Wish Options

[RSP]

From a mechanical aspect, is using Wish to become Resistant to damage types not better than having to cast a lower level spell?

I get the versatility of the spell, but permanent Resistance is pretty great. If you could get three Resistances added on to your group’s PCs, then just swap out Wish for a different 9th level spell, I think you’ve got a net gain in character “power”.

In theory, if you could get 3 Resistances before losing the ability to cast Wish, that’s a pretty sweet outcome, and probably worth more than the omni-spell base effect. Obviously if you roll well, you could get more.

You still have that 9th level slot available each day.

Thoughts?

(Note: all of this assumes no Simulacrum shenanigans - I’ll admit daily Simulacrums is probably more powerful than getting multiple, permanent Resistances).

[Amnestic]

Being able to cast any spell of 8th or lower, as an action, and ignore material components is unparalleled versatility.

It's a plane shift anywhere. Resurrection on demand. Glyphs of Warding as far as the eye can see. Symbols that cover every inch of your sanctum, which you probably also made with magic. Clones galore. Even without any wish-chain shenanigans, just being able to get a single Simulacrum on its own at no cost is valuable - and they're imminently replaceable.

Getting three resistances on your party permanently is pretty nice. It's not nicer than being able to cast every spell other than the 9th level ones.

[RSP]

Being able to cast any spell of 8th or lower, as an action, and ignore material components is unparalleled versatility.

It's a plane shift anywhere. Resurrection on demand. Glyphs of Warding as far as the eye can see. Symbols that cover every inch of your sanctum, which you probably also made with magic. Clones galore. Even without any wish-chain shenanigans, just being able to get a single Simulacrum on its own at no cost is valuable - and they're imminently replaceable.

Getting three resistances on your party permanently is pretty nice. It's not nicer than being able to cast every spell other than the 9th level ones.

Again, excepting Simulacrum shenanigans (which I include daily Simulacrums at no cost).

Those castings each come at the opportunity cost of your only 9th level slot, though.

Particularly when talking about a Wizard, with the option to cast all those spells anyway (excepting Res), is a 1x/day <9th better than Resistance to S, B, P and a different 9th level spell?

Sorc can certainly make the argument that Wish fills in for their lack of spell list and spells known; not so much on a Wizard.

[PhantomSoul]

Again, excepting Simulacrum shenanigans (which I include daily Simulacrums at no cost).

Those castings each come at the opportunity cost of your only 9th level slot, though.

Particularly when talking about a Wizard, with the option to cast all those spells anyway (excepting Res), is a 1x/day <9th better than Resistance to S, B, P and a different 9th level spell?

Sorc can certainly make the argument that Wish fills in for their lack of spell list and spells known; not so much on a Wizard.

Having playing wizards, you can never get enough toys: there are spells not on your list AND there are spells you just can't prepare. Wish is every spell in a pinch -- I'll take that over a few resistances any day, and if there's a resistance I need in a pinch, well, Wish is probably still going to have me covered (albeit potentially at the cost of concentration and action economy, but usually with bonuses).

[Amnestic]

Yes, they come at the cost of your only 9th level spell slot. That was never in question. They also save you a lot, and you're not picking just one. You're picking all of them, because you're not going to be using it to make a free Clone or Symbol or what have you on an 'adventuring' day when you might need to blow someone up. You're going to be using it on an off day. Getting a free Simulacrum isn't shenanigans, it's literally how the spell works, but even if you take Simulacrum off the table there's plenty to make use of.

Other things that you can do are things like Hallow, Awaken, Find Greater Steed. Things that you can never do again once Wish is gone, all for the sake of reducing some damage against a damage type that might not even be used by your enemies of the day.

[RSP]

Having playing wizards, you can never get enough toys: there are spells not on your list AND there are spells you just can't prepare. Wish is every spell in a pinch -- I'll take that over a few resistances any day, and if there's a resistance I need in a pinch, well, Wish is probably still going to have me covered (albeit potentially at the cost of concentration and action economy, but usually with bonuses).

I don’t know: Wizards are already the most versatile class. Every non-Wish getting class is fine progressing without it.

If at level 17, Wizards got free Resistance to B, S, P (or whatever the 3 best resistances are: just picking these as they would probably help the front liners best) for the entire party, along with whatever other 9th level spells; that’s a pretty good buff.

