paladin 10th Level Build (CoS)

[Necrosnoop110]

I will be running a Paladin (Oath of Vengeance) in an Curse of Strahd campaign (no spoilers please).
Race must be Hobgoblin due to story constraints (and I want that regardless of crunch)
Starting stats: 16,16,15,14,13,9
The party is Wizard, Sorcerer, Rogue, Bard
Starting from first level, likely ending at 10th or little over


Q1: Any suggestions for stat array? Was thinking S16, D13, C14+2=16, I9+1=10, W15, C16
Q2: Should I dip into another class or just go straight Paladin. Tempted by Warlock/Hexblade. Even still, would want to be mostly Paladin. The party already has straight spellcasting covered and I want to be a solid tank and a heavy single damage dealer. Considering a shield and spear PAM build.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

Thanks,
Necro

[Guy Lombard-O]

I will be running a Paladin (Oath of Vengeance) in an Curse of Strahd campaign (no spoilers please).
Race must be Hobgoblin due to story constraints (and I want that regardless of crunch)
Starting stats: 16,16,15,14,13,9
The party is Wizard, Sorcerer, Rogue, Bard


Q1: Any suggestions for stat array? Was thinking S16, D13, C14+2=16, I9+1=10, W15, C16
Q2: Should I dip into another class or just go straight Paladin. Tempted by Warlock/Hexblade. Even still, would want to be mostly Paladin. The party already has straight spellcasting covered and I want to be a solid tank and a heavy single damage dealer. Considering a shield and spear PAM build.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

Thanks,
Necro

I'd just go straight paladin. I'm a big fan of concentration spells, and I HATE losing concentration. So I'd go S16, D13+1=14, C15+2=17, I9, W14, C16, take Res Con at 4th and PAM at 8th. You'll have very solid HP, auto-win concentration saves by 6th level, and very solid damage at 8th. Especially for Vengeance paladins who use Haste, having great Con saves feels good.

I like putting the +1 into Dex because it helps initiative, while also keeping your options open for choosing a stealth-friendly medium armor kit, just in case that's important for your party (not being the sole clanky guy that's messing up the party stealth). Can also pick up Stealth skill from background to further that aim.

But that's me. Your array/plan looks good too.

[Urbanmech]

Move your Wis to Con and take Resilient: Con as your other ASI. Having nearly unbreakable concentration is lots of fun. You are almost 11th level so going full Paladin will get you Improved Divine Strike, adding an extra 3d8 (4d8 with Haste) damage every round is fantastic. Paladin really has a lot to offer from 11+.

[Necrosnoop110]

I'd just go straight paladin. I'm a big fan of concentration spells, and I HATE losing concentration. So I'd go S16, D13+1=14, C15+2=17, I9, W14, C16, take Res Con at 4th and PAM at 8th. You'll have very solid HP, auto-win concentration saves by 6th level, and very solid damage at 8th. Especially for Vengeance paladins who use Haste, having great Con saves feels good.

I like putting the +1 into Dex because it helps initiative, while also keeping your options open for choosing a stealth-friendly medium armor kit, just in case that's important for your party (not being the sole clanky guy that's messing up the party stealth). Can also pick up Stealth skill from background to further that aim.

But that's me. Your array/plan looks good too.
Thanks! Forgot to mention that we are starting at first level. What kind of weapon arrangement should I go for before PAM kicks in. Two-handed sword or sword and board? I really want to hit hard asap.

The +1 to Int and +2 Con are from the Hobgoblin not ASI boosts.

[Necrosnoop110]

Move your Wis to Con and take Resilient: Con as your other ASI. Having nearly unbreakable concentration is lots of fun. You are almost 11th level so going full Paladin will get you Improved Divine Strike, adding an extra 3d8 (4d8 with Haste) damage every round is fantastic. Paladin really has a lot to offer from 11+.
Sorry forgot to say we are starting from first. Added to original post.

[KorvinStarmast]

I will be running a Paladin (Oath of Vengeance) in an Curse of Strahd campaign (no spoilers please)
The party is Wizard, Sorcerer, Rogue, Bard
Starting from first level

Q1: Any suggestions for stat array? Was thinking S16, D13, C14+2=16, I9+1=10, W15, C16[QUOTE]
Works.
Q2: Should I dip into another class or just go straight Paladin.
Go Straight Paladin. Your party buddies have ranged stuff covered.

