Support cleric?

[Rfkannen]

I love the theme of the cleric class, it has my favorite flavor of any class, but none of my experiences with it have been super positive.

My main cleric went from level 1 to 17, and I found the amount of healing I could do as a life cleric to be utterly pointless. Combat was never deadly enough for more than one person to go down per encounter, and a single healing word got them back up. And outside of healing, I felt I didn't have the support capability of your average bard or wizard. I also fell hard into the tank paradox, my character was practically immortal, but intelligent enemies just stopped attacking him.

I have played some damage-focused clerics, and they were super fun holy blenders (spirit guardians is my favorite damage spell in the whole game), but I prefer my clerics to be more support characters than damage characters.

Are there any clerics that work well as support-focused characters in a low-lethality campaign where healing isn't super important? I would prefer to avoid twilight and peace domains as they are too much for my tastes.

Besides the point, but I started thinking about clerics again because I was doodling and made this guy.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FL7waWPVcAQDFdE?format=png&name=360x360

And now I really want to play him as a cleric.

[ATHATH]

If you want healing, Life Clerics with a dip in Druid (or the other way around) can cast Disciple of Life-boosted Goodberry, which creates 10 Goodberries that heal 4 HP EACH, allowing them to trade a single 1st level spell slot for 40 HP's worth of out of combat healing (that can also double as in-combat 0 hp yo-yo healing, especially if you have a familiar or the like).

If you want in-combat support, I'm partial to Order Clerics with the Fey Touched (Silvery Barbs) feat (or a dip in a class that has access to it), especially if you have a Rogue in the party. Silvery Barbs targets both the person you're giving disadvantage to and the person you're giving advantage to, so you can use it to trigger Voice of Authority as a reaction to allow a party member to spend their reaction to make a melee attack with advantage. If you have a Rogue, this will basically double their damage output, as it'll allow them to consistently get off-turn sneak attacks (sneak attacks have a once per TURN restriction, not a once per ROUND restriction) that don't even have to target someone who's being flanked (as Silvery Barbs will be giving them advantage on those attacks).

Meanwhile, you're still mostly free to do what you'd like on your actual turns (Silvery Barbs only consumes reactions and spell slots), like casting Bless (giving ANOTHER member of the party the ability to make a reaction melee attack), Spiritual Weapon, etc. You can even deal some solid damage in melee yourself if you grab one or both SCAG cantrips and use them alongside Spiritual Weapon and/or your ability to cast Enchantment spells as a bonus actions (why hello there, Hold Person!).

[ATHATH]

Fair warning, an Aberrant Sorcerer with an Order Cleric dip is kind of just better than the Order Cleric with an AS dip (with a Rogue in the party) that I mentioned above, due to being able to spam Silvery Barbs much more efficiently (they can break down their 2nd level slots into 2 SB castings each and can turn their Sorcery Points into SB castings at a 1:1 ratio) and having a better spell list (especially if you want to concentrate on Bless instead of Spiritual Guardians to distinguish yourself from your previous character). Order Clerics with Aberrant Sorcerer dips, meanwhile, rapidly hemorrhage spell slots in combat, only being able to cast SB 7 times before needing to spend 3rd level spell slots and/or their Channel Divinity in order to cast it again without taking a long rest first.

You could go pure Order Cleric and try to argue that you're better than an AS with an OC dip due to getting access to higher leveled spells known faster... but you'll end up needing to expend a lot of resources getting access to CON save proficiency, the ability to cast Silvery Barbs (more than once per day), AND a the ability to cast a SCAG cantrip... all of which you could get from a single level of Aberrant Sorcerer. The earliest you could get all three of those components as a pure Order Cleric is 8th level, by which point the AS-dipping-OC build has already hit the 6th level AS feature and is casting SB dozens of times per day.

tldr; I was kind of overselling Voice of Authority + Silvery Barbs in my previous post, it's only really as good as I make it out to be if you focus on Aberrant Sorcerer instead of Order Cleric (it's still a solid combo on an Order Cleric-focused build, mind).

