Something simple: Recommendations for High Elf Single Class Rogue Archer (AT)?

[Wasp]

Hi everyone

I would like to create a relatively simple character, a High Elf Rogue, single class (possibly Arcane Trickster because I love magic), who in combat primarily works as ranged sneak attacker, who due to Elven Accuracy with Steady Aim, Allies or maybe a Familiar will hopefully be able to attack with triple advantage on sneak attacks.

So what I've got so far is
Race: High Elf to get Long Bow, access to Elven Accuracy (I think Drow is off the table because I would like to be effective in bright daylight)
Class: Rogue (Arcane Trickster)
Feats: Elven Accuracy at 4th Level
Combat Tactics: Once viable: Mainly stand back, steady aim and shoot (plus all the other stuff you can do if necessary)

Scope of this built would be level 1 through 12ish. Point Buy.

I would like to ask for recommendations to flesh this out, additional feats, cantrip and spell options, items to seek out or any idea really to make this fun and effective? How much focus on INT would you put, because I usually like my WIS for Perception and can't really stand playing a character with -1 in CH...

I know AT doesn't really add much to the main combat idea and kinda competes with the bonus action steady aim use, but I do think the magic options add so much outside of combat, I don't want to give this up without good reason.

Cheers

[Amnestic]

My cantrip recommendations are Booming Blade, Create Bonfire, and Minor Illusion.

It costs you very little to have a rapier/shortsword on hand for a time when you're stuck in melee for whatever reason, and BB is an easy boost to your damage output. Create Bonfire is a decent source of fire (heh) and forget damage and uses your Concentration. Minor Illusion is flexible both in and out of combat situations if needed.

I would probably not go beyond 12 or maybe 14 int at most, it's not your focus and you'd be better served putting the points into con for HP or wis for saves/skills.

[Pildion]

Hi everyone

I would like to create a relatively simple character, a High Elf Rogue, single class (possibly Arcane Trickster because I love magic), who in combat primarily works as ranged sneak attacker, who due to Elven Accuracy with Steady Aim, Allies or maybe a Familiar will hopefully be able to attack with triple advantage on sneak attacks.

So what I've got so far is
Race: High Elf to get Long Bow, access to Elven Accuracy (I think Drow is off the table because I would like to be effective in bright daylight)
Class: Rogue (Arcane Trickster)
Feats: Elven Accuracy at 4th Level
Combat Tactics: Once viable: Mainly stand back, steady aim and shoot (plus all the other stuff you can do if necessary)

Scope of this built would be level 1 through 12ish. Point Buy.

I would like to ask for recommendations to flesh this out, additional feats, cantrip and spell options, items to seek out or any idea really to make this fun and effective? How much focus on INT would you put, because I usually like my WIS for Perception and can't really stand playing a character with -1 in CH...

I know AT doesn't really add much to the main combat idea and kinda competes with the bonus action steady aim use, but I do think the magic options add so much outside of combat, I don't want to give this up without good reason.

Cheers

Well you can go
Str:10
Dex:17 >Elven Accuracy@4 >+2Dex@8
Con:15 >Res Con@12
Int:14
Wis:10
Cha:8

Even with point buy I don't tend to drop all the "dump" stats. Try for a Headband of Intellect as well, they are only an Uncommon item.

[Gignere]

Hi everyone

I would like to create a relatively simple character, a High Elf Rogue, single class (possibly Arcane Trickster because I love magic), who in combat primarily works as ranged sneak attacker, who due to Elven Accuracy with Steady Aim, Allies or maybe a Familiar will hopefully be able to attack with triple advantage on sneak attacks.

So what I've got so far is
Race: High Elf to get Long Bow, access to Elven Accuracy (I think Drow is off the table because I would like to be effective in bright daylight)
Class: Rogue (Arcane Trickster)
Feats: Elven Accuracy at 4th Level
Combat Tactics: Once viable: Mainly stand back, steady aim and shoot (plus all the other stuff you can do if necessary)

Scope of this built would be level 1 through 12ish. Point Buy.

I would like to ask for recommendations to flesh this out, additional feats, cantrip and spell options, items to seek out or any idea really to make this fun and effective? How much focus on INT would you put, because I usually like my WIS for Perception and can't really stand playing a character with -1 in CH...

I know AT doesn't really add much to the main combat idea and kinda competes with the bonus action steady aim use, but I do think the magic options add so much outside of combat, I don't want to give this up without good reason.

Cheers

If you plan to use steady aim all the time, you should get a mount. Pick up ritual casting probably on your level 8 ASI nab phantom steed now you can attack, move up to 200 feet, so basically in the open no one will be able to catch you, all while you are using steady aim.

Ritual casting will allow you to pick up familiar so when you do get haste, you can enable offturn sneak attacks with advantage as well.

Steady aim, haste attack, move mount to wherever, ready action to attack again when familiar moves in for help action. Boom two sneak attacks in a round both with triple advantage.

The only problem is that a high level AT is so much better doing melee damage because of Shadowblade / booming blade.

[JellyPooga]

1) Ability Scores. As a High Elf, getting 14 Int is an easy buy and worth it. You don't need it, but it gives you much more flexibility with spell selection. I'd recommend something akin to:
Str: 8, Dex: 14+2, Con: 12, Int: 13+1, Wis: 14, Cha: 12

Good all-round numbers with focus on Dex. As a backline focused character with Uncanny Dodge and Evasion, that Con:12 isn't the death sentence the optimisers will tell you it is. I might even be inclined (if I was feeling saucy amd particularly Elf-like) to drop it to 10 and bump something else up (probably Strength...Not being able to jump over a standard issue 10ft pit sucks for a character/class that's supposed to be agile and athletic).

2) Feats. Elven Accuracy. Yeah it's good...but it does nothing to diversify your style of play. I might suggest putting it off until 8th level to take a different Feat at 4th. I would suggest;
- Mobile is godlike on a Rogue in difficult terrain. If you can swing a spell (or get a friend to cast one) that creates difficult terrain, Mobile effectively quadruples your speed vs. an opponent without it when you Bonus Action Dash.
- Skulker means not taking Perception penalties in the dark (yes, Darkvision gives you penaltirs to see in the dark; this Feat eliminates that penalty) and lets you hide in dim light (basically anywhere), which you can do as a Bonus Action.

3) Cantrips.
- Take Dancing Lights. Someone else in the party can take Light but Dancing Lights is a much more versatile spell. It's mutable and movable area and range means you can see farther and where you need to see far better than the static 60ft range of Light that will also normally be centered on the party. DL offers anything from a 40ft cube to a 10x120ft line of illumination. Dim illumination with no Bright area. Combined with the Skulker Feat and against the right opponents, you can literally make or break battles with this cantrip by manipulating light to your advantage.

- Take one of the "Elemental Cantrips". I prefer Shape Water myself, but Mould Earth is also great and while people rag on Gust and Control Flame they're both actually pretty good if you get creative (e.g. turning a Bullseye lantern into a 240ft lighthouse beacon with the latter). All of them are super versatile and offer creative solutions for a variety of scenarios as well as being really cool for inconsequential things (like making ice-flowers or entertaining people with colourful flames).

- I personally wouldn't, because you have weapons for that, but take a damage spell if you really like. If I'd suggest one that inflicts some kind of status effect over pure damage. Frostbite, Ray of Frost or Mind Sliver are all decent choices there.