[Angelalex242]

Consider Devotion for CoS. You will be very happy with Charm Immunity vs. Strahd in particular.

[1Pirate]

Thanks! Forgot to mention that we are starting at first level. What kind of weapon arrangement should I go for before PAM kicks in. Two-handed sword or sword and board? I really want to hit hard asap.

You can use a great sword at first level, then go sword and board at second level when you get a fighting style(Dueling). If you're DM is allowing the Tasha's style rules, you could start Great Weapon Fighter, then switch to Dueling when you pick up PAM. I would go straight paladin as well. Aura of Courage can come in handy(also depending on how your DM is with component rules a dip into an arcane class might force you into Warcaster, unless you do 2-handed PAM). I would take PAM at 4th because uh, well, you don't want spoilers, so just take PAM at 4th. :smallwink:

[Sception]

With that party, you might want to lean into tanking, starting sword & board and picking up Sentinel instead of res:con at 4th level. Depends on how squishy they actually are, though. Huge difference in durability between, say, Abjurers & Bladesingers vs. Enchanters & Diviners. Similar for lore/eloquence bards vs. Valor bards & so on. But yeah, if the party needs protecting, sentinel is definitely worth prioritizing.

As for weapons, I wouldn't worry about them too much? Whatever you start with - greatsword or shield + longsword equivalent - should be fine for the earliest levels. Later on, what you want to use will depend on what magic gear you've picked up. If you've found a magic spear or polearm then PAM is great, but if you have a fancy magic sword and you're choosing between that and generic mundane weapons then PAM isn't actually a good choice after all.

Basically, don't overcommit to your build in advance. Allow some of your build decisions to adapt to campaign circumstances, particularly later decisions like what to do with your LV8 ASI.

[Necrosnoop110]

Thanks all.

My temptation with a Hexblade dip is Shield, Booming Blade, Eldritch Blast and Lightning Lure. I really love those spells. Always wished Paladins got cantrips. Plus the other hexblade goodies, Hexblade's Curse, etc.

[1Pirate]

Word of caution about Hexblade dip and sword/spear & board: if your DM is a stickler about component and focus rules on multi-classing, you'll have to pick up Warcaster or you'll find yourself having to drop your weapon mid-combat to cast EB(and leave it on the ground if you think you're going to need Shield before your next turn).

If you want cantrips as a paladin Tasha's does have a fighting style that let's you pick some up.

[Necrosnoop110]

Word of caution about Hexblade dip and sword/spear & board: if your DM is a stickler about component and focus rules on multi-classing, you'll have to pick up Warcaster or you'll find yourself having to drop your weapon mid-combat to cast EB(and leave it on the ground if you think you're going to need Shield before your next turn).

If you want cantrips as a paladin Tasha's does have a fighting style that let's you pick some up.

What about Magic Initiate (Warlock)? Worth the feat?

[RogueJK]

My temptation with a Hexblade dip is Shield, Booming Blade, Eldritch Blast and Lightning Lure. I really love those spells. Always wished Paladins got cantrips. Plus the other hexblade goodies, Hexblade's Curse, etc.

Booming Blade and Lightning Lure aren't really worth it on a class like Paladin that gets Extra Attack. Especially if you're going to use Polearm Master, which also requires the Attack action to trigger the Bonus Action attack.

Eldritch Blast is nice, since Paladins traditionally lack decent long range options. However, Paladins do have the ability to pick up a couple CHA-based Cleric cantrips using the Blessed Warrior fighting style in Tasha's, so that can cover you with something like Sacred Flame as your ranged backup.



However, dipping Hexblade is pretty great on a Paladin. It lets you focus on CHA instead of STR as your primary stat, and gives you a nice defensive boost with the Shield spell and a nice offensive boost with Hexblade's Curse and Eldritch Blast.

An option is to take the Hexblade dip first, then go straight Paladin, and just use Medium Armor and a shield. This would look something like:

S13, D14, C16, I9+1=10, W15, C16+2=18


But if you want Heavy Armor you'll need to start Paladin first and have at least a 15 STR, then dip Hexblade, or you may want to wait to take the Hexblade dip until Level 3 (so Paladin 2 then Hexblade 1) in order to get Divine Smite online ASAP. This could look something like:

S15, D13, C16, I9+1=10, W14, C16+2=18


Just understand that only 1 level of Hexblade means you can't use Hex Warrior's CHA-based attacks with 2H weapons. So you'd only be able to utilize PAM with a Spear or a Quarterstaff. But PAM with Spear/Staff + Shield + Dueling Fighting Style is a nice combo anyway, so you're not giving up much of anything there other than the bigger polearms' Reach.

