Vampires and Moots and starvation

[Paws Harry]

I was just rereading the comic and it got me thinking, sorry if this already got analised. Would the high priest of Hel starve at the Godsmoot?

In 1022 the high priests got left at the godsmoot, and we see in 1179 that the clerics are providing for themselves and that this could go on indefinitly. But what does the high priest of Hel eat?
She/it needs blood to sustain her/it-self. So...

Can vampires in OotS sustain themselves on other sources then human (or equivalent) blood?
Do the clerical spells conjure food / feast of the gods provide vampire sustanance?
Can she drain a potential summon?
Could she have a pact with one of the priests of the pro-destruction group? Could the other priests still consider the act of her feeding on the priest as an attack?

If none of the above. Would she starve and Hels vote would be void?

[Fyraltari]

Could she have a pact with one of the priests of the pro-destruction group?
Most likely. Doesn't even need a pact, if she dies then their deity's will is unduly denied, therefore they'd help for free, just like they did during the battle.

Could the other priests still consider the act of her feeding on the priest as an attack?
Unlikely.

[Grey Watcher]

While I don't know for certain it's the case in OOTS, in most fiction I've encountered vampires can't actually starve. The compulsion to feed might grow stronger the longer it's denied, but they don't need blood for the nutrients the way living people need food. The hunger is a curse, not an indicator of biological necessity.

Now, if her hunger does grow over time, the question becomes how long can she hold out before she attacks another delegate in sheer desperation.

[Emanick]

While I don't know for certain it's the case in OOTS, in most fiction I've encountered vampires can't actually starve. The compulsion to feed might grow stronger the longer it's denied, but they don't need blood for the nutrients the way living people need food. The hunger is a curse, not an indicator of biological necessity.

Now, if her hunger does grow over time, the question becomes how long can she hold out before she attacks another delegate in sheer desperation.

IIRC, the advanced lore for vampires in D&D suggests that vampires eventually become essentially comatose if they go for long enough without feeding. I don't think that would invalidate the current High Priestess of Hel's vote, but it's certainly not ideal; if nothing else, she'd be a sitting duck for adventurers (or, more likely, one of the anti-undead churches) after the Moot ends.

Of course, that assumes that OOTS follows that lore. In reality, I suspect that Rich has never bothered to decide about this, because it isn't important. But I tend to assume that OOTS follows D&D conventions unless otherwise specified, as I believe Rich has suggested.

Regarding the questions in the original post - it's impossible to know for sure, but I imagine the High Priestess has ended up summoning creatures and drinking their blood in order to survive. It's the most straightforward solution to the problem, IMO - it doesn't seem that vampires can consume normal food and drink, magical or otherwise, and I would imagine that none of the other high priests would be willing to let her drink their blood unless there was absolutely no viable alternative.

[Metastachydium]

Can she drain a potential summon?

It would make sense for summoning creatures into the temple to be illegal, but otherwise that's a possibility.


Could the other priests still consider the act of her feeding on the priest as an attack?


Unlikely.

And even if that were the case, attacking (or "attacking") bodyguards might hypothetically be an option.


While I don't know for certain it's the case in OOTS, in most fiction I've encountered vampires can't actually starve. The compulsion to feed might grow stronger the longer it's denied, but they don't need blood for the nutrients the way living people need food. The hunger is a curse, not an indicator of biological necessity.


While we should probably consider Greg an unreliable source of information, he states that vampires have to drink blood once a night or so to stay undead (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0939.html).

[JT]

It would make sense for summoning creatures into the temple to be illegal, but otherwise that's a possibility.




And even if that were the case, attacking (or "attacking") bodyguards might hypothetically be an option.



While we should probably consider Greg an unreliable source of information, he states that vampires have to drink blood once a night or so to stay undead (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0939.html).

Pedantically, he says that once a night is ideal -- that's not the same as "have to" in my thesaurus.

[Metastachydium]

Pedantically, he says that once a night is ideal -- that's not the same as "have to" in my thesaurus.

Hence or so. At any rate,
1. the question he answers inquires about how often he needs to feed (which, granted, still isn't the same as have to, but it's close); and
2. my point is that he implies he needs to do that to stay alive not-dead (as opposed to it being compulsive behaviour he doesn't draw sustenance from).

[pearl jam]

An otherwise healthy human, and probably even a not particularly healthy one, for that matter, wouldn't starve in one day, or even several, without food。It's probably similar for vampires.

[NoHaxJustPi]

An otherwise healthy human, and probably even a not particularly healthy one, for that matter, wouldn't starve in one day, or even several, without food。It's probably similar for vampires.

Seconded, I'd assume drinking blood once a night is ideal for vampires in the same way that eating a few times per day is ideal for humans.