4) Spells. It really depends on what you want to do with your spellcasting thematically; defensive, aggressive, utility, etc. but some of my top picks (outside of the normally recommended ones) include:
- Earth Tremor. It's Evocation so it takes up one of your non-Enchantment/Illusion spell picks, but with Mobile feat, it's an amazing "get out of dodge" spell for when you inevitably get mired in by a horde of mooks. Bonus Action Dash, pop this little number and leave your enemies in the dust.

- Alter Self. Better than Disguise Self by a country mile because it stands up to inspection and is mutable within its duration. Another non-I/E spell though, so you'll want to talk to your GM about the extent of this spells utility before choosing; some GMs will be much more lenient with it (e.g. allowing you to change voices, gait, etc. with it) than others.

[da newt]

Sharp shooter is a feat worth considering.
If you decide a MC dip is OK, 1 lvl of fighter for archery fighting style helps too.
Any item or expertise that helps you hide is always handy.

I really like spider climb or similar for a dedicated archer attacker - be somewhere advantageous and hard to target.

[RogueJK]

Race: High Elf to get Long Bow, access to Elven Accuracy (I think Drow is off the table because I would like to be effective in bright daylight)

Wood Elf might be an even better fit than High Elf. Racial abilities are basically the same, just in place of the High Elf's extra cantrip, you'd get +5 movement speed (handy for a mobile archer, especially tacked on top of Mobile's +10) and the ability to Hide more often. Plus it sets you up to eventually be able to take the Wood Elf Magic feat, which is fantastic for a sneaky/stealthy/scouty characters, letting you cast Longstrider for even more extra movement speed, Pass Without Trace for a huge boost to the party's Stealth (stacking on top of your already super high Stealth from high DEX+Proficiency+Expertise+Reliable Talent), and a Druid cantrip like Guidance to boost other skill checks.


Another alternative to High Elf to consider is the DMG Eladrin. It still gets you all the usual High Elf traits, with the only difference being you get Misty Step 1/day in place of the High Elf's cantrip. It's a handy "get out of Dodge" trick if you get grappled/surrounded/etc, and also helps out with exploration or quickly getting to a better/higher vantage point for your ranged attacks. (However, you can achieve similar with the Fey Touched feat, and get an additional 1st level spell too. Or a High Elf taking the Fey Teleportation feat gets you short rest recharging Misty Step.)


Or, High Half Elf/Wood Half Elf could also be a viable alternative to High Elf. High Half Elf/Wood Half Elf lets you swap out the standard Half Elf's Skill Versatility for Elven Weapon Training for Longbow. You'd get an extra language, and +2/+1/+1 to stats instead of just +2/+1. Just need to decide if that extra language and +1 stat is worth giving up the High Elf's Perception proficiency, Trance, and the extra Cantrip.

[Gignere]

Sharp shooter is a feat worth considering.
If you decide a MC dip is OK, 1 lvl of fighter for archery fighting style helps too.
Any item or expertise that helps you hide is always handy.

I really like spider climb or similar for a dedicated archer attacker - be somewhere advantageous and hard to target.

Why SS? The -5/+10 is a straight DPR loss for a rogue unless you only want it for the extra range but that isn’t necessary at all. With Elven accuracy the bonus from cover barely even matters.

[5eNeedsDarksun]

I DMed one of these fairly recently. The first thing I'd say is that this subclass absolutely adds something in combat in the form of getting reliable advantage with the Familiar. I'm a bit perplexed when I read that they don't. So, if you need to move, you'll still likely get the advantage without needing steady aim, and you're right to lean into the triple advantage.
Second, yes Wis > Int in 5e, but if the main reason you're considering a lower Int score is Perception (or any other skill for that matter) I have one word: Expertise. Expertise is worth 6 points at 5th level, so I'd reconsider. Of course it really depends on what spells you'll be casting, but many Illusions are going to require saves, so you'd be limiting yourself here if you soft dump Int. Also you're an ARCANE Trickster; do you really want to have a low Int?

[Urbanmech]

That will work well for delivering damage from 1-12. Having a familiar and booming blade will give you an excellent melee attack if something gets close to you. Grabbing Ritual Caster: Wizard at 8th will let you pick up a bunch of useful rituals that could fill your out of combat utility niches. Consider grabbing Minor Illusion to make yourself some cover as you stand still and rain super accurate sneak attacks down on your foes.

[da newt]

"Why SS? The -5/+10 is a straight DPR loss for a rogue unless you only want it for the extra range but that isn’t necessary at all. With Elven accuracy the bonus from cover barely even matters."

You answered your own question with the last sentence of your post. Elven Accuracy makes the -5 penalty all most moot, and ignoring cover and range are always handy. If you do dip for Archery FS, the -5 is even less impactful, and the +10 damage is just about the same as +3d6 sneak attack damage or 5 levels of rogue ...

[Mercurias]

Treantmonk did a pretty neat video on a single-classed High Elf Phantom Rogue that uses ritual magic to summon a Phantom Steed. The damage looked really good, and I liked the flavor of it.

[Wasp]

It costs you very little to have a rapier/shortsword on hand for a time when you're stuck in melee for whatever reason, and BB is an easy boost to your damage output.
Yeah, sounds right. Way more effective to just go melee when getting swarmed than investing in Crossbow Expert.


I would probably not go beyond 12 or maybe 14 int at most, it's not your focus and you'd be better served putting the points into con for HP or wis for saves/skills.
Yeah, INT 14 should probably be enough... I'll check the possible spells again.


If you plan to use steady aim all the time, you should get a mount. Pick up ritual casting probably on your level 8 ASI nab phantom steed now you can attack, move up to 200 feet, so basically in the open no one will be able to catch you, all while you are using steady aim.
Wow, didn't even consider this. That actually seems to work... Not sure this "feels" right as a general strategy (The image of someone riding through a dungeon is a bot off...), but it definitely sounds really good mechanically...


Ritual casting will allow you to pick up familiar so when you do get haste, you can enable offturn sneak attacks with advantage as well.
I like the idea of taking Rutual Casting. But is it worth it delaying DEX getting to twenty... Hm....


I'd recommend something akin to:
Str: 8, Dex: 14+2, Con: 12, Int: 13+1, Wis: 14, Cha: 12

Good all-round numbers with focus on Dex. As a backline focused character with Uncanny Dodge and Evasion, that Con:12 isn't the death sentence the optimisers will tell you it is.
Hadn't considered dropping CON to 12... Hmmm... Food for thought....


2) Feats. Elven Accuracy. Yeah it's good...but it does nothing to diversify your style of play. I might suggest putting it off until 8th level to take a different Feat at 4th. I would suggest;
- Mobile is godlike on a Rogue in difficult terrain.
Hmmm, I feel the triple advantage of EA is quite essential to actually hit enough to make this worthwhile and mobile is great but if I use a lot of steady aim mobile doesn't do anything for me a lot of times... Hmmm...


Sharp shooter is a feat worth considering.
If you decide a MC dip is OK, 1 lvl of fighter for archery fighting style helps too.
Any item or expertise that helps you hide is always handy.
I feel like a 1 lvl dip of fighter would delay a lot of the fun stuff... I don't know..