[Greywander]

Maybe a Grave cleric? Any cleric is a good support character, so I don't think you really need to choose a specific subclass; it's more about how you play the character, which spells you use, etc. So do consider that, or else even on a support-oriented subclass you might not feel like much of a support character. That said, as a Grave cleric, you get:

Max heals on creatures at 0 HP, and a ranged Spare the Dying as a BA.
You can double the damage a creature takes from the next attack to hit them. Great if you have a rogue or paladin in the party.
You can turn crits against your party into normal hits.
You can do an actionless minor heal every time (once per round) an enemy dies.

So you get a bit of healing, you can increase the damage your allies deal, and you can protect your party from crits. Pretty solid as a support package, and nothing too crazy (except maybe the double damage thing).

[ImproperJustice]

Nature is often overlooked, but provides some good control alongside staples like Bless, Aid, and Heroes Feast.

Spike Growth, Plant Growth, Wind Wall, Grasping Vine, and then their elemental ward is all solid stuff.

Shillelagh and Heavy Armor lets you punch above your weight class.

[Greywander]

Shillelagh and Heavy Armor lets you punch above your weight class.
Indeed. For most weapon clerics, they would need to spend two ASIs to boost their STR to 20, or they could just spend one ASI to get Shillelagh. Getting it for free is even better.

Of course, I favor caster clerics, and would trade Divine Strike for Potent Spellcasting any day of the week. If you do get into melee, it's nearly a 50% damage boost for Word of Radiance, and you don't need to wield a weapon at all so you can just keep that hand free for casting spells. You don't have to bother boosting STR or getting Shillelagh, either. I know Blessed Strikes exists, and it's okay, but it's just not the same.

If I could play a Nature cleric with Potent Spellcasting, I'd probably give serious consideration to grabbing Thorn Whip or even Produce Flame. One thing the cleric lacks are any attack cantrips, and these ones are flavorful and have secondary uses.

[Rfkannen]

Order cleric is a fun one! It does seem best as a dip for other classes, but would be fun by itself as well!
I hadn't looked at grave cleric properly, it has basically everything I liked about a cleric's support capabilities turned up to 11! great option!
nature cleric is an interesting one, thematically I have always felt it was a bit too close to the druid, but the mechanics are really fun once you point them out! I always thought of their level one feature as "get shilaylay" but if your using tasha's rules thorn whip seems like a super fun option!!

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/935636024745398285/944843362450669568/Untitled_Artwork.png?width=408&height=606

[Greywander]

I find the fact that your drawing just has "gods" written on the... pouch? satchel? bucket? whatever it is to be really funny. It's like my avatar who is holding a book that simply reads "ye holy book" (though it's hard to see with his hand covering it).

(My avatar is from an old OotS-inspired webcomic that I started, then abandoned after making a few pages. The character is a paladin of Uranus, god of nuclear weapons. Hence the radiation sign on his hammer, and the "glowing green rock" aesthetic. And yes, he's heard all the "ur anus" jokes. It may surprise you that he was the straight man of the party, a foil to the other character's wacky antics.)

[Frogreaver]

I love the theme of the cleric class, it has my favorite flavor of any class, but none of my experiences with it have been super positive.

My main cleric went from level 1 to 17, and I found the amount of healing I could do as a life cleric to be utterly pointless. Combat was never deadly enough for more than one person to go down per encounter, and a single healing word got them back up. And outside of healing, I felt I didn't have the support capability of your average bard or wizard. I also fell hard into the tank paradox, my character was practically immortal, but intelligent enemies just stopped attacking him.

I have played some damage-focused clerics, and they were super fun holy blenders (spirit guardians is my favorite damage spell in the whole game), but I prefer my clerics to be more support characters than damage characters.

Are there any clerics that work well as support-focused characters in a low-lethality campaign where healing isn't super important? I would prefer to avoid twilight and peace domains as they are too much for my tastes.

Besides the point, but I started thinking about clerics again because I was doodling and made this guy.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FL7waWPVcAQDFdE?format=png&name=360x360

And now I really want to play him as a cleric.

First some suggestions on the support Life Cleric.


Bless is your Bread and Butter support buff. Feel free to upcast it to hit more of the party. Its boost to saves is more important than it's boost to attack rolls.
Forget healing word. Use your channel divinity. When someone is down or low on hp use that to heal them to half hp (or close to it).
Aid can help boost ally hp so that the channel divinity heals them more effectively (since it's max is half their hp)
Other important combat spells. Command and Blindness/Deafness as neither are concentration and both are solid control spells (which will help you feel like you are supporting your allies).
Lesser Restoration, Dispel Magic and Greater Restoration as making sure your allies can act is more important than healing at some point.
Also, Dispel Evil and Good is such a game changer when fighting extra-planar creatures or undead.
Word of Recall is a great retreat option.