[1Pirate]

What about Magic Initiate (Warlock)? Worth the feat?

Magic Initiate runs into the same problem since it doesn't change the components required. And something to keep in mind is that you're only going to get two ASIs over the course of the adventure, so you're kind of in the position of deciding if you want to keep your base stats in exchange for 2 feats, 1 feat for not being able to max any stat, or no feats, but being able to max a stat. Your party is likely to have ranged covered, so I'd advise getting Sacred warrior for your fighting style(you can pick up Guidance that way as well which will give you some utility--assuming the Sorc isn't Divine Soul). At fourth level you can switch it out if it seems like you'd prefer Dueling or defense(you'll have a better idea of what you want to do by then).

Even with spoilers, any advice we give you might not hold up depending on how your DM runs CoS(it's notorious for getting tweaked a lot) so don't plan too far out. In fact it's rather bold of all of us to assume your character will make it to level 4. :smallbiggrin:

As a side note from my earlier post, Hexblade dips were exactly why DMs at our table started enforcing component rules.:smalltongue:

[Necrosnoop110]

What about?

Paladin(Vengeance) 19/Hexblade 1

Progression
1-6 Paladin 6 (4th level feat = PAM)
7 Hexblade 1
8-10 Paladin 3 (8th level feat = Warcaster)

[1Pirate]

What about?

Paladin(Vengeance) 19/Hexblade 1

Progression
1-6 Paladin 6 (4th level feat = PAM)
7 Hexblade 1
8-10 Paladin 3 (8th level feat = Warcaster)

That could work and would still give you enough time to decide if you want the Hexblade dip based on how the DM is running the campaign.

[RogueJK]

What about?

Paladin(Vengeance) 19/Hexblade 1

Progression
1-6 Paladin 6 (4th level feat = PAM)
7 Hexblade 1
8-10 Paladin 3 (8th level feat = Warcaster)

Good progression overall, but I definitely recommend dipping Hexblade earlier on.

Otherwise, you're looking at 6 levels before you have a solid ranged attack option, unless you give up Dueling fighting style for Blessed Warrior. And you're also going to have to rely on STR-based melee attacks for the first 6 levels. Dipping Hexblade earlier lets you focus on just CHA, and start with an 18 in that. (With PAM and Warcaster eating up both of your ASIs, you won't have any spare ASIs to boost your CHA. Would you rather have an 18 in CHA, or split a pair of 16s between STR/CHA? I know I'd prefer the first one...)

You probably set it up this way because you want that sweet Paladin aura ASAP, but it's still worth accepting a 1 level delay from taking Hexblade early, in order to be able to focus more on CHA, have a ranged option earlier on, and have the rest of the Hexblade goodies for a longer portion of the campaign.


As I recommended above, go Hexblade first if you're going Medium Armor, or Hexblade at Level 2 or 3 if you're going Heavy Armor.

[Dudley]

I recommend going 6 Paladin/2 Hexblade for Eldricht Blast + Agonizing + Repelling Blast (and possible combo with your other caster spells like Web, Spike Growth etc. you can push them into CC spells). If you want heavy armor (15 STR) start as Paladin, if not - Hexblade. Go 1/6 to get Aura as fast as possible, then 2nd level of Hexblade. For your ASI just pack everything into CHA to get 20 CHA. Your CON save will be +5 from it anyway. Alternatively I would go 18 CHA and take WarCaster.

Generally I would be "Bless machine" and focus on using Repelling Blast to push enemies into CC spells (if available, even just Web or Spike Growth alone is enough) and going into melee only on boss fights to Smite them with Vow of Enmity. You would have covered support (Bless + Aura), melee on bosses (smites) and CC and rage (Repelling Blast). Plus you attack with CHA on everything, so you are SAD.

That's my recommendtion, though I would take Watchers instead of Vengeance but Veng will work great too especially on boss fights.

[Eldariel]

On this level, Sorcadin seems like a solid alternative to consider too. Pally 6/Sorc 4 would have very decent spellslots, close to ideal spell access, PLENTY of slots to burn, superb spell list, metamagic to abuse with your newly improved spell list, etc.