Now... Sharp Shooter... I know it sounds wrong not to take sharp shooter for an archery build but I am not sure where to fit it in if I wanna take EA... and I am wondering if it's worth to combine the two... [/QUOTE]


Wood Elf might be an even better fit than High Elf. Racial abilities are basically the same, just in place of the High Elf's extra cantrip, you'd get +5 movement speed (handy for a mobile archer, especially tacked on top of Mobile's +10) and the ability to Hide more often. Plus it sets you up to eventually be able to take the Wood Elf Magic feat [...]

Another alternative to High Elf to consider is the DMG Eladrin. It still gets you all the usual High Elf traits, with the only difference being you get Misty Step 1/day in place of the High Elf's cantrip.[...]
I have to think about this. I like Misty Step and I like the Wood Elf in general. I think it may be just may reluctance to add stuff like the additional mobement speed I can't really use when I steady aim...


I DMed one of these fairly recently. The first thing I'd say is that this subclass absolutely adds something in combat in the form of getting reliable advantage with the Familiar.
Yeah, maybe I got a bit overly negative regarding the AT's value. I really like the idea of a familar aiding in combat.


Second, yes Wis > Int in 5e, but if the main reason you're considering a lower Int score is Perception (or any other skill for that matter) I have one word: Expertise. Expertise is worth 6 points at 5th level, so I'd reconsider.
True. Thanks for reminding me. But what INT would you consider to be a good place for an AT?


That will work well for delivering damage from 1-12. Having a familiar and booming blade will give you an excellent melee attack if something gets close to you. Grabbing Ritual Caster: Wizard at 8th will let you pick up a bunch of useful rituals that could fill your out of combat utility niches. Consider grabbing Minor Illusion to make yourself some cover as you stand still and rain super accurate sneak attacks down on your foes.
I really, really like this. But can I afford Ritual Caster? Probably, if I have to replace my familiar a lot...


Treantmonk did a pretty neat video on a single-classed High Elf Phantom Rogue that uses ritual magic to summon a Phantom Steed. The damage looked really good, and I liked the flavor of it.
Intesting thanks... the flavor is quite unique... but it feels a bit gimmicky... But that's just me...

[stoutstien]

Unless the game you're playing is particularly high or wide magic I would have to recommend control flame. It almost challenges minor illusion for just the sheer amount of shenanigans you can get up to.

[JellyPooga]

Hmmm, I feel the triple advantage of EA is quite essential to actually hit enough to make this worthwhile and mobile is great but if I use a lot of steady aim mobile doesn't do anything for me a lot of times...

1) Don't fool yourself into thinking that because triple advantage is on the table, that regular advantage is somehow bad. You by no means require the additional die to "hit enough". Hell, you don't even need advantage to get Sneak Attacks.

2) Steady Aim is pretty bad. It's handy if you've nothing else to do with your turn and just want to plink arrows, but the Rogue has so much more they can do with Bonus Actions, not least of which (in very common circumstances) for archer style builds, is going to involve moving...fast! Don't forget that it only takes one instance of disadvantage to cancel all your advantage and if you're holding a bow, a target 5ft away imposes that disadvantage.

Now consider the most common fields of combat and relative speeds. i.e. fights are commonly indoors and most enemies are at least as fast, if not faster than you. An archer needs to be able to move unless they have a defensive position or fortification (or a lot of allies).

[Gignere]

"Why SS? The -5/+10 is a straight DPR loss for a rogue unless you only want it for the extra range but that isn’t necessary at all. With Elven accuracy the bonus from cover barely even matters."

You answered your own question with the last sentence of your post. Elven Accuracy makes the -5 penalty all most moot, and ignoring cover and range are always handy. If you do dip for Archery FS, the -5 is even less impactful, and the +10 damage is just about the same as +3d6 sneak attack damage or 5 levels of rogue ...

I think you should math out SS for a rogue before making that claim, see below:

Level 9 rogue using short bow elven accuracy vs elven accuracy + sharpshooter.

Assume level appropriate AC you hit roughly 50% of the time with elven accuracy you have 87.5% chance to hit for average damage of 25. DPR = 21.875

Adding sharpshooter your chance of hitting drops to 57.8% chance to hit for average damage of 35. DPR = 20.23

This just gets worse as the sneak attack die become bigger and bigger. So I wouldn’t recommend SS for rogues pretty much ever because it’s at best a wasted feat and at worst a reduction to DPR.

[JellyPooga]

I think you should math out SS for a rogue before making that claim, see below:

Level 9 rogue using short bow elven accuracy vs elven accuracy + sharpshooter.

Assume level appropriate AC you hit roughly 50% of the time with elven accuracy you have 87.5% chance to hit for average damage of 25. DPR = 21.875

Adding sharpshooter your chance of hitting drops to 57.8% chance to hit for average damage of 35. DPR = 20.23

This just gets worse as the sneak attack die become bigger and bigger. So I wouldn’t recommend SS for rogues pretty much ever because it’s at best a wasted feat and at worst a reduction to DPR.

Sharpshooter is absolutely worth it for an archer Rogue...just not for the -5/+10. Avoiding Disadvantage either from range or cover means being able to have Advantage to get Sneak Attack (assuming you don'xxt have an adjacent ally).

[Amnestic]

Sharpshooter is absolutely worth it for an archer Rogue...just not for the -5/+10. Avoiding Disadvantage either from range or cover means being able to have Advantage to get Sneak Attack (assuming you don'xxt have an adjacent ally).

Cover doesn't impose disadvantage, it adds to their AC which is relevant, but not a thing that affects SA.

You yourself noted that most encounters take place in indoor areas, where 150ft normal range on a longbow is very likely to cover everything with range to spare.

[Gignere]

Sharpshooter is absolutely worth it for an archer Rogue...just not for the -5/+10. Avoiding Disadvantage either from range or cover means being able to have Advantage to get Sneak Attack (assuming you don'xxt have an adjacent ally).

This is a house rule you’re playing with and yes if you house ruled cover is disadvantage than SS is probably worth it. Hell almost mandatory for any ranged rogue.

[JellyPooga]

This is a house rule you’re playing with and yes if you house ruled cover is disadvantage than SS is probably worth it. Hell almost mandatory for any ranged rogue.

Ah, yes, last game I played we houseruled disadvantage for cover (we also ignored the distinction of half or 3/4 cover as an unnecessary complication). My bad!

The point still stands that Sharpshooter is worth it for a Rogue; ignoring the to-hit penalty for cover might not affect whether you qualify for SA, but it certainly improves your chance to hit and Rogues really need all the to-hit bonuses they can get. In a game of intelligent enemies, cover comes up a lot (in my experience).

[Gignere]

Ah, yes, last game I played we houseruled disadvantage for cover (we also ignored the distinction of half or 3/4 cover as an unnecessary complication). My bad!

The point still stands that Sharpshooter is worth it for a Rogue; ignoring the to-hit penalty for cover might not affect whether you qualify for SA, but it certainly improves your chance to hit and Rogues really need all the to-hit bonuses they can get. In a game of intelligent enemies, cover comes up a lot (in my experience).

In combat the type of cover to most likely occur is half cover, so typically a +2 AC, so we can directly compare the DPR with and without cover.

Elven accuracy DPR without cover is 21.875 as calculated in the above post.

With half cover it is 19.6 DPR, assuming it happens half the time, getting sharpshooter will improve your average DPR by 1 point.

I don’t think it is worth it, compared to even +2 dex or even other feats that can add more versatility to the rogue.

