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LibraryOgre
2022-02-19, 02:19 PM
I talked with a friend yesterday who did not like the original College of Arcana... he felt it gave way too much, and overshadowed the College of Lore. This version is a bit different... they have a bit more access to bard spells (though they still cast them as wizards), and much less access to Wizard spells (topping off at 3 schools, plus any from Magical Secrets)


College of Arcana
The college of Arcana bards are different from the other Bards, and broke off from the College of Lore about three score years ago. While the College of Lore focuses on a breadth of knowledge, the College of Arcana focuses exclusively on the study of magic. In that study, they learn the basic secrets of wizardly magic; not the indepth secrets of the wizard schools, but enough that they begin to keep a spellbook and prepare spells like a wizard, in addition to some access to bard magic.

3rd: Additional Skill

At 3rd level, College of Arcana bards receive proficiency in Arcana, or in another skill of choice if they are already proficient. They may apply their 3rd level Bard expertise to Arcana, even if they just learned it.

3rd: Wizard Magic

At 3rd level, the College of Arcana bard switches their style of casting to that of a Wizard; they maintain a spellbook, may learn new spells from the spellbooks of wizards and other bards of the College, and prepare spells each morning. They use Intelligence as their casting attribute, are able to cast any of their prepared spells using any appropriate slots, and so on; all as outlined under "Spellcasting" in the Wizard class description, and the Your Spellbook sidebar, on page 114 of the Player's Handbook.

Their initial spellbook contains all of their 1st level Bard spells, as well as a 2nd level spell from either the Bard spell list or from their chosen Wizard schools. They may no longer cast spells as Bards; Charisma is no longer their casting attribute, and they must prepare spells, not cast spontaneously. They do retain Bardic ritual casting, but may not longer use musical instruments as arcane foci, though they may use arcane foci appropriate to wizards.

As they learned Bardic Magic first, they do have the bonus that all 5 of the bard spells they learned at 1st and 2nd level are prepared at all times. As they advance in levels, they learn spells from either the Bard list or their selected Wizard schools, and all of these spells must be prepared. They may not learn additional Bard spells except through level gain or by finding them in the spellbook of another bard of the College of Arcana. Wizards are not able to cast these Bard spells (unless they are also Wizard spells).

3rd Level: School Selection
At levels 3, 6, and 14, the bard selects a single wizard school. They may learn and cast spells from this school, and gain the 2nd level features of this school. Thus, one bard may learn Evocation, and thus gain Evocation Savant and Sculpt spells, while another may learn Necromancy, and gain Necromancy Savant and Grim Harvest.

Additional Note: Magical Secrets
At levels 10, 14, and 18, bards may select 2 spells, of a level they can cast, and learn them as Bard spells. In the hands of an Arcana Bard, these spells are recorded in the Bard's spellbook, but cannot be learned by Bard or Wizard, unless they are normally Bard or Wizard spells; otherwise, they are simply too esoteric for those casters to unravel. Wizard spells acquired through Magical Secrets do not need to be from one of the Bard's chosen schools.

LibraryOgre
2024-01-30, 03:44 PM
Wow, my original was way too complicated.

College of Arcana
The college of Arcana are different from the other Bards, and broke off from the College of Lore about three score years ago. While the College of Lore focuses on a breadth of knowledge, the College of Arcana focuses exclusively on the study of magic. In that study, they learn the basic secrets of wizardly magic; not the indepth secrets of the wizard schools, but enough that they begin to keep a spellbook and prepare spells like a wizard, in addition to some access to bard magic.

3rd: Additional Skill
At 3rd level, College of Arcana bards receive proficiency in Arcana, or in another skill of choice if they are already proficient. They may apply their 3rd level Bard expertise to Arcana, even if they just learned it.

3rd: Wizard Magic
At 3rd level, Bards of the College of Arcana begin to learn spells as wizards do, in addition to their bardic magic. As Wizards, they maintain spellbooks of known Wizard spells, and may prepare their level plus Intelligence bonus in spells from their wizard spellbook, just as wizards do. Their casting attribute for wizard spells is Intelligence, so their attack bonus with wizard spells is their Intelligence Bonus + Proficiency Bonus, and the saving throw against wizard spells is 8 + Intelligence Modifier + Proficiency Bonus. They may use Wizard spellcasting focuses, and may cast wizard ritual magic (from their allowed schools) just as wizards do. They do not gain any wizard cantrips, but as they acquire more cantrips (at 4th and 10th levels), they may choose a wizard cantrip or a bard cantrip, as they wish. Wizard cantrips do not need to conform to their allowed schools.

3rd Level: School Selection
At levels 3, the bard selects two wizard schools from among Abjuration, Conjuration, Divination, Enchantment, Evocation, Illusion, Necromancy, and Transmutation. They may learn and cast spells from this school, and gain the 2nd level features of this school. Thus, one bard may learn Evocation, and thus gain Evocation Savant and Sculpt Spells, while another may learn Necromancy, and gain Necromancy Savant and Grim Harvest. At levels 6 and 14, an additional school is chosen, gaining the 2nd level benefits of those schools, as well. They may not learn or cast Wizard magic from any other school, save if they are Bard spells learned as a Bard, or through their Magical Secrets class feature.

