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Catullus64
2022-02-24, 06:45 PM
Making a final encounter for a new 3rd-level adventure, for a party of indeterminate size. These are three priests, each of whom manifests the power of one aspect of the goblins' triune deity, the names of which are roughly translated to Common as The Sneak, The Spook, and The Bully. My idea is for the three priests to have a shared spellcasting mechanic, akin to but not identical to the hag coven system.

The three priests have similar ability scores, the only key difference being their Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma. Each one has a 14 in one of these scores. They each have the same 16 AC and 18 HP, the usual Nimble Escape feature for Goblins, and various skills and save proficiencies appropriate to their aspect.

All three priests share the same spell slots: 4 1st-level slots, 3 2nd-level slots, and 2 3rd-level slots. They also share the same initiative count. They have their own actions & movement. 1 Priest alone can cast a cantrip or a 1st-level spell, but only if 2 Priests cast using their actions together can they cast one 2nd-level spell, and only with all three priests can they cast a 3rd-level spell. The DC and spell attack bonuses scale with the number of priests casting: DC 12/+4 for one priest, DC 14/+6 for two, and DC 16/+8 for all three. They can treat any participating priest as the caster of the spell for the purposes of line of sight, position, and Concentration.

Each priest has his own spell list, and those spells can only be cast if said priest is involved in the casting.

Priest of the Sneak: Minor Illusion, Charm Person, Mirror Image, Enemies Abound
Priest of the Spook: Chill Touch, Hex, Ray of Enfeeblement, Slow
Priest of the Bully: Booming Blade, Thunderwave, Shatter, Thunder Step

My intention is that by default, they are accompanied by 2 Hobgoblins and a number of regular Goblins = the number of PCs. It's meant to be a pretty deadly encounter on its face, but there are opportunities throughout the dungeon to make it easier, including: discovering a tome that explains how the Priests' magic works and what kind of spells each has, obtaining a strong magic ring & potion that the goblins have hidden in their fortress, freeing prisoners that can be persuaded to help fight, finding a secret passage that lets the PCs get the drop on them, and a chance to lure away the regular goblins. Does this seem like fun? Any particular ways you would tweak it?

JellyPooga
2022-02-24, 07:04 PM
Whilst I can appreciate the fun (and work) of designing this encounter conceptually, you really have to ask yourself the important question of how all this added complexity is going to:
A) Play out at the table?
B) Differ, functionally, from something simpler?
C) Appear to your players?

In short, are you just creating work for yourself that your players won't even realise unless you go out of your way to tell them about it (i.e. they find this book of yours explaining it all)? Could the same or a similar end result be achieved with three entirely independent NPC's? What is the benefit you're looking for?

Catullus64
2022-02-24, 08:37 PM
Whilst I can appreciate the fun (and work) of designing this encounter conceptually, you really have to ask yourself the important question of how all this added complexity is going to:
A) Play out at the table?
B) Differ, functionally, from something simpler?
C) Appear to your players?

In short, are you just creating work for yourself that your players won't even realise unless you go out of your way to tell them about it (i.e. they find this book of yours explaining it all)? Could the same or a similar end result be achieved with three entirely independent NPC's? What is the benefit you're looking for?

Aside from the fact that you pointed out that designing encounters like this is fun in itself, I also want encounters that are fun for me as the DM to "play." I mainly just want to see if I've accomplished that without accidentally making something unfun for actual players, hence the soliciting of advice. I also just like the theme of collaborative spellcasting.

Sorinth
2022-02-25, 06:15 AM
I would think they should be differentiated a little more then just spellcasting stat and spell list. I think you'd want to give each one to have a unique ability linked to how they plan on fighting which the players can learn about and maybe think of ways to counter.