[da newt]

"Assume level appropriate AC you hit roughly 50% of the time"

I'm not sure I agree with this assumption. Are you suggesting that a lvl 9 Rogue (with a +8 to hit) will be facing foes with an average AC of 19 (so that an attack roll of 1-10 will miss)? This has not been my experience over the last few years of 5e.

According to the DMG pg 274, a CR 9 Monster (aka level appropriate) will have an average AC of 16. In order to get to an average 19 AC monster you'd need to bump that up to CR 17.

And as a reminder, the player gets to choose when / if to apply the -5/+10 for each and every attack so they could decide not to use it against the death knight but then use it against the T-Rex ...

If you add a fighter dip for +2 to every archery attack, this is further mitigated, and a magic bow makes things even better. Further, if your DM uses 1/2 cover if anyone is between you and your target, SS becomes even more beneficial.

But you are right, it increases the chances of missing and the-5/+10 should not be used on every shot, it is best to use it situationally.

[Gignere]

"Assume level appropriate AC you hit roughly 50% of the time"

I'm not sure I agree with this assumption. Are you suggesting that a lvl 9 Rogue (with a +8 to hit) will be facing foes with an average AC of 19 (so that an attack roll of 1-10 will miss)? This has not been my experience over the last few years of 5e.

And as a reminder, the player gets to choose when / if to apply the -5/+10 for each and every attack so they could decide not to use it against the death knight but then use it against the T-Rex ...

If you add a fighter dip for +2 to every archery attack, this is further mitigated, and a magic bow makes things even better. Further, if your DM uses 1/2 cover if anyone is between you and your target, SS becomes even more beneficial.

But you are right, it increases the chances of missing and the-5/+10 should not be used on every shot, it is best to use it situationally.

The fighter dip will increase DPR but only by about 2 points over EA straight rogue but this is a crazy investment, so we are comparing EA + SS + 1 fighter dip to EA rogue and we are getting about a +2 DPR. While delaying the level 9 rogue feature delaying sneak attack dice and the EA rogue has an extra ASI which wasn’t even considered in the DPR calculation.

Again I don’t think SS is worth it at all for range rogue.

[Corran]

Oh boy. Playing an arcane trickster with a bit of emphasis on long range combat (though I do mix it with melee semi regularly), and I have to say that arcane trickter has become my favourite subclass. Not just from the rogue ones, but generally. You dont get something as cool as panache, but it's the answer to the ''why doesn't my swashbuckler get just a couple of spells, if they did they'd be the best thing...''.


I wanted elven accuracy badly too, and choosing between the various elf options might have been a struggle for me if I hadn't already decided on race beforehand. I went with the drow since multiclassing was not out for me, and made up for not getting the longbow by grabbing a single fighter level (which comes with other goodies, like shield prof and getting blind fighting now instead of having to wait for blindsense @rogue 14), on top of which I'll probably throw a few more later on in the campaign (action surge most likely not too long after I get magical ambush, and maneuvers at some point in the long run for precision, for polishing my ranged capabilities -trip, and for improving my melee ones -riposte backs sentinel well, which I'll get at high levels; probably aiming for a final split of 13/7 or 14/6 -extra attack will help lower damage variance and opens up to more grappling opporunities (I planned on athletics expertise because snipers need to get to a good position anyway and this many times will involves climbing; spider climb covers for now and it was a thematic pick but I really need to retrain it and instead rely on athletics backed up by expertise and eventually by reliable talent), thus potentially picking another useful maneuver near the end - lots of good choices there, with feinting, pushing and brace being among my favourites). Sunlight sensitivity is harsh, but you can try to play around it. Not without having it cost you in effectiveness, at least not always, but you can live with it as a weakness. If you want I can expand on this.

Warlock was another good option to multiclass. I chose the fighter route but I could have just as easily gone with warlock levels instead if I didn't aim at rounding out my melee capabilities at later levels (for which I need fighter investment).


For a singleclass build high elf is the obvious choice, but wood elf competes very well with it. The comparison could crudely sum up to something like +2 INT and an extra cantrip vs +2 WIS(/CHA/CON/STR), +5 movement and mask of the wild.

INT is the better stat since it affects both your spell save DC (also potential synergy with magical ambush @lvl10) along with your int checks (investigation and arcana being the main consumers). But WIS is not too far behind since WIS saves are more common than INT ones, and all of perception, insight and survival are useful skills (especially perception, and particularly for a scout and a sniper, both of which you'd want to be).

The value of the extra cantrip depends on your choices. BB and minor illusion are great for any arcane trickster. Mold earth is a very good pick too (particularly if you make it a habbit to try and pick the battlefield; stealth and a good range can help with luring monsters). But what if you want dancing lights for lighting up enemies from afar and shooting at them with advantage, or as a distraction, or for reckon of a dangerous area? What if you also want friends because you've planned for actor in the future as well (disguise self is a cheap pick since it's a 1st level illusion spell), for getting a bit more into this kind of social game? Or something just for flavor, like prestidigitation, just because your character is an avid tea drinker, and tea is a rare commodity in the wilderness/part of the world where you're campaigning? Though prestidigitation can help a bit with disguising so it's not all flavor to be fair. Or mending for repairing arrows and for hiding stuff. Or message for communicating silently and potentially under people's noses. Etc etc. Meaning, the extra cantrip's usefulness could range from nice-to-have to mandatory, when taking into account your needs/desires.

And still, even a very much desired extra cantrip will have a hard time competing with extra movement and mask of the wild. Since a lot of enemy creatures have 30 feet of movement, gaining extra movement (that is always on) on top of your base of 30', and pairing it with cunning action (disengage/dash) means you can kite many enemies (instead of just BB'ing, moving away and hoping that they wont follow and attack you). Not to mention that since you plan on firing from a great range (at least some of the time; btw, this is something you and the rest of the party should try to make the best of, mainly by picking the battlefield and luring monsters to it; this is a long dicsussion and there's a lot to it), you will be running the risk of getting caught away from (some of) your allies, so a good movement speed will help mitigate the cost when this risk materializes by getting faster and potentially more safely back to them (same with the risk of scouting going wrong).

Mask of the wild is a real gem if you play with weather elements (or if you are keen on incorporating them). Think for example how fog or a windy raging storm can hinder your ranged capabilities. It will reduce your visibility, and you may even suffer disadvantage on ranged attacks if you dont get close enough to your target (DM's discretion). It can be so bad that it practically forces you into melee. But with mask of the wild, going into melee under such conditions is not a necessity. Instead, it's an opportunity which you welcome. Hit, hide and move. Become untargetable as long as your stealth score allows you, or until you reveal your location by using an OA(/or even sentinel attack; though best save this feat for higher levels if you are focusing on ranged combat) for some off turn sneak attack damage. Think of how such a scenrario plays out and if you are intrigued by it we could expand on it (because rogues, and particularly arcane tricksters lend themselves perfectly to hit&hide tactics, so to speak).

So yeah, conculsion regarding race selection. It's a tough choice and I cannot say for sure which option is the best one. Thankfully I went into it thinking already about a drow rogue, which basicaly meant I had to build around it, so it was easy for me. For a singleclass build I think high elf and wood elf are better than the drow since it's much preferable to get longbow proficiency through race instead of spending a feat for it, but picking between high elf and wood elf is tricky and subject to preferences and playstyle more than anything else. Both are great in their own way.

