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View Full Version : Optimization Love some feedback on a high level bodyguard build



Max Caysey
2022-02-17, 07:28 AM
Ok, so, Im building a bodyguard for a high level PC. The PC in question is an unoptimized paladin, who has mostly focused on roleplaying and followers. While Leadership and basicaclly every other feat granting this, is powerful and ripe for abuse, the character has not done so in a convetional sense.

Anyways, I'm building a level 25 arcane gish, which will serve as a personal bodyguard and I would love some feedback on the build. The build is supposed to protect, meaning it has to be able to shield its sire, while also being able to get him out of what ever situation he might find himself in. Im think ambushes, kidnappings or simply being overrun in his estate by bandits... The bodyguard therefore nees some good fighting abilities while also being able to react fast (he has +20 to initiative) and have great perception againt rogues and stuff. I love to hear your thoughts on the build and the concept. Would it be better for instancce to do a divine gish? Or possible something completely different. The PC being a LG paladin must be able to cooporate with the bodyguard, so no evil stuff... and no infinity loops.

In short, its a Male Grey Elf, Fighter 1/ Swashbucler 3, Wizard 6, Abjurant Champion 5, Swiftblade 10

Base stats are elite array. Stats are, after items:

Str: 22
Dex: 30
Con: 21
Int: 30
Wis: 22
Cha: 19

Feats are, in no particular order:
Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Great Scimitar)
Weapon Focus (Great Scimitar)
Faerie Mysteries Initiate (Passions)
Combat Reflexes
Improved Combat Reflexes
Close Quarter Defense
Slashing Flurry
Alertness
Practiced Spellcaster
Daring Warrior
Weapon Finesse
Graceful Edge
Weapon Specialization (Scimitar, Great)
Combat Casting
Dodge
Mobility
Melee Weapon Mastery (Slashing)
Robilar’s Gambit
Spring Attack
Bounding Assault
Epic Weapon Focus
Rapid Blitz
Epic Weapon Specialization

Items are:
+5 Razorsharp, Laminated*, Keen, Aptitude, Collision, Oerthblodded, Pure Ore, Obdurium, Great Scimitar of Graceful Strikes
Starmantle Cloak of Evasion
Ring of Sustenance, Anticipation and Protection, +5
Ring of Enduring Arcana and Wizardry 1-4
Amulet of Natural Armor +5
Monk’s Healing Belt of Magnificence +6
Vest of Resistance +10
Gwearon’s Steadfast Boots
Gauntlets of Heartfelt Blows
Headband of Perception (+30 Competence to Spot, Listen)
Bracers of Healing, greater and Soulfire

*: Laminated is from "Mercenaries" a 3rd party book. It gives +1 dam and increased the threat multiplier by 1.

Anyways, what might this build be missing? Are there any glaring vulnerabilities which this build, serving as a bodyguard, can't adress?`Any obvious items I'm missing? Anything really would be helpful!

Cheers!

King of Nowhere
2022-02-17, 09:46 AM
the problem is, he's not doing much to actually bodyguard. he is just another fighter.

i have an npc bodyguard. he's got allied defence so he can share his combat expertise bonus, with the devoted defender class he can swap place with an ally and take an attack for him. he's got a few level of tactical soldier that allow him to enable an ally to flank from every tile. and he uses the gift of grace feat to give his paladin's bonus to saving throws to an ally. and he's equipped with an arrow-attracting shield.
so my bodyguard has very little offensive power, but just by standing near his protege, he gives him +9 to AC (could have been a lot higher, but i decided to limit the cheese somewhere), authomatic flank, +9 to saving throws, and he can take attacks in his place.

Max Caysey
2022-02-17, 12:39 PM
the problem is, he's not doing much to actually bodyguard. he is just another fighter.

i have an npc bodyguard. he's got allied defence so he can share his combat expertise bonus, with the devoted defender class he can swap place with an ally and take an attack for him. he's got a few level of tactical soldier that allow him to enable an ally to flank from every tile. and he uses the gift of grace feat to give his paladin's bonus to saving throws to an ally. and he's equipped with an arrow-attracting shield.
so my bodyguard has very little offensive power, but just by standing near his protege, he gives him +9 to AC (could have been a lot higher, but i decided to limit the cheese somewhere), authomatic flank, +9 to saving throws, and he can take attacks in his place.

