Is there a point in detailing extinct races if they did not build dungeons?

[Scalenex]

So my fantasy setting had three ages of civilization, each time ended with a cataclysmic event that killed over 90% of all the people alive and reduced the survivors to barbarian refugees.

The gods of my world tried to help the survivors rebuild but they also created new races after each cataclysm.

Some races didn't survive the cataclysm. From a storytelling perspective, is it a waste of time to detail an extinct race or is there a story purpose in doing so.

[PhoenixPhyre]

So my fantasy setting had three ages of civilization, each time ended with a cataclysmic event that killed over 90% of all the people alive and reduced the survivors to barbarian refugees.

The gods of my world tried to help the survivors rebuild but they also created new races after each cataclysm.

Some races didn't survive the cataclysm. From a storytelling perspective, is it a waste of time to detail an extinct race or is there a story purpose in doing so.

If they left no traces, no legacy, then no point. At most a name and some basic description.

However, often knowing the side details informs or enriches the core. So maybe.

[TheStranger]

Like PhoenixPhyre said. No, but maybe yes. If there’s nothing remaining from a race, there’s not a lot of point in detailing something that will never be encountered.

But even if the race didn’t leave ruins, they might have interacted with neighbors who did. So maybe those neighbors left ruins with defenses or accommodations that are unique because of the lost race. Or maybe the survivors carry legends or superstitions that are inspired by the lost race. So it could add depth to the setting.

Is that amount of depth worth the effort in terms of how much work it is vs. how appreciated the detail is? Probably not, but if the worldbuilding itself is fun there’s no harm in it. And if you later decide that your lost race did leave some ruins (or a surviving community) after all, you have a starting point and don’t have to retcon anything to make the details work.

[Mechalich]

If a culture/race left no physical evidence of its existence behind, it's unlikely that anyone in the current world will be able to learn anything meaningful about them. This is a thing in real world history - there are numerous groups that are known only as references in the literature of other cultures but without physical archeological evidence we know essentially nothing about them and cannot be sure they existed at all.

Some caveats though. First, it's rare for a culture to leave no evidence of its existence at all. Even pastoralist cultures with no fixed abode and therefore no stone structures tend to leave behind religious monuments, burial mounds, and durable pieces of art. Second, a culture may have modified the physical environment and ecology of a region in a way that is retained for some time even after their extinction via canal-building, modification of the fire regime, salinization, or other mechanisms. Third, in a fantasy context, the length of living memory may be much greater than in the real world. The classic example, of course, is LotR, in which characters like Elrond and Galadriel personally recall events that happened thousands of years earlier, including extinct civilizations.

[Trask]

From how you've described these apocalypses, I should think that part of the implicit poignancy of such a tragic doomsday cycle would be all the countless lost civilizations and races that are truly gone forever. Only a mere handful survived in each case. For reference, Europe of just shy of 10% of the global population today. Still a goodly amount of cultures, more than you could ever need for a fantasy game, but so much is lost. I say embrace it, have the most ancient elves wax poetic about the unimaginable loss.

[brian 333]

From the cartouches on the Temple of Asverjan:

"The Blessed Donyevva taught the art of medicine to our priests, and thus healing for the Plague of Weeping Boils saved some few of us. Alas, the Donyevva were buried beneath waves of cinders when the White Mountain exploded. After the long winter ended with the coronation of the Twin Kings of Edruh, an expedition was sent to find then, but there were none left in this world. Thus passed the eldest people, the true Children of the Gods."

[oogaboogagoblin]

id say it depends most on the party, if its mostly players that ignore that type of information just to do stupid **** or are murderhobos then id say definitely not, if they are normal players id say do minimal details, but if its a serious campaign with overattentive players that notice every detail then having lore like that makes the world feel much more realistic. theres nothing more annoying then meaningless lore if you just wanna slaughter goblins, but theres nothing more fulfilling if you are really invested in the campaigns plot

[Lemmy]

It's worth keeping in mind that in a setting with actual deities, souls and magic... Even if a race left no traits and no survivors, I can still be brought back in some capacity, like through necromancy, golems shaped like said race or memories brought to life.

[sktarq]

when you say
didn't build dungeons =/= left no trace.

Did others who did change because of their presence (did block/attack/etc other groups who did....did they for example culturally influence another group causing a great divide that is carried to this day (perhaps a group of survivors imitated them/ransacked their stuff?)

Did they leave undead members??

Did they change magic advancement? (if so their style may pop up a lot is certain magic fields)

Did they leave any grand curses, blessings, or prophecies?