[Squire Doodad]

I'd assume this is the same as how the priests are summoning food for all of them, not just themselves. One of the Clerics will likely agree to let her feed and then immediately cast Restoration.

Boring, but efficient - that's the Pragmatic Difference TM

[Peelee]

Create Food and Water

The food that this spell creates is simple fare of your choice—highly nourishing, if rather bland.

Blood is food for vampires. It seems to me they could create simple fare of their choice (that choice being blood), which would be rather bland (which is to say, not like this (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1129.html)).

[Squire Doodad]

Hmm, make me wonder: if Greg were magically on board with helping Roy stop Xykon (for whatever reason), would Roy have thought to ask him to switch from drink+restoration into pure create food and water when they arrived at the Tomb?

[littlebum2002]

Blood is food for vampires.

I mean to be fair it's food for a lot of humans, too. Blood sausage is pretty popular with older folks where I am from.

[Psyren]

Blood is food for vampires. It seems to me they could create simple fare of their choice (that choice being blood), which would be rather bland (which is to say, not like this (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1129.html)).

I mean, if we want to get technical:


Effect: Food and water to sustain three humans or one horse/level for 24 hours

I'm not saying the spell definitively doesn't nourish vampires, but I'm also not saying it definitively does.

I'm with Fyraltari on this one, the other pro-destroy clerics would probably be under orders to keep her (un)alive.

[Peelee]

I mean, if we want to get technical:



I'm not saying the spell definitively doesn't nourish vampires, but I'm also not saying it definitively does.

I'm with Fyraltari on this one, the other pro-destroy clerics would probably be under orders to keep her (un)alive.

Oh, I don't for a second believe that it would actually work. I was just amused at the idea that it could, with a sufficiently permissible DM/world. I agree with you and Fyraltari.

Im also now amused that the spell is specifically unfriendly for elves, dwarves, gnomes, and basically all other races.

[Darth Paul]

Im also now amused that the spell is specifically unfriendly for elves, dwarves, gnomes, and basically all other races.

To be extra-extra pedantic, that doesn't necessarily mean the spell only feeds humans and horses (what about the poor mules?). I take it as producing enough for 3 human-size creatures or 1 horse-size creature. If they wanted to be very specific, they could have specified the size class of creature; then again, "L" has such a range of sizes that it's kind of useless in this case. A 500-lb creature would obviously be satisfied with less than a 2-ton creature, to take the extreme ends of the scale. For that matter, horses are size M too, if I'm not mistaken, but they apparently eat 3 times what a human does per day? I'm not sure that seems right to me, but I don't know much about horses and their eating habits (except that you shouldn't feed them wet hay and molasses unless you want to be shoulder-deep trying to straighten an intestine). (Or so I've heard.)

[Grey Watcher]

To be extra-extra pedantic, that doesn't necessarily mean the spell only feeds humans and horses (what about the poor mules?). I take it as producing enough for 3 human-size creatures or 1 horse-size creature. If they wanted to be very specific, they could have specified the size class of creature; then again, "L" has such a range of sizes that it's kind of useless in this case. A 500-lb creature would obviously be satisfied with less than a 2-ton creature, to take the extreme ends of the scale. For that matter, horses are size M too, if I'm not mistaken, but they apparently eat 3 times what a human does per day? I'm not sure that seems right to me, but I don't know much about horses and their eating habits (except that you shouldn't feed them wet hay and molasses unless you want to be shoulder-deep trying to straighten an intestine). (Or so I've heard.)

I think horses are considered Large by the game engine. Unless it's specifically a pony or something.

[Psyren]

Im also now amused that the spell is specifically unfriendly for elves, dwarves, gnomes, and basically all other races.

I thought about that, but then I realized that elves, dwarves, gnomes et al can eat human food (and possibly also horse food, especially horse food that can sustain a human) so that's actually fine. Vampires are a complication in that they specifically can't benefit from human food, so the spell not working on them seems to be both RAW and RAI.

[Peelee]

I thought about that, but then I realized that elves, dwarves, gnomes et al can eat human food (and possibly also horse food, especially horse food that can sustain a human) so that's actually fine.

With a sane, rational, and reasonable reading, you would be correct. However, with a needlessly pedantic reading, it does not say that it conjures human food or horse food, but rather, food and water to sustain humans or horses. Not elves, not dwarves, not vegans, not donkeys. By this clearly unreasonable interpretation, non-humans and non-horses can suck it. :smalltongue:

ETA:For the record, I agree with you and don't think using it for vampires is intended at all, but if by extraordinary events that came up at my table I'd probably allow it. The tortuous reading of "humans or horses only" just amuses me.

[brian 333]

Wait a minute! Whoever said pedantry was needless? We have a whole forum full of pedants here, and we find ourselves to be incredibly valuable!