A shame if level 12ish does not mean level 13, since this is a big level for arcane tricksters. That's the earliest you can grab haste for some ready action, well, action (which basically can translate to off turn sneak attack damage). And hypnotic pattern, which plays really well with magical ambush for a strong opening round 1 (action surge or quickened spell can help not missing on sneak attack opportunities when casting; or when missing for that matter; so since you are not mc'ing, you have some a potentially good feat choice to consider when you reach that point when both your spells and sneak attack have grown stronger, ie metamagic adept for quickened and subtle).

But I am only mentioning the above to now say that they are not too important when it comes to optimization. Neither is race selection for that matter. These are all details. Because I think that especially for rogues and more than any other class, optimization is mostly about group play. And by that I do not mean something like having a battlemaster or an order cleric ally who can give you off turn sneak attack opportunities. Yes, planning builds with teammates is important. A battlemaster fighter should probably look to take commander's strike when a rogue is in the party. Yes, a cleric should seriously consider the order domain with a rogue in the party. Yes, a sorcerer should seriously consider the twinned metamagic and spells like haste and greater invisibility when a rogue is in the party. Yes, a caster should consider spells that create heavily obscured areas, spells that provide advantage to allies and spells/abilities that remove, prevent or generally guard against the firgtened, poisoned and restrained conditions when a rogue is in the party (because said conditions can cripple a rogue, even one who can counter them by sacrificing advantage). But again, this is not the most important thing.

The important thing is that rogues can be built to be very versatile, ie to cover lots of roles. And when you do that, you play your part at trying to expand the party's options.
1) You can be stealthy and good at scouting ahead (both for enemies and for traps). That means that you, as a party, are one step closer to having an all stealthy/scouty party. Dont misunderstand, the goal is not necessarily to create a ninja team here. If you do, good for you, but I want to stress that this is not an all or nothing situation. Being one stealthy member up instead of one stealth member down, means this approach becomes more viable more often. It means that if you have to send a scout ahead you've got one, or if you already have one, it means you can send a second along as a much necessary backup (scouting duos accomplish far more than scouting solo, and they live longer too assuming you do the tiniest bit of planning; eg have a dimension door for both of them to be able to get out if things go wrong).
2) Similarly, you can be good from range. So you are also one step closer to having an all ranged party. It doesn't matter if you can outrange or outdamage enemies from range (well, it kind of matters if you want to lure or to escape enemies, so let's say that it doesn't matter when combat has already started and everyone is aware of everyone). All that matters, at least during a fair fight, is if your group as a whole can outrange and outdamage the enemy as a whole from range. And when you as a group are one member up instead of one member down when it comes to it, you are more likely to do so. Which opens up the possibility (especially when combined with good stealth/scouting), to pick the battlefield more often. Possibly to get a head start in the damage race before the enemy manages to engage in melee. 2b) Or to kite more successfully, again, as a group (because you are a good sprinter too). Though really, utilizing a long range to good effect is a whole conversation on its own.
3) You can be tanky. Or at least slippery enough to try to get out of trouble if it proves too much. Granted, tankiness is best achieved through some multiclassing than through spending feats for it, but even without either of those, you can be survivable enough through spells (eg blur for hordes and/or mirror image for one tough enemy) and mobility (cunning action plus potential speed boosts) and with uncanny dodge proving a bit of a reaction support, that you might be one ally less to worry about if the whole party has to engage in melee (eg if ambushed; which btw is another area you can contribute through perception expertise and ideally through observant -which is a great choice for snipers, and even better for arcane trickster snipers since they can put the INT boost to good use and since they need the passive bonuses when scouting for starters). Or think of it conversly. You can be good in melee, which gives you the option to mix and match a melee and ranged approach as needed (group HP being a good indicator for choosing if nothing else helps you make up your mind).
4) You can be a heck of a distraction. And I dont just mean an out of combat one. Even during combat. You can try and fool a strong enemy into chasing you, which you might even turn into a pointless task with the right investment, assuming they bite the bait you lay out at them. You can charge into the middle of a lot of enemies (probably dodging, or with the help a spell like blur or an ally's haste) with the hope of keeping them close to you long enough for a caster to throw something like a fireball. Do the enemy have some advantage that needs to be taken away (eg that mage near the back, shooting you from a fortified position that offers them cover)? Throw a fog cloud or a darkness and get in there to cause some disruption if not to solve the problem yourself (cunnning action and obscurement will help you survive for a little while longer, hopefully to succeed at what you were aiming at). Or do the same thing to stall enemies rushing at the party, or to keep some focused on you and thus allow the party to take on less of them while you are stalling the rest by playing hide and seek.
5) Social encounters? You've got expertise and spells backing you up so you can be decent here too if you devote a few resources on it. You could for example follow the bard's ruse here. Bard is the supposed bounty hunter, you play the role of the prisoner. That might get you into a place like a prison. Or you are his vallet and the bard is pretending to be a noble, etc, depending on the occasion of the encounter which you want to deal with no or with as little combat as possible. The bard will be the lead, but all who are activelly involved will have to play their role well. Or if you dont have the opportunity to engage in such ruses, even if your party has a strong face, you could even go as far as to only support the backup social skill (intimidation). Just for when you can and want to do something after the party face fails to prove a point to an NPC who wasn't convinced.

=============================================

Bottom line. An encounter or a series of encounters is a problem that needs to be solved, and optimization here is about figuring out the best way to solve it. The best way to solve the problem depends on two things.
First, the nature of the problem itself. Eg if you are up against thugs it's usually better to try and deal with them from range, since they are better in melee than in range themselves; and if you are up against goblins it's usually better to close in fast and kill them quickly before they manage to spread out and try to use guerilla tactics on you.
And second, your own party's capabilities. Meaning that there is little to no point fighting the aforementioned thugs from range if your party's ranged damage output is low, and similarly it will be hard to deal with goblins in melee if you dont have the melee or the AoE capability to deal with their numbers (assuming a large force), or kill speed and movement speed to deal with their tactics (assuming a small-medium force which plays to the goblin's strengths; ie scatter, run away and shoot you to death from hidden spots).

So, having your arcane trickster be good at multiple things, means that as a group you'll be less likely to have to abandon good options because of group inefficiencies, because you are one member up in many of the usual approaches one can expect. Does the best approach rely on kicking down the door and rushing enemies in melee? You can support it as a character, thus making your group more likely to be able to support this option. Does the best approach rely on sneaking and disarming traps? You can support it. Does it rely on killing the enemies from range? Does it rely on trying to outrun and/or split the enemies. Same. Does it rely on bluffing your way through? When you can support such options reliably enough, then your group is more likely to be able to support them too. Thus the best approach may become your best approach, because of not needing to replace by the second best just because the second best fits your party's capabilities while the best one didn't.

Of course, every character can be built to be versatile. But the good thing here is that the arcane tricksters naturally lend to it, even before we start thinking of multiclassing (though multiclassing certainly expedites things in the case of the AT who is limited by the rate in which they get feats, and multiclassing plays around this obstacle). That's their strength. With an arcane trickster you can be versatile enough without spreading yourself thin (eg such as by indulging in extenssive gimmicky multiclassing). Still, you have more options than picks and I at least am always left wanting just a bit more, so some choices are hard and have to be thought out. But you cannot go too wrong if you have an idea about what you want. In all fairness, they dip and multiclass pretty well too (IMO battlemaster and hexblade are great options that allow for enough customization without sacrificing too much when compared to the singleclass progression).


