Would Bestow curse work on undead in regard of ability scores?

[Nikker]

Hello everyone,
I was wondering about 3.5 Bestow curse's exact wording.

I'll quote the srd:
Bestow Curse
Necromancy
(...)
Target: Creature touched
Duration: Permanent
(...)
You place a curse on the subject. Choose one of the following three effects.

-6 decrease to an ability score (minimum 1).
-4 penalty on attack rolls, (...)

So... What the h*ck is a decrease?
It's not worded as it was an ability damage, in fact it's permanent until the curse is undone.
It's not worded as a drain.
It's not even worded as a penalty, if they wrote "penalty" in the following phrase why didn't they write in the ability score phrase too?

I have questions about this "decrease":

1) would It work on undead, since it's not a damage nor a drain? (Bestow curse is necromancy but it's not a death effect, and undead are only immune to death effects, not to necromancy in general)
2) would it stack with itself? I know penalties don't stack if they come from the same source, but what about a decrease? Is it to be treated as a penalty? Are there official answers about that?

Thank you all

[Kurald Galain]

3E's rules aren't written in legalese, and "decrease" is a straightforward English word. So you take the creature's ability score (say, dexterity) and decrease its value by six, and calculate AC, reflex, and so forth accordingly.

And that's it. There's nothing about undead that makes them immune to "decreases" (or for that matter, "curses" or "necromancy" either); and there's nothing about "decreases" that makes their victim immune to further "decreases". There you go.

[Gruftzwerg]

decrease <-> increase
penalty <-> bonus

increases from different sources stack unless they say otherwise (see Ability Score Increase from lvlUp as reference)
penalties and bonuses generally stack (unless from the same spell, see below)

Stacking the same spells effect has its own rules. See Combining Magical Effects (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/castingSpells.htm#combiningMagicalEffects)


Same Effect with Differing Results

The same spell can sometimes produce varying effects if applied to the same recipient more than once. Usually the last spell in the series trumps the others. None of the previous spells are actually removed or dispelled, but their effects become irrelevant while the final spell in the series lasts.

Bestow Curse can produce "varying effects" and thus only the last spells "effect" works, while the other are irrelevant in the meanwhile.

[Jack_Simth]

decrease <-> increase
penalty <-> bonus

increases from different sources stack unless they say otherwise (see Ability Score Increase from lvlUp as reference)
penalties and bonuses generally stack (unless from the same spell, see below)

Stacking the same spells effect has its own rules. See Combining Magical Effects (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/castingSpells.htm#combiningMagicalEffects)



Bestow Curse can produce "varying effects" and thus only the last spells "effect" works, while the other are irrelevant in the meanwhile.
Which also has the interesting effect of being able to suspend another's curse - even that from a more powerful caster - by placing one of your own. Book of Vile Darkness has several, including "sterility" - which a lot of adventurers simply wouldn't mind.

[InvisibleBison]

Which also has the interesting effect of being able to suspend another's curse - even that from a more powerful caster - by placing one of your own. Book of Vile Darkness has several, including "sterility" - which a lot of adventurers simply wouldn't mind.

I don't know about that. The rule says "Usually the last spell in the series trumps the others", which means that sometimes something else happens. Admittedly, it's up to the DM as to how multiple curses would work, but I think it's reasonable to say that bestow curse is an unusual case and subsequent curses don't override earlier ones.

[Mike Miller]

As stated already, it is a decrease. It isn't ability drain/damage so it will work on undead.