Additional Note: Magical Secrets
At levels 10, 14, and 18, bards may select 2 spells, of a level they can cast, and learn them as Bard spells. In the hands of an Arcana Bard, these spells are learned as both Bard and Wizard spells, and recorded in their spellbook. These spells cannot be learned by other Wizards, unless they are normally Wizard spells; otherwise, they are simply too esoteric for those casters to unravel. Wizard spells acquired through Magical Secrets do not need to be from one of the Bard's chosen schools.

MrStabby
2024-02-04, 10:06 PM
I am not totally sure this works for me. It seems the overlap with wizard is too much.

If you want wizard spells, you can play lore bad and get some more with extra magical secrets. If you want cantrips then there are feats for that. Between magical secrets and the overlap in spells you should be able to get most wizard spells... if you want even more wizard spes than that, you woudn't be taking many bard exclusive spells at all... so you can play a wizard for most of the sam stuff.

Either way you still need high Int so it also feels a bit like a bard wizard multiclass. Getting wizard features as your class abilities aso feels like its taking away from the uniqueness rather than adding.

I like some of this though - the addition of the spelbook can turn the arcana bard into a collector of arcane knowdge, which feelsright. I would maybe use Int for numbr of spes prepaed, but keep them as bard spells so Int is nice to have, but not vital. Alow ritual casting from spellbook.

Give a free wizard cantrip maybe?. At low levels and on a bard this wil actually see some use.

Maybe use somthing like a bardic insiration to change the damage type of a spell? That would feel a bit more unique, fits the bard pattern, and could b a nice fusion of a dep understanding of arcane magic an the bardic propensity to improvise?


Its a tricky subclass - I think I ned to realy give it more thouht though.

LibraryOgre
2024-02-06, 03:39 PM
Either way you still need high Int so it also feels a bit like a bard wizard multiclass. Getting wizard features as your class abilities aso feels like its taking away from the uniqueness rather than adding.

I like some of this though - the addition of the spelbook can turn the arcana bard into a collector of arcane knowdge, which feelsright. I would maybe use Int for numbr of spes prepaed, but keep them as bard spells so Int is nice to have, but not vital. Alow ritual casting from spellbook.


To an extent, it IS a bard/wizard multiclass, and intentionally so, for two reasons:

1) I hate per-level multiclassing. I prefer such things to be handled through subclasses, or feats.
2) I miss the 2e bard, who picked up wizard spells, instead of having a unique magic of their own.

The original version tried to switch their magic from Bard to Wizard, which made it a PITA. This version gives them some wizardry, just sharing spell slots as a multi-class would.

MrStabby
2024-02-06, 08:43 PM
I guess my question is, why? Not in a rhetorical kind of way, nor with any kind of snide tone... just what are you trying to achieve? So we can try and fix it.

To me it sems a bit redundant. Even puting multiclassing aside, with a lore bard and using magical secrets for wizard spells, maybe one of the Ravnica Backgrounds or Eberron races to grab specific spells... it fels like you can already build a strong wizardy themed bard. Not even using all of those elements - a lore bard alone seems pretty close. How many wizard splls do you catually need that magical secrets won't work?

I feel there is somehing therefore more than just access to wizard spells the class is aiming for. What problem or gap are your trying to solve? How can you tell if any given calss is a good answer to that.

What role should this class play that the core bard might struggle with? I could see something like a blaster being an example - the wildfire druid or light cleric of the bard class - and here the ability to keep swapping out obsolete damage spells for better scaling ones could be useful.

LibraryOgre
2024-02-08, 12:02 PM
To me it sems a bit redundant. Even puting multiclassing aside, with a lore bard and using magical secrets for wizard spells, maybe one of the Ravnica Backgrounds or Eberron races to grab specific spells... it fels like you can already build a strong wizardy themed bard. Not even using all of those elements - a lore bard alone seems pretty close. How many wizard splls do you catually need that magical secrets won't work?


I want a bard who is motivated to go out and find magic spells. A core bard, even with Magical Secrets, has no reason to do so... if he's getting XP for it, he'll get the same number of spells playing a lute as he will delving into dungeons. Magical Secrets is, mechanically, picking spells off a list, not finding and acquiring magic. The other approach would be to bardify a wizard subclass, including such things as expertise and jack of all trades.

MrStabby
2024-02-11, 06:55 PM
I want a bard who is motivated to go out and find magic spells. A core bard, even with Magical Secrets, has no reason to do so... if he's getting XP for it, he'll get the same number of spells playing a lute as he will delving into dungeons. Magical Secrets is, mechanically, picking spells off a list, not finding and acquiring magic. The other approach would be to bardify a wizard subclass, including such things as expertise and jack of all trades.

OK, working with what you want the option to do...

If you let the bard find and add spells to a spell-book to supliment their core spell list but let it be any spell list then it would weaken the overlap with wizard and might be a bit more attracive. It would need a DM to be actively engaged in regulating the power of that feature though (much as they are required to do with Druid Wildshape). Keeping Int as the casting stat for these spells might also balance the power increase.

Another route you might consider could be warlock. Book of ancient secrets/pact of the tome does some of this, and on a Charisma caster as well. For pushing that motivation to travel and learn it fits well. A new patron that instead of giving spells enabled them to be put into a spellbook as a class feature might be interesting. This would also be a bit asier to balance due to pact casting - always having the perfct spell of any level you have spell slots for is much less powerful with only one level of spell slot. I would certainly love for a warlock that had more mechanical support for seeking out forbidden knowledge etc.; it would feel very warlock-y.