Damage optimization boils down to two things. Roll more dice (so essentially either additional attacks or advantage; you can go for both but dont overcommit resources just for it; diminishing returns). And having ways to attack when it's not your turn. Well, there's a bonus third thing. Dealing with damage resistant enemies.

1) Let's start with the second, ie finding ways to attack when it's not your turn.
a) The first thing you want to look at here is your allies. Depending on if and on how much they can help with that (eg battlemaster with commander's strike, order cleric, ally cater with disonant whispers, fear, eyebite; some DMs will allow command too), you'll have to invest accordingly to fill the gap.
b) For a ranged approach, the only way I know of to attack off turn is through haste (attack on your turn with your haste action and use your action to ready an attack that will(?) trigger outside your own turn). It has a bad rap, but I think this is because it's just game-y. I wouldn't call it overpowered by any means, it's just powerful and very nice to have once it becomes available (either through an ally and later on from you, so you can free your ally's concentration to be used for something more useful for starters, assuming they are still hasting your butt at tier 3). At tier 3, haste means that you get to become a range speciallist one/a few times per day.
c) For a melee approach there are two ways I know of. Sentinel is one of them. Stick next to an ally and hope that not everyone will focus on you (whenever I am thinking about a sentinel rogue I am thinking literally of a moving target). This can work if you ally is built both to invite yet at the same time to somehow also endure a lot of pressure, while you make yourself enough of an unattrctive target despite having sentinel when compared to that ally of yours. And you do that by stacking as much AC as you can, and by getting your hands on retributory abilities that punish enemies for focusing on you (eg riposte being great here as a kind of bluff, since you really want to keep your reaction free for that sentinel attack). This approach sacrifices mobility obviously and is demanding on building for AC and countermeasures that I'd say it kind of shoehorns you into an inflexible melee build, at least most of the time. I'd still take sentinel on an arcane trickster rogue that does not speciallize too fast and too much on this kind of melee approach, but I'd probably delay it until the high levels (and I'd most likely rely on multiclassing -battlemaster- to impove this approach's overall effectiveness still).
d) The other way to attempt off turn sneak attack with a melee build is through OA's. As mentioned earlier, spells like disonant whispers and the like can help here. But so can spells that create a heavily obscured area if you have a way to see through it. Blindsense comes at level 14, so this may not be an option, or it may be an option for later. But if you want, you can get devil's sight or blind fighting through a feat or (preferably) through multiclassing, and pair them with spells like fog cloud and darkness (which may come from you or from an ally) as approrpiate. Inside a heavily obscured area no one has to stay still, because OA's generally wont apply. So you can hide with your bonus action and end your turn next to an enemy who will need to move on their turn; if you allied inside the obscured area keep moving on their turn, this enemy could be any enemy at all. Ideally pick one that needs to go down fast and who also happens to get their turn after enough enemies have already acted since your last turn. This mean that you reveal your position only after enough enemies have already gone. Because if you are using this to take down a nasty, which will have the opportunity to attack you on its turn since you attacked it with an OA during its turn and before it ended, you probably dont want any more attention than that. So yeah, that's the jist of it. Attack with BB and advantage enemy A on your turn, then hide and move next to any enemy, and when that enemy starts moving you get an OA attack with advantage against them. Meanwhile you have a chance at being hidden between the end of your turn and your OA's occurence. And if the enemy you are using your OA on is not the same enemy you attacked with BB on your turn, then BB's secondary damage triggers when enemy A moves at their turn too. Cut down on the number of OA's if survivability starts becoming an issue, and be wary of enemies' readied actions and of grapples; particularly of readied grapples. You want expertise in stealth for sure, and some anti-grappling defense; at the very least expertise in either athletics or acribatics. Darkness is mobile, lasts longer and is easier to pick up since it's an illusion spell, but fog cloud eats a lower level slot, covers a larger area and affects more enemies than darkness does. If you cannot count for allies for either of these and you have to pick one yourself, it's a tough choice, and you'd have to also take into account which of blind fighting or devil's sight is more to your preference and/or easier to get.
ps: Greater invisibility can be used to the same effect. You can get it at level 19, so it practically falls under the kind of synergy you'd be looking at your allies for. But it's a spell that is definitelly worth mentioning when discussing rogues.

2) Rolling more dice (additional attacks during your turn and/or advanate during any given turn).
a) Again, the first thing to look at here is potential synergy with allies. Allies who can knock targets prone are often (but not always) a good enough reason to get into melee. Allies who restrain/paralyze targets can generate advantage for your attacks. Faerie fire, greater invisibility, and so on and so forth.
b) To get more attacks, twf is the easiest way for melee. It sacrifices your off hand and it may even sacrifice your bonus action, but it's a good option to have if your first swing misses. To do something similar from range you need the crossbow expert feat and a hand crossbow. Solid choice, but with steady action and with cunning action hiding as potential alternatives, I would not jump on a feat for a little more reliability in that respect. Not when it costs a feat, not when it doesn't have great synergy with EA and thus with the way sneak attack interacts with critical hits, not when it diminishes my range and certainly not when I have other alternatives for the same thing that dont cost me anything other than the use of the same bonus action that the feat would use (ie cunning action hide and steady aim). Besides, the crossbow may average only just a little above (tri)advantage damage wise, but that comes on its head whenever disadvantage becomes a factor, as advantage can cancel it ,while a second crossbow attack still leaves me shut down with no sneak attack damage dice to add. There is of course the extra attack option that you can get from multiclassing, but since that's out for you I digress. Finally, quickened BB and lucky can help here too (similarly action surge too, but again, this requires multiclassing), but these are very limited resources so their value does not rely primarily in boosting dpr.
c) To create advantage for yourself, you've got a few options. As mentioned earlier, obscurement through which you can see not only gives you a chance to sneak attack off turn, but also givs you advanatge against enemies that dont enjoy the same benefit as you (as well as disadvanatge on their attacks and the opportunity to hide too). This is a powerful tactic against many enemies. It's ideal to use when something nasty comes after you when you are far removed from the group (either because your shooting from a distant location or because you are scouting ahead), at least if the option to run away and reposition is not available/preferable. And it's also good when you want to throw yourself in melee intentionally (eg because it's a better approach against the enemy your are facing). Other than that, good old fashioned hiding with your cunning action. Extremelly terrain (and DM) dependent, but it's worth noting that it's an option (and as such you should always look to make the best use you can out of terrain), and moreover it's one of the very few options that can grant advantage to a reaction attack that you make not on your turn (unlike for example steady aim, that only allows for advantage for attacks made on your turn). Good thing is that it's better to rely on advantage from hiding for off turn attacks, and this is because it is usually preferable to hide at the end of your turn and thus spare yourself some pain. Then there is steady aim. Which imo brings ranged rogues back on the map. They really needed this imo. It has one signifcant drawback. Locking yourself in place is not great, and it can get you into trouble, particularly if you use to shoot from range while prone. You need to counteract this movement restriction by ensuring a good spot from where you'll fire. And by good, I mean a spot which will reduce the enemy's opprtunities to take cover, as well as their chances of getting to you. The good thing is that steady aims works always, but to make effective use of it you want to rely on terrain. Thus back it up with anything that allows you to pick where fights are done, and with anything that allows you to (quickly and potentially stealthily) get into a good position. A longbow's range (backed up by sharpshooter for further increasing on that range but also for reducing the effect of cover; which you might allow plenty since firing from very far away) is a very good place to start. And lastly, you can create advantage for yourself by exploiting visibility. Time (and much less frequently environment) dependent, since the easier way to do this is by simply outperformin enemies' darkvision (plenty of ways to do this). Though you could do it in a small number of other ways (which basically boil down to lighting an enemy's location while you shoot at them from the darkness). Good thing is that it does not cost you in actions or resources and that it covers both the attacks made during your turn and during the offturn. So when it applies it's best to count on it than on anything else. But it's not reliable, so it's important to have other options for generating advantage too. Oh, I forgot the familiar. They are fragile, and good for things outside of generating advantage too. So you may not always want to bestow at them such an actiive combat role by having them fly at an enemy's face for generating advantage. At least if you can generate this advantage by other means. But. It's a source of advantage, even if it's only your backup source of advantage that's actually a success as far as I am concerned. And it's one of those advantage sources that can apply to your reaction attacks, unlike say the more reliable but at the same time less flexible steady aim.