[LudicSavant]

From a mechanical aspect, is using Wish to become Resistant to damage types not better than having to cast a lower level spell?

I get the versatility of the spell, but permanent Resistance is pretty great. If you could get three Resistances added on to your group’s PCs, then just swap out Wish for a different 9th level spell, I think you’ve got a net gain in character “power”.

In theory, if you could get 3 Resistances before losing the ability to cast Wish, that’s a pretty sweet outcome, and probably worth more than the omni-spell base effect. Obviously if you roll well, you could get more.

You still have that 9th level slot available each day.

Thoughts?

(Note: all of this assumes no Simulacrum shenanigans - I’ll admit daily Simulacrums is probably more powerful than getting multiple, permanent Resistances).

That's not a bad idea. Just exchange it for a permanent benefit and then use the slot for Meteor Swarm or some other Nice Thing.

I'm not sure it's necessarily better than keeping Wish, but it's certainly an interesting option, depending on the situation.

So is just using it twice, just in case.

[diplomancer]

So is just using it twice, just in case.

I didn't get that part, what do you mean?

[LudicSavant]

I didn't get that part, what do you mean?

I should have phrased this better.

I mean that it's possible to just stop after getting X permanent resistances for the party, and still have the spell. Not necessarily two times, since there's not actually a fixed number of times you can try the spell (just a 33% chance each time of losing the capability).

[Pildion]

From a mechanical aspect, is using Wish to become Resistant to damage types not better than having to cast a lower level spell?

I get the versatility of the spell, but permanent Resistance is pretty great. If you could get three Resistances added on to your group’s PCs, then just swap out Wish for a different 9th level spell, I think you’ve got a net gain in character “power”.

In theory, if you could get 3 Resistances before losing the ability to cast Wish, that’s a pretty sweet outcome, and probably worth more than the omni-spell base effect. Obviously if you roll well, you could get more.

You still have that 9th level slot available each day.

Thoughts?

(Note: all of this assumes no Simulacrum shenanigans - I’ll admit daily Simulacrums is probably more powerful than getting multiple, permanent Resistances).

I would want to be able to cast any 8th lvl or lower spell as an action, free of any material costs more then 3 resistances.

[diplomancer]

I should have phrased this better.

I mean that it's possible to just stop after getting X permanent resistances for the party, and still have the spell. Not necessarily two times, since there's not actually a fixed number of times you can try the spell (just a 33% chance each time of losing the capability).

Ah, ok. It was a weird way to put it, since the odds are independent and not cumulative. I suppose if you're doing that strategy, you will want to go at least for the 3 B/P/S resistances, if you can manage it.


I would want to be able to cast any 8th lvl or lower spell as an action, free of any material costs more then 3 resistances.

As OP has pointed out, this is not the correct comparison. The correct comparison is "any 8th lvl or lower spell as an action, free of any material costs" vs "one particular 9th level spell, plus 3 resistances".

I'm not sure it's worth it, but I'm notoriously risk-averse. I'm still inclined to keep regular Wish, and let the "dangerous" wishes be last resources, but I do see OP's point.

[LudicSavant]

Ah, ok. It was a weird way to put it, since the odds are independent and not cumulative. I suppose if you're doing that strategy, you will want to go at least for the 3 B/P/S resistances, if you can manage it.

It becomes especially easy to manage if you have multiple casters in the party.

You get BPS Resistance (essentially perma-rage without the disadvantages) for the whole party from Wish. Psychic immunity from Mind Blank. Resistance to most elements from Absorb Elements. Immunity to poison from Heroes' Feast (sure, it costs money, but this is tier 4 we're talkin').

And just hold Meteor Swarm or something in your 9th slot.

[RSP]

I should have phrased this better.

I mean that it's possible to just stop after getting X permanent resistances for the party, and still have the spell. Not necessarily two times, since there's not actually a fixed number of times you can try the spell (just a 33% chance each time of losing the capability).

Yeah, this goes both ways, to an extent.

You could also spend a week or two of downtime getting your Find Greater Steed, Forbiddance-ing your home, etc, then trying for the Resistances.

Obviously, those can be undone, but getting them initially before risking Wish, is an option.

As you suggest, nothing stops the Wish caster from stopping when they’re ahead (if able): certainly there’s a point of diminishing returns, as S, B, P, and Fire Resistance, are probably worth more than Electricity or Radiant Resistance, in most cases.