Outside combat, I'd have the support cleric focus on divination spells. Augury, Divination, Clairvoyance, Scrying, Commune, etc. Knowledge is power.

If you really want out of life cleric then i'd look at Nature (shileleagh, plant growth, resistance to elemental damage as a reaction), arcana (if the DM has you fight against mages alot), order (attack granting is great), trickery (great domain spells for support)

I'm not sure what other kinds of support options you are looking for?

[Bobthewizard]

Life clerics are great in a deadly game. Warding bond and life transference to split damage with your tank, followed by healing that gives extra healing to both of you. Then your channel divinity to prevent the TPK.

But, yes, in a less deadly game, you can find yourself sitting around with little else to do. Although heavy armor and spirit guardians is a great combo.

[ATHATH]

Indeed. For most weapon clerics, they would need to spend two ASIs to boost their STR to 20, or they could just spend one ASI to get Shillelagh. Getting it for free is even better.

Lowkey, Shillelagh is kind of a trap option. You're going to want your STR to be at least 15 for heavy armor anyway, so using your WIS stat of 16 instead of your STR stat of 15 isn't much of a difference. Assuming you're using a shield (and thus can't two-hand a quarterstaff to get that d8 damage die without spending a cantrip), that's basically a +1 attack/+2 damage on your emergency "I don't have anything else to do this turn, so I guess I'll hit him with my stick?" option, assuming you have it up from constantly casting it outside of combat or something. If you need to put up Shillelagh IN combat, then you're burning your bonus action AND disabling your ability to cast leveled spells for a turn (since you just cast a spell with a bonus action), which is really anti-synergistic with spells like Spiritual Weapon. The gap between your WIS stat and your STR stat will only start to increase at your second ASI at the earliest, since your first ASI is going to be used on Resilient (CON).

[ATHATH]

Forget healing word. Use your channel divinity. When someone is down or low on hp use that to heal them to half hp (or close to it).
IDK man, being able to yo-yo someone up from 0 HP and still make an attack is pretty nice. I guess if you have Spiritual Weapon up, your bonus action might be more valuable than your action?

[Greywander]

Lowkey, Shillelagh is kind of a trap option. You're going to want your STR to be at least 15 for heavy armor anyway, so using your WIS stat of 16 instead of your STR stat of 15 isn't much of a difference.
But what about when your WIS is 20 and your STR is still 15?

You're not wrong, it's better to boost STR to 20, but it also costs you at least two ASIs, whereas one ASI could get you Shillelagh. The downsides of Shillelagh might be worth it to get another feat.

You could also just leave STR at 15 and hope you find Gauntlets of Ogre Power and/or a Belt of Giant's Strength, assuming there isn't someone else in the party who could make better use of it. But this is part of why I'd take Potent Spellcasting before Divine Strike any day of the week. It makes you SAD, and cantrips are just stronger, anyway. Weapon attacks have the potential to be stronger, but you need to invest more to make that happen.

[Frogreaver]

IDK man, being able to yo-yo someone up from 0 HP and still make an attack is pretty nice. I guess if you have Spiritual Weapon up, your bonus action might be more valuable than your action?

There's multiple possibilities when it comes to yo-yo healing. A few of the bad ones are listed below.


You heal them, they are hit again before their turn and are immediately downed again. Attacks continue to head their way and they potentially die.
You heal them, they get their turn and attack. After their turn they are hit and immediately downed again. Attacks continue to head their way and they potentially die.
You heal them, they are hit again and downed. You heal them again. Repeat until combat is over. (Consumes spell slots fast).


IMO, yo-yo healing is great when the best case scenario you mentioned happens. It's not so great when one of the scenarios I mentioned above happens.