Any other large scale effects (eg: oh THEY are reason the Genies hate the material world creatures!, damn slavers!/they are why the realm of dreams is magically sealed etc)

Did they create/leave any types of monsters in the area? (eg "lost race" really liked lions, and manticores, catfolk, sphinxes of various types, wemics, and lammasu came from them and that is why they are so often found in "lost race" regions or eg 2 golems etc)

Did they leave a lot of magic weapons/loot that others would put in THEIR dungeons?
(can be combined with others above...perhaps a 2nd age culture really liked the ruins of a first age culture, found/emptied/built on top of all them and that's why you can't find any today...but the cultural influence is very apparent and the stuff they found in those ruins holds pride of place in both repurposed and 2nd age building projects...or perhaps they were nomads but raided others for captives-who they sacrificed to harvest magical soul energy to put into their magic items and the arms/armour they made this way are still some of the best ever made and those can be found in various places)

any of these would be a good reason to SKETCH them out. statues or undead would require a physical description but most wouldn't really. did they curses or prophecies may require an idea of how they thought about certain things so you have a lens to interpret how such things work (what did they consider important shows up in how things are worded/what triggers things etc) but may not even need a basic idea of it they were humanoid or not.

nothing like this you can think of applies? well ask how your players would ever hear of them then? a sentence of two here and there in how other ancient beings may reference them would be about all you need then.

[Beleriphon]

AS noted by others this can be relevant. The Egyptians traded extensively with a place they identified as Punt. They traveled both by land and sea to this place, but we have no idea where it actually was. We're pretty sure it was a real place, since it is identified by name over several hundred years worth of records, but beyond it existing and the Egyptians going there we know almost nothing about it.

[brian 333]

The elves are reclusive and avoid interfering with other races because in ancient times they caused a race to go extinct. It was their belated attempts to save the dying race that created the modern race of goblins from which sprang the elf-goblin hybrids now known as orcs.

This knowledge is secret, known only to the eldest elf-priests and preserved in the Royal Orb of the Elf Kingdom, which may only be touched or used by the true king/queen of the elves or the heir apparent to the throne.

Or

A race sacrificed itself to prevent the destruction of the world, and now serve as a martyr class of angels which spend eternity guarding the realm from the ancient, (unknown to modern races,) enemy. One who achieved the ability to venture to the celestial realms may meet one and learn about it's former lifetime.

[Sapphire Guard]

It basically depends on the details of the race, so it's up to you.

I don't know if you've read the Malazan Book of the Fallen, but it goes into a lot of historical time, with a lot past species and races of varying levels of extinction. Some vanish completely, some leave relics, some are undead and become major characters.

It's essentially up to you, nothing says it must be done or must not be done.

Do you know what each cataclysmic event was? That would determine what is left over each time.

[Bohandas]

They could have made other things than dungeons. Magic items, spell development, or even mundane things like books or artwork. Or they could have affected some surviving institution in some way

[Scalenex]

So far I have the Ibixians, the Lawful Neutral goat men of some D&D supplements as my only extinct mortal race. I did this mainly to add character to my gods.

I have nine deities, one per each old school alignment. The TN and NE deities spammed a lot of new creatures but most of the others only made one or two vanity races in their own image. For the LG god of blacksmithing and valor made dwarves.

During the cataclysms, the gods and goddesses could only save a small percentage of mortals. Most deities prioritized saving their chosen people, but the LN goddess, Khemra focused her efforts on efficiency saving the most mortals possible regardless of affiliation. She was willing to let her own chosen people fend for themselves for the greater good. The Ibixians were highly literate and they were able to bury some of their writing before they all died. Followers of Khemra still circulate copies of their writing, but Khemra's detractors like use them as a case study. "If a goddess isn't going to protect you from danger? Why worship them."


I do have a lot of dead cultures. Not the same as dead races/species. For instances, my world has four elf subcultures. At one point, there were a hundred elf cultures. I have a few extinct human cultures too, but there are plenty of living humans. But that is not quite the same as extinct species.

[brian 333]

The question, then, is one of utility. Has their existence impacted other cultures? If they left no relics or ruins, how do they play into the campaign your players will experience?

Background worldbuilding:

The elves are what they are today because of social influences of the past. This info may only ever be revealed to a character that studies elf culture, but it impacts the social and moral outlook of their civilization.

Adventure hooks:

The Marklar opened portals to escape a cataclysm, and if the adventurers could duplicate the feat they can gain access to the vast Marklar wonders spoken of in legends.

Reintroduction:

The Shimalayans cast an epic spell that cast them into the future. The sudden arrival of Mount Shimalaya on the Shimilayan Plateau crushed everything on the plateau, disrupting the balance of power. For the Shimalayans no time has passed. For everyone else who populated their former empire, the race from myth reappears, accompanied by the mass calamity of the death of everyone in a 900 square mile area
(Adventure hook: adventurers who entered a dungeon now have to climb through many miles of Shimalayan caverns to get out!)


So, in the end, how you intend to use the information is the important aspect of the question. Why do you need 100 dead elf cultures? Why do they matter today? How much worldbuilding do you really want to do for races that will never matter?

[Eldan]

I agree that it can just be some background color. You don't have to work out a lot, but just saying "Binding magic was invented by the Semirians, which are now extinct" is a fun little tidbit.

[Vahnavoi]

Depends on what they left behind. Really, that's what you should be detailing. Buildings, items, religion, literature, etc. cultural artifacts. Some may have become adopted or inhabited by the newer races and people, meaning they still have cultural impact despite no longer being around.

If nothing's left, then you have nothing to detail.