Is Calm Emotions & Detect Thoughts worth keeping on Psionic Spell List (CoS Campaign)

[bsullivanp]

Hey everyone,

I'm playing a CoS campaign for the first time and decided to roll an Aberrant Mind Sorcerer. I love the flavor of the subclass but am really struggling with what to keep on my Psionic Spell List.

I am entering an existing group at level 6 as the primary arcane spellcaster (other party members are a rogue, cleric, druid/barbarian MC, and a Samurai fighter).

As of now, I am planning the following:

Level 1: Dissonant Whisper, Tasha's Hideous Laughter (from Arms of Hadar)
Level 2: Calm Emotions, Suggestion (from Detect Thoughts); considering adding Detect Thoughts back in on my Sorcerer spell list
Level 3: Hunger of Hadar, Sending
Level 4: Arcane Eye (from Evard's Black Tentacles), Summon Aberration
Level 5: Modify Memory (from Rary's Telepathic Bond), Telekinesis

My specific questions are these:
Is it worth keeping Calm Emotions at all? I have never done CoS but heard many things are immune to charm. So would only benefit be to temporarily remove charms on my own party? Is that WAY TOO niche to keep in CoS?
Is it worth keeping a spell slot for Detect Thoughts? Is burning a 2nd level spell slot worth reading surface memories with certainty vs. just doing an insight check?
Are there other spells I should be considering that I am not?

Thanks!

[tokek]

I don't want to spoiler too much but Calm Emotions is a very handy spell to have when party members might get charmed.

Very handy, if not crucial. Might avoid a TPK

I really like Detect Thoughts but I'm not sure its quite so crucial for CoS

[diplomancer]

I don't want to spoiler too much but Calm Emotions is a very handy spell to have when party members might get charmed.

Very handy, if not crucial. Might avoid a TPK

I really like Detect Thoughts but I'm not sure its quite so crucial for CoS

Or hordes of angry, superstitious peasants (which are very much a gothic horror trope). Specially, if you can cast it without them noticing it

[bsullivanp]

I don't want to spoiler too much but Calm Emotions is a very handy spell to have when party members might get charmed.

Very handy, if not crucial. Might avoid a TPK

I really like Detect Thoughts but I'm not sure its quite so crucial for CoS

Thanks for the advice. That makes sense.

Detect Thoughts feels like it would be a spell that SOUNDS great and flavorful for an Aberrant Mind Sorcerer, but worry it could be very underwhelming in practice. Plus, wouldn't it require me to almost pay a Metamagic tax (by taking Subtle) to get it's full usage? After all, me starting a Verbal/Somatic chant right in front of the person I'm questioning would be a dead giveaway. Otherwise, I'm asking another party member to do the questioning, while I hide and do Detect Thoughts, but since I'm the only Charisma caster in the party, that seems suboptimal too.

[Keravath]

Thanks for the advice. That makes sense.

Detect Thoughts feels like it would be a spell that SOUNDS great and flavorful for an Aberrant Mind Sorcerer, but worry it could be very underwhelming in practice. Plus, wouldn't it require me to almost pay a Metamagic tax (by taking Subtle) to get it's full usage? After all, me starting a Verbal/Somatic chant right in front of the person I'm questioning would be a dead giveaway. Otherwise, I'm asking another party member to do the questioning, while I hide and do Detect Thoughts, but since I'm the only Charisma caster in the party, that seems suboptimal too.

The level 6 ability lets you cast the psionic spells using sorcery points and no components. This makes them essentially the same as subtle so there is no extra metamagic required.

"If you cast the spell using sorcery points, it requires no verbal or somatic components, and it requires no material components, unless they are consumed by the spell."

[tokek]

Or hordes of angry, superstitious peasants (which are very much a gothic horror trope). Specially, if you can cast it without them noticing it

Which of course you can at the cost of two sorcery points and no spell slot.

Is very worth having in CoS.

[bsullivanp]

Which of course you can at the cost of two sorcery points and no spell slot.

Is very worth having in CoS.

That is true. I supposed I was thinking that something like Suggestion may play better on the Psionic spell list than Detect Thoughts, for the same reason you stated - a "discounted" subtle casting.

But I have been considering putting Detect Thoughts on my normal Sorcerer spell list (which is why I was thinking the Subtle Metamagic option - thinking I would want to cast it subtly but perhaps not as often as I would suggestion).

[da newt]

Just a friendly reminder (because I keep forgetting) - Calm Emotions only works on creatures of the humanoid type. It's bitten me a few times casting it on non-humanoids.

[bsullivanp]

Just a friendly reminder (because I keep forgetting) - Calm Emotions only works on creatures of the humanoid type. It's bitten me a few times casting it on non-humanoids.

Yes, understood. This was my main reason for questioning Calm Emotions. My understanding is that Calm Emotions could have two different uses:

1) To effect enemy hostility in either combat or social settings.
2) To temporarily nullify charm or frightened effects on MY OWN party during combat.

For the reason you stated, I would think that the first benefit of Calm Emotions may not be very helpful in CoS, leaving only the secondary benefit. So while that second benefit may be useful, feels very situational to eat up one of my precious spells known slots. But never having played CoS, I could certainly be wrong.

[Keravath]

Yes, understood. This was my main reason for questioning Calm Emotions. My understanding is that Calm Emotions could have two different uses:

1) To effect enemy hostility in either combat or social settings.
2) To temporarily nullify charm or frightened effects on MY OWN party during combat.

For the reason you stated, I would think that the first benefit of Calm Emotions may not be very helpful in CoS, leaving only the secondary benefit. So while that second benefit may be useful, feels very situational to eat up one of my precious spells known slots. But never having played CoS, I could certainly be wrong.

It may depend on whether you have a cleric in the party or someone else who could take Calm Emotions. You may only want one character with it and it is probably best on someone with a high wisdom save. As for usefulness, as you said it is situational. However, even if you haven't played CoS, you likely know the types of creatures and general tone. The question then becomes are charmed or frightened likely conditions that your party could encounter?

This may become less of an issue if you have a paladin in the party - they have aura of courage at level 10 (if you reach that level in CoS). A devotion paladin has aura of devotion at level 7 that provides immunity to charm. Both effects are for creatures within 10' of the paladin but if you have a devotion paladin in the party then Calm Emotions may be less of an issue.

[da newt]

or twilight sanctuary