Now consider why yo-yo healing is traditionally considered so strong in comparison to other healing spells. It's because other healing spells rarely heal much more than a healing word does on a single combat turn. So, if an ally would drop to 0 hp after healing word they almost certainly will drop to 0 after other healing spells as well. Couple that with the fact that you can still cast a cantrip or attack when using healing word and it's a no brainer to view it as one of the best healing spells out there. Preserve life is different because it actually heals substantially more than a healing word and other healing spells. It heals enough to actually keep an ally from dropping right back down to 0. This eliminates the risks mentioned above. It also spares at least 1 spell slot if not more. It leaves open your bonus action and there's some powerful turns you can have if you use a good bonus action spell at the right time with Preserve Life (One of my personal favorite combos was to counter AOE attacks with Preserve Life + Mass Healing Word - often nearly healed all the damage of AOE heavy enemies).

[sambojin]

War Cleric 2/ Wizard 1/ War Cleric X?

Or maybe go to lvl3-6 and then grab the wizard level. It depends what level you're starting at.

But the wizard MC is mostly for ritual casting and Shield and Find Familiar (*the* helper spell). Though chucking out a Fog Cloud, popping Longstrider on someone, or Protection from Good and Evil is handy (yeah, it's a cleric spell too, but save the prep slot).

So, +3 cantrips, and adding up-to 3-4 of: Comprehend Languages (might be worthless), Detect Magic, Find Familiar (never worthless$$), Tensor's Floating Disc (actually way more useful than it looks), Identify (less useful than it looks), and Unseen Servant (exactly as useful as it looks). And 2-3 "real spells".

War cleric really only does support at lvl1 with Bless, and then lvl6 with "I made the attack roll you did succeed". Plus, all the other stuff clerics do, and you never have to prep SW or SG, so you got two extra spell preps. Maybe for Enhance Ability and Guiding Bolt. Done!

I don't even know if I'd bother really having medium to high Intelligence. 12Int would do. The versatility from the MC paid for itself.

Booming Blade, Mage Hand, Mold Earth for the cantrips (or throw in Prestidigitation).

Shield and Fog Cloud for the real preps (or Disguise Self or Absorb Elements).

Find Familiar, Detect Magic, Identify, and Tensor's Flying Disc for the ritual casts. Sweet, done, easy MC. And you can even spring in a 2nd wizard LVL later if you want Divination dice or something.

[RogueJK]

I don't even know if I'd bother really having medium to high Intelligence. 12Int would do. The versatility from the MC paid for itself.

Multiclassing into Wizard requires at least a 13 INT.

[ATHATH]

But what about when your WIS is 20 and your STR is still 15?
Okay, but how long will it take for that gap to actually come into play? Assuming you're not passing up on Resilient (CON) (which would be a questionable decision if you're planning to melee it out on the front lines), it'll take 3 ASIs to get your WIS to 20. That's level 12 if you're not a variant human/custom lineage, level 8 if you are. By that point, the campaign's close to over, yeah? Even if it's not, by that point, a +3 to-hit/+4 damage on a single attack per round (that you won't be making on the first round of combat) is... not really something worth choosing an entire subclass for. You could grab a SCAG cantrip to make that more relevant... but that means that you're either dipping, spending an ASI, or choosing a race that will make you wait until level 12 to get that 20 WIS.


You're not wrong, it's better to boost STR to 20, but it also costs you at least two ASIs, whereas one ASI could get you Shillelagh. The downsides of Shillelagh might be worth it to get another feat.
God(s) no, boosting your STR to 20 just for a single attack per turn that you're only using when you have nothing better to do is a TERRIBLE idea. That's 2-3 ASIs down the drain! I'm saying it's not really worth investing in that one melee attack per turn at all, not that Shillelagh is the wrong way to invest in it if you're dead-set on making it better.

[ATHATH]

IMO, yo-yo healing is great when the best case scenario you mentioned happens. It's not so great when one of the scenarios I mentioned above happens.

Which is why you consider the initiative order before you cast Healing Word. If the enemy beatstick who knocked your friend down to 0 HP is going to move between your turn and your 0 HP friend's turn... don't cast Healing Word on them (or DO cast Healing Word on them if your DM is the type to have monsters try to finish off downed party members).