You'd miss out on the level 7 ability and lack the chance to get Improved Divine Smite but in exchange you get more slots for Smiting and the ability to modulate slot levels and tankiness-enhancers in Shield, Absorb Elements and Silvery Barbs.

[1Pirate]

Plus you attack with CHA on everything, so you are SAD.

Those were famous last words in one CoS campaign. :smallbiggrin:

To the OP: There's a lot of variability in how Strahd(both the villain and the adventure) gets played, don't plan too far out.

[Frogreaver]

I will be running a Paladin (Oath of Vengeance) in an Curse of Strahd campaign (no spoilers please).
Race must be Hobgoblin due to story constraints (and I want that regardless of crunch)
Starting stats: 16,16,15,14,13,9
The party is Wizard, Sorcerer, Rogue, Bard
Starting from first level, likely ending at 10th or little over


Q1: Any suggestions for stat array? Was thinking S16, D13, C14+2=16, I9+1=10, W15, C16
Q2: Should I dip into another class or just go straight Paladin. Tempted by Warlock/Hexblade. Even still, would want to be mostly Paladin. The party already has straight spellcasting covered and I want to be a solid tank and a heavy single damage dealer. Considering a shield and spear PAM build.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

Thanks,
Necro

IMO, with the given party you really need to be thinking more about how I can take damage being the only primary melee character than you do about dealing damage.

I would recommend doing a character as outlined below.

Paladin (Subclass: Glory)

Starting Stats
Str 15
Dex 14
Con 16+2 = 18
Int 9+1 = 10
Wis 13
Cha 16

Use guiding bolt or bless when you can't close immediately.
Swap to a longbow as needed for long range combat (why I placed the 14 in dex).
Divine Smite liberally (especially since using your Glory channel divinity with it can grant a good amount of temp hp).

At level 2 pick dueling style as you will primarily go weapon and shield for the solid damage and AC combination.
At level 4 you will take heavy armor master to further boost your survivability and grants you 16 str.
At level 5 you get 2nd level spells. Find steed is notable here for helping you close into melee much easier.
There's a few other solid Paladin spells to pick from. For this Paladin I really like wrathful smite (helps keep an enemy off your allies).

At this point there's no real reason to multiclass into hexblade with 16 str and 16 cha. Continue in Paladin.
At level 8 i'd either go +2 str or +2 cha. Resilient Con make a great honorable mention.
Even if choosing +2cha here I'd stay in Paladin because level 9 paladins get level 3 spells. Access to haste and the slots for smiting is huge.
Level 10 i think hexblade would be a little stronger, but i'd stay paladin because it's much more thematic and it's not really much weaker.

[Sception]

Again, we're talking about Curse of Strahd here, and a party that may not have any other melee combatants (depending on subclasses & multiclassing, of course). Without getting into specific spoilers, I think taking Polearm Master early is over-investing in an equipment set up that might not end up being supported by the treasure drops the party encounters.

Obviously this depends on the course of the campaign - which places the party visits first, what treasure they find in what order, whether they miss any items entirely, but yeah. I don't think it's a spoiler to say that magic weapon drops in pre-published WotC modules which support a polearm master build tend to be outnumbered by those that do not, and if nobody else in the party is stepping forward to pick up the weapons that don't fit this character's build, that could be a problem.

If you're looking to hex dip, imo take Warcaster with your first ASI, and don't worry about the second until you get there. If you decide to skip the hex dip, then consider Resilient: Con, Inspiring Leader, Sentinel, or Alert instead for your first ASI, and again don't worry about the second until you get there. By the time you hit that second ASI, you'll be approaching the end of the campaign and you'll have a handle on what magical weapons are available.


Unless your DM allows retraining. If they'll let you swap out your feats later, then by all means start with a halberd or spear & shield, take PAM, and retrain it if and when you pick up a magic weapon that doesn't work with the feat.

[paladinn]

My favorite character has been a sorlocadin (Vengeance/Hexblade/Divine Soul). Start as paladin to get the HP and armor. HB for a few levels to get SAD, E-blast and Agonizing. X levels of paladin for the auras and such, then DS as much as you want. The DS gives a lot more spell slots for smiting and access to cleric spells. I didn't notice any clerics in your party? The paladin/DS gets you some good healing potential.

You can pretty much fight, smite, blast and heal. It's not completely "optimized" but you definitely have a lot of bases covered.