For the Sneak I would give them a Sneak Attack die and play them as that melee rogue where they jump in and out of melee range looking for that SA damage. For the spell list I'd switch out Mirror Image for either Blur or Invisibility as well since MI is annoying to play against. For a unique ability I'd very tempted to give them the Monk's Shadow Step ability, probably limited number of uses (Maybe cost a 1st level spell slot). If the party learn about it then they can plan to light up the area and prevent the teleportation which will help them feel smart.

For the Brute, I would give them either extra AC and HP. I imagine them as your melee fighter who has a slight warlord like vibe. I'd probably straight up take Krenko's stats from the Ravinca book, possibly replacing the extra attack with allowing a goblin within 5ft to use their reaction to make an attack. The Redirect Attack is both fun, thematic for a goblin bully and the players learning about these abilities/tactics get them thinking about how to isolate the Brute from the rest of goblins which counters the abilities. For the spell list I'd lean more into being a bully rather then the Thunder vibe, so Vicious Mockery, Command, Enlarge/Reduce, and I guess keep Thunder Step, though I imagine less spellcasting and more attacking anyways.

For the Spook, I'd probably go with Cause Fear over Hex, and maybe Phantasmal Force over Ray of Enfeeblement depending how you/your group enjoy illusions. Dissonant Whispers would also be thematic but maybe a bit on the strong side. For unique ability I'd give them something like Form of Dread just without the temp HP. In terms of style I'd have them be the classic coward, so they hang in the back if someone gets close they Nimble Escape to get away, and then try to cause the frighten condition to prevent the person from following. Knowing this the players will have to figure out a way to limit the movement/corner the Spook.


I'm not sure I would bother with having higher DCs when there are more casters though. Enemies Abound and Slow are strong spells and throwing a DC 16 at a 3rd level party seems rough.

Burley
2022-02-25, 09:13 AM
I love this and I was thinking yesterday of a similar concept, though it was a cult leader with two subordinates, each of the three having a magical expertise.

The Sneak, I think, you could use for more than the final encounter. Maybe the adventurers can find a rough map, but there's a hallway on the map that's been illusion'd over. The point isn't to hide the hallway as much as to show the party that illusions are a thing here. Then, let the Sneak be behind an illusion during the final encounter. Maybe (instead of Charm Person) give them the Sleep spell, which is used against low-HP goblins all the time and turn-around is fair play. The Sneak can also drop a healing word or two from illusory safety. They're a Sneak, not an assassin. Let them stay sneaky.

Also, I notice that the Bully (I keep wanting to call it the Brute) has all these Thunder spells. I miiiiiight suggest tweaking how things work a bit and have them be more akin to spell-like abilities that function as the spell but aren't spells. I know that seems silly, but I imagine the Brute as a chosen Hobgoblin whose big crashies deal extra sonic damage, but that damage is negated is areas of Silence. The Brute could still use the teleport of Thunder Step, but it doesn't do the extra damage. (Silence just trivializes a caster encounter and, if you've got a Bard or Cleric in the party, they could have this spell.)

The Spook is the interesting one. The PCs would most likely identify the weaker, debuffing Spook and try to take it down quickly. You'll want them situated behind your nameless grunts and give them some sort of trap they can trigger or hide behind. Could be a pit trap they skooch around, or the classic two-logs-that-smash-the-target-from-both-sides. If the Spook ever gets [frightened] or heavily threatened, maybe it panics and runs behind the Sneak's illusion to grab a potion or use the escape hatch. (I'm gonna think on the Spook some more.)
Edit: Give the Spook Hold Person, but use it REALLY early, like round 1 of the fight. It can be a tall hurdle at the start of combat or a guillotine toward the middle.

I like the idea of clueing the party into the tri-caster nature of the clerics. That's the exact reason I'd want the Sneak to be hidden: to make the PCs feel like they'll not have to deal with the stronger spells, though a party of 3rd level adventurers can get TPK'd by 3rd level spells really easily, so, be judicious with those. It could be Major Image to fill the encounter room with illusory walls and cover, or Hypnotic Pattern to cover an escape. Or, the Spook could Fear the party into the Bully's big crashies.