Preserve life is different because it actually heals substantially more than a healing word and other healing spells. It heals enough to actually keep an ally from dropping right back down to 0. This eliminates the risks mentioned above.
Just because you have Preserve Life doesn't mean that you shouldn't keep Healing Word around. As you yourself have said, they're different tools with different effects: Healing Word is for abusing yo-yo healing in situations where that's viable, while Preserve Life is for bringing an ally back with enough HP to not immediately get downed again. While the latter is generally a better option in most situations, Preserve Life is only usable 1/short rest, so Healing Word is still good for situations that don't warrant a usage of Preserve Life (i.e. there's only one enemy left and you can afford to keep using Healing Word every turn until the combat's over) or for when you don't have a usage of Preserve Life available.

[KorvinStarmast]

ATHATH: at low level, shillelagh is a magical attack so it bypasses resists and immunities. Handy and cheap, costs no spell slots. As level goes up, the point on "it doesn't scale well" is a valid one. If one has access to some of Tasha's option, one can swap out cantrips at 4 or 8 if shillelagh is no longer deemed to be necessary.

For the OP:
Support cleric vHuman Life Cleric with magic initiate Druid got me goodberry/Disciple of life synergy, the guidance cantrip and shillelagh on top of my other three cantrips, and nothing but appreciation from the party.

A fine support cleric.
(PS: turn undead is a great feature, but the ability to burst heal to party members at low or 0 HP and get them up to half has paid off time and again).

But if I ever do another one, I may go with telekinetic (wisdom) since I have found the push/pull to be useful on my paladin lately.

[Rashagar]

Have you considered Knowledge cleric for a bit of an alternative form of support?

I might be biased since it's one of my favourites, but my reasoning:
Base cleric provides most all you could want to fill the support role in combat, especially in a low lethality game.

Knowledge cleric would help you support the party in non-combat elements of the game by providing potential routes to solutions that your party otherwise may lack.

Grab expertise in the 2 knowledge skills your party is weakest in, your channel divinity can net you a further proficiency your party needs in a pinch, or can be used for detect thoughts/suggestion implanting.

Your domain spell list focuses on divination and crowd control, with Suggestion offering potential OOC solutions as well, which just helps complement and round out the cleric's standard selection of tools.

[Frogreaver]

Which is why you consider the initiative order before you cast Healing Word. If the enemy beatstick who knocked your friend down to 0 HP is going to move between your turn and your 0 HP friend's turn... don't cast Healing Word on them (or DO cast Healing Word on them if your DM is the type to have monsters try to finish off downed party members).

I think it probably depends on if the DM attacks downed party members. If he does then healing word will regularly be found inadequate. This is a huge point in favor of Preserve Life. But it is dependent on that style of game.

If the DM doesn't target downed PC's then the useful cases for preseve life drop a bit. However, even in this case it's still going to offer arguable benefits over healing word:


In the case initiative falls such that you can healing word the ally such that he gets his turn before any enemies go then preserve life still spares at least 1 spell slot and possibly more (at the action economy expense of a cantrip attack or less*).
In the case initiative falls such that enemies get to attack the ally before his turn, then preserve life provides much better insurance that he can make it to his turn. You also still save the spell 1 or more spell slots in this scenario.



Just because you have Preserve Life doesn't mean that you shouldn't keep Healing Word around. As you yourself have said, they're different tools with different effects: Healing Word is for abusing yo-yo healing in situations where that's viable, while Preserve Life is for bringing an ally back with enough HP to not immediately get downed again.

Early levels I would take healing word because 1 use of preserve life per short rest isn't enough. However, By the time you get 2-3 uses, it'd be pretty safe to drop healing word IMO. The opportunity cost of preparing a different spell probably weighs more in a less redundant spells favor.


While the latter is generally a better option in most situations, Preserve Life is only usable 1/short rest, so Healing Word is still good for situations that don't warrant a usage of Preserve Life (i.e. there's only one enemy left and you can afford to keep using Healing Word every turn until the combat's over) or for when you don't have a usage of Preserve Life available.

As I just noted, I fully agree with you for when you have 1/short rest of Preserve Life. 100% agree you should take healing word then. But I'd disagree about healing word being better while you still have that use of preserve life. Preserve Life can come back on a short rest. Healing word takes the slot when you use it (and as you note possibly multiple slots). Those slots can be used for other uses than healing. Preserve life cannot. For these reasons, the use case cited here just doesn't make sense to use Healing Word over Preserve life. And while I would bet you could fashion a scenario where Healing Word is better to use over Preserve Life while you still have uses of both, i'd also bet it's going to be the rare kind of scenario where the stars have to align.