True enough. The PC is level 32, and has AC 72 in his battleplate. His Saves are in the high 50s because his armor doubles Divine grace. So AC and saves is not something he’s missing. Granted when just holding court, he’s not in full battle plate and shield… but that’s exactly why in asking because being a body guard, he needs to mitigate threats to a person with high AC and high saves… so what might I be missing? What would you send into a castle guarded by level 14 guards… that might threaten a noble paladin?

PoeticallyPsyco
2022-02-17, 05:17 PM
Since you already have Weapon Focus, I would drop the 3 levels of Swashbuckler and later down the line take 3 levels of the Devoted Defender PrC (which is essentially "Bodyguard: the class"). Lets you put your excellent AC to use by taking attacks aimed at the person you're guarding, while also moving them out of danger and counter-attacking.

If you can squeeze it in, I'd also trade the level of fighter for a level of Crusader, and move it back to 5th level. The stance Iron Guard's Glare gives enemies within reach a -4 penalties to attack rolls against your allies, and Shield Block lets you add another +4 against a single attack as an immediate action. Well worth the feat you'd be getting from fighter... as long as you can spare that feat. Alternatively, if you're playing this from 1-20, Crusader is a very strong 1st level that lets you start with your shtick immediately; you lose Shield Block, though.

Max Caysey
2022-02-17, 05:51 PM
Since you already have Weapon Focus, I would drop the 3 levels of Swashbuckler and later down the line take 3 levels of the Devoted Defender PrC (which is essentially "Bodyguard: the class"). Lets you put your excellent AC to use by taking attacks aimed at the person you're guarding, while also moving them out of danger and counter-attacking.

If you can squeeze it in, I'd also trade the level of fighter for a level of Crusader, and move it back to 5th level. The stance Iron Guard's Glare gives enemies within reach a -4 penalties to attack rolls against your allies, and Shield Block lets you add another +4 against a single attack as an immediate action. Well worth the feat you'd be getting from fighter... as long as you can spare that feat. Alternatively, if you're playing this from 1-20, Crusader is a very strong 1st level that lets you start with your shtick immediately; you lose Shield Block, though.

The 3 levels of swashbuckler was to gain int to damage. Its +10 to damage after all, x5 attacks per round, seems like a lot of damage to pass on. The fighter is to gain weapon specialization, weapon mastery, epic weapon focus and epic weapon specialization. That’s +4 to hit, +8 damage. I’m not saying it’s not good advice, but you’re suggesting a -18 to damage per hit… 5 attacks per round for a total of 90 less damage per round not counting crits which he threatens on 15-20/x3. So I would be apprehensive about removing that much damage…

However, I do like the crusader. It just seems like it’s difficult to get in. At least in the current swiftblade build. 15-20 levels are already set in the current Swiftblade Gish build. Now obviously im open to other builds, but in that case I assume something totally different build than arcane Gish swiftblade… in which case I would be very curious to see what you have in mind!

Devoted defender is cool and fits the fluff, but I’m unsure if giving up caster levels for what devoted defender gives is worth it… on the face of it it seems like a bad trade, but I might be missing something here…

Again, swiftblade - or arcane gish for that matter - is not set in stone, but it would seem to me that it might be a good option for someone who must be able to defend someone from a lot of different threats… most likely coming from either stealth or magic sources… while retaining the ability to tank…

The PC this bodyguard is guarding is a level 32 paladin mix. The paladin is a lord and great land over. Is a duke and thus has a lot of political influence. He doesn’t really do adventures anymore but is mainly doing political campaigns or moving his very large scale armies around. So what can threaten the life of such a person - a lord? What ever can threaten such a political person in the mid level 30s is what the bodyguard needs to be able to handle…

Anthrowhale
2022-02-17, 07:48 PM
Cleric with a side of Devoted Defender seems better to me. A cleric can use Shield Other routinely (aka 'double your hit points') and remove many status effect (including "dead"). Take Divine Defiance to be able to counter any one spell/round. Between Devoted Defender's "Harm's Way" and Divine Defiance you can counter just about anything except a supernatural effect.

If you want to deal damage, have a vorpal weapon and use sense weakness+surge of fortune. If you want to be more powerful, add Persistent Spell in.