3) Thankfully you are not completely in the mercy of finding a magic weapon for dealing with weapon damage resistant enemies.
Shadow blade is a relatively cheap pick, being an illusion spell. It's also useful for the potential advantage it may get you (also good action economy since it's only a bonus action cast), and being able to conjure a weapon out of thin air can be good in certain scenarios. It otherwise doesn't have the best of synergy with the rogue class since they dont get multiple attacks, but so long as you can keep concentration it will be useful for generating advantage and for bypassing enemy resistances (so it's a great situational spell that's also conveniently for us an illusion spell). Main problem is keeping concentration on it. And unless you go out of your way to boost concentration hard and from early on enough, this is a real problem. Also it does nothing for your ranged attacks, so it kind of forces you into melee against damage resistant foes, which in all likelihood means doing some hit&run, since your concentration is already taken so you cannot buff durability with something like a blur or a darkness spell.
The magic weapon spell is your other option. It has a good duration (which also implies even better action economy as a side effect) and it covers both melee and ranged combat. The bonus to attack rolls is not as good as the occasional advantage from shadow blade, but if you've done your job right you dont really count on shadow blade for advantage anyway, so magic weapon's bonus to attacks is a nice small extra something you get out of the spell. The bad news is that it is an expensive pick, since it eats one of your non illusion/enchantment picks, for which there are several good options already. And it lacks shadow blade's niche but nice to have utility of conjuring a weapon out of thin air (though as a rogue I would always try to disguise and sneak weapons on me, such an ability is very nice to have).
Ideally you find an actual magic weapon [item], but if your campaign is tough on those, then it's a hard choice. Do I take magic weapon as my second non illusion/enchantment spell, or do I bite the bullet and deal half damage against foes resistant to weapon damage to free up my non illusion/enchantement spell pick for something better than magic weapon? The answer will be campaign dependent of course. Shadow blade can still be picked anyway even just as a niche option.


EA: If you make it your business to attack with advantage pretty much always, instead of say investing on getting additional attacks (eg crossbow expert), then picking this feat becomes pretty much self explanatory. Good synergy with the way sneak attack works and with counting only on one attack to hit (cause you need the increased hit chance from the tripple advantage to increase your average since it's not an insignificant increase). With EA, expertise, reliable talent and evasion, I think DEX boosts will mostly be missed for the bonus to initiative and to potentially to AC. Meaning, it's entirely possible to leave DEX at 16-18 and go for other feats if you prefer what they'll get you more than a +1AC & +1 initiative.

Observant: Anoter half feat. You most likely want to use it to boost INT, so plan for an odd score if you are getting it. Makes you better at scouting ahead and it's a good defense if you are shooting from a distance. You dont want nasties sneaking up on you when you are in some distance from the rest of your party, and the first line of defense is to know of the danger. Read lips as a bonus.

Sharpshooter: You are not here for the -5/+10. You are here for the increaed range and for ignoring cover which you might allow enough of when shooting from afar. Get it if you want to play a sniper, but make sure you have good ways to utilize the increased range, cause spending feats just for style kind might hurt when there are so many great feat options.

Actor: Yet another half feat. Make the most of your disguises. Expertise performance/deception (depending on what the DM has you roll when impersonating too boldly) recommended. So is the cantrip friends. It may not sound like much but this will add lot of value to how you can approach the social pillar with your character.

Resilient: Con for singleclass arcane tricksters. You want that. Probably around the time you get haste, if not sooner. Not just for concentration. Lots of nasty effects can test your con, and even one of the weaker ones (poison) can hurt you a lot, since suffering disadvantage is no joke for a rogue.

Sentinel: Can be very rewarding, but I think it requires some groundwork before you take it. Certainly look at your allies too. Not taking sentinel can be a really good decision, so make sure it's worth taking before you do. Unless you are planning specifically for it and/or unless the party composition calls for it, it's probably better as a late level pick, and that's in case you do end up taking it.

Moderately armored: Get a shield (and medium armor). Throw a blur on and now you can be a tank on demand.

Fighting initiate: Blind fighting. For seeing while in heavily obscured areas. Rogues excel in such a situation. Dont even think about another fighting style. Even if you are a dedicted archer (at least to the extent that a rogue can be dedicated just to one combat approach). Even as an archer you'll need to have a backup tactic for when someone gets in your face, and running wont always be the best option, or one at all. It's both a fallback tactic for when things go wrong, but it can has god offensive uses too. Eventually replaced by blindsense, so you might want to be patient for this one if you are aiming at a singleclass build.

Eldritch adept: For devil's sight. Same as above, though it only works with darkness, so a lot more restrictive. On the plus side it gives you super darkvision. Thus making you better at scouting and at range (also adds to the things that can make good use of your increased range; eg longbow/sharpshooter). Too much overlap to justify getting both this feat and the one above.

Metamagic adept: Quicken and subtle. Quicken because you dont want to miss on sneak attack opportunities when casting on your turn (yeah, occasionally you will want to cast a spell). You probably want to delay it and pick it when both your spells and sneak attack have grown stronger. Subtle adds mainly to the social pillar and you have easy access to some spells that play well with it (a shame that detect thoughts is divination though, as it's harder to justify picking it as an AT).

These are the first feats that come to mind. They are quite a lot, and I am definitely forgetting about other good ones. Skulker can be good on a rogue (though investing on creting obcurement is more of a sure bet imo). Lucky is decent on a rogue. A feat for maneuvers can be good (trip, riposte, brace, feinting; take your pick) for a rogue, even if it is generally lackluster for more other characters. Heck, even MAM will be useful, especially if you are planning for sentinel later on. And you wouldn't mind maxing your DEX and INT either.

Lack of feats is what is keeping your vesatility in check. Ideally you multiclass to go around this. For example, a single fighter level is the same as getting moderately armored and blind fighting, so if you want these along with a number of other feats, then this is a good way to get them. It also gets you the part you want out of resilient con (at the cost of dex save prof but evasion has you covered for half the stuff that will target your dex anyway). This kind of trade can be worth it if you think the rate by which you are getting feats is holding you down.


Cantrips: BB, Minor Illusion, Mold earth, message, dancing lights, mending, friends, control flames and prestidigitation are solid choices. Some more than others, but you have to account for preference too. Is it too late to throw magic initiate on the above feat list? Dont miss out on mold earth if you make it your bussiness to try and pick the battlefield. Complement it with silent image (and/or with minor illusion).

Non enchantment/illusion spells: Find familiar and fog cloud are probably the best 1st level choices. Might be worth aiming for both at level 8. Magic weapon is a decent 2nd level pick. So is levitate (both because it can help position yourself, but also because of the synergy it has with magical ambush; look for spells that allow for a single save to paid with magical ambush, so eg levitate and hypnotic pattern). Detect thoughts could be very nice if you end up getting subtle through a feat. Faerie fire is another option, since you like sources of advantages but mostly because invisible foes are a pest to rogues. You might want to consider misty step too (mainly as an antigrappling second line of defense) if you delve too much into hit&hide tactics. Haste is the obvious 3rd level pick. Dimension door most likely as the late pick.

Enchantment/illusion spells: Invisibility, disguise self, silent image, blur, mirror image, suggestion (especially if grabbing subtle), shadow blade, hiddeous laughter, charm monster, hypnottic patern, greater invisibility. Probably missed an important spell or two.



Race: High elf
STR 8, DEX 18, CON 12, INT 16, WIS 10, CHA 14
Skills: Athletics (expertise), Perception (expertise), Performance (expertise), Stealth (expertise), Deception, Sleight of hand, Investigation
Feats: EA, Actor, Eldritch adept (devil's sight), Observant
Cantrips: Friends, Mold earth, BB, Message
Spells: Find familiar, Disguise self, Illusory script, Silent image, Tasha's hiddeous laughter, Invisibility, Darkness, Levitate.

Race: Wood elf
STR 8, DEX 18, CON 14, INT 15, WIS 10, CHA 12
Skills: Athletics (expertise), Perception (expertise), Stealth (expertise), Intimidation (expertise), Sleight of hand, Investigation, Arcana
Feats: EA, Sharpshooter, Moderately armored, Resilient CON
Cantrips: BB, Mold earth, Minor illusion
Spells: Find familiar, Tasha's hiddeous laughter, silent image, invisibility, shadow blade, blur, misty step, mirror image

*I'll put a bit more effort in the builds and probably write a small description of what each ones is supposed to do tomorrow.

[RogueJK]

Faerie fire is another option, since you like sources of advantages but mostly because invisible foes are a pest to rogues.

Faerie Fire isn't a Wizard spell, so it's not available to ATs even as an off-school pick. If you want FF, you'd need to get it from a Bard, Druid, Artificer, Ranger, Archfey Warlock, or Twilight/Light Cleric dip, from Magic Initiate, or as a racial ability from Drow or Fairy.

Of those options, either a 1 level Artificer dip or the Fairy race likely makes the most sense, since they're the only way to get INT-based Faerie Fire.

[Corran]

Faerie Fire isn't a Wizard spell, so it's not available to ATs even as an off-school pick. If you want FF, you'd need to get it from a Bard, Druid, Artificer, Ranger, Archfey Warlock, or Twilight/Light Cleric dip, from Magic Initiate, or as a racial ability from Drow or Fairy.
Yep, you are right. My drow has it and at that point in the post I was just trying to finish it up quickly by going from memory.


If you plan to use steady aim all the time, you should get a mount....
nab phantom steed now you can attack, move up to 200 feet, so basically in the open no one will be able to catch you, all while you are using steady aim.
Stealing this.



3) Cantrips.
- Take Dancing Lights.
...
Combined with the Skulker Feat and against the right opponents, you can literally make or break battles with this cantrip by manipulating light to your advantage.
Hmm, this makes me think of a high elf arcane trickster with a twilight cleric dip.


Plus it sets you up to eventually be able to take the Wood Elf Magic feat, which is fantastic for a sneaky/stealthy/scouty characters, letting you cast Longstrider for even more extra movement speed, Pass Without Trace for a huge boost to the party's Stealth (stacking on top of your already super high Stealth from high DEX+Proficiency+Expertise+Reliable Talent), and a Druid cantrip like Guidance to boost other skill checks.
Oh, good point. Pass without trace alone would be a great pick if no one else gets it. So many good feats but this one can be worth it.

[Witty Username]

A neat idea I saw recently, take the ritual caster feat, and grab phantom steed. That will give you options for movement in combat while using steady aim.

[5eNeedsDarksun]

These things work right out of the box. You have a familiar for advantage; you have blade cantrips if you get caught in tight. You have spells that support the kind of play you'd want both in and out of combat, including an invisible mage hand.

Be very cautious about taking dips for features that you think you need, particularly into spellcasting classes. AT progression is very linear and a dip into a spellcasting class will cost you not just sneak attack damage, but often a level feature as well as the rounding benefit you get from being a 1/3 caster. Keep in mind you do get an extra ASI at 10th level, so if there's something you really want or find you need as you progress then Feats/ ASI is an option.

As per the question you asked re: Int, I'd say there's no reason to have less than a 14. Chr and Str can be hard dumps unless you're married to one of these for role playing, and that still leaves you room for a moderate Wis. If you want faster spell progression and a little more variety, everyone's favorite 1/2 feat (Fey Touched) is great for your character with a +1 Int, Misty Step and maybe Bless. So by level 8 you could have 18 Dex + EA, 16 Int + Fey Touched, 14 Con. If you wanted the Dex first you could pick up the Fey touched at 10. As others have pointed out you could go with another combat feat, and probably leave Int at 14, which would get you Wis 12 at the outset.

[Corran]

3) Cantrips.
- Take Dancing Lights....
Combined with the Skulker Feat and against the right opponents, you can literally make or break battles with this cantrip by manipulating light to your advantage.
I have been thinking a bit more about this. And I am wondering if it works in bright light. Leaning to say no (cause the lighting is a byproduct of the spell effect, or so I think), but at the same time I really want it to because it opens up to some very interesting possibilities. Can anyone shed some... light?:smallamused:

[Wasp]

Ah... So many interesting fest, so few ASIs... I really like the Ritual Caster idea, both for Familiar resurrection and a possible Phantom Steed. Although being mounted inside still feels very weird... *g*

But i definitely think I'll stay purely rogue. I don't know if dipping for specific spells etc is worth it, considering the tiers for play...

[anamiac]

I rolled a high elf rogue in my Friday night discord game. She started out evil, and has slowly been learning to become a better person, even if her party members won't let her forget. She's also an Aasimar, but that was not by choice (reincarnation).

It's been a couple years, and she's currently a level 3 assassin / level 13 Samurai. She's a better fighter than rogue.

I action surge assassinated and did 231 damage in a surprise round a few months ago (at level 15), killing an enemy boss before they even knew I was there. This doesn't happen very often at all, and isn't a good reason to take this class combination. However, the two extra attacks are useful all the time, and probably do more damage than the sneak attack dice I'm missing out on.

I took mage hand for my level 1 cantrip, but lost it with the reincarnation. Feats include sharpshooter, elven accuracy, and piercer.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

But you want to play your own character, not mine? Fair enough. If you're using a bow, I would suggest sharpshooter, elven accuracy, fighting initiate (archery), piercer.

You might consider two weapon fighting at certain levels. Throwing two darts, one with your main hand and one with your off hand, gives you six dice to roll and that's much more likely to give you a chance to get a crit and double your sneak attack dice, not to mention it makes it extremely unlikely you'll outright miss for your turn. This requires you to get closer to the enemies that want to kill you.
And it might require a feat (fighting initiate again to pick up the thrown weapon fighting style). It sort of depends on what your DM will let you get away with.